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Author Topic: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3  (Read 2568 times)

Cmdr_King

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RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« on: January 13, 2014, 07:23:48 AM »
Godlike

Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga)
Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire)
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete)

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI)
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV)
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4)
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Regal Bryant (Tales of Symphonia)
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series)

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)
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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 07:45:41 AM »
Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire)
Fire nulling, healing, MBlock, & Safe vs. whatever Zog's backup is after Char.  Celes can only lose this if she runs out of MP or something.

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI)
Mog blocks POIZN at the cost of some speed and mocks the physical damage...  but also fails at killing Sinspawn's head remotely quickly from the stat topic's claimed tankiness, and while the head & body are spamming damage the odds of missing healing for 3 turns in a row or something are still pretty notable.  Mog uh 8HKOs the Head or something based off the stat topics with Wind Slashes, so that's a decent amount of time to fail to Sunbathe for too long.  Alas.

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross)
Checking, I think Karsh deals .66 PCHP damage if he unloads right away, to Aht's .67 PDur.  So...  Karsh might barely miss the OHKO, but if you give any credit to Karsh doing an FF13-like "spam a weak attack at hitting 1 Stamina" to finish the job and get a speedier but suckier 2nd turn, he might still win before Aht's 2nd turn.  Let's assume Aht gets two turns - do Traps OHKO?  Karsh has 1.13 PCHP and mildly below average MDef, Aht deals 1.10 PCHP vs. the 1-turn average and 1.01 PCHP vs. the 3 turn average.  Yeah no.  These are both pretty strong Middles.
EDIT: Or Push Assault -> Heal -> win on doubles hype?!  Well then.
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Regal Bryant (Tales of Symphonia)
Checking the stat topic...  yeah PC Regal can get uber Fire Resist, and even True Historica Stocke isn't winning this when Regal's Healing outpaces.  Stocke can hype, uh, Push Assault -> don't let Regal move forward despite being from an ARPG -> hit Dead Fencer before Regal Overlimits?!  Yeah, even if allowed, I suspect Regal would OL first anyway.
EDIT: Or Random can antihype ToS OLs as somehow slower to build than RH mana gauge.  Such a bizarre match.
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series)
Uhhhh.

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
oh boy I detect more Nina MDef hype coming in this fail-off.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3)
Attack -> Accelerated Attack for the 2HKO before Dancer can even win off status, I think.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 10:38:37 PM by SnowFire »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 12:11:30 PM »
Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga) - EDIT: Forgot the debuffs! Yeah, Sukunda alone probably makes Exdeath suck, let alone the rest. He really wishes he could use Dispel freely (though it probably wouldn't matter, it doesn't dispel negative effects in FF5, does it?).
Celes Chere (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire) - Zog's magic gets brutally walled and even Cure 1 can manage his physicals fairly hands-off once Safe is in play.
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) - Repeat operation Claude Kenni.
Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete) - Maybe I should stop voting on EBO and attempt playing EBC.

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI) - Well, Mog kinda needs to block Poison here. To make matters worse, he doesn't like the lightning magic much.
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV) - BoF4 can't block Petrify. Game, set, match. I guess I'll tiebreak for SD3 mechanics :psyduck: today.
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4) - First actual test of Rikku's votesplit in the last couple seasons. Tarucharged God Hand OHKOs.
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) - The way I take VP damage, Lucian barely misses the OHKO (by like 6%) and that's kinda that. Momo sleeps then piles up the million buffing game. Not factoring in GR Lenneth leads to an easy OHKO, though.

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross) - Nope.
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - Thus ends Lilianne Valendorf's reign of terror.
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series) - Revenge Earth is faster than Bart. That's pretty much it.

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile) - :vpmage:
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III) - EDIT: WAIT, actually undersold Piccolo damage, he does 78% PC HP with a single Furious Blow. Neeeeeeeeeeeeevermind, and if Nina's mdur is indeed 1.16, this is kind of a slaughter.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3) - Congrats on handling Cotton, Dancer. Now meet an actually dangerous Light.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) - Wow, Aguro isn't even game-best pdef? Amazing. REGARDLESS, under my numbers, Cinnamon -should- 4HKO Aguro with four Iron Maiden thwacks (don't remember L1 defenses being terribly relevant and the curve is actually kinda tight - more importantly, he shouldn't be above 1.38 pdur. Heck, if Meeple's correct about L1 mechanics, he's not even past the 1.2x PC HP mark), he misses the 3HKO by a hair when she's under Hyper Mode -and- he also misses a 2HKO normally. So, even if she doesn't straight outslug his ass, she actually can afford to heal once and finish off her procedures juuuuuuust as her HM ends. This is entirely discounting how her attached debuffs might tilt things in her favor a bit further (losing some speed even once, for instance, could bring her to doubling Aguro, who avoids the 5-4 by the skin of his teeth). Feels fairly hands off, though I may be mistaken.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 05:32:17 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

superaielman

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 02:06:03 PM »

Godlike

Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga)- Isn't a stupid fucking tree.
Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire)- Unimpressed with Zog against any kind of fire defense.
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)- No DSC.
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete)- Don't bother snow, Lunar 2's not worth playing twice. It was barely worth playing once.

Heavy

Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV)
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4)- I may revisit this later, but for now my kneejerk of 'punt Use' remains strong.
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)- Not inclined to give Lucian any DL calls in his favor.

Middle

Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series)- Abstain, need to see if Bart's status can do anything.

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3)- Jet actually competent at light.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vsAguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- Kneejerk.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 05:01:47 PM »
Godlike

Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga): Zombie Breath does indeed OHKO the Tentacles, but there are two problems. Heat will be using Makanda + Tentacle summon every turn, which weakens Zombie Breath each time (once Makanda is maxed, he uses the attack or acc debuffer instead). Second, Zombie Breath is really random so sometimes it will fail to kill the tentacles, and this gets increasingly common as Makanda kicks in, and will be about a coinflip after 3 uses. Even if Exdeath does kill the tentacles on a turn he doubles, he... doesn't actually have lightning above half HP. So all he'll be able to do is throw in some weak damage. By the time Heat starts doing damage to him all of Exdeath's stats will completely suck Exdeath seems unlikely to get the timely double he needs.
Celes Chere (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire): Gut says that a Zog who is reduced to physicals against Safe/Haste/Cure Celes is really bad (slow 8HKO vs. fast 4HKO healing). In theory she might run out of MP? Probably not though.
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII): Flying for the win part 2.
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete): Boom.

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI): Don't... think I respect Mog enough for this? Maybe. The lightning magic does suck.
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV): Scias does less damage than Stefan sooooo
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4): Yay Persona 4!
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile): I am a strong proponent of "factor in Lenneth, but assume she kills turn 1 rather than using her dumb overkill which is irrelevant", it's a nice compromise between the other two averages. Anyway Lucian does 86% with it, Momo has 0.78 pdur. Bye.

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross)
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): I'm rarely confident about Lily in the DL, but surely she's out of her league here. Ayame even blocks slow.
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series): Bart has some semblance of a case here since Tengaar has only two shots of magic damage and he can half her damage then buff to physical immunity. But... the problem is that he HAS to attack her first turn to lower her damage, so she responds by physicalling him, then using Revenge Earth to wall off future offence. Bart can buff all he wants now but he can't hurt her any more, and he can't heal, and one Tengaar physical + one Earthquake against shitty Bart mdur should be fatal by any S2 average. (For me, I suspect she doesn't even need the physical.)

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile): Sound-based magic > yelling a lot.
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III): Not sure how Nina's 1.16 mdur is supposed to let her tank this.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3): Yep.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 05:16:21 PM »
Didn't you mention before that Labby failed to 3HKO her? That'd require at least above 1.5x mdur by any measure. If she's indeed 1.16, though, yeah, she doesn't really have a chance.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 05:19:53 PM »
If I did that was a horrible typo, I meant Labby failed to 2HKO her (which was enough).

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 06:03:25 PM »
Yeah, I'd imagine so. Anyhow, editted fights accordingly.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 07:14:00 PM »
Godlike
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete) - Maybe you should Snow.

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI) - Sure.
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV)
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) - Easy OHKO.

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross) - The numbers I ran had Karsh doing 0.673ish on a chain + L5, sooooooo.
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Regal Bryant (Tales of Symphonia) - Yeah Stocke doesn't really like Fire res much. e: Or Regal could be worse than I remembered so there's no real reason deadfencerohko shouldn't work, lack of respect for ToS overlimit goes here.
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - Ow.
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series) - Revenge Earth lol.

Light

Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III) - Yikes.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3) - Dancer's reign of terror ends here.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 05:34:00 PM by Random Consonant »

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 07:37:30 PM »
Godlike

Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga)- Yay elfmaths.
Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire)
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)- Well, Liza almost certainly OHKOs him!  Don't particularly think she's faster.
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete)

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI)
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV)- No vote.  Grumpyface.
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4)- I should PROBABLY go over a list of steals and see what I do and don't allow but unless petrify grenades make the cut not a whole lot Rikku can do here.
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)- Yeah not super inclined to hold the whole cast against NV3.

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Regal Bryant (Tales of Symphonia)
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series)

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)- Piccolo: OHKO or die.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3)- Jet Enduro: the hero Light deserves.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- No vote.
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Nephrite

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 11:35:32 PM »
Godlike

Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga)
Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire)
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) - Uh, I think she loses even with DSC...?
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete) - Fate Storm as ID to me.

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI)
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV)
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4)
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross)
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Regal Bryant (Tales of Symphonia)
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series) - Wasn't Revenge Earth just one shot and it was consumed after that? Or was it permanent?

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)

SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2014, 11:38:23 PM »
Looking at CK's vote, I boggled a bit as to if Stocke possibly has an argument assuming you don't hype the Push Assault -> stall strat (which, uh, no vs. an ARPG char)...  and this might actually be closer than I thought?

Regal has 1.06 PCHP and 45% healing and .42 PCHP damage.  He's never going to fear Stocke's beatdown damage ever, the only thing that scares him is Dead Fencer.

Stocke has 1.47 durability and 29% healing, but 29% healing  = .42 PCHP.  Or in other words, Stocke healing stays afloat vs. Regal's best combos without need for Push Assault.  So - Stocke can use Double Slash 3 times, then spam healing forever, and hope to hit Dead Fencer before Regal OL's.  (or, since he can survive a bit vs. ToS OL, maybe skip the Double Slashes at risk of a slower Dead Fencer?  I doubt it, though.)

In Pyro's topic, he says " Each hit a PC racks up seems to be worth 2% of the gauge, while taking damage is something similar."  Does anyone know if this is true - e.g. multi-hit enemy attacks build the gauge faster?  If so, then there's a vague spoiler possibility, while ToS OLs normally come faster than the extremely slow RH gauge building, RH gague building just might outrace if Regal is unloading multihit combos repeatedly.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 12:18:59 AM »
To Neph: Revenge Earth lasts three turns after it was cast. Canopy Defense is the one that's one shot that lasts until a spell is cast against it.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 01:06:41 AM »
Aha, that's it. Got it.

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 01:20:34 AM »
What is to stop Scias from applying Sleep to Angela and winning via a Focused Auto-crit?

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2014, 01:24:40 AM »
1. Focus is an item-cast through an armour most don't see as legal (rare steal from superboss no thanks)
2. Once Angela starts charging a spell she won't feel the effect of status until the spell resolves. YMMV with how much you respect this, but I have trouble not giving it credit against someone in Scias' "barely above average" area for speed at the very least.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2014, 01:33:49 AM »
Looking at CK's vote, I boggled a bit as to if Stocke possibly has an argument assuming you don't hype the Push Assault -> stall strat (which, uh, no vs. an ARPG char)...  and this might actually be closer than I thought?

Regal has 1.06 PCHP and 45% healing and .42 PCHP damage.  He's never going to fear Stocke's beatdown damage ever, the only thing that scares him is Dead Fencer.

Stocke has 1.47 durability and 29% healing, but 29% healing  = .42 PCHP.  Or in other words, Stocke healing stays afloat vs. Regal's best combos without need for Push Assault.  So - Stocke can use Double Slash 3 times, then spam healing forever, and hope to hit Dead Fencer before Regal OL's.  (or, since he can survive a bit vs. ToS OL, maybe skip the Double Slashes at risk of a slower Dead Fencer?  I doubt it, though.)

In Pyro's topic, he says " Each hit a PC racks up seems to be worth 2% of the gauge, while taking damage is something similar."  Does anyone know if this is true - e.g. multi-hit enemy attacks build the gauge faster?  If so, then there's a vague spoiler possibility, while ToS OLs normally come faster than the extremely slow RH gauge building, RH gague building just might outrace if Regal is unloading multihit combos repeatedly.

Oh, I think that Stocke may beat Regal by stalling...because Regal' best combo costs a whopping 70! TP. For all that I'm sure that Regal has cheaper, less damaging combos, none of combos are going to be cheap. I think that before any limit happens, there's a real chance that Regal just will lack MP.

Granted, I don't remember ToS very well, but I'm guessing moves in combos did less damage? Because the combos listed in the last damage average don't match adding those combos manually. Don't see any notes in the topic though.
...into the nightfall.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 01:39:43 AM »
Also, for Angela vs Scias, Angela's spell activates at 3.75 Seconds, which is arguably slow on turn 2 anyways. He may just 2HKO first.
...into the nightfall.

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 02:52:18 AM »
I have no idea what's up with the ToS topic, but I don't think "Regal runs out of TP" is really a concern here regardless.  That would matter more if Regal's damage outpaced Stocke's slightly and Regal wanted to see if he could overwhelm Stocke's healing before running out of TP, but that strategy already doesn't work.  If Regal needs an OL to win, he'll just spam basic TP-generating attacks and occasionally pause for cheap healing paid for by his attacking.  Once he OLs, the damage boost should be enough to overwhelm Stocke's healing...  or at least the finisher at the end, if nothing else.  So this really is a straight-up race between OL & Dead Fencer.  Kinda cool that these two limits are actually DL relevant for once when they usually never are.

So the question remains - can anyone confirm if multi-hit enemy combos fuel the RH gauge faster?  Suppose I should just go check myself.

Pyro

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 12:06:41 PM »
Godlike

Exdeath (Final Fantasy V) vs Heat (Digital Devil Saga)
Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) vs Zog (Breath of Fire): Minerva. His Dragon Breath isn't cutting it I don't think!
Liza (SaGa Frontier) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII): Physical (Paralysis) or Fly?
Isolde (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis) vs Zophar (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete): I am confident Zophar takes this without the Nuke. Multipart boss hype.

Heavy

Sinspawn Gui (Final Fantasy X) vs Mog (Final Fantasy VI): Mog isn't Gale/Sunbathing is way to a win here.
Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3) vs Scias (Breath of Fire IV): Even if Scias resists the status by 50%, Angela will still win more often than not Because He needs to hit with his status And she needs to miss with hers... Her chances of winning via status are thus higher than his.
Rikku (Final Fantasy X) vs Chie Satonaka (Persona 4): Petrification works. Petrify Grenades were something I actively used with Rikku a fair bit in my last FFX playthrough, too.
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile): OHKO? I kind of want to know if there is a more equitable approach to weapons for the VP cast. That might actually *help* Lucian though...

Middle

Aht (Radiant Historia) vs Karsh (Chrono Cross): Traps don't mean squat when you are OHKOd. Aht can probably delay it by a turn by Push Assaulting though! But uh... That really is just delaying the inevitable... I think... Unless Aht can open with Push Assault and win via Healing/double-turning? Is that viable?
Stocke (Radiant Historia) vs Regal Bryant (Tales of Symphonia): Push Assault and Dead Fencer, healing. Regal's TP-generation sucks arse because he is from ToS and not ToX. If he isn't expending TP he isn't doing appreciable damage, and Stocke can go on the offense which generates more limit gauge. Not letting Regal Move+Attack on the RH grid or some such. No more than I let him like violate FF6 row or something because he is from an ARPG.
Ayame (Suikoden III) vs Lilianne Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Bartholomew Fatima (Xenogears) vs Tengaar (Suikoden Series)

Light

Luke fon Fabre (Tales of the Abyss) vs Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nina (Suikoden II) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Jet Enduro (Wild ARMs 3)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 12:51:39 PM »
Momo (Breath of Fire III) vs Lucian (Valkyrie Profile): OHKO? I kind of want to know if there is a more equitable approach to weapons for the VP cast. That might actually *help* Lucian though...

It's kinda hard to find a nice balance in VP1 weaponry because the distribution is so lopsided in-game. Sword users get multiple options (Levantine, Valkyrie Favor, Gram - and you could actually -potentially- get more than a single Gram) while archers get horrifically boned (Berserker Bow and Elven Bow aren't too great and one-per-playthrough). Lancers get by with Crimson Edge and VP mages will suck in the DL no matter what (weapons definitely -aren't- their problem here). Your kneejerk is right, of course, since Lucian with a high-powered weapon running off -those- mults wrecks shit.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 01:17:23 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 04:29:40 PM »
Also it is a bit strange to hold the A-ending only Glance Reviver against Lucian. Maybe he should be scaled as a temp (A ending) or held to a B ending average.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 04:36:24 PM »
Lucian scaling is a bit strange regardless. I'm generally not too fond of handing out multiple averages as is, but whatever mileage makes it work for you - for whatever it's worth, I'd probably hold him to a B ending average if I subscribed to an alternate interp, mostly because it bypasses a theoretical temp scaling discussion entirely.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 07:35:34 PM »
Pyro: Interesting how the RH characters have arguments to steal matches they have no right to win, but re Aht vs. Karsh..  actually, totally forgot about Push Assault hax here.  Even if you let CC characters move, just spamming Push Assault forever + damage on doubles would defeat that strat, so Karsh is stuck in the back row.  Anyway, from your own stat topic, Aht has 180 MP = 18 shots of full healing, which is really more like 14 shots due to like 4HKOing with Cross Star or thereabouts.  So Aht would need to 4:3 on turns or thereabouts, which is not totally unreasonable depending on how much you care about Karsh's mildly below average Stamina.  However!  If non-Sky Drops accessories are allowed, Aht can equip Arbor Rings for HP+60/MP+40 *each*.  So it'd be more like 30 shots of full healing if Aht grabs 3x Arbor Rings, and while I'm not entirely sure how much allowing accessories would change the stat topic, I doubt it would be enough to stop her, and she might win without them depending on RH/CC speed hype.  So... vote changed, Aht somehow takes this after all.

For Regal, eh, ARPG characters often have positioning-based strats that don't translate to the DL, and the DL often assumes they just facetank everything rather than use dodges/blocks that they do in-game.  For such an exact analogue, I'd certainly give them some leeway.  That said, allowing or disallowing Push Assault on Regal doesn't change the calculus much since as noted Regal can't smash through Stocke's healing without OL anyway.

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Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 08:27:58 PM »
If you allow accessories -and- RH speed is so potent that Aht is close to a 4:3 against average (pretty sure this isn't the case...) then the entire cast would want Spd+5 as a default so the extra MP would be coming at a speed hit.

Regardless if Random's numbers are correct (which give Karsh borderline OHKO to Aht with a chain + L5), Karsh should be very close to OHKOing even from the back row with chain + L7. Which means he doesn't need to use his full turn to heal-lock, and doubleturns aren't going to happen ever.

(CC: good at heal-locking. About the only thing the cast is good at.)

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