Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 126

[Nephrite]

"Well, I suppose we'll see if you can still manage to accomplish the tasks ahead of you..."


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
**Characters that join after the start are locked into the relative stats they have at that time until they would officially join.


Team Pyro | Rikku, Ryu2, Lilka, FFT Chemist, and Rand (Firefly)
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
*Half damage is done and received on the first action of both teams.
Team vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar
Team vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Magus, Robo and Lucca
Team vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Anastasia, Kurando and Blanca

Team Super | Orlandu, Emily, Kevin, FF1 Knight, FF1 Monk (Bravery Sealstone)
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team vs. Alex, Kyle and Luna
Team vs. Jack, Cecilia and Rudy(WA:ACF)
Team vs. Colm, Jaffar and Matthew
Team vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team vs. Boss Zed and Boomerang 2 (ACF)

Team Tranquil | Bartz (Monk*), Songstress, Peppita, Meru, Lucia (Life), Nall
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Tranquil vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4)
Team Tranquil vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa
Team Tranquil vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)

Firefly - The first attack of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget and status moves are not affected, however status attached to damage is.

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, however the healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.

Bravery Sealstone - Enemy damage is reduced by 25% and enemy status rates are cut in half (90% status becomes 45%, round down if needed) due to how brave it is to go into the Dungeon without a healer.

[Clear Tranquil]

Oh yeah Meru has Dragoon Spirit to start as well yeah? ~

Brief/quick run down of what my team has that I know-

Songstress - All stat up songs, http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Songstress
Darkness Dance (Blind) Samba of Silence (Silence)

Peppita -
Magic Hook (HP/MP damage, chance of chaos/confuse), Charge (HP/MP damage), short O, counters (HP/MP damage, chance of chaos/confuse), Critical Hit (passive for physicals/% rate)

Lucia - Gale, Shield, Rage, Heat Edge, Ocean and Misty Oils
Ocean + Misty | Immediate small HP recovery (w/th Life MT Revive)
Misty + Ocean | Immune to status abnormalities, 1t, 20 MP

Meru - Double Smack, Freezing Ring (might get Rainbow Breath by end of floor?)

[SnowFire]

Team Super passes easily.  That's way too much beatdown to be dealt with - Orlandu & Emily kill a target of their choice at high speed, then Knight/Monk/Kevin overkill a 2nd at average speed.  Status games are mostly out thanks to the Sealstone and wouldn't really help anyway with so much death going on.  Only the FE crew really threatens here, everyone else gets mauled.

Team CT probably passes, but it'd be nice to know what dances are available when for Songstress for non X-2 players.  (HP doubling or Haste would easily win vs. Augus / Joker...  if they're available.)

[Pyro]

 Songstress

From the Vice President

All dances are MT and their effects can't be cancelled as long as Songstress is dancing.

Floor 1:
Darkness Dance (Blind) Samba of Silence (Silence) All stat up songs
Floor 2:
Slow Dance (Slow) Sleepy Shuffle (Sleep)
Floor 3:
Carnival Cancan (Doubles mHP, heals 25% of original mHP) Brakedance (Stop) Jitterbug (Haste)
Floor 4:
Dirty dancing (100% crit rate)
Floor 6:
MP Mambo (MP Cost 0) Magical Masque (Magic Immunity)


Team Pyro | Rikku, Ryu2, Lilka, FFT Chemist, and Rand (Firefly)
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
*Half damage is done and received on the first action of both teams.

The floor is built not to be blitzed, but Rikku has fast MT status and Ryu2 has G-Dragon, which is still an MT Overkill even halved (...)

Team vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar:
Turn order should be... Rikku -> Deis -> Katt -> Lilka -> Chemist -> Ryu2 -> Bow -> Nina2/Spar/Jean/Rand/Rand(Mine).

Rikku can end it all with a Petrify grenade. If for some reason this is in doubt, Reflect prevents a key PC from dying. Any MT damage is undone by Lilka, and Ryu2 slaughters everyone but Enemy Rand with G.Dragon (through the damage halving). Other options off Rikku include MT Silence, Sleep, Blind.

Team vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Magus, Robo and Lucca: G-Dragon handles this nicely, slaughtering just about the entire enemy team (except maybe Robo?). Beyond that Rikku can ID people of her choice (and she's insta-doubling the slow folks with Use too, so can kill, say, Magus and then Marle, or something) Vigil Hats mean status is out unfortunately. Lilka's healing is more valuable what with the half-damage business. The enemy team may get a few MT damages off but it won't help. And that's assuming Ryu2 doesn't just Dragon em. (preferably save that for the next fight)

Team vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Anastasia, Kurando and Blanca: Rikku status (MT Sleep, MT Silence, MT Petrify, MT Blind, ST ID) is just too much to block sans Karin who immunes status/ID. Kurnado and Blanca can get turns POSSIBLY but the best they'll manage is to thwack Rand a bit. Something like Rikku Hastes Lilka -> Quicks Ryu2 for a G-Dragon would do this over quickly. Alternatively Rikku Hasting Chemist while Lilka Quicks Ryu2 for a Ether->G Dragon. With the floor damage and Firefly I don't think team SH2 could prevent a G-Dragon even if it took till turn 2 to get off. Fairly confident this won't be a problem.

Team Super | Orlandu, Emily, Kevin, FF1 Knight, FF1 Monk (Bravery Sealstone)
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team vs. Alex, Kyle and Luna: Orlandu kills Alex MP. Emily kills Luna...
Team vs. Jack, Cecilia and Rudy(WA:ACF): Murder Cecillia. Rudy shouldn't live to a turn.
Team vs. Colm, Jaffar and Matthew: Orlandu ignores evade and murders Colm, who is probably the nastiest of the bunch? Emily may KO the one with less evade?
Team vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5): Orlandu murders Killey (who is kinda fast) and Emily probably murders Lorelai outright too...
Team vs. Boss Zed and Boomerang 2 (ACF): Lots of murder. This is nastier due to being a boss fight but still isn't too hard. They may lose a PC but it won't cost them the floor.

Team Tranquil | Bartz (Monk*), Songstress, Peppita, Meru, Lucia (Life), Nall
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Tranquil vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4): So I guess Bartz has Kick on this floor, so that works. Sad as that is...
Team Tranquil vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa: Rosa musn't be allowed to get turns. Snowfire lays out a decent enough argument for why she won't.
Team Tranquil vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2): Not sure on this one. It seems rather excessively hard for the team as the offense isn't too impressive.

[Clear Tranquil]

Songs are MT too for what it's worth~

The Evade buff/Matador's Song is supposedly good vs physicals.

Edit - Ok, so DL does apparently have a FFX-2 stat topic, Matador's Song/MT Evade buff is +10 LVs to Evade, stackable?~

[Pyro]

The threats to you this week are in that last fight. Joker's MT and Augus' ST assault could be fairly mean. The team isn't very strong on damage on floor 1 surely (Monk is the best? he's probably not bad).

[Random Consonant]

Team Pyro | Rikku, Ryu2, Lilka, FFT Chemist, and Rand (Firefly)
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
*Half damage is done and received on the first action of both teams.
Team vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar - Rikku outspeeds everyone here, the end.
Team vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Magus, Robo and Lucca - Not allowing Vigil Hats to cover petrify = buh bye.
Team vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Anastasia, Kurando and Blanca - This isn't even worth thinking about, SH blocks Sleep never so nothing stops Ryu from going lolgdragon.

Thinking super also passes.

[Dhyerwolf]

Pyro and Super pass easily.

For CT, Neph...how do you intend to Peppita to be taken? She I guess...is basically in a fight and then disappears for forever and comes back severely underlevelled. I guess that isn't really relevant for this floor though so much.

CT's team otherwise...wow, yeah, literally no healing beyond Lucia. Well, guess that makes an obvious point of who to enemies should aim at.

Team Tranquil | Bartz (Monk*), Songstress, Peppita, Meru, Lucia (Life), Nall
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Tranquil vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4)- Sinspawn Ammes is like...good. First strike MT 25% CHP Demi? And then since it has First Strike, another one of those are like normal average speed? I'm honestly not sure that Lucia even makes this out of this match alive. After all, Songstress needs to Blind and Lucia needs to try to heal everyone else, so Bartz/Peppita/early game physical Meru combine to try to eliminate...Evil Gaia, Garland and Igglanova. Monk's damage is slightly above average, Meru's is tearworthy, Peppita is...good lord, even at floor 1 Peppita has scaling headaches since it's just her physical attack versus arguable techs. Maybe they can combine to kill Evil Gaia, who still gets a turn anyways. Good god, this is not happening.

Team Tranquil vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa- Dancer can Blind people here, but is that even really all that helpful? It doesn't stop Cover/Rosa spellcasting. A floor where Lucia must stay alive and no one can heal her at all...Lucia will die here. Nall may revive her with 1 HP, but she's dying. Even if they kill Rosa, Cecil will just revive her, and this team trying to kill Cecil is...not happening. No way to cure Rosa's status either, so the enemies are just going to be statused.
Team Tranquil vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)- The best I can come up with is that Meru can at least hit Joker's weakness? Assuming team doesn't wipe in the last fight (and realistically, they probably do), they probably come into this fight with about 1 HP all around.

[Clear Tranquil]

Peppita levels/develops normally with her dungeon team in the dungeon if I remember right.

Any character that joins later that the start of the game should be considered to join with the skillset and equipment from that point and scaled against other characters from that time period. In addition, their stats are locked to the earliest they join until they naturally would join, after which they will continue to gain strength as they would in-game. The exceptions to this rule are in cases such as Pokemon or Star Ocean 3 where it's simply easier to scale them from the start. Exceptions are always noted.

@ Pyro - Monk also has counters right?~

How is Monk's self healing for F1?

[SnowFire]

Practically non-existent, and Monk wants to set Kick anyway rather than Mantra in order to win Fight 1.

That said, I don't think blitzing Rosa out should be as hard as Dhyer thinks.  Monk's damage is slightly good (WM damage is failure, Thief damage is bad, Knight/Monk okay, RM/BM better), Peppita is not THAT far behind (if taken for the 1 fight at the beginning, she should be averageish; if she's taken at Moonbase, she shouldn't be taken as "second of joining up" but more like by the end of the dungeon, so she's underlevel but not grossly underlevel)...  let's say, conservatively, Monk has .45 PCHP damage and Peppita has .25 PCHP damage.  That's .70 PCHP damage, Meru needs just a tap more to kill Rosa with.  Monk is the slowest and the most damaging so Cecil's Cover should't even come into play.  Granted, Cecil can just spam revival on Rosa, but Cid damage shouldn't get THAT far...

...all that said, with no HP-doubling / Haste dance, & Blind presumably immuned, the last fight is now the troublesome one.

[Clear Tranquil]

Mmm, I guess Songstress MT Evade buff isn't as good as advertised then? Either that or I'm missing something and BoF2 boss physicals aren't subject to evade.

From BoF2 stat topic -

All BoF2 bosses are immune to instant death and gravity attacks. I'd probably extend this to things like Petrify and Transformation in the DL (BoF2 has neither of these). Otherwise, though, they can, in general, be hit with status. The exceptions are bosses with MS -3, as mentioned above. However, since most bosses have good MS compared to random enemies, they tend to be very status resistant. Use your own judgement with BoF2 bosses vs. status attacks, I guess.

Yeah, Peppita's damage is not bad F1. Her Short O is a 840% modifier (280% x 3), and Fayt, Cliff, etc are using their base physicals early on as well, and Peppita's mods are stronger. Sophie has the same powerful mods though but lower ATK/STR~

[Dhyerwolf]

Practically non-existent, and Monk wants to set Kick anyway rather than Mantra in order to win Fight 1.

That said, I don't think blitzing Rosa out should be as hard as Dhyer thinks.  Monk's damage is slightly good (WM damage is failure, Thief damage is bad, Knight/Monk okay, RM/BM better), Peppita is not THAT far behind (if taken for the 1 fight at the beginning, she should be averageish; if she's taken at Moonbase, she shouldn't be taken as "second of joining up" but more like by the end of the dungeon, so she's underlevel but not grossly underlevel)...  let's say, conservatively, Monk has .45 PCHP damage and Peppita has .25 PCHP damage.  That's .70 PCHP damage, Meru needs just a tap more to kill Rosa with.  Monk is the slowest and the most damaging so Cecil's Cover should't even come into play.  Granted, Cecil can just spam revival on Rosa, but Cid damage shouldn't get THAT far...

...all that said, with no HP-doubling / Haste dance, & Blind presumably immuned, the last fight is now the troublesome one.

If Cecil revives Rosa though, she's going to fall under Auto-Cover at low HP. Of course, Cid damage won't even come into play (he'll be blinded), but the only person who can break through Auto-Cover with magic is Meru, who can do it twice (and then have nothing for Joker).

[Clear Tranquil]

Peppita can chaos Cecil/Rosa maybe?

[Magic Fanatic]

Practically non-existent, and Monk wants to set Kick anyway rather than Mantra in order to win Fight 1.

To be fair, with how FF5 abilities work, !Kick is the ONLY class ability in the game that isn't learned with levels, so Monk!Bartz could have both !Kick and !Mantra set.

[Clear Tranquil]

Wanted to note Meru gains DLVs relatively quickly because speed  - I usually get Rainbow Breath while going through the Undersea Cave to collect the treasures right after she gets her spirit, then DLV3 in the forest at the start of Disc 3.

[Nephrite]

Just pretend Peppita starts at level 1 and levels normally as if you had her from the start. Otherwise I'd probably need to make her like a 1-point rank.

[dude789]

Practically non-existent, and Monk wants to set Kick anyway rather than Mantra in order to win Fight 1.

That said, I don't think blitzing Rosa out should be as hard as Dhyer thinks.  Monk's damage is slightly good (WM damage is failure, Thief damage is bad, Knight/Monk okay, RM/BM better), Peppita is not THAT far behind (if taken for the 1 fight at the beginning, she should be averageish; if she's taken at Moonbase, she shouldn't be taken as "second of joining up" but more like by the end of the dungeon, so she's underlevel but not grossly underlevel)...  let's say, conservatively, Monk has .45 PCHP damage and Peppita has .25 PCHP damage.  That's .70 PCHP damage, Meru needs just a tap more to kill Rosa with.  Monk is the slowest and the most damaging so Cecil's Cover should't even come into play.  Granted, Cecil can just spam revival on Rosa, but Cid damage shouldn't get THAT far...

...all that said, with no HP-doubling / Haste dance, & Blind presumably immuned, the last fight is now the troublesome one.

I'd reckon that Monks damage is better than .45 PCHP this early. FF5 Monk damage is seriously good early on and the only thing that beats it right now is Black Magic hitting a weakness. I'd peg it closer to .6-.7 or so.

[Clear Tranquil]

I was thinking what if Songstress goes for Silence Song instead, and then the team takes out Rosa ... or Peppita goes for confuse while the others work on Cid, or team goes for Rosa while Cecil is Silence, then confuses Cid? Q is also if Lucia ever actually gets a turn to throw up that status immunity or Rage/Shield or Gale Monk. Edit - Oh wait both Cecil and Rosa immune Silence, forgot Cecil did it.  He can't immune confuse though unless he takes off the hat that immunes Silence ;P

For third fight,  info from NEB~

BoF2 has neither blind nor confusion as statuses (well, there's one enemy move which is somewhat like confuse, but the PCs can't ever use it), so that's a judgement call. However, BoF2 boss status immunity doesn't actually cover very much (just fatal status and death) so I wouldn't extend their immunity too far. As far as I'm concerned they're unquestionably vulnerable to blind. Confuse is something I could see making the call either way on.

They are vulnerable to silence, but the only spell used by either is Augus' weak Cure 1, not really a big deal; they're both physical fighters otherwise.

Do note that BoF2 bosses have status resistance (via the MS stat; lower is better). Augus' status resistance is very high (probably reduces status chances by about 70%, according to some notes I have from later bosses with the same MS stat...), Joker's is above average on paper but I think most status spells should still be near-100% on him anyway.

Augus absolutely does not ignore evade, though from casual testing he does have better accuracy than most (still, a good blind should wreck him if you get it to land). Joker's special move, Poison Chop, is one I have never seen evaded but I haven't tested it so extensively as to be certain it ignores evade.

[SnowFire]

I was intentionally being harsh on Monk & Peppita, I too think their damage is probably better than that, but it doesn't need to be to be able to kill Rosa round 1.  (.70 sounds high though for a 6-class cast.)

For the Cecil revive hype - okay, so wipe Rosa turn 1, Cecil revives.  Round 2, Meru...  stored some SP from fight 1, sure, so she transforms and magics out Rosa, but everyone else beats down on Cecil.  Cecil revives.  R3, Meru kills Rosa again and Cecil takes another round of beatdown, and then IF Cecil is alive he can revive, and then he furthermore has to survive the Cover-beatdown incoming on Round 4 long enough to let Rosa not get smited after Cecil is dead.  Cecil is tanky, but he surely can't take 3 straight rounds of Monk/Peppita/Lucia beatdown.  So yeah, Rosa should never live to see a turn, and Blind should keep Cid damage minimal.

[dude789]

I was intentionally being harsh on Monk & Peppita, I too think their damage is probably better than that, but it doesn't need to be to be able to kill Rosa round 1.  (.70 sounds high though for a 6-class cast.)

Well White Mage and Thief are bad enough to cancel him out on the damage curve. Starting out Monk physicals do about 1.5x damage of a Knight physical and I'd say Knight's are on the right side of average. The first level black spells really aren't that impressive on damage unless you're hitting a weakness (which in fairness you usually are). This damage advantage exists pretty much for floor one alone though because on floor two, Monk damages is competing with stronger weapons and rod boosted -ara spells and summons so his relative damage crashes significantly.

[SnowFire]

How good is FFX-2 Blind?  Kind of matters since Poison Chop is effectively 5 different attacks, so 0% vs. 20% vs. 50% accuracy is kinda important.

Also, before people wonder about it...  from chatting with Tonfa before, FFX-2 enemies don't really have status resistance - it's either immuned or the Dances work 100% of the time and continue applying the effect while the dance is in effect.  I'd personally call that a base 100% hit rate that gets another attempt every turn, and once it hits it stays re-applied until the dance stops.  So...  Augus actually can hold out against Blind Dance for a bit for me.  Which is why he's probably going to smash Songstress right away.

Team Tranquil | Bartz (Monk*), Songstress, Peppita, Meru, Lucia (Life), Nall
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Tranquil vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4)
Kick turns this fight upside down, because yeah, it'd actually be a problem otherwise.  Sure, Sinspawn resolves 2 Demis, but Lucia just heals them off?  I assume that her healing is relatively better on F1 than the stat topic endgame numbers, e.g. 120 Healing vs. 300 max HP.  (for all that Team CT will have horrible horrible issues w/ healing later). 
Team Tranquil vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa
See above, Rosa never gets a turn, Cid never gets a useful turn.  So the whole team walks into the final fight at full health.
Team Tranquil vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)
If Augus gets blinded turn 1 and FFX-2 Blind is remotely decent, that's game.  It'll probably miss though...  Augus smashes up Songstress even through Lucia buffs if Lucia goes before him.  Joker gets de-blinded by the death and unleashes MT pain.  And ugh, Lucia & Augus are around the same speed, and Lucia probably wants to be slower to get a revive off...  mrph, this fight goes south fast if they can't blitz out Augus before his 3rd action.  Augus punches either a revived Songstress or Lucia + Save Strength, Joker unleashes more MT doom, and if Augus makes it to turn 3, Monk is softened up enough to be smashed out (even if you allow HP+30%!) and quite possibly someone else too.  With MERU weirdly being the tank here thanks to saving Dragoon levels and having double durability.

So, can Augus survive 3x Monk + 3x Peppita + 4x Dragoon Meru taps?  Stat topic claims he has ~2.5 effective PCHP, so Team Tranquil needs to put out ~.80 PCHP a round...  yeah they can handle that.  Not very well, but they can.  There's additionally the X-Factors of Nall revives (though not TOO relevant here) and Songstress getting lucky on her first Blind.  Augus can just do a double beatdown on round 2, but don't think he wins the long game if he does that, he wants to use Save Strength after knocking out Songstress.  So pass.

[ThePiggyman]

How good is FFX-2 Blind?  Kind of matters since Poison Chop is effectively 5 different attacks, so 0% vs. 20% vs. 50% accuracy is kinda important.

FFX-2 Blind is functionally the same as FFX Blind.

The Darkness status overrides the Accuracy and Evasion stats and lowers the chance of attacks and skills landing to 10%, before Luck is taken into account.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I kinda suspect Joker's Poison Chop is ITE so not sure how much he cares about blind. He's also not very good anyway. (watch out, poison status which only has out-of-battle effects!)


Anyway... saying F1 only includes the wind jobs feels kinda weird to me since you get the water crystal about two hours into the game, well short of the 1/7 mark or whatever people use to delineate floors. I'd personally say use the damage figures against Liquid Flame, myself (ignoring weaknesses of course):

Knight 2 handed physical: 455 (half that without 2-hands, and to be fair I'm often just short of 2 hands / you won't have it for sure unless you've stuck in knight the entire time)
Monk physical: 262
Thief physical: 156
Berserker physical: 234
Mystic Knight physical: 195
White Mage physical: 44
Black Mage -ara with elemental Rod: 384
Time Mage physical: 110
Summoner Shiva with Ice Rod: ~360
Blue Mage physical: 97 (can do more with Vampire, but Vampire's weird)
Red Mage -ara with elemental Rod: 320

Average: 235 without Two Hands

So yeah, 0.45 is actually pretty close for Monk damage! If you do take F1 prior to Karnak then Monk damage looks a fair bit better.

Knight physical: 127
Monk physical: 154
Thief physical: 78
White Mage physical: 31
Black Mage Ice with Ice Rod: 111
Blue Mage Aero: 85

Average: 98

I know different people use different scalings for dungeon floors and all that... if you wanted to say each fight had a different scaling, for instance, you could reasonably use Ship Graveyard figures for the first fight, Walse figures for the second, and Karnak figures for the third. etc. That'd be pretty reasonable probably.

[Clear Tranquil]

Meru can also block Poison too for what it's worth (Poison Guard and/or LoD Defend), Lucia too I think with Shell Bracelet? Though Meru might want to equip the early game ATK or DEF accessories for those who allow those dunno~

Edit - Ninjad by Elf, I see, I see~

[Dhyerwolf]

As a reminder, Meru is coming in as she starts plus Dragoon Spirit L1. Which means...no such thing as using magic twice in a row as I think that needs a higher Dragoon level to store up the SP. Also, since she's coming in as is, her only tech is her initial tech at it's initial level, meaning that it's 5 attacks to even get that magic spell (Even if you see it maxing or something, it's still 3 attacks. Since her next tech is at L21, it's F3/F4 ish).