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Author Topic: Final Fantasy 3 (PC): observations and brainstorming  (Read 2313 times)

Reiska

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Final Fantasy 3 (PC): observations and brainstorming
« on: May 31, 2014, 11:28:49 PM »
So the remake version of FF3 was ported to PC recently, and I noticed in short order that the game's file structure makes some aspects of it pretty simple to hack.

So far, I've documented the following things: the EXP-to-levelup table, the stat progression tables (there are 8 of them), the table which defines which of those 8 tables is used for each stat on each job as well as that job's MP progression, and the MP progression tables.

I haven't tried actually editing anything yet, but I should be able to change any of the things listed above.  So that begs the question:

If you were going to rebalance FF3DS in a rudimentary fashion, what are the first things you'd look at?  A few of my own observations are as follows:
  • New spell levels for White/Black Magic are unlocked much slower in the remake than the original NES version; the remake gives White/Black/Red Mages notably more L1 casts at the expense of every other spell level.  Would Black Mage be better midgame if it could actually use its higher level magic more regularly?  Would this make it broken when compared with the FF3DS physical jobs and with its non-MP based competition for magic?
  • Presume for a moment that Knight got its NES Agility stat back (this would give it equal Str/Agi/Vit).  Would this make it overpower Warrior entirely, or would Advance preserve Warrior's niche?

Edit: Adding some of my observations about the game's job balance in general.

Generally speaking, most of FF3's jobs have some niche they can fill in a party.  Those niches are not necessarily equally useful; there are clear power gaps.  However, few jobs in the game are well and truly bad, without redeeming factors. 

Let's look at the physical jobs.  There's little question Warrior is the best physical job; it has good armor, great weapons, and Advance is one of the best physical attack commands in the game.  Monk's damage fluctuates.  While on paper it can fight unarmed, it usually actually does better with claws in my experience unless you're overleveled a bit, at most parts, and the defense is inferior to Warrior's.  Still, it's competent.  Thief offers competent back row damage not limited by resources and can fuel a Scholar's lust for battle items if you want to run one.  Ranger offers similarly competent back row damage; Barrage isn't as good as FF5's Rapid Fire, but isn't terrible once the Ranger's JL gets somewhere.  However, it's a resource hog since it burns 4 arrows a turn.  Dragoon offers competent physical damage, and Jump is probably at its best here, but it's ultimately a worse Advance unless hitting wind weakness; still, with the amount of high MT damage FF3 throws around, not being on the field to take it can actually be a boon.  Viking's Provoke debuffs enemy defense (which as far as I know is unique) and they're excellently tanky; a backrow Viking with dual shields spamming Provoke is a legit strategy against bosses with physical attacks.  Dark Knight is the only source of true physical MT in the game, which can often be spectacularly useful, and at worst they get you past splitting enemies.  Finally, Ninja has high speed, high power, isn't amazingly JL-dependent, and Shurikens, while expensive, what else are you spending money on by then?

You'll notice I left two jobs out there: Knight, and Black Belt.  Black Belt is, on paper, supposed to be a better Monk.  It only succeeds in this regard if you've never used Monk, though, because it's very dependent on JLs.  There's no real way to fix the job short of somehow moving it to the Water Crystal (which I don't know if it's possible) or making it gain JLs markedly faster such that it can catch up (which I also don't know if it's possible). 

Knight, then, has the problem that it doesn't know what it wants to be.  It seems like it's geared as a tank class, but it can't proactively tank the way Viking can.  It doesn't particularly succeed as a tanky damage dealer either, both because it's not that much better at this than Viking and because Warrior's not especially squishy.  (Less durable, sure.)

On the magic side of things:

White Mage is your basic healing job for 75% of the game.  That's about the biggest niche you'll ever get.
Black Mage is your basic attack magic job for 75% of the game.  (This being FF3DS, it's not a good niche, but it's a niche!)
Red Mage is basically a support healer.  They have less potent healing than White Mage, but better offense and better durability.  Sometimes this is a good tradeoff.
Scholar is the item use champion.  With a steady supply of battle items (provided by a Thief?) they can do impressive damage.  See also BD Salve-maker.
Geomancer is the unreliable cannon.  They tend to put out better damage than Black Mages and they're not limited by resources, but you give up control and sometimes you get an effect that doesn't work.
Evoker is just an oddball.  Like Geomancer, it's unreliable, and like Black Mage, it's limited.  It's versatile, though, if undependable.  There's no reason to use one at endgame, but this is true of White/Black mage too.
Bard has unblockable gravity damage (even if it's at a fairly low %) and can auxiliary heal like Red Mage.  Also MT buffs, which I think are unique to it.
Devout is your basic healing job for the other 25% of the game.
Summoner is your basic attack magic job for the other 25% of the game.
Sage is your jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none magic job.  If you want Evoker effects for some reason, he's the one who should have them.  If you want a second healer, a Sage is superior to double Devouts since they can provide some offense in randoms (bad offense, but offense).

I left out Magus.  Why? Because:
1) Summons beat the shit out of Black Magic late game.
2) The few Black Magic spells that are worth casting that late are equally effective coming from a Sage.

"But Magus has more MP!"  You're almost at the end of the game and you have Elixirs, shut up.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 01:37:50 AM by Reiska »

Reiska

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Re: Final Fantasy 3 (PC): observations and brainstorming
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 03:37:45 AM »
Sadly, initial experiments with changing some of these files seems to do nothing, which means they are either unused holdovers from earlier versions (DS/PSP/phones) of the game or the data is duplicated elsewhere.  In the event I or someone I know actually manages to modify something, I'll update this post.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Final Fantasy 3 (PC): observations and brainstorming
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2014, 09:16:27 PM »
I know this thread is for romhacks and not in-game use but... Magus has some useful accurate status magic (and Flare competes just fine with summons against bosses once you get it, though it is late). They have higher INT and ridiculously higher AGI than Sages and are thus much better at their niche than Sage is. They did just fine in the in-game use thread and that was despite you tanking their score something fierce.

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Fenrir

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Re: Final Fantasy 3 (PC): observations and brainstorming
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2014, 12:11:02 AM »
Too bad

- Make going from JL1 to JL99 very fast, like in FF5 or Tactics
- Tone down stat gains gotten from job levels, and some skills like Advance accordingly
- Remove downtime from switching job levels
- Make HP gain per level unrelated to current job

- And turn bards into FF4 TAY Edward
- Also make that some hard mode patch I guess

And I'll buy FF3 again

Reiska

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Re: Final Fantasy 3 (PC): observations and brainstorming
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2014, 07:13:25 PM »
I know this thread is for romhacks and not in-game use but... Magus has some useful accurate status magic (and Flare competes just fine with summons against bosses once you get it, though it is late). They have higher INT and ridiculously higher AGI than Sages and are thus much better at their niche than Sage is. They did just fine in the in-game use thread and that was despite you tanking their score something fierce.

I probably underrated them there to be perfectly fair, yeah (I know I badly underrated Black Mage because it's a lot better in practice than it is on paper), although I still largely at least agree with Meeple's point of view there - there's not a huge amount of fights you can't one-round with competent melees, so my respect for the status is lower than it might be otherwise.