RPGDL 2014 Season 2, Week 2

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - DL Cthulhu does have a way to cheat around Hide stalling: the Cursed Sword. Mesarthim now starts the battle insane, and due to Insane Death, may randomly die on any given turn. I have no idea what the activation rate of Insane Death is (pretty low, one assumes) but compared to "stall for an indefinite period of time" I'm willing to give it some credit. Even with his now-lowered stats, Cthulhu can handily outslug, so with stalling ruled out...

BloodChalice puts a corkscrew on that strategy and doesn't cost Mesarthim any speed (the lower durability doesn't mean anything in the fight).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Actually it's the other way around, BloodChalice costs speed but the lower magic defence is irrelevant. That said Mesarthim is crucially still faster than Cursed Sword Cthulhu, so she isn't OHKOed... but slower than standard Cthulhu who can drive her insane and not allow her time to buff up properly (since she needs both regen + HideRune).

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Hmmmm, you're right. But then, it basically becomes a guessing game on equipment - Cthulhu can only win if he equips the Cursed Sword. If he goes for the default build, Mesarthim would have no reason to equip the Chalice, and if he goes for the Cursed Sword build, she still beats him in speed. I'd default the win to her anyway in this case, since the onus of the alternative build is on Cthulhu (REGARDLESS, if she is slower, she can't really win unless you allow all people who face Cthulhu PCs to gain 10% damage each turn).

[Dark Holy Elf]

I think he goes for his default build regardless. If she equips a Blood Chalice then she's slower so her game won't work at all. If she doesn't then Insane Death should get her at some point.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

He has MT insanity outside the Cursed Sword?

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't think he needs it. Mesarthim needs to give him a turn to get her game going, whether that be SoulRune for buffing or VitalityRune for regen. I guess you could just hype her winning turn 2 with petrify though... hmm. Wish I knew how accurate it was!

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It's the thing. If he goes for the default build and has no MT insanity skill, he can only inflict it on her if she's equipping the Blood Chalice. And if he's going for the default, she has no reason to equip it -at all-. Assuming both default and both alternative, she still gets to go first and cheese him out - she only loses if he goes for the default and she goes for the alternative, which, given full equipment option knowledge, makes no logical sense. There are more guessing game outcomes where Cthulhu loses than wins.

(Of course, if he -does- have MT insanity - which I'll check out just now - this is all moot and I'm changing my vote.)

EDIT: Just checked. Nope, all ST, unless he gets it off some arcane alternative level build (and my sympathy for mix-matching Cthulhu level builds midseason is pretty much zilch).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Going first isn't really enough. Without the regen what is she going to do exactly? She has to attack sooner or later. Remember that any action breaks HideRune... it's only useful for turtling with regen (which needs to be cast in advance) or waiting out opponent buffs. If Mesarthim auto-beat anyone slower than +1.1 SD speed without MT damage she wouldn't ever have been placed in Middle. Same with Glass Shield, which is only useful for waiting out opponent buffs or doing chippy counter-damage.

I mean I guess you can see her beating anyone ST who is slower than her... though it only flies if you force people into a CTB system -and- disallow waiting. Which well if that's what you do fair enough. (Also the entire mystic cast can do something similar which I would find pretty obnoxious.)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Weird thought, but since CKDL *is* the DL now... Might it not be worth while to move these season topics and player ship tracking topics to the RPGDL forum subsection. I mean, it prolly doesn't matter since it's just for us, but on the off chance any new people are interested in the idea, it might be nice if they can find it in the forum?

[Cmdr_King]

I'd rather not.

Also, home a bit late tonight, will update tomorrow eveningish.

[Talaysen]

Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)

Heavy

Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)

Middle

Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)

Light

Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Going first isn't really enough. Without the regen what is she going to do exactly? She has to attack sooner or later. Remember that any action breaks HideRune... it's only useful for turtling with regen (which needs to be cast in advance) or waiting out opponent buffs. If Mesarthim auto-beat anyone slower than +1.1 SD speed without MT damage she wouldn't ever have been placed in Middle. Same with Glass Shield, which is only useful for waiting out opponent buffs or doing chippy counter-damage.

I mean I guess you can see her beating anyone ST who is slower than her... though it only flies if you force people into a CTB system -and- disallow waiting. Which well if that's what you do fair enough. (Also the entire mystic cast can do something similar which I would find pretty obnoxious.)

In a sense, that's exactly my point. I mean, I both force them into a CTB setting and allow waiting, but, as far as I'm concerned, waiting spends a turn, and, both being originally from pure TB systems, there's no real waiting measure that keeps a double from the faster PC creeping up eventually. I'll also point out that, when first placing Mesarthim's rank, most people didn't even remember HideRune existing (it happens. See Eileen and Hellion being initially ranked Middle and Light respectively due to people not knowing what Copper Flesh did). Though I certainly won't blame anyone from barring that strategy from working through different waiting interps, it -is- obnoxious.

The mystic cast's resource for this kind of stalling is a bit more limited, since Glass Shield is more exploitable in spite of blocking off more attacks - needs to be recast upon breaking, can be broken by any attack, doesn't get past ST status, the works (though testing if ST status breaks through HideRune would be nice). HideRune is just unintuitively ridiculous once transferred into a CTB setting.

[Pyro]

Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears): Without MT I don't think he can punch through her speed and Knights.
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star): Not gunna happen.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series): What are the odds of Rika going first and landing Eliminat... probably less than 66% against someone like Tir.
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)

Heavy

Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon): Ouch. Status immunity.
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star): 2...HKOs? Two RDAs KO, so she needs to 2HKO. I'll just follow NEB on it I guess.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier): Not going to hype HideRune that hard.
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia): Tales bosses do get some respect from me.

Middle

Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)

Light

Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)

[MalcolmMasher]

For the record, Cthulhu can get MT insanity with Nightfall, the alternative to Curse (which is, barring wacky cases like this one, flat-out better in a duel). Not allowing characters to reselect their skill list from their "DL default" is of course entirely understandable. Since I wouldn't allow a turn-based character to double turn another turn-based character regardless of their relative speed stats, I do not see Cthulhu as needing Nightfall here, but I realize that isn't how everyone rolls.

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)- iiiiiiiiii vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)- i
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)- iiiiiiiiii
Rika (Phantasy Star IV)- iiiiiiiii vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)- iiii
Ted (Suikoden IV)- iiiiiiii vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)- iii

Heavy

Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium)- iiiiiiiiiiiiii vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier)- iiiiiiiiii vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)- ii
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World)- iiiii vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiii
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)- iiiiii vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)- ii

Middle

Etna (Disgaea Series)- i vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)- iiiiiiiii
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)- ii vs Brozong (Pokémon)- iiiiiiiii
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4)- -iiiiiiiiii vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- iiiiiiiiii vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)

Light

Mist (Fire Emblem Series)- iiiiiiiiiiii vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)- ii
Zozma (SaGa Frontier)- ii vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)- iiiiiiiii
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII)- i vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)- iiiiiiiiiiiii
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiiiiiiiiii vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- i