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Author Topic: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.  (Read 3753 times)

Grefter

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2014, 11:18:56 PM »
Two things.  If it was just normal kid fighting?  My answer might change.  I certainly wouldn't expect a child to sit there and take hits to the head without reacting.  They are children, not Gandhi.

Secondly.  What the fuck are you doing bro?  You are a funny guy.  Your sense of humor might have its root in a dark place (classically most comedy does) but that doesn't make it bad and not funny.  You are smart and have a quick with for reference and word play.  I am fast on the aggressive cutting jokes myself and that doesn't come from a need to avoid bullying, that just comes from having a big family of intelligent enough people that at least my brothers "enjoy" a lot of back and forth cutting humor (My sister engages on a slightly different direction, but that is more being the oldest than being the sister).  The humor definitely isn't something that makes you behave like an arsehole.

Embracing it has just made you over utilise that kind of humor, you aren't targeting it to people that like it (ie people like me) and are just pointing it everywhere.  You are missing the mark with people.  There is an audience for comedy and not all of it is for everyone.  It is an aggressive expression of wit and won't be for everyone.  You also aren't doing it up on stage as a professional, so you probably aren't in a position to take the stance of "Fuck that guy if he can't take a joke" to every single person in your day to day life and have a filter occasionally. 

Maybe you can't tell it to everyone, but if you have a good dead baby rape joke that you come up with I still want to hear it.  That filter is just a filter, your normal personality still will come through and it is super super important for you to still be yourself with friends that you can be (Hands down the hardest thing for me missing DLCon for a year is not having that chance to be my absolute true to my self in person with people for 12 months).

It kills me to see you say that being the funny guy you are is making you feel bad about yourself dude.
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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2014, 08:45:17 AM »
I suppose I should mention that I also faced some very heavy bullying.  Including some physical bullying.  Responding with physical violence never really felt like an option to me.  I eventually more or less ran away from the situation by skipping three grades of high school.

Meiousei

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2014, 05:30:01 PM »
My bullying problem went all the way to up to the end of elementary school, and each time resulted in something bad. Eventually, when trying to make friends I did a bet with some girls for them to accept that got me kicked out of the school-wide sleep in. Didn't help it also caused me to get detention and nearly expelled. It was as a result of the bullying that I had to play alone in the dirt, while getting teased by others. Yes, I did have friends but the majority were in other classrooms and I tended to be...not exactly the nicest person to be around. Plus I was a hanger on-er and a known troublemaker...

VySaika

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2014, 12:09:10 AM »
I was one minor change of actions(on someone else's part, no less) from being the kid in question 1 myself. Finally swung back at the guy who had been relentlessly bullying me for two and half fucking years. This kid was half my size. Think of the size difference between...well, me and say, Soppy. One hit, he was knocked down. His girlfriend held him down to stop him from getting back up and coming after me. If she hadn't done that, he'd have come after me and I'd have hurt him worse.

The thing is, I wasn't just enduring it in the years up to that. I talked to teachers, I talked to my mom, I talked to the fucking principal. Nothing changed. The bullying, both verbal and physical, never happened where a teacher could see it. So according to the school, if a teacher didn't see it there was nothing they could do. Of course that logic didn't hold up when I hit him back(though thankfully he was punished just as bad as I was for fighting) since that certainly didn't happen in front of a teacher.

The other reason the school gave for not doing anything about this before it turned into a fight? Because I was bigger than him. So clearly it was impossible that *he* could bully *me*. The one time I shouted at him before this happened, I got in trouble for it.  I so much as raise my voice to a smaller kid and I was in shit. Smaller kid slaps me in the back of the head while passing me in the hall, kicks my bag and instrument case, and talks as much shit as he wants, nothing ever happens. Because the administration adamantly refused to believe that a little kid could bully a big one....despite the fact that this very mindset meant I wasn't allowed to defend myself from him so how the hell was I supposed to not "let him pick on me" like that?

So...for those saying "violence is never the answer"...I'd like to agree with you. I really would. But when the authority figures refuse to do anything about this shit that happens day after day after day? I even tried intimidating him back first. Grabbed his arm one day that I was just sick of it and told him in what I thought was my most angry, frustrated tone to leave me alone. Then I let him go. No harm done. His response was to punch me in the back when I turned around. Mine to that was to backhand him into a wall. He still didn't leave me alone entirely after that...but he never touched me again. Just talked shit, but did it from well out of arm's reach. That, I could handle. And none of the other people who used to bully me even talked shit after that, they all stayed way the hell away.

Now, as a 30 year old, can I think of things I could have done that I didn't try besides knocking this shit into a wall? Sure.

But as a 13 year old, I had reached the end of my rope. He hit me one last time and I hit him back with as much force as I could put into one clumsy swing. It had the desired effect, most of the bullying stopped.

Obviously the real solution here is not to have a freaking broken system where the authorities in question refuse to acknowledge that bullying is happening and/or refuse to intervene to stop it. But that isn't something a kid can fix, now is it?

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VySaika

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2014, 12:58:01 AM »
1. Your child is bullied quite frequently at school and the school/teachers are unwilling or unable to address the problem. Eventually, your child beats one of the bullies quite badly, resulting in the bully being hospitalized and the school threatening a long suspension. How would you react?

Presuming I was told about the bullying before it reached this point, the school administration and I would have had some LOVELY verbal and legal fights already before this happened. And yeah, I would very probably get a lawyer involved if the school was that unwilling to address the problem.

If I was not told about this ever, a) I would STILL be raking the school over the coals for not contacting me when my child complained of bullying to them(the question assumes the child has approached the school to fix this and they did nothing), and b) would have a long talk with the child about "come to me about stuff like this I am more than willing to confront the school/parents of the bully in question for you".

I would definitely hold the stance that he should not have gone to those lengths in the fight, have more self control and stop after the first hit unless they attack you again. If you have to use force, respond with JUST enough to make the other person stop, never more.

2. You are on a federal jury, overseeing a white collar crime case. The defendant stole billions of dollars from pensions and siphoned off to his private accounts. You know people who were affected by this, though no one in your immediate family. The evidence presented by itself is however shaky, as the defendant's high priced lawyers got several key pieces of evidence tossed out.  Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

iirc, if the evidence has been "thrown out", then as a member of the jury I wouldn't even know it existed? Unless I've got my law processes mixed up. So not sure how to answer this.

3. You get your first job. One of your coworkers is extremely unpleasant and rude and indirectly lead to your termination from that job. Years later, you run into this same coworker doing a menial customer service job. They do not seem to remember you, and provide okay service to you. The business provides a website for a customer survey after the fact. If you take the survey and give the cashier a bad review, they could get in serious trouble. Do you take the survey? If so, what do you put down?

Customer surveys are boring and lame. I likely assume it's just someone who looks like said person and not actually them.

4. You cut off a delivery truck at a gas station. You go and get something from the gas station and head back to your car. The delivery person is still there and is upset. Do you say anything?

I don't drive. But theoretically, I'd apologise, yeah.

5. You accidently find out that one of your coworkers is using illegal drugs while at work. The person doesn't know that you know about the drug use. Management will require the person to take a drug test (Penalty of termination for failing it) if you tip them off about the drug use. Do you say anything to management? Your coworker?

Either talk to management or just ignore it if I don't think it's hurting anyone. That said, I would avoid said person after that due to having a low tolerance for drugs harder than pot, and I can't stand the lingering smell of pot so if that were the drug I'd avoid to spare my poor nose.

6. You accidently bump into another car while in a parking lot. There's no one around to witness the event, and there's no real visible damage to either car and you are in a hurry. How do you handle it? Do you wait for the person? Leave a note? Just leave?

I don't drive. Thus I'm honestly unsure what the protocol here is. I'd probably just keep going though if it didn't look like there was any damage.

7. You are unemployed and applying for a dream job, and get the interview. You are qualified for the job. The only issue is that you are short six months experience for the minimum requirement. Because you left the previous employer on good terms, they tell you that they'll lie and say you worked another year at the company than you did to help assure that you get the job. Do you accept this help?

I refuse to lie about things. This winds up causing me as many problems as it solves, but so it goes.

8.You place a modestly large order at a fast food place which happens to be very busy. They screw up your order and give you far more food than you paid for. You don't find this out till you're pulling out of the parking lot. Do you return it?

Nope. They couldn't take it back, so no point.

9.  An experiment is ran by doctors. They take 1000 victims in the late stages of Alzheimer's and perform medical experiments on them, including brain surgery. This is done of victims with no close living family, so there is no one to give consent. The entire experiment is hidden away so there are no legal or ethical challenges to the experiment. This ends up leading to a cure that halts the progress of the disease, and opens up other treatment options for brain diseases. What should happen to those doctors?

They should be tried. Let doctors following proper procedures try to replicate the experiments and sure they could lead to making major breakthroughs and whatnot, but the proper processes have to be followed or the FDA and similar organisations in other countries won't allow things based off the results of this unethical study.
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Excal

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2014, 12:58:45 AM »
1. Your child is bullied quite frequently at school and the school/teachers are unwilling or unable to address the problem. Eventually, your child beats one of the bullies quite badly, resulting in the bully being hospitalized and the school threatening a long suspension. How would you react?

The key question here for me is intent.  Did my child explicitly intend to injure someone else enough to send them to the hospital.  And if so, did they have a reasonable cause to believe that if they didn't use that level of force, then either the same, or worse, would happen to them.  (Of course, the second question remains pretty much on the level of this hypothetical.  I know the few times where I felt that I was gonna pass out from asphyxiation I was also completely and utterly powerless to do anything to change the situation)  Quite simply put, if my child intended it, then they are also responsible for it, and I'll probably not only support the suspension, but use that time to instruct the kid on why what he did is wrong, and why he should never do shit like that again.  If it wasn't his intention, then I'll probably have his back, and possibly even support a change in schools if a) the kid didn't want to stay where he was and b) I honestly felt that the bully situation would be better at a different school.  In my experience, the only real thing that changes is the face and name of the folks doing the bullying.

Now, there is an interesting tangent asking, isn't there some responsibility to be had for the reasonable outcomes of actions you take even if you did not want to cause that particular outcome.  As a society, this is a principle that is generally upheld, the easiest example being third degree murder.  Someone dies, you didn't intend for that person to die, but you took an action that inadvertently led to their death.  Bam, you're now responsible for their death.  The thing is, the moral responsibility then rests on the people who made the situation.  So, while being in a fight means that an injury like this is perfectly possible, the responsibility is on the person who started the fight since without their starting a fight there would be no injuries.

There is a secondary argument that the person who is being attacked can choose not to fight, and that injuries given to the other side would not be a possibility if the person being attacked declined to fight back.  However, there are two reasons I find this argument lacking.  First, there are very few moral systems that maintain that you have a duty to avoid harm so strong that you must sacrifice your own well being in order to do so.  Most systems of morality accept using proportional self-defense.  Secondly, despite what some proverbs may tell you, it only takes one to fight.  You can try to run or hide, but if those fail, then the risks of injury are already in effect regardless of whether or not you fight back.  The only thing that changes is the odds of such an injury taking place, and a broadening of the number of people who may receive them from just the target to the target and the instigators..  And this is ignoring the fact that running also increases these risks depending on where and how you run, and how the others chase you.  Suffice to say, any moral responsibility for an accidental injury would lie with the bullies for incurring the risk when they chose to start a fight.


2. You are on a federal jury, overseeing a white collar crime case. The defendant stole billions of dollars from pensions and siphoned off to his private accounts. You know people who were affected by this, though no one in your immediate family. The evidence presented by itself is however shaky, as the defendant's high priced lawyers got several key pieces of evidence tossed out.  Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

Hmm, so for the sake of this hypothetical I take it we're assuming that we made it past voire dire and that the decision hangs on our vote.  I'll also ignore the possibility of appeal here, because if that evidence is always going to be tossed out, and the case can't stand without it, then this is less a moral issue and more a practical one of "He's going to be found not guilty in the end anyways, so let's save society the cash and not send this straight to appeals hell". 

So, this question weighs two competing values.  The idea of justice/retribution and making sure that the guilty cannot get away with fooling the system.  Basically, an argument for making sure that everyone plays by the same rules and is granted equality of opportunity.  Against this, we have maintaining proper checks on the state, and ensuring that the innocent do not get indicted.  Now, assuming that the shaky case means that there is a reasonable doubt opened up by the exclusion of that evidence, then I would have to go with a Not Guilty verdict. 

While I sympathise with the argument that we should ensure that people cannot game the justice system and that no one can play fast and loose with the rules of society.  The problem is, that the State is simply very, insanely, powerful.  Especially in courts of law.  With this fact, it's good to have reasonable checks and balances on the power of the State to incarcerate people, and it is better to let a guilty man go free than risk incarcerating an innocent man.


3. You get your first job. One of your coworkers is extremely unpleasant and rude and indirectly lead to your termination from that job. Years later, you run into this same coworker doing a menial customer service job. They do not seem to remember you, and provide okay service to you. The business provides a website for a customer survey after the fact. If you take the survey and give the cashier a bad review, they could get in serious trouble. Do you take the survey? If so, what do you put down?

I may care enough to take a bit of petty satisfaction.  I most certainly won't care enough to lie about them just to get them in trouble.


4. You cut off a delivery truck at a gas station. You go and get something from the gas station and head back to your car. The delivery person is still there and is upset. Do you say anything?

If anything, I'd probably do a non-verbal motion attempting to convey "sorry" but otherwise just do my best to efficiently do what I came to do and get out of there instead of wasting time by going over and doing a verbal apology or explaination or whatever.


5. You accidently find out that one of your coworkers is using illegal drugs while at work. The person doesn't know that you know about the drug use. Management will require the person to take a drug test (Penalty of termination for failing it) if you tip them off about the drug use. Do you say anything to management? Your coworker?

I don't find the mere use of drugs to be morally questionable so this comes down to three questions.

A) Are the use of these drugs endangering anyone besides the user?
B) Are the use of these drugs damaging the ability of the employee to do his job?
C) Is the employee in question any good at their job when they aren't using drugs?

I'll admit, if the answer to C is no, then A and B may be moot in exchange for an opportunity to get someone more skilled into the position.  Regardless, if the answer is anything less than yes for C, then a yes answer to either A or B will lead to an immediate conversation with the employer.  If the answer to C is yes, or hell yes, then A and B come into play.  Specifically, a Yes to C followed by a No to A and B may result in a conversation with the coworker depending on how likely I think it is that someone will find out the same way I did.  If I think it likely, then I'll tip them off so that it's less likely they'll get caught.

Where things get interesting is with a YES to either A or B.  If the answer to B is a yes, then if minor, I'll point it out to the coworker and hope he cleans up his act.  If he can't, and he's good at his job, I'll probably try and find the employer most sympathetic to keeping the guy around and fill them in on the situation.  If it's major, then I'll just find the sympathetic employer first and let them decide what to do.

Finally, if the answer to A is yes, then it's straight to the employers.  If they're a really good coworker and this is new and aberrant behaviour, then I'll aim for the sympathetic one.  Otherwise, I'll probably aim for whoever I think will resolve the situation so there's no more danger.


6. You accidently bump into another car while in a parking lot. There's no one around to witness the event, and there's no real visible damage to either car and you are in a hurry. How do you handle it? Do you wait for the person? Leave a note? Just leave?

Let's be honest here, if you're in a hurry, then even stopping to check for damage is making the right move.  If there's none, then there's no reason to hang around.


7. You are unemployed and applying for a dream job, and get the interview. You are qualified for the job. The only issue is that you are short six months experience for the minimum requirement. Because you left the previous employer on good terms, they tell you that they'll lie and say you worked another year at the company than you did to help assure that you get the job. Do you accept this help?

Hmm, while good ol' Kant is whispering in my ear that all lies are bad, I'm honestly going to say that in this case, the lie is acceptable.  Why is it ok here?  First off, you're not asking for the lie.  What you're asking for is an assessment of your skills and competency at this new position.  In response to this request, they are willing to pad a non-primary attribute in order to ensure that what they have to say about your primary attributes for this position will be looked at.  Now, if it were a lie being offered about the core skillset for the job in question, or some other attribute that would effect your ability to perform in the position being applied for, that would be wrong no matter how you slice it. 


8.You place a modestly large order at a fast food place which happens to be very busy. They screw up your order and give you far more food than you paid for. You don't find this out till you're pulling out of the parking lot. Do you return it?

What the others said.  There's no value to be gained by returning it.  There is only loss.  A loss of your time and possibly gas, and the loss of the food itself.


9.  An experiment is ran by doctors. They take 1000 victims in the late stages of Alzheimer's and perform medical experiments on them, including brain surgery. This is done of victims with no close living family, so there is no one to give consent. The entire experiment is hidden away so there are no legal or ethical challenges to the experiment. This ends up leading to a cure that halts the progress of the disease, and opens up other treatment options for brain diseases. What should happen to those doctors?

What has been done here is immoral.  There is no question about that.  What should happen is that they be tried for their crimes and barred from the profession for life.  And their research be handed over to proper professionals to be used in ethical tests where consent is gained before using it for anything else.  Aka, expose it all to the light of day and let the sun disinfect the whole mess.

Sadly, what I expect would happen is that these guys would get a slap on the wrist, and then quietly offered jobs in places with little publicity.

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2014, 01:10:53 PM »
1. Your child is bullied quite frequently at school and the school/teachers are unwilling or unable to address the problem. Eventually, your child beats one of the bullies quite badly, resulting in the bully being hospitalized and the school threatening a long suspension. How would you react?

Give 'em a stern talking to, talk to the teachers and ask them some questions, and likely switch schools. Hospitalize is a bit extreme, though.

2. You are on a federal jury, overseeing a white collar crime case. The defendant stole billions of dollars from pensions and siphoned off to his private accounts. You know people who were affected by this, though no one in your immediate family. The evidence presented by itself is however shaky, as the defendant's high priced lawyers got several key pieces of evidence tossed out.  Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

Guilty. I believe that any white collar criminal with enough evidence against them that their case is actually brought to court has almost certainly actually committed the crime. Our justice system is biased enough toward the rich without me assisting in that bullshit.

3. You get your first job. One of your coworkers is extremely unpleasant and rude and indirectly lead to your termination from that job. Years later, you run into this same coworker doing a menial customer service job. They do not seem to remember you, and provide okay service to you. The business provides a website for a customer survey after the fact. If you take the survey and give the cashier a bad review, they could get in serious trouble. Do you take the survey? If so, what do you put down?

I would probably just smugly smile.

4. You cut off a delivery truck at a gas station. You go and get something from the gas station and head back to your car. The delivery person is still there and is upset. Do you say anything?

I'd apologize unless they looked scary.

5. You accidently find out that one of your coworkers is using illegal drugs while at work. The person doesn't know that you know about the drug use. Management will require the person to take a drug test (Penalty of termination for failing it) if you tip them off about the drug use. Do you say anything to management? Your coworker?

Depends on if they are doing a job which requires attentiveness, which drugs, and if they get on my nerves. Most likely I will just shrug and not give a shit though.

6. You accidently bump into another car while in a parking lot. There's no one around to witness the event, and there's no real visible damage to either car and you are in a hurry. How do you handle it? Do you wait for the person? Leave a note? Just leave?

Leave.

7. You are unemployed and applying for a dream job, and get the interview. You are qualified for the job. The only issue is that you are short six months experience for the minimum requirement. Because you left the previous employer on good terms, they tell you that they'll lie and say you worked another year at the company than you did to help assure that you get the job. Do you accept this help?

Duh.

8.You place a modestly large order at a fast food place which happens to be very busy. They screw up your order and give you far more food than you paid for. You don't find this out till you're pulling out of the parking lot. Do you return it?

No. I'd find some homeless person to give it to or eat it depending on how much it was.

9.  An experiment is ran by doctors. They take 1000 victims in the late stages of Alzheimer's and perform medical experiments on them, including brain surgery. This is done of victims with no close living family, so there is no one to give consent. The entire experiment is hidden away so there are no legal or ethical challenges to the experiment. This ends up leading to a cure that halts the progress of the disease, and opens up other treatment options for brain diseases. What should happen to those doctors?

Snowfire's pretty much spot on here. Most studies done by such unethical means will probably be flawed in other ways. Regardless, arrest 'em, assign less evil people to do the research legitly.
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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2014, 03:55:09 PM »
1. Your child is bullied quite frequently at school and the school/teachers are unwilling or unable to address the problem. Eventually, your child beats one of the bullies quite badly, resulting in the bully being hospitalized and the school threatening a long suspension. How would you react?

I'd bail my kid out of jail first, since no way that sort of fight doesn't get the police involved these days. It doesn't matter if the kid is in kindergarten, that's just the sad society we live in.  Anyway, on one hand I agree with how the kid handled it. On the other, getting hit with charges usually means you did something wrong. So in the mess of that, I'd get a lawyer. I wouldn't be thrilled with the child, but I couldn't find much to be upset about.

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2. You are on a federal jury, overseeing a white collar crime case. The defendant stole billions of dollars from pensions and siphoned off to his private accounts. You know people who were affected by this, though no one in your immediate family. The evidence presented by itself is however shaky, as the defendant's high priced lawyers got several key pieces of evidence tossed out.  Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

Not guilty. I don't like it, but jury trials are set up in a specific way for a reason. Convicting beyond the scope of them is a bad, bad, bad thing. It leads to people (even moreso than now) convicting based on personal bias and opinions. This assumes that shaky evidence means reasonable doubt exists. If it's more borderline, I dunno.

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3. You get your first job. One of your coworkers is extremely unpleasant and rude and indirectly lead to your termination from that job. Years later, you run into this same coworker doing a menial customer service job. They do not seem to remember you, and provide okay service to you. The business provides a website for a customer survey after the fact. If you take the survey and give the cashier a bad review, they could get in serious trouble. Do you take the survey? If so, what do you put down?

Nah, no need to be vindictive.

Quote
4. You cut off a delivery truck at a gas station. You go and get something from the gas station and head back to your car. The delivery person is still there and is upset. Do you say anything?

An apology's a good idea, so I'd do it. Unless I think the guy is about to take a swing at me, anyway. Then I do it besides my car if possible, or at least from a distance.

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5. You accidently find out that one of your coworkers is using illegal drugs while at work. The person doesn't know that you know about the drug use. Management will require the person to take a drug test (Penalty of termination for failing it) if you tip them off about the drug use. Do you say anything to management? Your coworker?

I tell management. Someone who can't control their basic impulses and can't respect the law at work really shouldn't be there in the first place. They're a liability that needs help.

Quote
6. You accidently bump into another car while in a parking lot. There's no one around to witness the event, and there's no real visible damage to either car and you are in a hurry. How do you handle it? Do you wait for the person? Leave a note? Just leave?

Tough one. Either I leave a note or I go. I'd like to say I leave the note, but I really don't know.

Quote
7. You are unemployed and applying for a dream job, and get the interview. You are qualified for the job. The only issue is that you are short six months experience for the minimum requirement. Because you left the previous employer on good terms, they tell you that they'll lie and say you worked another year at the company than you did to help assure that you get the job. Do you accept this help?

No. As much as I want to, it's the sort of stupid lie that can come back and bite your ass down the line.

Quote
8.You place a modestly large order at a fast food place which happens to be very busy. They screw up your order and give you far more food than you paid for. You don't find this out till you're pulling out of the parking lot. Do you return it?

Judgment call. Probably not, since I know it'll most likely be tossed. I've have orders wrong both for and against my favor, so I prefer to roll with it.

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9.  An experiment is ran by doctors. They take 1000 victims in the late stages of Alzheimer's and perform medical experiments on them, including brain surgery. This is done of victims with no close living family, so there is no one to give consent. The entire experiment is hidden away so there are no legal or ethical challenges to the experiment. This ends up leading to a cure that halts the progress of the disease, and opens up other treatment options for brain diseases. What should happen to those doctors?

Uh, if they're not capable of giving consent and there's no relative to do so, wouldn't they have someone appointed who can give consent? The question's flawed on those grounds, as even if a few didn't have anyone who could give consent, it wouldn't be that hard to find plenty of test subjects who do.
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<Nephrite> That is depressing.
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Crystalgate

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Re: Wheel of morality, turn turn turn! Nosy super questions on morality.
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2014, 09:03:23 PM »
1. Your child is bullied quite frequently at school and the school/teachers are unwilling or unable to address the problem. Eventually, your child beats one of the bullies quite badly, resulting in the bully being hospitalized and the school threatening a long suspension. How would you react?

Fight the suspension, which is easy since I live in Sweden. In fact, I don't think a long suspension is even possible here. If we pretend I'm living in the US, the answer is still the same. In any case, the reasons I fight the suspension is that I want to be in charge of the punishment and I think the school administering the punishment sends the wrong message. If the school doesn't stop the bullies, but is dead set on stopping my child's behavior, they are not sending the message that the punishment is a consequence of his behavior. They are sending the message that the punishment is the consequence of him being who he is.

As for the punishment, it depends on how hard he was pushed by the bullies. How reasonable is it to expect him to behave better considering what he went trough? I will not send the message that using force is never right, but I will send the message that using force is a last resort and should not be done lightly. I'd try to choose, or abstain from, a punishment that sends the correct message.

2. You are on a federal jury, overseeing a white collar crime case. The defendant stole billions of dollars from pensions and siphoned off to his private accounts. You know people who were affected by this, though no one in your immediate family. The evidence presented by itself is however shaky, as the defendant's high priced lawyers got several key pieces of evidence tossed out.  Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

Not guilty.

3. You get your first job. One of your coworkers is extremely unpleasant and rude and indirectly lead to your termination from that job. Years later, you run into this same coworker doing a menial customer service job. They do not seem to remember you, and provide okay service to you. The business provides a website for a customer survey after the fact. If you take the survey and give the cashier a bad review, they could get in serious trouble. Do you take the survey? If so, what do you put down?


I do not take the survey.

4. You cut off a delivery truck at a gas station. You go and get something from the gas station and head back to your car. The delivery person is still there and is upset. Do you say anything?

I apologize.

5. You accidently find out that one of your coworkers is using illegal drugs while at work. The person doesn't know that you know about the drug use. Management will require the person to take a drug test (Penalty of termination for failing it) if you tip them off about the drug use. Do you say anything to management? Your coworker?

I may warn my coworker first and give him a chance to stop. This is provided the coworker isn't already notable misbehaving in some way. However, I will not delay telling management very long.

6. You accidently bump into another car while in a parking lot. There's no one around to witness the event, and there's no real visible damage to either car and you are in a hurry. How do you handle it? Do you wait for the person? Leave a note? Just leave?

If there isn't a visible damage, I leave.

7. You are unemployed and applying for a dream job, and get the interview. You are qualified for the job. The only issue is that you are short six months experience for the minimum requirement. Because you left the previous employer on good terms, they tell you that they'll lie and say you worked another year at the company than you did to help assure that you get the job. Do you accept this help?

I will not accept that help. If not for my sense of morality, I'm very nervous about this sort of deception.

8.You place a modestly large order at a fast food place which happens to be very busy. They screw up your order and give you far more food than you paid for. You don't find this out till you're pulling out of the parking lot. Do you return it?

Almost certainly not to be honest.

9.  An experiment is ran by doctors. They take 1000 victims in the late stages of Alzheimer's and perform medical experiments on them, including brain surgery. This is done of victims with no close living family, so there is no one to give consent. The entire experiment is hidden away so there are no legal or ethical challenges to the experiment. This ends up leading to a cure that halts the progress of the disease, and opens up other treatment options for brain diseases. What should happen to those doctors?

Blacklist them from performing scientific experiments and toss them to the court. The fact that they made a break-trough should have no impact on the punishment. If anything, that almost makes it worse since it may encourage others to pull a similar trick.