Register

Author Topic: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?  (Read 1197 times)

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Meru (LoD) vs Todd (WA3)
Meru vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN)
Meru vs Keneth (S4)
Meru vs Karin (SH2)
Meru vs Adray (SO3)
Meru vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Meru vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Meru vs Twaikin (S3)
Meru vs Lieza (AtLC)
Meru vs Quina (FF9)
Meru vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Virion (FE13) vs Todd (WA3)
Virion vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Virion vs Swampert (PKMN)
Virion vs Keneth (S4)
Virion vs Karin (SH2)
Virion vs Adray (SO3)
Virion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Virion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Virion vs Twaikin (S3)
Virion vs Lieza (AtLC)
Virion vs Quina (FF9)
Virion vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd (WA3)
Gafgarion vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN)
Gafgarion vs Keneth (S4)
Gafgarion vs Karin (SH2)
Gafgarion vs Adray (SO3)
Gafgarion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Gafgarion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Gafgarion vs Twaikin (S3)
Gafgarion vs Lieza (AtLC)
Gafgarion vs Quina (FF9)
Gafgarion vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Red Mage (BD) vs Todd (WA3)
Red Mage vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Red Mage vs Swampert (PKMN)
Red Mage vs Keneth (S4)
Red Mage vs Karin (SH2)
Red Mage vs Adray (SO3)
Red Mage vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Red Mage vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Red Mage vs Twaikin (S3)
Red Mage vs Lieza (AtLC)
Red Mage vs Quina (FF9)
Red Mage vs Rubella (Child of Light)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 07:47:56 PM »
Meru (LoD) vs Todd (WA3)- Get some offense, Todd.
Meru vs Guy (Lufia 2)-  I... think? Guy wins if he isn't 3-2ed, which seems pretty close.
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN)- See Guy.
Meru vs Keneth (S4)- not 2HKOed.
Meru vs Karin (SH2)-OHKO
Meru vs Adray (SO3)- Not buying Ice Needles doing anything here.
Meru vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)- Think the magic halving's enough here?
Meru vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)- Confuse.
Meru vs Twaikin (S3)- Twaikin doesn't beat mages.
Meru vs Lieza (AtLC)- Deeper resources.
Meru vs Quina (FF9)- Quina's damage is bad enough that Meru has time to make confuse work.


Virion (FE13) vs Todd (WA3)- Much better offense.
Virion vs Guy (Lufia 2)- Any chipping gets a healing response, any attempt at blitzing gets a OHKO IP to the face.
Virion vs Swampert (PKMN)- Not doubled, not 2HKOed.
Virion vs Keneth (S4)- Go first, 2HKO.
Virion vs Karin (SH2)- Goes first.
Virion vs Adray (SO3)
Virion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)- Not 2HKO, 2HKOs back with ease.
Virion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)- Think her MP holds out.
Virion vs Twaikin (S3)- Defense.
Virion vs Lieza (AtLC)- Heal lock I think.
Virion vs Quina (FF9)- Quina kinda bad.

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd (WA3)- Draining softens Divide Shot's impact a little and Gaf is going first.
Gafgarion vs Guy (Lufia 2)- Guy's got too much durability and damage for Gaf.
Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN)-Gaf not much at chipping to avoid limits.
Gafgarion vs Keneth (S4)- Has the damage to punch through Night Sword.
Gafgarion vs Karin (SH2)- Strong kneejerk.
Gafgarion vs Adray (SO3)- Ice Needles does it's thing.
Gafgarion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)- Mia Def.
Gafgarion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)- Valk is really bad at blitzing.
Gafgarion vs Twaikin (S3)- *tink*
Gafgarion vs Lieza (AtLC)- Night sword against Lieza def? Ugly.
Gafgarion vs Quina (FF9)- Gaf has a little too much damage and speed to fear Bad Breath.

Red Mage (BD) vs Todd (WA3)- Red Mage offense is pathetic.
Red Mage vs Guy (Lufia 2)- Guy can run RM out of resources at worst.
Red Mage vs Swampert (PKMN)- Poison, protect, cruise.
Red Mage vs Keneth (S4)- Too much offense.
Red Mage vs Karin (SH2)- Snow can figure this out/10.
Red Mage vs Adray (SO3)- Freeze.
Red Mage vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Red Mage vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)-Outlasts.
Red Mage vs Twaikin (S3)- Oh god. Even if Twaikin immunes poison, surely RM can handle this.
Red Mage vs Lieza (AtLC)- Better resources.
Red Mage vs Quina (FF9)- Status.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 09:32:43 PM »
Meru (LoD) vs Todd (WA3) - Lack of Todd respect checking in.
Meru vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN)
Meru vs Keneth (S4)
Meru vs Karin (SH2) - Man how do I feel about LoD damage averages these days.  I guess tossing out all those overleveled additions drops it enough that Meru manages the 2HKO to me but otherwise lol.
Meru vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Meru vs Twaikin (S3) - Good lord.
Meru vs Lieza (AtLC) - Meru needs a double to have any realistic hope of pulling this off.  Not too sure she can force Lieza to heal before then, which would be bad since Meru only 5-4s and Lieza 3HKOs Meru's awesome untransformed durability (...)
Meru vs Quina (FF9)
Meru vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Virion (FE13) vs Todd (WA3) - Maybe the form with Psycho Crack would take this.
Virion vs Guy (Lufia 2) - Probably.
Virion vs Swampert (PKMN) - Shouldn't be doubled.
Virion vs Keneth (S4)
Virion vs Karin (SH2)
Virion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Virion vs Twaikin (S3) - wait Twaikin was one of the heavy armor people?  wtf noooooooo.
Virion vs Lieza (AtLC) - god this is bad.  Lieza may well be able to steal a win due to paralysis but if she can't this is ugly
Virion vs Quina (FF9)
Virion vs Rubella (Child of Light) - Should pressure well enough.

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd (WA3) - Faster and draining.
Gafgarion vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN)
Gafgarion vs Keneth (S4)
Gafgarion vs Karin (SH2) - Thinking the draining buys him enough time.
Gafgarion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Gafgarion vs Twaikin (S3) - Oh god the draining against those defenses, no.
Gafgarion vs Lieza (AtLC)
Gafgarion vs Quina (FF9)
Gafgarion vs Rubella (Child of Light) - Draining.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 01:56:53 AM »
Meru (LoD) vs Todd (WA3): Todd's got a 2HKO here, but Meru is faster and can go dragoon to tank/heal through it. Gain 400 SP, then magic, heal, magic, magic should kill? If not... probably still manages.
Meru vs Guy (Lufia 2): Pretty sure she handles this.
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN): If stat downs work on dragoons then maybe Swampert can win this, but nah not inclined to make that tiebreak.
Meru vs Keneth (S4): Kenneth's a mage, so he can't really threaten Meru I don't think? S4 physical kinda scares her but not much, this is like Todd again except Kenneth's slower than Todd.
Meru vs Karin (SH2): Not sure where this OHKO hype is coming from, Karin's physical damage is unspecial and her fire is magic and only hits a 1.5x weakness (hence physicals are still better!).
Meru vs Adray (SO3): Uhh Adray needs to get two shots of Ice Neeldes in (Meru doesn't immune stop, which is the LoD status I'd see as analogous to freeze) when Meru isn't a dragoon. Obviously he can get the first early... can he turtle until then? Yeah probably, between Reflection and Healing.
Meru vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC): Oh yes Mia can half ice while being sub-Kyle speed, that's so scary. Meru outlasts Mia pretty easily.
Meru vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default): Weird turtle/counterturtle fight. I'm not really sure. Probably Meru? Valkyrie can block confuse, but -10 speed doesn't help.
Meru vs Twaikin (S3): Yeah no.
Meru vs Quina (FF9): Nulls ice. Casts Vanish if Meru goes dragoon to turtle that away, otherwise the damage is mockable and can be beaten out by some status option or other.
Meru vs Rubella (Child of Light): Uh surely.

Sniper Ruffles, I think. That extra damage goes a long, long way.

Virion (FE13) vs Todd (WA3): Faster, 3HKOs, isn't 2HKOed.
Virion vs Guy (Lufia 2): Sure. Probably the same as Swampert below honestly.
Virion vs Swampert (PKMN): Have to think he 2HKOs, and he certainly isn't 2HKOed or 3-2ed... or doubled I don't think.
Virion vs Keneth (S4): Faster... a OHKO is even possible here? Doesn't matter anyway.
Virion vs Karin (SH2): Faster, 3HKOs, isn't 2HKOed. Sensing a pattern with Virion against Middles, here...
Virion vs Adray (SO3): Has a 2HKO on the somewhat frail Adray, and is faster, and Adray's status isn't turn 1. I guess... Protection could stave off a 2HKO? But I remember SO3 defence being crap and anyway Adray is further below average before Protection than he is above average after it.
Virion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC): 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed. In theory I should check if Ice Shell can tilt this, but meh.
Virion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default): Valkyrie's not bad against a non-healer, and is reasonably tanky. Just spend most of the time in the air, and throw in a Spirit Barrier.
Virion vs Twaikin (S3): Eh sure.
Virion vs Quina (FF9): Quina's not great against non-elemental types faster than it. I could probably be talked into allowing Night but eh...
Virion vs Rubella (Child of Light): My gut says she's 2HKOed here, and that's hard to come back from.

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd (WA3): Should drain off Todd's damage.
Gafgarion vs Guy (Lufia 2): Trusting Super.
Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN): GROWL/Mud Shot for a lap and kill? Gaf needs five hits to kill this way so Swampert will get three shots in, gotta think they'll punch through his game.
Gafgarion vs Keneth (S4): That damage stings.
Gafgarion vs Karin (SH2): Karin can't really outpace the draining.
Gafgarion vs Adray (SO3): Ice Needles.
Gafgarion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC): Mia probably has an argument with defence-buffing but meh.
Gafgarion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default): On the one hand, Spirit Barrier shuts off the drain game. On the other hand... not sure she can blitz during that time anyway? Hmm. She'll probably use Spirit Barrier, then High Jump, High Jump, High Jump, wait, High Jump... that may kill? Gaf gets in five attacks in the meantime, and if the first four break Spirit Barrier he wins. ... and yeah surely they do. Heck, three might.
Gafgarion vs Twaikin (S3): To be perfectly honest, Twaikin's offence is SO HORRIBLE that even a greatly reduced draining should be enough. Being ITE helps here, even if Twaikin thirds physical damage I think he may be fucked. That is how sad his offence is. Though... the reduction might be even more badass? Mm. On paper it like sixths damage. That... might be enough, but it's close. Of course, kneejerk is don't respect THAT level of pdur to the listed value, so... mm. Let's say Gaf heals 10% each turn. Twaiking does 15% or so... with some discredit for Gaff's shield, and the turnsplit is like a 4-3... yeah I think the draining's good enough.
Gafgarion vs Quina (FF9): Yep.
Gafgarion vs Rubella (Child of Light): Runs her out of resources.

Red Mage (BD) vs Todd (WA3): Cast two Protects, refresh every four turns, cast Cura a lot... this should barely outpace Todd's damage. To make matters worse he pretty much has to keep punching RM into Revival range, I think. But... oh god, HEALING FACTOR may counter-troll RM. Yeah, holy crap, Todd runs RM out of resources with that, 5% infinite healing owns RM who does less than 3% damage per turn, and is slower. ... except wait, FIRE POISON literally tilts a match, for the first time ever.
Red Mage vs Guy (Lufia 2): Again, weak infinite healing... and/or offensive pressure. Guy being slower and vulnerable to sleep is really bad, but he's immune to poison so I think he'll manage.
Red Mage vs Swampert (PKMN): Poison/sleep strats do their thing.
Red Mage vs Keneth (S4): Sleep is turn 1, but Kenneth does hit awfully hard and is slightly faster. Sleep, heal twice... yeah I think Sleep needs to be a bit too close to perfect for RM to win this.
Red Mage vs Karin (SH2): Clearcut slaughter, actually, see Todd.
Red Mage vs Adray (SO3): Adray can be slept, but is immune to poison and only needs two shots at Ice Needles to win. He'll get those.
Red Mage vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC): Sleep/poison.
Red Mage vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default): Valkyrie pretty much doesn't beat people who can heal or buff.
Red Mage vs Twaikin (S3): Twaikin immunes both poison and sleep so... uh... but yeah RM can probably do the needed stalling. Takes forever.
Red Mage vs Quina (FF9): I think?
Red Mage vs Rubella (Child of Light): Poison/sleep. Rubella can do that status immunity buff but RM can wait that out with his far superior resources.

Meru 9-2
Gafgarion 7-4
Red Mage 6-5
Virion 4-7
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 07:24:54 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2014, 06:17:04 AM »
I'm not sure what overlevelled techs you mean for LoD Random. The last tech is learned at L30. Everyone but Dart and Meru should very, very, very easily master additions (and it's still pretty easy with Dart and Meru. You generally get a minimum of 1 addition per PC per random, and 10 levels in LoD is a lot. Landing 160 attacks shouldn't be too difficult at all. Keeping with the levels in the stat topic, I generally get all additions mid disk 4. Needless to say, the number of additions you would get in the final dungeon alone would be quite high).
Meru (LoD) vs Todd (WA3)
Meru vs Guy (Lufia 2)- Meru can't 2HKO with anything, and that 50% HP IP healing is going to just eat here since she has one big damage shot.
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN)
Meru vs Keneth (S4)- Starting SP wins this.
Meru vs Karin (SH2)
Meru vs Adray (SO3)- Nulling Ice nulls Freeze in SO 3. Adray could try winning other ways, but Meru's physical is passable enough and it's not like his healing is near full at all.
Meru vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Meru vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)- Meru's healing and her ability to pump out damage semi conflict with resources.
Meru vs Twaikin (S3)- If Meru uses the summon, she can do 70% of Twaikin's HP over 3 turns. She will also need...god knows how many attacks to eat through that defense and evade. Twaikin cuts average physicals by like 85%. So the new tactic is that Meru will be using only her L1 (yikes). Now she needs 6 attacks to kill. She's going for Cool Boogie to maximize SP. Start with 2 turns of SP, hit 1 Cool Boogie, 2 more spells, 1 Cool Boogie, 2 more spells. We'll say one of those Cool Boogies will miss with his evade. So she needs at minimum likely 9 turns to put him away. For me, she about 3-2s on average (minus the first turn, where LoD speed is randomized and that doesn't help as much). So we'll say that Twaikin is getting 6 turns probably (would be 5 if the first turn wasn't randomized in LoD). Now...6 Twaikin turns would kill average. Given that there is going to be an opening or two where she is not transformed, and he'll get her. This is where healing comes into play. She can heal twice for 50% at the cost of a turn. Using it once extends the amount of turns she needs to win by at least 2 (but maybe more if she misses the Cool Boogie). Uh...god, I guess she may win this on average to me, but I would think that with no starting SP she might be in more trouble. If you don't scale S3 evasion, then she needs 2-3 attacks to land each Cool Boogie while staying in normal Pdur form (aka: I'm not remotely sure how she wins in these situations)
Meru vs Lieza (AtLC)- Meru can 2HKO her, so heal lock until double.
Meru vs Quina (FF9)
Meru vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Virion (FE13) vs Todd (WA3)
Virion vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Virion vs Swampert (PKMN)
Virion vs Keneth (S4)
Virion vs Karin (SH2)
Virion vs Adray (SO3)
Virion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Virion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Virion vs Twaikin (S3)
Virion vs Lieza (AtLC)- She would get status turn 1, but she can't kill before it wears off and it would fail chance 2 to me.
Virion vs Quina (FF9)
Virion vs Rubella (Child of Light)- Don't think Virion 2HKOs average to me, let alone to Rubella

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd (WA3)
Gafgarion vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN)
Gafgarion vs Keneth (S4)
Gafgarion vs Karin (SH2)
Gafgarion vs Adray (SO3)
Gafgarion vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Gafgarion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Gafgarion vs Twaikin (S3)- Not really respecting Gaf's ability to do damage here at all
Gafgarion vs Lieza (AtLC)
Gafgarion vs Quina (FF9)
Gafgarion vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Red Mage (BD) vs Todd (WA3)
Red Mage vs Guy (Lufia 2)
Red Mage vs Swampert (PKMN)
Red Mage vs Keneth (S4)
Red Mage vs Karin (SH2)
Red Mage vs Adray (SO3)
Red Mage vs Mia (Lunar:SSSC)
Red Mage vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Red Mage vs Twaikin (S3)- RM literally does 1 with everything here.
Red Mage vs Lieza (AtLC)
Red Mage vs Quina (FF9)
Red Mage vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Meru 8-4 (Pretty good considering my general respect for her!)
Gaffgarion 7-5
Red Mage 5-7
Virion 3-9 (Virion is...a middling FE fighter. No real tricks or quirk to turn any matches)
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2014, 06:35:27 AM »
Quote
You generally get a minimum of 1 addition per PC per random, and 10 levels in LoD is a lot. Landing 160 attacks shouldn't be too difficult at all. Keeping with the levels in the stat topic, I generally get all additions mid disk 4. Needless to say, the number of additions you would get in the final dungeon alone would be quite high).

Landing 560 successful additions (which is what Dart needs) throughout the whole game is pretty tricky actually. It's not the final level which is the problem.

Are you sure about ice immunity stopping freeze? I have pretty clear memories of some enemy healing from Ice Daggers and getting frozen by it anyway. Maybe that's a difference between immunity and absorption, though...

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2014, 02:53:56 AM »
Hmm, it is completely possible that it is immunity vs absorption and I've not remembering correctly.

In fairness, 560 is not bad at all for someone with you the whole game start to finish in LoD. I've replayed the game several points and when I knew what I was doing I never had any problem maxing additions with plenty of time to spare. Dart is the only PC I've ever had trouble keeping up with additions a little, and that's more because of the one really annoying one (Volcano?) delaying me a bit. There's no way that anyone but Dart and Meru would have some level of penalization (everyone else learns their penultimate much earlier).
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 06:18:59 AM »
Haschel has about as much trouble as those two. Otherwise... *shrug* different experiences there, for me trouble mastering all additions is kinda the norm. (Heck on my first playthrough I mastered nobody's, but rotated PCs reasonably often and skipped all the sidequests.) Some math/thoughts on the subject here.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Glen Veil

  • Just call me...
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 297
  • HO-UOU-IN K-YO-U-MA~
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2014, 05:26:52 PM »
Meru (LoD) vs Todd (WA3) kneejerk
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN)
Meru vs Karin (SH2) Karin's offense is bad and Meru hits her weakness better then she hits Meru's weakness.
Meru vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default) Pretty sure she can default chain into brave blitz with that 2 bp spinny move of hers. Nevermind, Valkyrie damage without other class skills is awful, she probably still wins with Spirit Barrier into soul crush to outlast Meru's resources.
Meru vs Quina (FF9)
Meru vs Rubella (Child of Light) If only Rubella had an offensive stat growth worth a damn.

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd (WA3)
Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN)
Gafgarion vs Karin (SH2)
Gafgarion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Gafgarion vs Quina (FF9)
Gafgarion vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Red Mage (BD) vs Todd (WA3) ...Ha, ha ha, fire poison...reallly...
Red Mage vs Swampert (PKMN)
Red Mage vs Karin (SH2)
Red Mage vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default)
Red Mage vs Quina (FF9)
Red Mage vs Rubella (Child of Light)

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds l/m: Can Red Mage overcome Karin's mighty regen?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 03:12:57 PM »
Meru (LoD) vs Todd Dukakis (WA3) - Todd has a low 2HKO on Meru and... uh yeah, that's not really panning out for him too well. I guess he could attempt to troll the healing with Divide Shot, but does that even go through Dragoon reduction?
Meru vs Guy (Lufia 2) - I think. The 3-2 is just too hard to recover from.
Meru vs Swampert (PKMN) - Um, Swampert just OHKOs Meru of the 0.51 pdur and she has no Earth resistance that I can recall.
Meru vs Keneth (S4) - I suppose. Meru's mdur is pretty averagish, but that still ain't panning out for Keneth too great, she probably can get enough Dragoon turns here.
Meru vs Karin Koenig (SH2) - Yeah, Geuschbenst isn't elemental and Sonnestark, which is -magical- gets Karin 3-2'd by Meru if she attempts to open with it due to the horrendous recharge. From there, she surely can work Karin out, especially with that 25% water weakness dangling from her hip.
Meru vs Adray Lasbard (SO3) - Yeah, pretty sure this works.
Meru vs Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) - Yeah, Mia doesn't even 2HKO Meru with Dragon Cane Flameria and she needs it to resist water/ice. Ice Shell isn't really doing much of anything here. 
Meru vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default) - EDIT: NOPE, Sky High is just Jump, not High Jump. Sure, burping Elfboy then.
Meru vs Twaikin (S3) - Twaikin offense.
Meru vs Lieza (AtLC) - I think this is right. Lieza's counters are so horrid they're not really scaring Meru and the status threat gets mostly brutalized by Dragoon.
Meru vs Quina Quen (FF9) - Yep. Meru doesn't have much of a game against Ice immunity.
Meru vs Rubella (Child of Light) - I'm actually not sure Meru has that much of a realistic chance given the counter-healing strats. Rubella's mdef is also high enough to make a 2HKO on a double a bit sketchier and she's very fast on turns she ain't healing (she's likely effectively the fastest PC in the game when using Tumble, and above average speed+medium charge time on Heal likely keeps her handily fast enough in practice as well, that effective speed is only outdone by Robert's arrow attacks off medium charge times), which means Meru won't get to double -that- soon either. Regardless, this is pretty much handwaving until we have a stat topic on the game.

8-4. The performance went pretty well, but Meru's pdur almost always baffles me.

Virion (FE13) vs Todd Dukakis (WA3) - Todd -just- misses the 2HKO off Divide Shot+Meteor Drive and Virion 2HKOs otherwise (don't think Todd's above PC HP).
Virion vs Guy (Lufia 2) - Virion 3HKOs, and I think Guy can 2HKO him very easily with an IP. Trying for chipping gets him healstalled.
Virion vs Swampert (PKMN) - Is 3HKOed and 2HKOs back.
Virion vs Keneth (S4) - Oh wow.
Virion vs Karin Koenig (SH2) - Regen keeps the 2HKO from coming and she 3HKOs back at worst while being faster as long as she doesn't go stupid with the high recharge moves.
Virion vs Adray Lasbard (SO3) - Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah no.
Virion vs Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) - I think Mia's damage just really isn't up to snuff here. She -4HKOs- Ruffles with Wind Cane and going for a Dragon Cane leads her to eating well over half her health in damage before she can even put her feet off the ground.
Virion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default) - I -think-? Suspect Spirit Barrier actually tips this over, and Valkyrie's both decently durable and faster than Virion. 
Virion vs Twaikin (S3) - While Twaikin's offense is seven kinds of awful, holy -shit- that pdur.
Virion vs Lieza (AtLC) - Heal-locks with a Killer Bow (which also happens to KO her on a crit, methinks) and Lieza can't really do much of anything about it.
Virion vs Quina Quen (FF9)[/b] - Eh. Vanish isn't very useful with that duration and Virion gets in a free hit, which happens to 2HKO Quina's ass. Status is too unreliable to work.
Virion vs Rubella (Child of Light) - Multihits hand Rubella a lot more chances of triggering counter-healing and I'm not convinced she even gets 2HKOed by Virion. When in doubt...

5-7. Only so far a low-end 2HKO can go off the generally below average stat spread.

Gaff Gafgarion (FFT) vs Todd Dukakis (WA3) - Welp.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Guy (Lufia 2) - eh sure
Gaff Gafgarion vs Swampert (PKMN) - Sure!
Gaff Gafgarion vs Keneth (S4) - Think that's a bit much damage for Gaffy's draining game.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Karin Koenig (SH2) - Below average damage really isn't what you want against Gaffy's game.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Adray Lasbard (SO3) - Icy needles.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) - I think I feel Mia's argument with Ice Shell more than Gaffy's today, high defense makes both Gaff's damage and draining suck and he doesn't get access to elemental resistance.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default) - I have to think Spirit Barrier actually -spoils- Gaffy's game here to a degree, but I don't think it's enough? Gaffy's sorta durable and Valkyrie might not 4HKO himself.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Twaikin (S3) - I'm burping Elfboy and not thinking about this any further.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Lieza (AtLC) - Lieza offense and defense against Gaffy, that's gonna work -so- well.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Quina Quen (FF9) - Ew.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Rubella (Child of Light) - You don't really beat Gaffy with bad offense.

7-5. About what I'd expect.

Red Mage (BD) vs Todd Dukakis (WA3) - FIERY POIZN LITERALLY WINNING A FIGHT AW YEAH
Red Mage vs Guy (Lufia 2) - Red Mage doesn't really win much of anything against poizn-immunity and healing strats.
Red Mage vs Swampert (PKMN) - If he could do it against Peter...
Red Mage vs Keneth (S4) - Keneth being faster kinda puts Red Mage into a dicy spot here.
Red Mage vs Karin Koenig (SH2) - When you can't break 5% mHP regen, you -know- you're a complete winner. Karin's even vulnerable to sleep, but Red Mage can't -ever- make any sort of long-term leeway here. He manages to get Karin berserked -relatively early- into the fight and it makes absolutely no difference at all!
Red Mage vs Adray Lasbard (SO3) - More of that poizn-immune healing.
Red Mage vs Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) - Vulnerability to all of Red Mage's status -and- bad damage? This is like Red Mage's wet dream.
Red Mage vs Valkyrie (Bravely Default) - Valkyrie doesn't really beat healers ever.
Red Mage vs Twaikin (S3) - Nor does Twaikin. Red Mage might as well go for his MAGIC BLITZING setup for a faster kill here.
Red Mage vs Lieza (AtLC) - Lieza has to completely dump her durability into Pikachu range in order to immune all the relevant status... and still wins this in a complete laugher because Red Mage offense is just that damn epic.
Red Mage vs Quina Quen (FF9) - Silence first, happy poizn => slp shenanigans.
Red Mage vs Rubella (Child of Light) - The status immunity buff doesn't really pan out here, what with not being permanent and all. Good thing too, because Red Mage would -never- break past the counter healing gimmick otherwise.

7-5. Actually oddly solid against the fully status-vulnerable, but even poison immunity starts giving him issues. If you immune all three and have healing, you beat him even if you have sub-Pikachu durability, as Lieza kindly shows.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 12:43:58 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....