Author Topic: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1  (Read 2206 times)

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« on: September 10, 2014, 06:31:38 AM »
CRESS: I'm a spunky time-traveler with an awesome haircut!  Prepare to face justice!

MAGUS: Ah!  The Eternal Sword!  I bet you're just dying to use it!

CRESS: I penetrated a space-time barrier with this thing, don't knock it.  Way better than some jacked-up ruby knife, IMHO.

MAGUS: The black wind begins to blow....  okay....  give me your best shot...  if you're prepared for the void!


(Turnout was small, so these entries are it.)

Divinities

Piastol (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) vs. Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier)
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy)

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF)

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends)
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier)
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky)

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Katsuya Suou (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 06:36:28 AM by SnowFire »

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5581
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 07:00:55 AM »
Divinities

Piastol (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) vs. Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier)
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)- I know this has come up but for the life of me I don't remember how it maths out.

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)- No vote.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy)

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)- No vote.
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF)

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends)
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier)
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5)- I think.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky)

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Katsuya Suou (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 06:59:32 AM by Cmdr_King »
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 07:48:05 AM »
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)
Hmm, Extension Force is unblockable and smashes up all of Emelious's parts.  And Emelious's magic damage is...  not good.  I'm not really on the Loki PDef hype train as much as some (you're forced to have 1/4 of your team have a Glance Reviver, and probably 1/3 of your fighters), though...  even though Emelious's sword & orb fall fast, I don't think they're 1HKOed or anything (and the sword probably isn't even 2HKOed?), and Loki kind of needs that.

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3)
Gonna presume she 2HKOs, the SO2 HP stat spread is not that high IIRC.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
My Disgaea voting rights are real shaky, but Lucid Barrier and/or Defender should take the day here, barring Disgaea enemy speed hype.

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)
Non-elemental magic smash.
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Evasion and tankiness not Levin's friend.
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF)
If only Clarissa had access to Gadgeteer wrenches.

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends)
Paralysis.
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5)
General respect check, could be argued.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky)
I let speed buffs / debuffs mess with FE doubling (I know Elf has said he's leery of that).  So Joshua opens with Clock Up EX.  I don't think Guy is killing in two hits even with a crit + noncrit off killing edge, and by then he's eaten a rain of doubled Shadow Spears, he can't evade all of them, then finish with the ITE Black Fang.

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)
I assume he's too tanky.
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)
Basilio 2HKOs Ashley (barely), so Ashley can't attack in to build FP, and getting attacked then FullClipping shouldn't KO the tanky Basilio.  Ashley can just shoot Basilio twice (and eat a Bow counter turn 1)?  But dunno how much I want to hype turn 2 ID off 40% odds.  Close match, though.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 08:50:43 AM »
Divinities

Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete): Me and HP buffering.
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier): GH is the kind of slow-but-really-nasty boss which Yuna dominates against.
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3): Emelious' magic damage is... not great.

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3): Evade.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea): I think so, at least. Lamington can't OHKO her and is physical-reliant so she can drain/Lucid Barrier her way out of any trouble.

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series): Pavise and counters. Really nasty draw for Levin.
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2): I really think so. Kurando has a slim, slim chance only if (a) he can 2HKO Shania despite the second hit being against Sanlittobel Tirawa, (b) Sanlittobel Tirawa doesn't lap him, (c) he isn't one-rounded by Sun Flare + physical, (d) his forward momentum isn't outdone by draining right away, (e) Shania can't escape a heal-lock with an immediate double, Sanlittobel + heal. In theory I should check one or more of these things but I'll be stunned if he passes every single test. He absolutely needs a quick win since he loses a long fight for any number of reasons (Shania's buffs, shallower SP pool, etc.)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF): Sacrifice is magic. ITD magic but that's really not enough for me, here.

Heroes

Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier): Pretty sure. Gen can't quite OHKO, and if he blocks ID then Rune is faster and should 2HKO.
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5): He's faster, and should 3HKO, or 4HKO if Albert goes dragoon on his second action... but Albert can't 2HKO / 3HKO if two of those attacks are in his dragoon form (Belcoot resists wind and is reasonably tanky). I could be wrong with my kneejerk of Belcoot's pdur, but I don't think so.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky): Kneejerk due to my not respecting Joshua's speed as much as the stat topic.

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile): Between some modest evasion and his good HP I highly doubt Jude kills him before he gets off a second turn, and Jude has no evade of his own to survive Lawfernoise.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad): Typing advantage and counters should give him this.
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2): Hum. Basilio's faster and 2HKOs. And since Ashley can't safely attack him due to counter/Counter, he'd need to get all the FP he needs from one Basilio attack... which simply isn't realistic.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12984
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 12:51:53 PM »
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) - SIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH, EBO.
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier) - GenocideHeart has some issues with Yuna even sans aeon conga - it simply -loathes- her thunder immunity. With aeons? C'mon n' join the joyride, everybody.
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3) - Emelious really doesn't like being physically reliant like he is against Loki.

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3) - Emily's a lot faster, dodges a lot and overwhelms Energy Sword with a hand tied behind her back.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia) - I... -think so-? Cress just has -so much- trouble getting past the barrier with the physical and elemental reliance. To make matters worse, nowadays I let Magus choose his preferred vulnerability and Cress has no real way of covering -all- the elements he needs to in order to punch past it. The 25% healing, of all things, and Cress' own elemental resists make the battle very sad and long-winded, but he probably runs out of TP before punching past Magus' HP. I'll take a closer look at this later, though, the elem resists -really- do matter and Magus MAY be fully walled here, which could give this to Cress. EDIT: Wait. Cress can buff and be able to punch past the above half HP phase well before running out of TP, at which point Magus is stuck casting Dark Matters... which get ABSORBED. GBA/PSX Cress has more trouble, though, since he can't immune Darkness, and he consumes -even more- resources (offensive buffing seriously nerfed, probably less TP, combos in ToPr -actually exist- and should be taken into the averages if considered, which makes his offense costlier).
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy) - EDIT: RIGHT, Ness -does- block Paralysis and Kary only 3HKOs him. Between that, healing and non-elemental damage, he holds out fine.

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle) - Uh I'm pretty sure Fogel can survive two Aya turns, especially considering the kind of damage she's left with post-Liberate (holy crap, 25~HKO PHYSICALS?). His magical durability is pretty solid.
Levin Brenton (Wild ARMs XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Counters and Levin. It impresses me how the dice enjoys ramming Levin into people who spoil his cancelling game.
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando Inugami (Shadow Hearts 2) - I'm with NEB. Intuitively, Kurando even passes a couple of those checks (particularly, his speed as Jutendouji is just -nuts-, so Shania never doubles him as long as he doesn't use Heavenquake as anything but a finisher. Of course, he can't even 2HKO post-Sanlittobel Tirawa with Heavenquake x2, and that has a 0.5x recharge rate...), but he needs to pass ALL OF THEM. I also can't imagine Shania fails to one-round him post-Sanlittobel, and even before... *mathmathmath.* Okay, Jutendouji Kurando is 0.99 mdur. Shania just one-rounds that with Rumble Roar+Sun Flare off a stock double hands off, that's 1.04 PC HP even before factoring combo bonuses and involves zero buffing. He's pretty much boned (and going for Tsukiyomi in case it has better mdur doesn't help either: in that case, Rumble Roar hits that 25% weakness and overcomes anything a pre-buffing SH2 defensive spread can muster).
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF) - Too bad W8 stacks -both- Innocent and infinite MDef. It usually hardly matters!

Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (SaGa Frontier) - Gen deals less than 70% PC HP, which is what you need to OHKO Rune, and needs to block ID to not explode to Negatis. Since yeah, BloodChalice makes him below average speed, Rune just 2HKOs with Legeon.
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5) - Actually, not so sure here. Belcoot, assuming his average physical damage and a Falcon Rune with no procs, eats 83% of Albert's HP... and Albert 3HKOs Belcoot (he's like 1.13 pdur) at base. And I think post-Dragoon, Belcoot needs more than one turn. But, between the odds of parrying, better procs and a Falcoon proc itself... eh, sure, still biting. This is oddly close, though!

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) - Yeah, modest evade screws Assault Buster up enough here.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad) - Type advantage! Counters! Smashy smashy!
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild ARMs 2) - I've seen you before.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 05:27:09 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 01:31:24 PM »
Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3)- Evade to stop a OHKO at the absolute worst.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)- Lamington's mgaic isn't scary.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy)

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)- FWIW Fogel's at 110% PC. I see Liberate as better than that though.
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs.Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF)- Clarissa... physical? No.

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends)- Status, yeah. Bad draw for Vyse.
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. ]Gen (Saga Frontier)
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2203
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 08:28:44 PM »
Divinities
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier) - conga line
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3) - Considering that even GL gets halved at base against Loki defense and Spirit Wail, while strong, is no GL uh no.

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3) - Dodges, has the smashiness.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia) - I'll bite.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy) - Blocks Hold, should be able to take it from there.

Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Levin against evade.
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2) - When in doubt agree with elfboy.
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF) - Auto-Innocent.

Heroes
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier) - Yep.
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5) - Just gonna go with the crowd on this one.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky) - Maybe I'll get around to finishing Trails but from what I've seen of Josh I doubt he takes this to me.

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) - Yeah that is a bit much for Jude to deal with.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad) - Think typematch just barely lets him survive a Lucian turn to me and of course he only *needs* to survive one.
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) - sure

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 02:47:36 AM »
Sorry, I meant to nom I just ran out of time!

Divinities

Piastol (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) vs. Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission)- Defense tank versus Piastol
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier)
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia)- GBA for me (And...just to be sure, someone may want to double check and make sure that those original version elemental equips are as good as the topic advertises)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)- Kinda of worried about Purim's MP holding out here. If she goes with magic, Lucent Beam is probably too expensive (she needs like 6 shots, which eats 48 MP, which only leaves enough for 4 Lucid Barriers). So she probably needs 8 (maybe 9) attacks to kill, which is 24 SP. She opens with Barrier, he uses magic. She uses Reflect, he uses a physical. In order to buy her 8 turns to attack, she needs 8 Barriers. That's 56 MP. 62 MP with the Reflect.  But given that she's taking like 14 attacks to kill, Reflect wears off, so that edge goes to him. She runs out of MP.

Also, she loses if he goes first period.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy)

Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)- Yeah, Kurando is just slightly out-matched here in most ways. She's an excellent staller, and unlike him, she can restore her SP or MP if necessary.
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF)

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends)- Looking at this half of the field, Maria is licking her chops at general lack of Paralysis protection.
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier)
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5)- Lolololol. Sorry, Albert is not close to the H/M with that speed and 40% average damage (and that's allowing starting SP).
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky)- Joshua doesn't really have much to deal with the evade.

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Katsuya Suou (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- ID. Katsuya is also generally struggling in an H/M field (Slow, very reliant on Blind, which admittedly at least gets him not far from the border overall).
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)- I don't think Basilio 2HKOs to me.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 08:54:03 PM by Dhyerwolf »
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12984
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 03:16:50 AM »
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia)- GBA for me (And...just to be sure, someone may want to double check and make sure that those original version elemental equips are as good as the topic advertises)

That I wouldn't worry about, I remember abusing absorptions and immunities pretty badly in-game. In the SNES version, they -are- as good as advertised, and they're a lot simpler than ToS's tiered resistances to boot. The problem is mostly that the Mumbane isn't DL-legal, Moria equips are pretty clearly aftergame. Gaia Armor was the armor I looked at for reference.

Quote from: Dhyerwolf
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)- Kinda of worried about Purim's MP holding out here. If she goes with magic, Lucent Beam is probably too expensive (she needs like 6 shots, which eats 48 MP, which only leaves enough for 4 Lucid Barriers). So she probably needs 8 (maybe 9) attacks to kill, which is 24 SP. She opens with Barrier, he uses magic. She uses Reflect, he uses a physical. In order to buy her 8 turns to attack, she needs 8 Barriers. That's 56 MP. 62 MP with the Reflect.  But given that she's taking like 14 attacks to kill, Reflect wears off, so that edge goes to him. She runs out of MP.

Considering each Lucent Barrier has nearly 2x PC HP, couldn't Purim also use a Fire Bouquet to nerf Lamington's attack and get more bang for her buck per shield? That spell was really potent at lowering enemy attack scores (as in, at least halving), unless Lamington immunes stat busts. -In fact-, she probably should use Flame Bouquet instead of Lucent Beam, less than half Lucent Beam's cost (3 to 8) and only loses 80 damage, which is considerably more cost-efficient. Not touching who goes first arguments here.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 03:18:35 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 03:18:21 AM »
Quote
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)- Kinda of worried about Purim's MP holding out here. If she goes with magic, Lucent Beam is probably too expensive (she needs like 6 shots, which eats 48 MP, which only leaves enough for 4 Lucid Barriers). So she probably needs 8 (maybe 9) attacks to kill, which is 24 SP. She opens with Barrier, he uses magic. She uses Reflect, he uses a physical. In order to buy her 8 turns to attack, she needs 8 Barriers. That's 56 MP. 62 MP with the Reflect.  But given that she's taking like 14 attacks to kill, Reflect wears off, so that edge goes to him. She runs out of MP.

Purim will be using the spells which make her physicals auto-critical and do nasty draining to save on MP. To be honest I'm not even sure she needs the anti-physical barrier (or Fire Bouquet, as Snow notes), but it does feel like it ices the fight. (Also, why would you see Lamington going first? He goes last in-game, and if you want to turn Disgaea initiative into some thing based on range, well, Purim wanting to buff first turn should beat him out.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 03:36:46 AM »
Divinities

Piastol (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) vs. Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission) - Don't remember Depth Dragoon at all, actually. Will need to stat topic.
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier) - Pink elephants Aeons on parade~
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3) - Evade and smash face in.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia) - GBA version, so.
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea) - The attack down fire spell clenches this out, yeah.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy) - Block para, it turns into a slugging match. Ness does what he does in slugging matches.

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle) - High powered non-elemental magic is about the only real hole in Fogel's defenses. Bad draw.
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series) - Goooooood luck getting any of those cancel strikes to land, kid.
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2) - Same game, better at it.
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF) - Not a good day for XF it seems.

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) - Sadness
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier) - Damned if he blocks ID, damned if he doesn't.
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5) - Have, uh, fun building SP against Belcoot's parry rate there.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky)

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) - Jude can tank through a fair amount, but not this.
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad) - SN type matchups give me a headache. Just gonna say Lucian makes him explode and call it a day, Odie has nothing resembling durability after all.
Katsuya Suou (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII) - Sure.
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) - Counters make FP gathering problematic.
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 05:09:51 AM »
Unless there is a different stat topic than Neph's that most people go off for Secret of Mana, Lucent Barrier is 600 HP absorb to a 527 HP average, so it falls very short of 2 PC HP mark.

I did consider Purim boosting her physical, but I thought that would lead her to very dangerous ground. First off, if she can avoid it, she would much rather hit Lamington's Mdef than his defense. Her magic also doesn't have to deal with his evade (normal lol Lamington evade, but against basic physicals, it's good). Most importantly, her physical will cause counters, which in turn will cause Lucent Barrier to fall so much more quickly. Since counter+Judgment will off the barrier, using physicals kind of ruins the defensive game. Fire Bouquet probably helps prevent the 2HKO on that end, but Lamington halving physicals+Lamington evading like 60% of the physicals+eating a counter every time she attacks strikes me as a very bad strategy.

Of course, all this and I realize that Reflect will reflect her positive spells onto Lamington and as such she can't use it. Certainly the draining helps a lot here, but that combo means that she needs 4 buffs before she can start getting her damage rolling.

On the plus side, she can use Sabers to hit Lamington's Ice weakness (if he gets that one) and potential Wind (if Lightning=Wind is a strong enough case). Granted, I don't know if you can have multiple Sabers at once (if not, then she has to pick between more damage and damage draining). Granted, for the reasons above, using physicals at all is a dicey proposition.
...into the nightfall.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 05:14:05 AM »
I also realized having seen SoM somewhat recently that spells have levels. No ideas what the spell levels are the in topic. Potentially a higher Lucent Barrier level would be the 2x PC HP? Alternately, those spells in the topic could be at max (Which may or may not be unrealistic? If they are and it's not realistic, obviously Purim is just worse in general overall and certainly sinks a lot in this matchup).
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 05:32:31 AM »
SoM: Neph's levels are level 6, per his damage average.  OK & RC's stats in the topics are at level 8.  Getting the last 2 levels takes a LOT of grinding so level 6 is fine by me - arguably should be even less for Dryad's spells as you have the least amount of time to grind them.  (But levels 1-4 come very fast, so this would knock Burst's damage to level 5 at worst.)

Reflect reflects all spells, positive & negative, yes.  However Flame Bouquet + Defender is *utterly ruinous* to physical beatdown, so Lamington really needs to have his magic damage hyped as a 2HKO to stand a shot here.  If Lamington's magic is a 3HKO, Purim just sets up with [Flame Bouquet or Defender] -> Heal -> Moon Saber -> LOL.

Re Magus / Cress: I can't really vote on ToP (only played the first ~2 hours), but don't forget that Masamune physicals don't trigger Magus's counters apparently per the stat topic, so there's a reasonable argument if you're okay with plot ties that Cress falling back to the Eternal Sword skips the counters, he does have a special time-sword that's comparable to the Masamune.  Flip side...  Magus might want to try and get away with using his PC form and spamming ID?  Cress has to close for Magus's ID to trigger though, and I have no idea how Cress's long-rage slugging holds up.  Sounds like PC Magus might be elementally-spoiled just as hard as boss Magus, though, so if Cress has any sort of range he can just never trigger the ID.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 05:36:36 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2014, 06:10:53 AM »
Just a note, the "Masamune doesn't trigger counters" thing only applies to basic physicals. I have no idea how ToP works but if it's like other Tales games, that's pretty lol. (As it is in CT!)

Also, unless I'm going crazy there were a bunch of ranged weapons in SoM (certainly more than one per PC if uniqueness is a concern) so counters shouldn't be a thing here. Also, I'm not really up for hyping Lamington's evade when it doesn't apply to techs which is how you do 100% of your physical damage in Disgaea; at best I might see it applying to the most basic of basic physicals of other games... so Purim just uses charged attacks instead. I probably don't even do that, granted; don't feel like rewarding Lamington for an irrelevant quirk. (Maybe I'd see it applying to basic physicals in games where techs actually exist... so, like, PS4's for instance. Sorry Raja!)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2014, 06:43:15 AM »
Divinities

Piastol (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) vs. Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier)
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3)
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy)


Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series)
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF)

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends)
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier)
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5)
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky)

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad)
Katsuya Suou (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12984
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2014, 12:10:57 PM »
Re Magus / Cress: I can't really vote on ToP (only played the first ~2 hours), but don't forget that Masamune physicals don't trigger Magus's counters apparently per the stat topic, so there's a reasonable argument if you're okay with plot ties that Cress falling back to the Eternal Sword skips the counters, he does have a special time-sword that's comparable to the Masamune.  Flip side...  Magus might want to try and get away with using his PC form and spamming ID?  Cress has to close for Magus's ID to trigger though, and I have no idea how Cress's long-rage slugging holds up.  Sounds like PC Magus might be elementally-spoiled just as hard as boss Magus, though, so if Cress has any sort of range he can just never trigger the ID.

I think Cress just OHKOs PC Magus, he has like 2x average damage physicals (their elemental reliance doesn't -really- matter against PC) and Magus be rather physically frail. Since Magus is also faster, Cress likely isn't at melee range for the ID either when he gets a turn. EDIT: Wait, underrated Magus pdur! Yeah, just a 2HKO. Nevermind. Granted, given Magus physical game, he likely just gets outslugged by Teleport, which can be long-range and puts Cress out of melee range when it ends anyway...

Also, regarding Lamington crap and evade against basic physicals: even -Randi- uses techs in SoM's damage average. In-game, techs are even good at bypassing evade due to large hitbox shenanigans (and things only -really- dodge when you use uncharged basic physicals outside of hitbox crap anyway). Evade that hits only base physicals deserves no credit ever against SoM physical games.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 01:34:51 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2014, 02:38:13 PM »
Divinities

Piastol (Skies of Arcadia: Legends) vs. Depth Dragoon (Mega Man X Command Mission)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete): Formchain!
Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier)
Loki (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Emelious de Pamela (Grandia 3)

Demigods

Claude (Star Ocean 2) vs. Emily Bell (Suikoden 3): Seems like she would be better at the physical slugging.
Magus (Chrono Trigger) vs. Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia)
Purim (Secret of Mana) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy): Blocks paralysis? Straightforward enough then, I think. Unless Kary 2HKOs...

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve) vs. Fogel (Ogre Battle)
Levin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Tibarn (Fire Emblem series): Evade and silly stats. Tibarn should be in Godlike.
Shania (Shadow Hearts 3) vs. Kurando (Shadow Hearts 2)
Worker 8 (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Clarissa (Wild Arms XF): Ouch.

Heroes

Maria Traydor (Star Ocean 3) vs. Vyse (Skies of Arcadia: Legends): Status resist/immune accessory?
Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier)
Albert Serdio (Legend of Dragoon) vs. Belcoot (Suikoden 5): Leading off the fight gives him too much of an advantage even if Albert can transform and use his magic turn 1.
Guy (Fire Emblem) vs. Joshua (Trails in the Sky): Guy's Res makes the status/ID like ~25% more likely.

Jude Maverick (Wild Arms 4) vs. Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile): Some mix of defend on threats of Justice Stream and offense?
Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) vs. Odie (Soul Nomad): Typing advantage?
Katsuya Suou (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment) vs. Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2014, 07:41:54 PM »
Closing this tomorrow, last call for votes.

Dark Holy Elf: Hey, CT berserk ring strats sorta worthwhile in Magus's castle, so if you're okay with giving up emergency healing / items, Frog can go on a green-red basic physical rampage, at least!

Pyro: If Vyse has such an accessory, it isn't in the stat topic...  (not saying it doesn't exist, of course.)

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2014, 08:22:55 PM »
Well, if you aren't using Marle you'll want Frog unberserked to punch through Magus' water weakness when it appears. If you are using Marle, then yeah maybe that's a kinda okay idea, but with Magus' counters (he'll counter a second swing from a Masamune if he hasn't barrier shifted since the last one) and competent damage I don't really think berserking a third of your party is a particularly great idea (and is a complete waste for the second half of the battle of course, as it is for the entire dungeon up to that point).

Obviously irrelevant, but!

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2014, 08:56:24 PM »
Switched my Lammy v Purim vote. If Defense Up is good, that probably clinches it.
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2014, 04:59:46 AM »
Closing this tomorrow, last call for votes.

Dark Holy Elf: Hey, CT berserk ring strats sorta worthwhile in Magus's castle, so if you're okay with giving up emergency healing / items, Frog can go on a green-red basic physical rampage, at least!

Pyro: If Vyse has such an accessory, it isn't in the stat topic...  (not saying it doesn't exist, of course.)

SoA lacks storebought status blockers besides Shards of Purity, which Vyse can't use.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

MalcolmMasher

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2014, 05:14:40 AM »
Divinities

Yuna (Final Fantasy X) vs. GenocideHeart (Saga Frontier)

Demigods

Ness (Earthbound) vs. Kary (Final Fantasy) - Kary needs a 2HKO, which isn't unreasonable since Ness has to lower his defense to block paralysis. Ness needs Kary to 3HKO, or HP to roll, or Power Shields to count Kary's attack sequence as one attack, or Flash to status her on turn one (she's weak against Mind status; high Mdef, granted). Or even for us to allow EB PSI to be usable normally under FF1 Paralyze, as it is under EB Paralyze. I buy at least two of those. Kid's got this.

Heroes

Rune Walsh (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Gen (Saga Frontier) - The stat topic doesn't list any QUI modifier on the BloodChalice, and as an accessory it won't crowd out a PoweredSuit. If the idea is that it costs so much that he'd have to ditch the PoweredSuit, Gen has the option of dropping the ZeroSword instead and going with his unique event-given CometBlade. Or BabelCrumble, even. What am I missing here?

Basilio (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs. Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2)

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Shift Tourney 2: Week 1
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2014, 06:24:28 AM »
I personally don't allow statusblocking accessories to be used for "free" and essentially assign a stat penalty based on a storebought accessory that would have to be kicked out to use the statusblocker in-game. In the case of Saga Frontier the best general-purpose storebought accessory is the Wing Amulet (+5 speed) and giving that up costs him the speed he needs.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,5891.msg135471.html#msg135471 if you're interested.

Now while I'm not about to drop this view, as I do consider it better than the "free lunch" statusblocker situation (using a confuse-blocker in FF6 sucks because you have to drop an Earring/etc., the DL should reflect this), it really is a bit of a patch-job to what I view as the core problem, which is claiming that accessory slots should be empty by default (unreflective of in-game and if taken literally creates really silly situations like Locke/Gogo getting credit for Sneak Ring's speed-boosts when you'd never ever equip those for the speed boost in-game thanks to RunningShoes and other good options)... but redoing all stat topics to fill all said accessory slots is far, far more trouble than it is worth (and somewhat contraversial since obviously there are people who disagree with me and think Sneak Ring hype is a-okay). In this case though, it should be noted that Gen would still have a free accessory slot for a speed-boost, though, an advantage over mystics/mecs (who currently fill all their equip slots)... but then again monsters have four such free slots so I don't think a little extra hype there will be enough.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.