Author Topic: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics  (Read 1972 times)

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5583
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« on: October 13, 2014, 06:00:09 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III)
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2014, 06:06:16 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)- Kyo is good but Reicher is nuts.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III)
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)- Man surely he has this, he has way more HP.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- Strong kneejerk.

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)- Slaughter.
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)- Also a slaughter.
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vsRudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vsRoxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)

Light

Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)- Dolls I remember as being awful.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)- Charge up damage hype?!
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2014, 06:28:37 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)- I guess?
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III)- Might be the only vote this way, but the way I see Violetta, she has a decent selection of elemental magic (plus lack of Dark Wave respect)+speed
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)- Defense
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)- Gut reaction
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- Stone just work it's magic here, I think?

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)- Karin...yeah, may just miss the 3HKO.
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)

Light

Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)- Randi doesn't really deal with healing all that well (Charge damage is not efficient in terms of time needed to charge versus extra damage done. Unless Randi OHKOs, it's not great against healers)
...into the nightfall.

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2014, 06:50:00 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon) - Pay attention or you'll die
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) - Don't think Celes is quite up for this.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III) - Think so at any rate.

Heavy

Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III) - Probably, Kornell's magic damage ain't that great.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V) - Don't think I'm willing to hype either Firaga Sword or Drain Sword that hard here.

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts) - Surely.
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Surely.
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) - Should power through.
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - Should survive a hasted physical.

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade) - Algus isn't too bad on damage when he leaves, he can handle Cecilia.
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Andre isn't too bad and I do think I give Fake Ring some respect, so surely he has this.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4) - Asia is so bad against mages.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2014, 12:47:11 PM »
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon) - Actually should survive two Kyogre turns, which is kinda nuts. Holy hell.
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Chere (Final Fantasy VI) - Celes wishes she got Cure 2.
Fou-Lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III) - Violetta HP is so obscenely bad that even a considerably neutered Dark Wave (she DOES instadouble, after all) should OHKO her ass.
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - I see Lady's chain breaking through X-Heart's auto-life and she even happens to go first. Explosions.

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series) - Know your place, Margulis, Wugui.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III) - 2HKOs first.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V) - That's -a lot- of HP MK has to chew through and the physical resistance renders any Drain Sword strategy pretty useless. Even with Aegis Shield evade and Firaga Sword theoretics, this feels a bit of a tall mountain to climb.
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission) - I'm fairly sure Rufus can land a kill with a Stony Decree setup before letting Zero get a turn on average.

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts) - Alice has no real answer to the limit healing game.
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - I -think- so. He should 2HKO Lucca and she can't really handle a limit either, not with his far higher than average Crisis level.
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) - Ow ow ow.
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - Ninja needs three turns to kill Roxis no matter what, which usually entails bad things when you're dealing with him.

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade) - sure why not
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Bard's damage is -horrendous- and Blood Harp gets outpaced by Andre offense.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4) - They 2HKO each other... but Black Wizard goes first. WELP.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana) - Cinnamon being faster pretty much seals this in her favor. She only 4HKOs, but so does Randi post-Iron Maiden and that's frankly enough.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:50:19 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2014, 10:48:45 PM »
Pretty straightforward matches this week...
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III)
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series) - Oh god, what is this.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) - I guess she misses the 2HKO?
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 03:58:58 AM »
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III) - I guess.

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series) - Takes awhile, because some of Margulis's best damage is neutered too, but he should have this.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III) - My Kornell respect is a bit higher than the DL Average what with his turn 1 OHKO off multiacting hype, buuut too much of it is physical, and Kary solidly 2HKOs, so yeah.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V) - Am I missing something here?  Fire Sword -> knock Chocobo Eater on his ass repeatedly until he falls off the cliff.  Or, if worried about the Blizzard counters, just wait until he gets back up, then knock him down again.  CE can't KO in 2 actions either, and he loses all his turns once he falls into the knockdown loop (which a team full of Lulus spamming Fire could easily pull off).  Now throw in that allegedly FFX bosses are slightly slower on the first turn than the stat topic might indicate, and it's already nearly a tie, and now MK is maybe going first and now doesn't even care about Blizzard nonsense.
EDIT: So apparently MK's damage is worse than I thought here, even if I suspect it isn't as bad as Elf claims below.  Oh well.

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Well since Fire Cross is apparently non-elemental, sure.
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade) - I'm amused looking at Elf's old notes that he considered (at the time) boss Algus less than legal, which for me seems way more iconic than an uncontrollable Squire who is probably turned into Something Else anyway...  anyway I only vote boss Algus, but would probably tamp down expected PC HP, which makes his damage better relatively.  And it doesn't matter, a 4HKO to average + doubling (because everyone doubles Cecilia) should handle her pretty easily with a 3HKO (Cecilia only gets in 1 attack & 1 counter, lolnope).  Now how come no one named Jack is in this week...
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:37:06 AM by SnowFire »

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 04:11:10 AM »
I don't get your vote on Algus vs. Cecilia, Snowfire. Your reasoning favors Algus, but you're voting her. >_>
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 04:15:32 AM »
Bolded the wrong dueler is all!

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 04:21:37 AM »
I'm really not sure why you'd force Algus into his boss form and not Seifer, as Algus is actually a PC for more than ~2% of the game. (Yeah, yeah, you don't control him, but you see every detail of his stats/skillset, and nobody complains about Delita or Umaro being ranked.) For all that yes, it doesn't matter this week, and doesn't matter tooo much in general as long as you give him plenty of support credit, which you apparently do.

For Chocobo Eater, I think you're missing the fact that he's armoured (takes 1/3 physical damage)? Assuming you see Firaga Spellblade as doing 3x damage here (FFX weakness is normally 1.5x, FF5's is 2x->4x when using Firaga Spellblade, I'd call that "do double damage in addition to existing weakness"), then weakness and armour completely cancel out so MK does her normal base physical damage which is like a 7HKO, so like 4% of Chocobo Eater's HP? That takes three swings just to knock down (minimum, I haven't crunched the numbers so it may be four). The correct analog isn't a team of Lulus, it's a team of Tiduses using using Flamestrike weapons, which would distinctly -not- work. I guess you could view MK physicals as ignoring FFX armour but I see no reason to do this. Maaaybe FF5 knight swords could do it (if you see those as more like Auron's weapons than Tidus') but MK explicitly misses those so I'd definitely see Tidus as the correct analog.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 04:28:15 AM »
Regarding Chocobo Eater... hmmmm. Chocobo Eater can attempt to push back himself and he's actually faster than MK (113% average, MK is 110%), and any - any - damage done to MK sticks. Not to mention that, even under my scaling, Chocobo Eater's effective pdur against non-piercing physicals is somewhere in the realm of 9.5x PC HP and you can't stunlock Chocobo Eater indefinitely (. I'd also take MK's effective Firaga Sword damage as against CE's weakness (1.5x) rather than FFV weakness (2x), which also pimps down the damage. And, even taking Chocobo Eater HP at my scaling and using the 5712 figure for MK's Firaga Sword damage, she actually misses the 12% HP threshold in a single hit by a bit, which means Chocobo Eater can stave off the Push game himself as effectively as MK can (and CE's Push is ITE to boot, so Aegis doesn't help).
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2014, 04:50:25 AM »
Elf: Hey, I'm not particularly happy with Seifer's PC form either per earlier chat in the DL, but at least it's fairly constant.  Algus getting Armor Break and the like, then using it intelligently, is not gonna happen in FFT, and at least for me is very unlikely to stay as a Squire anyway (at least DL Ramza usually reverts to Squire again by endgame...).  As an additional point of humiliation, I'm not sure how many random battles are worth baking in for the very short time PC Algus exists, but since he can't participate in them, there's a solid argument he should also be underlevel by some amount.  Headache, all for a Squire.  Meh.

As for CE, eh, I think I'd kneejerk the HP as less these days (weird because I remember complaining that your HP figures were too generous for FFX bosses before...), but something weird is up - if I calculate right, MK's Firaga physical is .86 PCHP damage (5712 / 2670 * .4).  If Armored & weakness cancel each other out, then that just leaves raw Def hype, which lowers it a little to .71 PCHP, but that's 20% of CE's HP, not 4%.  Again...  am I missing something?

EDIT: Jo'ou, per my above comments - Elf stated awhile back somewhere (the Dungeon, I believe?) that all the boss speeds are worse than they look on turn 1.  So CE is probably more like 104% average speed on the first turn, and he's not going to catch up fast enough to insta-double after ceding the first turn to MK.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 04:59:32 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 05:02:08 AM »
5712 is with 4x ITD damage baked in, but as per my and Snow's comments I'd only take Firaga Spellblade as "take existing weakness, then double it" which is just 3x, no ITD, here. After thirding that due to armour that's 1x, so 1078 = 7HKO to average = ~21HKO to Chocobo Eater. That's 4.5% of Chocobo Eater's HP before his Def. Even if you keep the ITD in there (it's a property of FF5 elemental weaknesses, so debatable), that's 6%.


Re Algus, I'd be fine with tossing out Helmet/Armour Break, as they're things he may well not get in-game... certainly he isn't going to get his entire skillset. Same with tossing out Gafgarion's Dark Sword, etc. And allowing them doesn't make too much difference anyway because they're not very good, either in-game or in the DL. But the base Squire is completely legitimate. Personally I'm not sure why you'd change him out of Squire, as his special Squire job has pretty solid stats and most other jobs are either things he does very badly (magic, due to male MA + low faith + going before enemies) or things you have to splurge on lots of storebought equipment for (bow for an archer, heavy armour for a knight). But even if you do that just puts him in the same boat as every other FFT human PC, many of whom are likely to leave their base job at some point in the game.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 05:34:03 AM »
Checking...  yeah, seems MK can't equip FF5 Katanas, which have Piercing in FFX.  Oh well.  (I'd be pretty liberal about handing out Piercing to other casts though in general, you have it on 2/7 characters in FFX, and 2/5 of the characters who are primarily fighters, and can customize it on more.  It isn't exactly hard to avoid getting spoiled in-game.  But Tidus does seem the accurate analogy here, unfortunately for MK.)

I misread the stat topic, I thought that damage was before other enemy weakness.  I haven't extensively thought about how these weaknesses would intersect, and 4% of CE's HP still sounds way too low even with Armored hype, but sure, it's probably enough reduction to beat the 12% mark, and MK does need a lock to win.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 05:48:59 AM »
The reason it sounds low is because you're probably kneejerking that MK's base damage isn't that bad. It really is bad, even with the slightly DL questionable Enhancer. (Pipe Dreamer's old stat topic gave her less than half the damage she has now, since the best storebought/unique sword is from world 2.) Untwinked FF5 physicals are like untwinked FF6 physicals, kinda laughable in the DL damage curve (and in-game, honestly).

EDIT: For what it's worth I'd agree with you about being generous with Piercing, and would generally try to aim for 28-40% of other casts to have it. Note that I was reasonably willing to hype knight swords as doing it, along with of course katanas and spears, and FF5 axes/flails even have a def-quartering property I'd see as piercing). But you came to the same conclusion I did: MK's physicals are pretty clearly of the non-piercing variety.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:50:31 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2014, 11:41:28 PM »
Would plain old Flare Sword due the trick, if you see it beating out Armor?

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2014, 11:56:48 PM »
Looks like it falls just short. (I wouldn't see it ignoring armour anyway, as it doesn't ignore Protect, and no FFX skills change a weapon's attacks to piercing so I see no reason to extend that to other games. YMMV obviously.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2014, 12:07:54 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III)
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5583
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2014, 09:05:56 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III)
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)- *shakes fist*
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2014, 04:10:41 PM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon) - Too durable. Good show Reicher, tanking Kyogre turns is not easy.
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III) - Kneejerk
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series) - Isn't spoiled = usually wins vs. Wugui.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III) - Easy enough.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V) - I'll let ITD stuff through the Armored type in FFX. Other games don't really have an analogue, and iirc FFX Piercing weapons don't go through Protect either, so the Armored type = Protect for not getting pierced by ITD doesn't fly with me. If I'm wrong about that and Auron's weapons do in fact go through the Protect spell(was there one in FFX? I think there was.) then feel free to correct me~
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission) - Apparently I don't remember what Rufus can do at all.

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts) - IP Healing, sure.
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Not feeling Seifer respect at the moment.
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) - More damaging and durable.
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - Going to assume some manner of timed card shenanigans can deal with Ninja.

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Don't remember Andre
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana) - I really wish he were better in the DL somehow.
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2014, 05:36:32 PM »
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Don't remember Andre

Giant pink cat? Unless you mean gameplay, which fair.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Twilkitri

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1207
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2014, 06:30:58 AM »
Godlike

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)

Middle

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2014, 05:08:35 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Kyogre (Pokémon): Tanks a couple Waterspouts like a champ.
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI): Celes doesn't block sleep and probably can't tank through his offence anyway.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Violetta (Grandia III): A very close fight if you see Violetta's damage reduction affecting breaths, a slaughter if you don't. Not enough time left to math out the former, so let's go with the latter.
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series): Margulis' physical damage wasn't THAT bad... was it?
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Kornell (Grandia III): Strong kneejerk. I don't remember Kornell having great magic damage and he's probably 2HKOed.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V): As per previous math, MK damage is kinda bad so he can't manage a lock even with hype I don't agree with (piercing Flare Spellblade).
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission): Faster, survives a single Zero turn, Stony Decree combos should work their magic from there.

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts): Runs her out of SP.
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII): Boss Seifer. He's bad.
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs): Way more damage.
Ninja (Final Fantasy) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis): I think?

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade): Doubles and should live long enough from others' calculations.
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics): Bard is horrible.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4): Asia's only good for spoiling fighters.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Randi (Secret of Mana): Might be underestimating Randi's healer-busting, but Cinn is pretty good for her first few turns which are all she'll need here.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5583
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 1: Mostly back to basics
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2014, 05:17:35 AM »
Godlike

Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)- iiiiiiiii vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)- iiiiiiii vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)- iiiiiiiii vs Violetta (Grandia III)- i
X (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- iiiiiii

Heavy

Wugui (Shadow Hearts) vs Margulis (Xenosaga Series)- iiiiiiii
Kary (Final Fantasy)- iiiiiiii vs Kornell (Grandia III)- ii
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X)- iiiiiiii vs Mystic Knight (Final Fantasy V)- ii
Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)- iiiiii vs Zero (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- i

Middle

Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals)- iiiiiiiii vs Alice Elliot (Shadow Hearts)- i
Lucca Ashtear (Chrono Trigger)- iii vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)- iiiiiii
Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)- iiiiiiiiii
Ninja (Final Fantasy)- i vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)- iiiiiiii

Light

Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiiiii vs Cecilia (Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade)
Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- iiiiiiii vs Bard (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy)- iiiiiiiii vs Asia (Wild ARMs 4)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- iiiii vs Randi (Secret of Mana)- i
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.