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Author Topic: What Games are you playing 2015?  (Read 231210 times)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1200 on: May 17, 2015, 08:13:31 PM »
Overwatch stun rate seems to clock in at anywhere from 33 to 50% (certainly higher than Tom's stun, but hardly reliable). Feels primarily like a way to occasionally cancel an enemy turn, and Tiger Lily of all people would likely get the most out of it due to healing. Some PCs badly wish stun carried over to the following phase.

EDIT: some minor further testing also points to me that the most common enemy crit multiplier is somewhere along the lines of 1.67x (always remembering: all the mults stack). Seriously considering using that as the mult for the complete equation - at first, I considered using a 1 multiplier for the sake of simplicity, but that seriously underrates crit potency and this mult only applies to the PCs. I mean, in-game you'd never see Tom dealing less damage on a crit than on a normal move even with a Scout Boiler, but that'd be what happens in the DL if I chose that venue, which would also seriously inflate the Ninja Boiler for all Light class PCs.

EDIT2: So, uh, I think Tom's natural Punch Gun odds stack with overwatch stun odds. In addition to that, his Punch Gun actually stunlocks, since it doesn't seem to break stun like other weapons do. That actually can lead him to hilariously, -hilariously- damaging strings if he gets a stun going early.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 09:02:36 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1201 on: May 18, 2015, 01:00:14 AM »
Agreed Reiska, but the human girls are extra impossibly gorgeous

You might want to (or might not want to) jump back into DL IRC to hook up with regulars there Fen.  Meeple has recently started playing and I know Laggy et al still play.
I dunno, I am super casual about playing this + on euro servers

Here is how I view each class I've gotten so far:
Marauder: The marauder has an axe. I like axes. Nice support skills with the HP leech, damage debuff and defense buff. Low accuracy and high damage. The usual stuff.
Fisherman: Is this a real thing or an elaborate joke?
Arcanist: Arcanist is probably the best class (It has a familiar. And POIZN) but it has less damage than Marauder and I can't be bothered to learn the entire familiar skillset / deal with familiar AI.
Rogue: This is a generic thief with dual daggers, it is not called Rouge and by the way rougelikes don't exist

Targeting sucks on PS4, I'm never going to get used to this.


Dragon Age: Inquisition Symphony - I dunno what you are talking about with this game Fenrir.  This is practically Demons's Souls's 2.  The controls suck and climbing up ladders is the slowest thing in the history of ever.  I could catch an elevator on the Citadel faster than those.
What have I done to you, why are you doing this to me
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 01:06:30 AM by Fenrir »

Magic Fanatic

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1202 on: May 18, 2015, 01:31:21 AM »
Fisherman: Is this a real thing or an elaborate joke?

All the crafting and gathering classes have their own unique class, rather than just being something to do in your battle classes.

Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1203 on: May 18, 2015, 01:40:31 AM »
I hope fisherman is the most monotonous one
I don't want to do a fishing minigame that's as elaborate as Pokemon Blue's for 100 hours to get to max level

Captain K

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1204 on: May 18, 2015, 02:06:51 AM »
Angler was the first Life I mastered in Fantasy Life!  Repetitive minigames for the win.

Nitori

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1205 on: May 18, 2015, 03:28:28 AM »
It's basically impossible to make a female character of *any* race not look at least somewhat attractive in FFXIV, yeah.  Even Roegadyn, to an extent.

Especially Roegadyn.

Bravely Default: this game is hard on hard, a giant floating brain 2x overkilled me. Time to grind for more Angelic Wards?
<Ko-NitoriisSulpher> roll 1d100 to grade Nitori?
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Ko-NitoriisSulpher rolls 1d100 to grade Nitori? and gets 100." [1d100=100]

Meeplelard

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1206 on: May 18, 2015, 04:08:06 AM »
Resonance of Fate: So apparently I finished Chapter 5 at about 11 hours in.  I finished Chapter 7 at just under 22 hours.  yes, I doubled my playtime in 2 chapters, I blame the moronic hex system which required me to literally grind for quite a while just to get stuff...oh and Chapter 6 being complete and total bullshit.

I did accidentally read spoilers, gameplaywise, that the next area apparently is going to have Poison; luckily the game showed what Poison does this time arond and...yeah, I'm not gonna wanna be hit by that.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1207 on: May 18, 2015, 01:41:56 PM »
Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara - Man, Tower of Doom isn't very good.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Captain K

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1208 on: May 19, 2015, 12:45:33 AM »
I actually prefer it to the sequel, Shadow over Mystara has too much random item crap and worse controls.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1209 on: May 19, 2015, 12:50:42 AM »
Man, I felt the controls in Shadow Over Mystara were orders of magnitudes better. Tower of Doom controls like a drowsy tank in general and the hitboxes are wonky as fuck. The excess random crap is a point, but Tower of Doom isn't really much better about it and its gameplay isn't even a pale shadow of its successor.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Reiska

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1210 on: May 19, 2015, 01:24:13 AM »
Shadow Over Mystara is definitely the better game, yes.  But Tower of Doom is okay at least.

FF4TAY PC

Now, Lunarians' Tale!

We start by raiding a sleeping Lunarian dude's porn stash.  Yes, there really is a hidden Lustful Lali-ho in the Chamber of Sleep.  The chapter's Adamantite also comes early, in B10 of the Lunar Subterrane (before we even start seeing combats).  Fusoya's max MP was boosted from 190 to 390 in this version, a very good and needed change from the original.  (His tiny MP pool was stupid in original FF4, let alone TAY.)

With Fusoya's boosted MP, you're much more free to pretty much just nuke every single random with Quake, so that's exactly what I did.  Mysterious Girl got Slowed as usual then crumpled under Flare and Bio spam. 

Lair of the Father wasn't too bad either.  Randoms died to a sneeze, Count Malboros or whatever died to a Bio and a couple Flares.  They could put up something of a fight though, I had to bother Slowing them, so that's something.

Killing the Mysterious Girl is really cathartic, so yay for getting to do it twice.

With that, another trip through the Lunar Subterrane (which actually puts up a fight), and then we blow Zeromus' Malice up with Double Black Magic.  Tale complete!

Ceodore's Tale: Clear time 3:33, levels - Hooded Man 24, Ceodore 25
Rydia's Tale: Clear time 4:09, levels - Luca 25, Rydia 26
Yang's Tale: Clear time 2:17, levels - Yang 21, Ursula 20
Porom's Tale: Clear time 2:44, levels - Porom 22
Palom's Tale: Clear time 3:49, levels - Palom 27, Leonora 25
Edge's Tale: Clear time 3:10, levels - Edge 27, Gekkou 20, Zangetsu 21, Izayoi 19, Tsukinowa 24
Edward's Tale: Clear time 2:40, levels - Edward 23, Harley 14
Kain's Tale: Clear time 2:34, levels - Kain 30, Ceodore 30, Rosa 30, Cid 30
The Lunarians' Tale: Clear time 2:57, levels - Golbez 40

Lunarians' Tale in-game use:

Golbez: 8/10.  There's very little not to like here.  Osmose to keep his MP topped off, Bio is a great offensive spell (and during a Waxing Moon, handily OHKOs a lot of the opposition), he can rock decent physical attacks too, and of course, he has solid durability (though not foolproof).
Fusoya: 9.5/10.  Full White/Black magic list with 390 MP, equally good durability to Golbez.  There isn't a random in this chapter that survives a Quake.  Only reason he's not 10/10 is because of the lack of a credible physical option, really.

Reiska

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1211 on: May 19, 2015, 06:18:43 AM »
The After Years saga continues with...

Final Fantasy IV - The After Years: The Crystals ~ Planet Eater

We import this data.

Ceodore's Tale: Clear time 3:33, levels - Hooded Man 24, Ceodore 25
Rydia's Tale: Clear time 4:09, levels - Luca 25, Rydia 26
Yang's Tale: Clear time 2:17, levels - Yang 21, Ursula 20
Porom's Tale: Clear time 2:44, levels - Porom 22
Palom's Tale: Clear time 3:49, levels - Palom 27, Leonora 25
Edge's Tale: Clear time 3:10, levels - Edge 27, Gekkou 20, Zangetsu 21, Izayoi 19, Tsukinowa 24
Edward's Tale: Clear time 2:40, levels - Edward 23, Harley 14
Kain's Tale: Clear time 2:34, levels - Kain 30, Ceodore 30, Rosa 30, Cid 30
The Lunarians' Tale: Clear time 2:57, levels - Golbez 40

Roughly speaking, my course of action is this, with picking up all of the Small Tails scattered in between:
* Get the Diamond Armor
* Dive into the Agart Subterrane for a bit to get Luca the Ogrekiller
* Get the Mage Masher (I burn a Bronze Hourglass on this fight)
* Get the Luminous Robe
* Get the Ribbon (Armor Construct gets Stopped by Rydia then blown up with Golbez's Thundaga and Big Throws from Luca)
* Get the Chocobo summon back
* Get the Black Belt Gi (Grand Malboro gets Stopped by Rydia then blown up with Lightning Brain Buster spam)
* Loot Damcyan and get Harley
* Loot Fabul
* Go to Kaipo, get Yang and Ursula, and max out Spider's Silk while I have the chance, and also get Sylph back on Rydia
* Loot Eblan and get Ifrit back on Rydia
* Loot the Lodestone Cavern and rescue Palom and Leonora and get Shiva back on Rydia
* Go to Mysidia, rescue Porom and get Ramuh back on Rydia
* Go to Agart and get Titan back on Rydia.
* Finally, loot Cave of Eblan and exchange our 21 small tails for stuff.
* Then, after all of that, go to Mist and get the Mist Dragon summon back on Rydia.

However, I have a dilemma - two really, and they're closely intertwined: what do I want to get with those 21 small tails, and whom do I ultimately want to use as my final party?  Obviously the final party choice will to an extent dictate what tail exchanges I want, and possibly also what adamant set pieces I want later.

Choices, choices...

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1212 on: May 19, 2015, 12:07:50 PM »
Final Fantasy IV - The After Years: The Crystals ~ Planet Eater
Ceodore's Tale: Clear time 3:33, levels - Hooded Man 24, Ceodore 25
Rydia's Tale: Clear time 4:09, levels - Luca 25, Rydia 26
Yang's Tale: Clear time 2:17, levels - Yang 21, Ursula 20
Porom's Tale: Clear time 2:44, levels - Porom 22
Palom's Tale: Clear time 3:49, levels - Palom 27, Leonora 25
Edge's Tale: Clear time 3:10, levels - Edge 27, Gekkou 20, Zangetsu 21, Izayoi 19, Tsukinowa 24
Edward's Tale: Clear time 2:40, levels - Edward 23, Harley 14
Kain's Tale: Clear time 2:34, levels - Kain 30, Ceodore 30, Rosa 30, Cid 30
The Lunarians' Tale: Clear time 2:57, levels - Golbez 40
Choices, choices...

Oooh, if you're taking suggestions, I'd like to see a party breakdown something like this:
1 Top-tier character (Edge, fully-decked Palom, fully-decked Cecil/Ceo, Ursula)
1 'Project' character (Rydia, Leonora, Edward)
1 Mid-tier character (Yang, non-decked Palom/Cecil/Ceo, Golbez)
2 Failures (Eblan Four, Harley, Cid, Luca, Calcabrina)

No White Mages or Kain because White Mages are boring and Kain is Kain. Use the healing skills the rest of the cast has!
*Ursula/Yang/Cid/Luca might be misplaced, I can't remember them that well.

Meeplelard

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1213 on: May 19, 2015, 12:08:58 PM »
Man, I felt the controls in Shadow Over Mystara were orders of magnitudes better. Tower of Doom controls like a drowsy tank in general and the hitboxes are wonky as fuck. The excess random crap is a point, but Tower of Doom isn't really much better about it and its gameplay isn't even a pale shadow of its successor.

I don't remember Tower of Doom's controls being worse, but the Shadow Over Mystara was a much better game nonetheless.  There was a lot more you could do in the game, areas were better designed and less monotonous (I remember Tower of Doom feeling very...samey throughout.)

So yeah, really don't get how anyone can say ToD > SOM.



Quote
Oooh, if you're taking suggestions, I'd like to see a party breakdown something like this:
1 Top-tier character (Edge, fully-decked Palom, fully-decked Kain/Ceo, Ursula)
1 'Project' character (Rydia, Leonora, Edward)
1 Mid-tier character (Yang, non-decked Palom/Cecil/Ceo, Golbez)
2 Failures (Eblan Four, Harley, Cid, Luca, Calcabrina)

Fixed that for you.  I don't mean to be ironic or silly here; Kain is the "alternative" to Ceodore, not Cecil.  Yes, he can use Lunarian stuff, but being able to use Lances and Blink/Haste more than make up for it.  Add in Cecil spends a large part of the game being absolute garbage, and likely underleveled as a result, he's Mid-tier at best.

I also don't know how Rydia is a project but Palom is top tier.  Palom gets spells a little earlier, but not tremendously so; they're very similar otherwise.  By extension, Gekkou should be Mid-Tier, not Failures like his sentai crewmates.  He's a workable HP Tank who can do reasonable damage thanks to Throw.  He's not amazing, but I can see getting reasonable milleage out of him. 

Also not sure how Golbez is "mid-tier"; he's kind of really good throughout most of the end game, only sort of tapering off near the end, and even then, he's got high enough magic damage, considerably more health than other Black Mages (at cost of less variety), and has an actual physical. 

Honestly, while she does qualify as "project" Leonora feels closer in the failure tier.  She's not catching up to Porom or Rosa, the other healers, and despite getting Black Magic, she's worse offensively than both because they learn Holy at a reasonable level.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 12:16:18 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1214 on: May 19, 2015, 03:16:48 PM »
Gonna second Meeple: having used all three, the idea that Cecil is a tier higher than Golbez or Rydia, the two best PCs in the game in that order IMO, is indeed pretty crazy.

Also white mages are some of the least boring PCs in the cast, they can do lots of stuff! Certainly more interesting than Edward, who is pretty much a white mage who can only heal. Using neither a white mage nor Edward is seriously hamstringing yourself, so I suppose that's "not boring" by some definition but meh.


Mega Man various - I've been running through different games trying to get the weapons in roughly the reverse order of how useful they are, and then focusing on the least useful weapons to see if I've been underrating them at all. Some notes...

MM2- assumed order: Heat < Bubble < Quick <  Flash < Crash < Air < Wood < Metal

Atomic Fire: Is absolutely awful, no questions asked. Slow to charge, the midcharge is hard to use even if it were any good (and it almost never is), and watching it tink against things (at the cost of 10 WE) is horrid.
Bubble Lead: Too many things resist it, and it's too slow. Still, way better than Atomic Fire; it is sometimes useful if things are below you and there are a few places it performs quite well (like the rabbits in Wood Man's stage).
Quick Boomerang: Buster replacement which hits harder against a few things (and less hard against others but that's okay). Nothing really new here; I do like that it's a credible option against hoppers.

MM3- assumed order: Spark < Snake < Needle < Hard < Gemini < Shadow < Top < Magnet

Spark Shock: Well you can use it to freeze hoppers and then walk under them. Aside from that this is total trash. Lots of enemies are kinda hard to freeze in places where you don't run into them, and you can't switch weapons until all frozen enemies leave the screen making it just completely useless in many places you have to walk past enemies. I don't know if this or Atomic Fire is worse. Probably Atomic Fire? Gross.
Search Snake: Actually performed slightly better than my expectations, certainly better than Bubble, since it's faster than Bubble and climbs walls. Especially when enemies are on accessable platforms above you it can perform quite well, shoutouts for dealing with the needle-shooters and the guys who throw tops. Some levels it just sucks, though, and it still has a bunch of Bubble's problems of course.
Needle Cannon: On the other hand, this seems to be literally the buster against everything that isn't a boss. Also the height variation works against it, so it's worse. Now definitely below Snake to me, unlike Quick this fails to find any real niche. Ugh. Still owns Spark because what doesn't.
Hard Knuckle: I really wasn't sure where to go from here, but ended on deciding on Hard as the next worst. Going to have to say that's justified, the weapon is damaging but often so cumbersome that the damage isn't worth it. Certainly better than the weapons below it, but I found much more use for everything above as usual.

MM8: Clown < Frost < Grenade < Tengu; then, Sword < Aqua < Search < Astro

Different format here of course. Anyway I have virtually nothing bad to say about the first set of weapons; they're all great. Thunder Claw is the worst due to the range limitations but it's still damaging and really useful against a lot of things, Ice Wave is ridiculously better than the previous ground-crawlers, it's like Snake if it was rarely immuned (seriously, aren't flying enemies enough?) and did lots of damage. Can't spam it but oh well.

Flame Sword: The one legitimately bad weapon in the game, though not nearly as bad as the worst MM2-3 weapons. It's short-range! And... not as damaging as you might think, failing to OHKO the monkey enemies stands out, and you have to land hits very solidly to OHKO even relatively fragile enemies.
Water Balloon: Sorta the game's "boring buster replacement" weapon, except it does notably outpace uncharged buster shots so there's that. By contrast to Flame Sword, really good at taking out monkeys.

MM9- Concrete < Magma < Tornado < Plug < Hornet < Splash < Jewel < Galaxy

Concrete Shot: Is bad. Why does this crap cost 2 WE for a weapon with a bad trajcetory and causes enemies to not drop items. The platforms it creates are occasionally useful, but you have to move fast, and it is reasonably damaging against some things (but only some) such as a the Magma Dragon mini-boss. Still, being clunky to use offsets even that advantage, typically.
Magma Bazooka: Well Concrete is really the only bad weapon here. Magma's a bit boring but hahaha, it's like Atomic Fire but ridiculously better. Uses way less WE (half a point for the basic shot, 4 for the full charge), gets two extra blasts, doesn't tink as much, does crazy damage if fully-charged at melee (e.g. takes out hoppers in one go). Possibly not second worst? It's hard to say. All the other weapons are good.
Tornado Blow: Limited, but four uses of "fuck everything on the screen, enemies and projectiles both" is nice. It's certainly not as good as some other screen-clearers (MM4's or MM8's) but the utility is handy enough.
Plug Ball: Search Snake only tinks less and way more damaging, not much to say. I'm really not sure of the relative order of this, Magma, and Tornado, they're all so different. Hornet's in the mix too honestly. The other three weapons are just OP.


Hyrule Warriors - Failed to unlock the playable giant chicken; Ganon mode is pretty boring and I wasn't ready to deal with actual hard missions with him. Oh well. Currently collecting skulltulas, having fun.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1215 on: May 19, 2015, 05:06:20 PM »
I will say that I understand how a person could make that mistake if they played FF4, but sadly Cecil is pretty much not worth using. I think the fat ninja might even be better. That's a good but sad debate.
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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1216 on: May 19, 2015, 05:48:19 PM »
*shrug* Okay, use Meeple/Elf's tier list, but still wanted to see that kind of breakdown. Only one top-tier, one project, and two failures~ Preferably still no Kain or Rosa though.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1217 on: May 19, 2015, 06:22:12 PM »
Reiska changed his name to Naked Kain in chat yesterday. Which means he probably should be shot out of a cannon certainly but is untrustworthy to not use Kain.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 06:34:19 PM by Luther Lansfeld »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1218 on: May 19, 2015, 06:55:33 PM »
I'm actually considering buying those FF bundles that include the FF4 remakes for the PC and I'm blaming Reiska. At least they'd be an excuse to replay FF7 after nearly two decades.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1219 on: May 19, 2015, 06:59:02 PM »
You should play The After Years and revel in its fanficness (and fun gameplay).
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1220 on: May 19, 2015, 07:01:16 PM »
There'd be no Grefter to stop me.

EDIT: And hey, beats playing Demons' Souls.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Reiska

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1221 on: May 19, 2015, 07:34:14 PM »
It's true.

I used Kain on my PSP run of TAY, though, I'm unlikely to field him again so soon, as good as he is.

As for character tiering, this is how I'd personally break it down (note the order within a tier has no significance):

Top tier: Edge, Kain, Ceodore, Palom, Ursula, Golbez
"Project" tier: Rydia, Porom
Mid tier: Yang, Luca, Gekkou, Rosa, Edward, Cecil
Bad tier: Cid, Leonora, Zangetsu, Izayoi, Tsukinowa
Joke tier: Harley, Calca, Brina

A bit of logic follows here.  For the most part, everyone in the top tier is a slightly improved variant of someone in either project or mid tier. 

Edge, of course, has all his weakness-hitting tricks (with claws, and with a couple elemental katanas even now) from the first game, plus a notably improved ninjutsu list to play with (and yes it is actually sometimes relevant I've found).  Throw and Mug are just icing (Mug is nice because as far as I recall it ignores moon phase mods).  Yes, by the way, "Smash & Grab" was renamed to simply Mug in the mobile version.  Yay for consistency.

Kain is basically "Better Cecil" here; he gets similar power to Cecil with better speed and a better white magic list.  Jump also lets him continue hitting hard during full moon.

Ceodore is often considered a "Better Cecil" as well, but I think it may almost be better, sometimes, to consider him to be the white magic equivalent of Golbez.  By this I mean that Golbez is essentially a Black Mage who has a limited spell list, but gets the most important spells still (just missing out on the utility magic), but gets a decent physical and durability.  Ceodore is much the same, a White Mage with a limited spell list, but still gets most of the important spells (missing Curaja does hurt, but Curaga can do fine with the right gear setup), and still can put out decent physical and is notably more durable than Rosa or Porom.  His offense suffers compared to many of the better melees because he doesn't have a way of getting around the full moon damage penalty.

I put Palom in the top tier, but he's as close to a borderliner as this tier gets IMO.  He learns Break early, and that matters.  For further discourse, see my breakdown on Rydia below.  One notable weakness is that he can't get around moon damage penalties on black magic.  He does have a minor level deficit, as well.

Ursula is Yang who trades redundant base strength (which can be made up by equips, including the Minerva Bustier which is simply amazing on her) for speed, which is as close to a god stat as FF4 has.  Tenketsu lets her continue hitting hard during full moon.

Golbez really needs no explanation.

Rydia can be reasonably described as a project because before you collect at least Leviathan she's strictly worse than Palom (almost entirely because of how early he learns Break).  The basic elemental summons are a little better than -aras, it's true, but Palom has Bluff to even that score I'd argue, and while Rydia does have a level advantage it's not a massively commanding one.  The top-tier summons give her something Palom can't match (high MT damage at a reasonable speed, since Leviathan and later Bahamut are faster than Meteor), but conversely, Dualcast (if you give it to Palom) gives him something Rydia can't match too.  I'd wager that in the long run Palom is a better boss nuker if he gets Dualcast (via dualcasting Flare) while Rydia is a better random sweeper (Leviathan is stronger and less resisted than Quake as far as I know).  Also, it must be noted that Summon isn't subject to moon damage modifiers, so this is an advantage she has on Palom as well. 

Porom fits in the project tier, in my opinion, because she's strictly better than Rosa if developed (she also has Dualcast potential if you want to send it her way, and Dualcast Holy is almost as good as Dualcast Flare), but Rosa's level advantage can't be ignored.  (I don't think Aim really enters into the equation; I can't think of a situation where Rosa has free turns to use it outside of randoms, and I'm not too concerned about my healer's offense in randoms in this game.

Yang, I feel, is really kind of on the borderline between top and mid tier.  I placed him in mid because he's clearly worse than Ursula (he doesn't have moonproof offense, his high strength is redundant with much of his gear and his speed is lower), but at the same time, he's clearly better than basically anyone else I placed in mid tier.

Luca is in kind of a weird spot.  She's not very good in a vacuum (she's a better Cid, but Cid is quite bad).  However, her value goes up substantially in certain party setups due to bands, and Minerva Bustier access patches a lot of her weaknesses (like the speed), and she's a good deal more versatile than most melee characters because she has moonproof offense and she can do (albeit less moonproof) full damage from the back row with Big Throw, enabling oddities like four-melee parties.

Gekkou is likewise in a weird spot.  He has better core stats than Luca, but misses the Bustier (obviously), and doesn't have the bands (except with Edge).  He still has moonproof offense thanks to his (limited) Throw command, though, and the limitation in his Throw isn't that meaningful (oh no he can't throw non-shuriken).

Rosa... well, if you give Palom Dualcast, then I'd use her over Porom unless you want to rock the twin bands or something.  She has a better physical than Porom, but Porom is obviously the better healer provided she gets that Dualcast.  Rosa *does* notably have moonproof offense thanks to Aim, but I find in general that you don't want her equipped with bows in boss fights because you really want the extra Spirit from a staff, so the value of it is dubious IMO.

Edward is technically the game's best healer (Economical Ring + X-Potion Salve is nuts) but it drains gil like crazy and he can't do much else.  Little else to say.

Finally, Cecil is basically exactly what he was in the first game except useless half the game and with a large level deficit to make up.  You could argue he belongs in the project tier, but I reserved that tier for projects who pay off and he doesn't.

Cid is slow and Risk Strike sucks and he doesn't have any real way of patching his speed.  That's all there is to say about him.  Leonora would have been okay if she learned her black magic about 15 levels earlier across the board, but she doesn't and -aras really don't cut it in endgame.  The other three ninjas are some variety of "<Classic FF4 character> but worse" - Zangetsu is a worse (original) Kain, Izayoi is a worse (original) Rosa, and Tsukinowa is a worse (original) Edge.  They're usable, but only just.

I shouldn't need to explain joke tier.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 09:27:50 PM by Reiska »

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1222 on: May 20, 2015, 01:25:32 AM »
Cid's too high.

Was difficulty changed in a noticeable way?
I feel the 3D of the FF4 DS remake didn't really work, but the balance changes made up for it.

Reiska

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1223 on: May 20, 2015, 03:55:08 AM »
Final chapter is supposedly easier early on.  I haven't noticed it yet, truthfully, but I haven't gotten to the moon yet.

Other than that, the band changes, and the fact that buff mechanics are FF4DS non-stacking instead of FF4o stacking, the mechanics appear to be identical to other versions of TAY.

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Re: What Games are you playing 2015?
« Reply #1224 on: May 20, 2015, 04:11:14 AM »
Any team without Rosa or Porom can almost invariably be improved by adding one of them, so they're both too low I'd say? (Well, I'm okay with Porom there, but only because I consider Rosa better. If you value Dualcast more than Rosa's stronger start, though, then Porom should be Top.) Like yes, you can cover their roles by playing both Edward and Ceodore I guess, but why have 1 healer + 1 buffer when you can have one of those two and then someone who does both? I also completely disagree with Rydia being a "project" when she's probably the second strongest character out of the gate when you get party switching; Bio is ridiculously better than what most fighters can do at that point, never mind the MT options.


I finished Mega Man 9. Favourite Wily fight in the series, I love pulling out all the different weapons (Black Hole and Tornado for defence, Magma and Hornet to get potshots when he's high, Plug if you can catch him in close) to deal with him and he's certainly a worthy final challenge. I think I'm done with this little run of the series for now. Next up... Shovel Knight, I think? I'm in the mood for not-quite-Mega Man.

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