Author Topic: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots  (Read 2093 times)

Cmdr_King

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RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« on: March 03, 2015, 03:25:28 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II)
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
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Random Consonant

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 03:30:52 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - uh
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)  - e: sure why not
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) - probably
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - sigh
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII) - I'm not sure what October is supposed to do here other than do the blindfold-and-cigarette routine

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 02:18:04 AM by Random Consonant »

superaielman

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2015, 03:31:58 AM »

Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)- Not a ton of Seph repsect any more, but he should sleepwalk to the semis.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Hellcry hits Cloud's magic pretty hard and the physical game is going precisely nowhere here. Think he just outslugs, though it's a competitive fight.
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- Justin, slayer of SMRPG.
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- Kneejerk. Kyra might be able to tank through but the ID is a problem.

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- Kneejerk. Completely open to arguments here.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)- Different classes of middles, here.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II)- Stop nomming way too strong for the division bosses, please.
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)- Cid's not far from a OHKO and blocks ID. Blowout ahoy.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)- Strong kneejerk.
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) Zieg.
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)- Solt.
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)- Peppor had kinda there damage but was a bad CC boss otherwise. I think Doll can handle that with the awful draining.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 03:12:01 PM by superaielman »
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 03:39:25 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II)
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 06:25:06 AM by Luther Lansfeld »
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VySaika

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 03:47:25 AM »
WARNING! WARNING!

Kneejerk opinions ahead. I haven't played most of these games in so fucking long. :V

Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - Unless I'm sorely miss-remembering Rika, she can't solo this.
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) - ...Kary's a godlike now? I thought she was a heavy. I mean, she's a pretty good heavy, but, uh, Sephy doesn't even break a sweat here.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series) - Nuked from orbit.

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) - ...I...think? Rofl should be able to break Cloud's shit, and since his materia are equipped on his weapon/armor he won't even be able to cast after Rofl breaks them. If Rofl misses either weapon or armor breaking swordskills then I'm prolly wrong here.
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - Orgia mode should be able to punch through.
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - Don't think she can stop Alkaiser.

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - ...I...think?
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II) - She can do jack all against the buffing game.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II) - I don't even remember Khalamari.
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII) - Yeah he just wins this.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III) - Elfmath could change my vote(if I remember to check), but my gut says she can take this.
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - zieg.jpg
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III) - solt.jpg
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross) - the mighty PEPPORBOX falls in the face of god awful draining. gg shaker bros. EDIT: ...right. PG can miss. GodDAMN Doll how did you even make it into IRPO?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 08:59:01 PM by Gatewalker »
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Hunter Sopko

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 05:02:54 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Middle

Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II)


Light

Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)


Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 05:03:28 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): In the third form she at worst 2HKOs constantly forcing Rika to attack only on doubles. Don't think Rika's healing resources can hold out in this marathon. And if she's not careful a OHKO is possible too.
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III): Shania can probably just survive to get a turn (Xorn has some knockback on his attacks but since it's a universal system thing, respect probably isn't 100%), needs to double her stat boost and healing. Survive to another turn, heal. At this point she's fast enough and tanky enough that she can chip a little and go for a blitz. She needs to get back to 2 full stock, and then she can do Sun Flare+Attack, and Sun Flare+Attack again. Even if Xorn dispels the second, and thus only the first gets the benefit of the stat boosts... Shania should still be able to do upwards of 90% with those two rounds. Seeing as she can chip a bit first, this is fatal. To work, she needs to take a small enough amount of damage in the turn after she heals. She is hasted and with a defence buff, but double lag is pretty severe. So... let's say she gets a turn, and that while hasted she's 170% speed (not certain), so slightly above average after the double lag. Xorn can dispel her with the first turn he gets, and can then probably get two more. This might let him win if he already got in an attack before Shania's turn... but actually, looking at the numbers again, Shania can probably still kill if the first physical is replaced with draining, meaning she'll be at full HP. Alternately it's possible that high speed is actually better than numeric, like in SH2, in which case Xorn won't even be able to triple, or that the double lag is 0.66 and not 0.6 as I've generally assumed previously. Either way, I think she has the edge. Surprising.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII): Shadow Flare. Or Fly. Or anything, really.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series): Neither is as good as they once were, to me. Drain until Fire 3 wrecks VP2 Brahms, though.

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics): Rofel durability is kinda nebulous, but... I think after an opening Hellcry Punch, Cloud will now miss the 2HKO, which kinda means he's screwed.
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Spoils her nonsense, she doesn't spoil his.
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): Red's instant death, despite being based off a sword move, is in fact magical in every way (uses actor WIL and hits target PSY), and Kyra takes 30% raw off of magical status minimum due to her Magic stat (if you want to use MDef instead, a la Saga Frontier PSY, it's an even bigger cut). This puts DeadEnd at like turn 9 at best, if Red optimises for it. I think he's better off going for pure offence. And... yeah, spamming Re-Al should work, he's enough faster that he'll double before running out of WP, and it's strong enough that Kyra can't just use Warla and survive another hit.

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Kyle 3HKOs while Mallow 2HKOs. But... Kyle can only heal 13 times, while Mallow can certainly heal many more. Mallow can even block silence to ward off Silent Lake and still avoid a 2HKO, I think. If you want to give Kyle points for his physical being more volatile in a long match, feel free, but I'm not personally too inclined to.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II): Khalamari's damn good in the division if fire isn't blocked, says my memory. If someone wants to dig up a Youtube video at a reasonable level and get stats, feel free.
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII): The good news for October is that Cid blocking ID eliminates any chance he has to 3-2. The bad news is everything else.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III): Ace 2HKOs, but triggers counters and has to deal with that nasty evade. And the 2HKO may well need a Double Tusk, which right away would give Anna three attacks minimum. But regardless she certainly isn't failing to dodge one out of two attacks, so she has this.
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant): When in doubt, vote against Zieg.
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III): And Solt.
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross): Peppor wins if he 2HKOs Doll, and wins if he only 3HKOs but Doll misses at a bad time. Inclined to think he takes it.

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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 06:00:52 AM »
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III) - Sure I'll buy elfhype.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Weapon break was p. bad in FF7 Arena.

Middle

Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II) - While levels are kinda worthless late in DQ8, they're fairly potent early, so seems like Khalamari respect could be somewhat volatile based on that.  Anyway, sure, echoing kneejerk of the crowd.
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII) - Cid's insane face isn't very different than his normal face.

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III) - I think these two would get along afterward.
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - leave zieg alone
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 06:10:36 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Well, I definitely am not going to see FF 7 ultimate weapons as breakable. Doesn't matter since FF 7 limits aren't ITE and Rofel has the evade to get around the one he might trigger with the first attack. Rofel shouldn't die to one Cloud spell (well...Rofel...hmm). Fine he might. But it doesn't matter the way the votes are going.
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- Orgia mode can't really deal with Ghost Medal (unless you are voting P3 PSP). But plenty of healing and buffing doesn't help Mario at all (He can't 2HKO average with physical+Jump, and Aigis has decent durability).
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- So I think I allow 50 FP. Mallow has 25 shots of healing versus Kyle's 13. Mallow has 29% damage on his physical. Kyle has 88.3% PDur...which just keeps Mallow in the 4HKO range. Cymbal based attacks don't really fall into any of the S5 physical types (ACTUALLY IT IS SOUND. KYLE HAS A B, SO LET'S ASSUME ABOVE AVERAGE BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT INFLUENCES).

So Kyle has 9 shots of full healing, and 4 shots of lesser. Kyle does 34.8% damage to average, and Mallow and 93% Pdur (I'm assuming the slightly low defense pushes him from 93.8% HP to 93% Pdur). So Kyle 3HKOs on average...but, and this is important...Zen Sword...is not a valid choice for anyone the way the current topic is setup (Charge Time aren't a factor, Kyle doesn't have SoM, why would he choose 20 Attack over the 40 that naturally comes from Attack). This may not really matter at all. I guess this just goes to say either this: Kyle is opting for more speed, or his unsteady damage becomes more dangerous in terms of scoring a nasty crit at a good time (more defensive for Mallow). Anyways, Mallow will very occasionally double (This is where Kyle wishes that charge times were in the topic, would probably make him faster. But no matter, he's so close to average that we are talking rare as hell doubles).

Mallow's healing does only cover 83.6% of his HP though. This just matters in that it means that Mallow actually has a slimmer margin of error. My gut that Kyle should take it. It seems like at some point, he will get a lucky string. He has a 4% chance of doing at least doing approximately 68.3% on any one attack. This combined with even a basic attack is 91.7% PC HP damage...but...this is where I guess 20 Attack really matters because this changes into 97.2% damage. So yeah, going with Kyle, because Mallow is going to constantly run the risk whereas Kyle is not really (Luckily for him, he has a 42% chance each attack of doing at least 2x damage, so statistically he is going to be getting Mallow to need to heal every 3 turns. He may not every 3 turns, but there will be turns when Mallow will need to heal more often).

Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)- Cinnamon hates other healers.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II)- Uh...yes, overpowered for the division for the boss...WITH NO STAT TOPIC TO MY KNOWLEDGE? God damn it, thank you to whoever for several matches where we all kind of scratch our heads due to having literally no notes (Would completely support an addendum that only people with stat topic entries of some kind count as ranked...No stat entry should be left for Futurama

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)- Yeah, Peppor had okay damage. I'm assuming bad on NEB's vote that PowerGrab can miss? That would be pretty fatal in Doll's overall drain strategy.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 01:59:14 AM by Dhyerwolf »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 06:26:57 AM »
PowerGrab can indeed miss. I'm not sure what stat causes this to happen - probably target Agility, since that can create "miss" type evasion (as opposed to the more common shield blocking) and PowerGrab just has middling base accuracy? I tend to assume it will happen at least once in a long fight, which this seems like it might be. Granted, very much voting on gut here since no Peppor notes.

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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 07:25:54 AM »
Dhyer: I forget who said this (maybe Tonfa would know more?) but while FF7 limits aren't ITE, I think they all (almost all?  maybe not for Vincent) are 255% accuracy, which if true would mess with Rofel shield hype pretty good.  Also ultimate weapons can definitely break in FF7 (temporarily!), albeit FF7 temp-breaking won't disable the materia attached to 'em (which Rofel's breaks could arguably do).

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 11:41:31 AM »
Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - No. Rika just doesn't have the resources and the third form risks scoring a OHKO at some point.
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III) - EDIT: OKAY, so let's play some math games. Xorn has 2.1x PC HP, reduces magic by 25%, takes an extra 10% from physical, 2.4x average speed at base (I'll say 2.2x due to lag/charge times on his non-basic physical moves). He opens with Dark Hymn x2, leaving Shania at 18%. She goes La Sirene => Cure Plus => Tirawa => Sanlittobel, is now at 94% and effective 1.5x pdur. Xorn Dark Hymns x2 again, dealing 59%, Shania is now at 35%. Shining Zephyr, she deals EXACTLY 24% of Xorn's health, and is now at 97% health. Xorn can't dispel her yet! Dark Hymn or Dark Hymn x2 again (not sure if he doubles -this- time, Shania's back at 1.32x speed), Shania's likely at 2 stock now. But she doesn't want to drop him into 50% range, since Dimension Gate 2HKOs Tirawa through Sanlittobel... so, Shining Zephyr again, Xorn is at 52% health and now he can dispel Shania... so, what can she do? If he -doesn't- dispel, she doubles and splatters him. If he does... she needs to deal 1.09x PC HP. At base, she deals 0.94x PC HP with physical => Sun Flare after factoring in his defenses... but combo bonuses. Basically, if the combo boost gives an overall 15% damage boost to this combo, she wins. Otherwise, Dimension Gate x2 eats her alive. This is a very good question, but I'm willing to say she does it. This is a crazy cool fight.

Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) - No.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series) - I don't think this changes regardless of form allowed.

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Yeah, temp-breakable feels like enough of a thing for me to allow FF7 ultimates to be breakable, and that makes Cloud offense simply miserable.
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - Sigh. That ID axe saves Justin's ass far more than he deserves.
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - EDIT: Nope, Dhyer's right, Mario only 2HKOs average with Ultra Jump x2. This is just hopeless for him. Not that it... really, -really- matters, both duellers will get mulched by whoever wins Red vs. Kyra.
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - Sure.

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - Resource differences kinda play their hand here to me.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II) - Faaaaaaaaaaaaar superior effective stalling and he even 2HKOs once Iron Maiden is out of the picture. That's ugly.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II) - EDIT: Khalamari has 360 HP and 17 Speed. I'm not sure about the averages at that point, though your party at that point -does- comprise solely of the two slowest PCs in the game, so saying "average, maybe winning tiebreaks" likely works out for a kneejerk. From the records I saw on Youtube, average HP seems to fluctuate from 75 to 85 (L11-12, which may be high. However, see later for why even with a couple levels under this don't change all that much: you'd need below 60 average HP for Khalamari to look like a Heavy). His Flame Breath does roughly 30 damage, while his physical backups run along the house of 20. This said, damage averages are a bit murky, but in order for him to be below PC HP under my scaling, it'd have to be above 36 - which, if anything, sounds quite high for that point in the game - 20 to 25 sounds more like the usual fare (youtube vids seem to pull off somewhere along those lines). So, average to high 3HKO fire damage and 3-4HKO physicals off 1.4-1.8x PC HP more or less - which sounds right off my admittedly murky memory. That... -does- outslug Tio fairly hands off. Though I can't say that's too much for Middle: Khalamari is scary in-game because he's MT at a point where your healing isn't even necessarily full and possibly concentrated on only one PC - and you have only two for the fight.
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII) - Safety Bit/10.

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III) - sure
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Lucia 3HKOs Zieg before buffing (and isn't far from a 2HKO). Zieg 4HKOs Lucia. Yeah, this isn't particularly close.
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III) - She might even beat Peppor if his damage is magic.
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross) - And yeah, Peppor should handle Doll - he -does- have backup for his Earth damage, right?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 12:00:16 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 03:48:59 PM »
Snow: You can absolutely use non-damaging actions in Doubles; I did it all the time in my challenge run. You're thinking of Combos, where they can't be used, except as the final PC's action(s). Beyond that, I'd forgotten that Dhyer had made a version of the stat topic (it's not linked in the alphabetical archives, note to self: fix that) so I'll have to look at the numbers more closely again later. I really don't think double lag is slower than 0.6, though... it's certainly faster than 0.5. I suppose numbers like 1/1.75 = 0.57 are also possible.

Personally, for Khalamari, my HP was somewhat lower, like 65? I know the fire could 2HKO Guv at least, if variance went its way. Otherwise that all sounds possible. I think there's a FAQ with PC stats by level so more specific numbers should be possible to work out, I'll do that later.

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 04:06:56 PM »
Yeah, 65 sounds like what I had on Guv at least on the first time I fought him, but lower than that doesn't sound reasonable unless you phantom-factor in Angelo and Jessica (who would admittedly drag this average down, Guv and Yangus have the better HP scores in the party). That said, all the usual applies. That level of slugging is pretty scary in Middle unspoiled, but sorta falls flat against the average Middle healer build and makes less waves in Heavy than Barubary (whom I directly compared Khalamari to, since their builds are so similar). And fire spoiling -is- rather common to boot.

EDIT: Regarding Shania vs. Xorn... if I'm understanding Dhyer's notes right, a double multiplies the lag on both moves used and then applies an extra 0.66x multiplier. Given both Sanlittobel and Shining Zephyr have 0.8 recharge, this leads to... *mathmathmath.* 0.42 recharge, which is -ugly- if right. Shania may want to use Cure Plus and Sanlittobel instead in that case, since it has no recharge itself and also builds stock back. It leads to a 87% or so average speed for the next turn, but that should - if barely - avoid a triple and actually put Shania in a better position to gain ground and then start Shining Zephyr chipping.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 05:53:58 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 07:13:31 PM »
That is correct.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 09:25:07 PM »
Okay, some revised calculations with superior Dhyer numbers:

-Cure Plus followed by buffing is her opening double. Xorn will then get in three attacks thanks to the recharge more than offsetting the speed boost, but they won't kill, and from there Shania is free to heal, restore SP, restore MP, rebuff as needed without using doubles, building up stock, and chipping Xorn down to just above 75%.

-With the exact effects of Sanlittobell's defence, I now know that Shania can tank one Dark Hymn while buffed then two more after being debuffed. Assuming she is only tripled after her first big double, then, she can survive anything Xorn does thereafter. She doesn't need to use Shining Zephyr on a double, thus (which she really doesn't want to due to recharge, yeah).

-In Dhyer's stat topic, the kill point is somewhat lower, due to recharge times being considered. This gives Shania a lot more room to maneuver, and in fact she doesn't need to go for huge damage. She can do 489 considering Xorn's defences with an unbuffed double, and only needs to do ~1000 total, which allows, for, say, buffed L1 spell + physical to be good enough. At this figure, even if Xorn got a turn -immediately- after Shania's and uses dispel immediately, he'd only get two more turns thereafter. In practice, she may well have even more leeway, so she can use a stronger spell, for those who use slightly higher kill points. Too lazy to math out exactly what the max is.

-It's very possible Xorn knockback can tilt this, but I'm not sure how much credit I want to give him for that, as mentioned. I probably just throw it out in exchange for not holding any potential PC knockback against him (granted, PC knockback does require some skill setup, so I could see saying otherwise). Without knockback, I'm increasingly sure Shania should take this.


Now, for Khalamari... I'm now certain I was Level 11 for Khalamari. Average HP is 72.5, average Agility is 19 (making Khala slightly slow). Flame Breath does 35 (30 to 40), meaning that Guv (70 HP) is borderline 2HKOed on average. (At Level 10 he is always 2HKOed, at Level 12 almost never.) His physical does 31 damage less a quarter of the target's defence, too lazy to work out what that is so yeah let's go with 20.

He halves fire, resists ice and wind by 25%, is vulnerable to poison, halves blind and Sap, and immunes other status effects, for future reference.

I may try to figure out exact PC damage/defence at some point for more precise numbers, but not now. EDIT: I lied, here you all go.

For Guv, his best damage at this point is with a spear. If he has invested all his SP into spears, he will have Attack+10. With a far more modest investment, +5. If he's ignoring spears entirely... well they're still his best damage, or tied with Boomerang and +5. I'm going to assume a modest spear investment as a compromise.

Spear attack with Attack+5 = 24 damage

For Yangus, if he has invested all his SP in scythes, his best damage is 34 with Wind Sickles. A modest investment in scythes leaves his best damage as 31 damage physical. No investment in scythes drops that slightly, but it still beats anything else. Again, going with the modest version:

Scythe attack with Attack+5 = 31 damage

Average damage for Khalamari is thus 27.5. This makes is against his defence, but DQ defence kinda sucks so it shouldn't matter much if you used randoms instead. This makes him about 1.5PCHP to me, apply your own scaling as you will.


Finally, his non-firebreath attacks:

Guv defence: 12+17+3+7 = 39
Yangus defence: 13+12+3+7 = 35

Thus, Khalamari's physicals do 22 (a solid 4HKO). Apparently he also has a MT tentacle swipe which does somewhat less (75% multiplier?) but I'm not sure how often this will matter, maybe against a FE mage when he needs to avoid counters and still wants to hit physical defence.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 09:58:05 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 02:24:37 AM »
Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): Shadowbreath and Anothergate will leave a mark without MDef buffing even before Megid spam comes into play.  It's arguable whether Rika even makes it to the third form with her lowish TP reserves.


Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)  Silence and Petrify both wreck Cloud and he's unable to guard both.  Confusion is amusing too; I'm not sure how much a full HP Cloud will hurt himself with his own physical.  What matters is that self inflicted damage doesn't charge Limits.

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 07:17:56 AM »
Considering who I usually root for, I hate to say this, but...  I'm not sure Shania can use Cure Plus and Sanlittobell on the same turn.

When it comes to doing doubles, the transformation actually counts as a doubled action, which is why the game recommends turning off the Double option whenever you're wanting to switch forms at the start of her turn.  However, La Sirene is one of Shania's tankier forms (I forget the exact difference of defense between that and Tirawa is), and also has both Arc Shield and Arc Barrier, which both have a crazy fast recharge time if memory serves.

I think this came up once in a Shania solo run that someone did on these forums, too.

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 07:30:29 AM »
I can assure you with complete confidence that Shania can double moves from two different fusions. Whichever she uses second will be the form she stays in for the rest of the round. You'll see the second transformation in the middle of the action resolving, instead of before actions are inputted like normal.

(The person you're referring to is probably me. It was a duo run, though, since SH3 is too nasty to do a solo in without too much grinding for my taste.)

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 08:59:37 PM »
Changed my vote on Doll/Peppor. Staying with Kyle > Mallow on general respect levels though.
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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2015, 02:00:36 AM »
I switched on Xorn/Shania. I'm not 100% convinced, but convinced enough of the possibility to side with a fun Godlike spoiler taking down a highish Godlike (Also, I suspect that charge times might hamper Xorn's speed enough anyways to make this more realistic).
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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2015, 01:59:33 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): Too much damage and durability.
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III): I assume she gets a turn to do nasty stuff. Xorn is a limit boss and I don't respect his HP all that much thanks to the Dolphin of Doom.
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII): Well then.
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series): I want to say she has the magic damage to pull this off...

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics): Cloud can pop him out in a ~2 shots?
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Apparently?
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Healing, isn't 2HKO'd.
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): ID? Meh, should manage through raw damage and speed.

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Don't think I allow as much FP as Dhyer.
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II): Has damage.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II): Tio's not a good Middle.
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII): Surely he just 2HKOs her?

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2015, 02:04:15 AM »
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II): Tio's not a good Middle.

Tio isn't a good Middle, but she's passable. Damage isn't great, but she has both physical and magical options. She's also good at spoiling evadable physicals since she start with a base 40% and she could buff that. She does fail hard against this whole pool though (She might cause issues for Mallow. Cinnamon she deals with though. Actually I maybe also Cid. So 2 or 3 of 7).
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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2015, 02:41:17 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Middle

Light


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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 1- Shakin' in our boots
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2015, 08:27:03 AM »
Godlike

Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) vs Rika (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Shania (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Xorn (Grandia III)
Kary (Final Fantasy) vs Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Brahms (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) vs Rofel Wodring (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Justin (Grandia) vs Peach Toadstool (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Mario (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Red (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierny (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Middle

Kyle (Suikoden V) vs Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) vs Poco (Arc the Lad II)- No vote.
Khalamari (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) vs Tio (Grandia II)
October (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Cid Highwind (Final Fantasy VII)

Light

Anna (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Ace (Suikoden III)
Zieg Feld (Legend of Dragoon) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Nei (Suikoden III)
Doll (SaGa Frontier) vs Peppor (Chrono Cross)
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