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Author Topic: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2  (Read 2870 times)

Cmdr_King

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RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« on: March 08, 2015, 10:54:53 PM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 11:54:19 PM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn): Headache, depends on a few things. One is Nailah's evade; with the authority boost it's over 50% and thus she should be in good shape regardless. Without, it's a bit more trouble. Another is exactly how Indalecio's turns come. I'm not sure who goes first here, even - both are notably mobile in their home games. Indalecio badly wants to both get the first turn and get another turn immediately after Time of Truth kicks in. Otherwise... pretty sure I see Indalecio being three-rounded here (he's in much better shape if it's four), and needs at the very least one high-HP spell plus one Explode to win. I'm not certain. Trying hard to avoid just voting for the obvious bias choice here. EDIT: The more I think about it the more I really doubt Indalecio has time to use both Time of Truth and charge Explode before Nailah gets another turn, which makes this pretty hopeless especially since he needs some other judgement calls to get that far, to me.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III): Tibarn can win, but he needs to avoid Bad Breath. To do this you pretty much need to see Bad Breath as evadable via evade and not as a pure status move... but since pure status moves hit through Pavise and evade and only hit Res (and Tibarn's isn't actually good), that's a tough argument to make. It doesn't help that, without Tear, Tibarn needs three turns to kill here.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4): Well Reclaimer Dragon won't be doubled. If it can hit twice through Lucina's evasion (or if its attacks don't trigger counters), then it should outslug, as I think it's just durable enough to tank a Lucina turn. Abstain until I hunt down Tide and figure out the answer to those questions. <_< EDIT: All moot because if it can tank a turn, it can just spam sleep. And I'm pretty sure it can.
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series): Lenneth does 1.6PCHP, which... I figure is probably enough to kill Hortensia, even with her pdur and absolute defence? It is by the endgame damage figures. Granted, those might be too high for when you fight Hortensia... but I'm not terribly inclined to make judgement calls for regents like that. Could be argued.

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword): Nosferatu wards off Hugo's hopes here even if he manages to 2HKO + double.
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger): Break should still work through Vigil Hat (they don't stop ID) and still be turn 2. Marle is faster and has status of her own, though. Beowulf should probably block confuse and then pray his shield can protect him from Stop? That should be 30%, while Break is 41% but the first chance kicks in after Marle's... which *runs some calculations* gives Marle a 51-49 advantage in odds to win (actually sliiightly higher because Beowulf can run out of MP, though not often if he equips for it). Alternatively, Beowulf blocks stop instead, which leaves him vulnerable to Provoke. That leaves an open question of what type of attack Provoke is (it's not starred as magic, and isn't affected by any stats in-game) but eh either it's affected by Beowulf's faith and hits his better shield and isn't, and those probably about balance out. Marle is now clearly favoured, but she'll have to land confuse repeatedly in her lockdown? One confuse does let her haste and have a ridiculously big advantage, though, since she can wait for Beowulf to whiff then get three attacks in a row. And if you let her switch bows after Beowulf decides his statusblocker (I... probably do, you can change equipment more often in CT than you can in FFT), then she'll slow him as well. And of course there's an argument that Provoke doesn't hit any evades at all. Think that's that. Really close though, as per the Break vs. Stop notes above! (Way less close if you see Vigil Hats stopping break.)
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III): Gut vote, could be argued. Alfina could lock Tana down forever but with her evade that seems difficult. EDIT: Fast Stun Force changes everything.
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4): Raze is entirely evadable.

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story): Bowman has 1.6x average damage = 64% = 97% to Yulie. That's assuming I don't antihype Sakura Attack's speed and see it going second.
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Best-case scenario for Chisato is that she both doubles and 6HKOs... but that still gives Nowi way too many turns.
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals): EDIT: Trusting people here. If Guy's arguments rely on starting IP which I don't give, or seeing SDs lower than I do, then I think Chloe definitely has this for me.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Bowser has serious trouble winning this even if he goes first and Fear is effective. And there's not really a compelling reason to see the latter in particular.

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Jane respect not found. I guess she can play guessing games with her evade-and-counter move, but this still gets her outslugged pretty badly assuming each guesses right 50% of the time (not to mention Miriel can turtle while she runs out of MP).
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF): Isn't Big Joe.
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III): Probably can get around a limit with a timely use of Wow.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 11:56:31 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 12:22:29 AM »
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Definitely a coinflip match.  I think I'd not charge Indy a turn for ToT, but not let him use limit spells that were "just unlocked" in a close speed situation, which this is (Nailah winning tiebreak to me due to her great move).  Angel Feather might stave off doubles though?!  Anyway, I buy the Nailah 3HKO going first, but Indy probably just OHKO's with Explode, but he only gets to use it once.  If it hits he wins, if it misses he loses, and it seems Nailah does indeed have coinflip accuracy in-game.  Pretty happy with either one winning.  EDIT: Well since Elf kneejerked one way, happy to kneejerk the other.  Also Nailah's evade is SLIGHTLY ont he wrong side of coinflip, although I suppose there's also holding Indy against the broken elemental-resist armors you can get too.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Yeah no.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Huh.  If Lucina doesn't kill on her counter-attack she DIES HORRIBLY since she's getting doubled in both senses of the word, so RD only needs to effectively kill in 3 attacks through her evade.  However this is kinda moot as I'm pretty sure Lucina doesn't even need Aether to trigger to KO Reclaimer Dragon here (WA4 boss durability.jpg), and that's ignoring Yulie's gem damage.  RD does have a backup "spam Sleep twice" game but eh, Lucina has slightly above average Resistance.  (Rare footage of an incident where Lucina would rather Maribelle be her mother?!)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) - Hugo's pretty hard to spoil, but super-high status resistance will do it, sure.
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - Yeah I see Vigil Hat as blocking Stone, thanks to Elf for making this easy.
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III) Stun Force -> Armageddon (especially horrible for FE duelers) -> doubled spells of doom.

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Yuck, the way I used Bowman in-game was totally differnet than the DL, so abstain.
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Munch munch.

Light

Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
Tremor -> chip -> Tremor #2 I guess.  Going to assume Miranda is slightly faster.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 05:45:23 AM by SnowFire »

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 01:57:34 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) - eh going with the one that doesn't rely on arguments based on authority or enemy mages sucking, both of which I am not terribly sympathetic towards all things considered
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) - Boss notes place RD as above average accuracy and Lucina isn't -that- dodgy, and my WA4 boss durability views see it as taking one counter, so this is fairly clear as far as I'm concerned.

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) - WoS is out and I doubt Hugo one-rounds even without considering Nos.
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - burping Elfboy
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III) - Yeah I don't think I see this as particularly close myself.
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Raze kind of not doing a particularly good job here even with timed sphere crap.

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story) - sure why not
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals) - Well the good news for Chloe is that she 2HKOs with PDL x2.  The bad news is that nothing else does, Tough hide healing exists, and as with most fighters, she's 2HKO'd before Miss Grudge shenanigans.  On the other hand WoB x2 -> PDL 3HKOs (barely to me) and... her third turn does come up faster than Guy's second to me.  Of course since I allow starting IP that in itself doesn't win her the match (WoB gives 11%ish and Tough Hide healing needs 13% for why this matters), but since Guy's first action has to be used for healing to me, she should make it to turn 5 without seeing a fatal IP, so I have to think she can parley her faster actions and a Quick proc into a win regardless.

Light

Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - not thinking about this
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)  - lol
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 08:14:36 PM by Random Consonant »

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 02:05:11 AM »
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III) - See Elfboy as for why I don't respect Tibarn dodging Bad Breath. Not like he has that much evade in FE9 anyway.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) - Lucina -can- win if she A) dodges one of Reclaimer Dragon's attacks; B) lands an Aether; C) is taken against Yulie boosted Hi-gems averages. Given how I feel Reclaimer has more room to maneuver here (his own odds of being evaded also get mitigated by his own decent evade) and he could even -double- depending on how you take FE speed vs. WA4 speed, I think the average of assumptions favors him.

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) - Oh dear. Hugo status just doesn't make waves here and Athos shouldn't be 2HKOed by Hugo physicals - especially not against Nos counters.
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - Sure, burping Elfboy.
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III) - Opening double nearly one-rounds Alfina, the follow-up Javelins finish the job. Alfina probably can't really kill Tana before this happens, especially ramming into that evade.
Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Raze has very little recourse against that much evade. Even with his timed spheres not eating Illusion, it doesn't help much, he's almost inevitably triggering Crisis Evade even if he lucks out. After that, it's a simple matter of plowing through the HP for Arnaud.

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story) - Not being able to OHKO Yulie is asking for trouble.
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Uh Chisato doubles, but Nowi counters and tanks the hell out of her, so still outslugs.
Chloe Hertzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals) - EDIT: wait, Random is right. World of Booc recharge into a 3-2 saves Chloe's ass here.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - This wouldn't pan out for Bowser even if you saw Sara vulnerable to Fear.

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Yup. Jane runs out of MP for What Can You Do? way before she makes any real leeway and even on doubles she has to trigger Miriel counters. This doesn't pan out.
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - Faster, OHKOs. Dear god, Raja.
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) - BIG JOE
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III) - Sure.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 03:38:58 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 05:50:07 AM »
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)  On the fence about Berserk landing through Vigil Hat or Marle MDef.  Beowulf sad that he can't block both stop and confuse.  Chicken takes too long and Innocent doesn't last long enough to kill (only lasts 2.5 Beowulf turns roughly).  Once Marle gets off Haste, the match favors her.  Voting Marle because that amuses me more.  Shock could be a thing but nah.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 02:01:18 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 07:32:33 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- Strong kneejerk of Indalecio going first, which tips the fight.
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)- OHKO.

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)- I think I see Vigil catching everything relevant here.
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)- Later.
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)- See a OHKO here.
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- sigh.
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)- Kneejerk. Chloe might be able to play her turns right, but thinking Guy's limit ranges are a big problem.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- Aguro being faster is pathetic.
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vsMiranda (Grandia III)
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 07:55:32 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 09:22:17 PM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- Not sure why Indy needs more than 1 Explode unless you see that first one missing specifically. 1.3 PC HP Fire Damage certainly should get Nailah. Also, Authority is a murky for Ike; let alone people who actually put their Authority to use before Ike...let alone Nailah.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)- So...was RD's speed actually that good on turn 1. Because I notice that for a lot of WA 4 bosses...it's not. As such, don't think there will be an immediate double. And RD's HP is pretty bad.
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)- Gut. That AD should give her a turn. Truth to be told, if I'm allowing Charge I'm allowing Poison Blow, so Lenneth's damage is probably about 1.4x (every bit helps Hortensia)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)- Avoids OHKO by the skin of her teeth. Haste, heal, Protect. Sakura Attack's recharge doesn't help Bowman here (although I strongly disagree with any notion that it makes Yulie go first).
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)- A 3-2 needs at 25% SD to include two WoBs, not two PDLs (PDLs and WoBs recharges basically cancel and 101% does not 3-2 75% Speed).

Guy has 1.11 Mdur, so about a kill point of 5,300 in MK 2. Assuming 75% SD (I use 85%, but let's go for the more extreme and see how it plays out)

Chloe: WoB, 1160 Damage
Guy: Heal. He could attack, but the WoB and then PDL would just get him.
Chloe: WoB,
Chloe: WoB or PDL (The reality is that since Guy healed, she can't kill. She needs to setup a way where she kills on a double with two PDLs. However, she has 13 WoBs to get that double set up. As such, at 75% speed for Guy she takes it since she keeps him locked down too much.

But at 85% speed for Guy, I think she falters. She can't 3-2 with anything. Chloe falls to two physicals.


Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 10:04:39 PM »
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- Not sure why Indy needs more than 1 Explode unless you see that first one missing specifically. 1.3 PC HP Fire Damage certainly should get Nailah. Also, Authority is a murky for Ike; let alone people who actually put their Authority to use before Ike...let alone Nailah.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)- So...was RD's speed actually that good on turn 1. Because I notice that for a lot of WA 4 bosses...it's not. As such, don't think there will be an immediate double. And RD's HP is pretty bad.

Re Indalecio, personally I find the PCHP in the boss stat topic ridiculously low, so yeah Explode's closer to 1.1 to me. Nailah's fire weakness doesn't actually add that much damage, so I'm not inclined to buy a OHKO.

WA4 first-turn boss speed is exactly as good as advertised (Scythe aside, obviously). If you've ever read Tide's speedrun strats, you'd know this; it varies by boss but they usually instant-double everyone but Jude. Though, sometimes they have to move before they're in range of melee attacks, and I forget if Reclaimer Dragon is one such... if you hold that against them that could make a big difference here.

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 09:24:29 AM »
Godlike

Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) - Yeah, I remember RD having the stat combo from hell.  Lucina feels outmatched here.
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series) - Can only vote on VP2 Lenneth, and I remember Hortensia generally blowing people the hell up in fights.  I don't respect Wyrm against DQ bosses, so Hortensia definitely gets some durability notice here.

Heavy

Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - Kneejerk
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III) - I'll look into it later.  Weighs heavily on Stun Pulse respect, though.

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - Oh wow.  Yeah, not seeing any big edges for Bowser here.  Pretty sure he's hitting the wrong defense and Sara's hitting his bad defense as well.

Light

Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) - THIS IS THE BEST MATCH EVER.  IT IS GREAT AND DYNAMIC.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 11:34:53 PM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn): Explode and should get a good thwack in before that too.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series): Regent vs. Gratuitous damage. They know how this goes (Wyrm is a limited resource... that you can use to blow past every boss in the game in a single playthrough).

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword): Nosferatu counters and I don't think he cares about status.
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger): Blocking a status is costly here?
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III): AS damage averages make this easier.
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4): Hmm yeah. I guess this works. Falling Leaves won't kill in time because of Arnaud's evade. And Crisis Evade would kick in too. I don't think Raze dying and coming back would clear out Hex effects...

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story): No OHKO.
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals): 50% starting IP probably saves him?
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Oh wow.

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): I wonder if I'd allow double shield itemcasting Raja. And if that would make a difference as he wouldn't be 2HKO'd through Blessing.
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF): Crowdsourcing.
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2015, 03:00:20 AM »
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): I wonder if I'd allow double shield itemcasting Raja. And if that would make a difference as he wouldn't be 2HKO'd through Blessing.

Out of curiosity, what would Raja be itemcasting?

Was FE 10 weakness not 3x to weapon might? That should add 14 for an average endgame Fire attack, which is a boost of 66% compared to a 40% PC HP attack. That kind of boost would make Explode nasty as hell even at 1.1 PC HP base (which I'm assuming is factoring in an accessory? SO 2 accessories tend to be rather obscure and convoluted, IMO, but I'm assuming there's were the extra 20% HP would come from).
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 05:52:51 AM »
To play devil's advocate a bit...  according to Dhyer's stat topic, Alfina's Stun Force is faster than average.  Assuming you see FE initiative as "average" and ATB speed as having anything to do with FE speed, there is no "opening double" from Tana, she's promptly paralyzed and then stat-debuffed to at *least* not double Alfina, and possibly get doubled herself depending on interp.

I suppose you can see Tana as evading the opening Stun Force, but since it's a quasi-status move (even if there is damage attached) and it's a move that gets around G3's version of evade, I'm not too likely to hype it too much here.  And of course it's possible that Alfina runs out of juice depending on starting SP totals to keep much of a paralysis-lock going, but still.  I can see the Tana vote of course, just don't think it's as easy for Tana as the current vote slant lets it out to be, she really wants some Alfina antihype in there.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2015, 07:09:24 AM »
Was FE 10 weakness not 3x to weapon might? That should add 14 for an average endgame Fire attack, which is a boost of 66% compared to a 40% PC HP attack. That kind of boost would make Explode nasty as hell even at 1.1 PC HP base (which I'm assuming is factoring in an accessory? SO 2 accessories tend to be rather obscure and convoluted, IMO, but I'm assuming there's were the extra 20% HP would come from).

I don't remember for certain, as it's been years, but I know I was at 9000+ HP with my main PCs by the end. I didn't have any accessories, and I think I was at Level 90 (or so?) + the Biology skill, or something like that?

For the fire weakness, I was just adding the raw number on at the end, rather than a percentage increase, which better reflects its in-game effectiveness (stronger fire mages are stronger due to their magic stat, which is additive, not tomes which don't vary much). Nailah's fire weakness is pretty much irrelevant in-game; she'll never, be threatened by the weak fire mages you face early in the game, and then there are like... two fire mages in Endgame-1 who still don't threaten her at all, and then finally there's a map full of teleporting fire/wind/lightning mages which could wreck her! ... except she's not weak to their fire attacks for some reason. So yeah, hyping that weakness as some sort of big thing doesn't sit right with me. The arrow weakness in FE10 can certainly matter (bows have more might than tomes, let alone crossbows), the elemental weaknesses are far less significant by comparison.

It probably doesn't help that Indalecio faces elemental defence up the wazoo (you uh don't let him do 9999 in-game) so I'm extra disinclined to give elemental weakness hype any respect here.


Also, probably going to flip my vote on Alfina/Tana. I hadn't realised Stun Force would come out as above average speed. While I certainly don't see Armageddon influencing doubling ability (unless... if it affected evade? Good question) I don't think it matters, Alfina getting an opening shot in (which I agree should hit) probably tilts the match solidly in her favour.

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Maybe.

VySaika

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2015, 08:11:45 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2015, 08:30:07 AM »
Was FE 10 weakness not 3x to weapon might? That should add 14 for an average endgame Fire attack, which is a boost of 66% compared to a 40% PC HP attack. That kind of boost would make Explode nasty as hell even at 1.1 PC HP base (which I'm assuming is factoring in an accessory? SO 2 accessories tend to be rather obscure and convoluted, IMO, but I'm assuming there's were the extra 20% HP would come from).

I don't remember for certain, as it's been years, but I know I was at 9000+ HP with my main PCs by the end. I didn't have any accessories, and I think I was at Level 90 (or so?) + the Biology skill, or something like that?

For the fire weakness, I was just adding the raw number on at the end, rather than a percentage increase, which better reflects its in-game effectiveness (stronger fire mages are stronger due to their magic stat, which is additive, not tomes which don't vary much). Nailah's fire weakness is pretty much irrelevant in-game; she'll never, be threatened by the weak fire mages you face early in the game, and then there are like... two fire mages in Endgame-1 who still don't threaten her at all, and then finally there's a map full of teleporting fire/wind/lightning mages which could wreck her! ... except she's not weak to their fire attacks for some reason. So yeah, hyping that weakness as some sort of big thing doesn't sit right with me. The arrow weakness in FE10 can certainly matter (bows have more might than tomes, let alone crossbows), the elemental weaknesses are far less significant by comparison.

It probably doesn't help that Indalecio faces elemental defence up the wazoo (you uh don't let him do 9999 in-game) so I'm extra disinclined to give elemental weakness hype any respect here.


Also, probably going to flip my vote on Alfina/Tana. I hadn't realised Stun Force would come out as above average speed. While I certainly don't see Armageddon influencing doubling ability (unless... if it affected evade? Good question) I don't think it matters, Alfina getting an opening shot in (which I agree should hit) probably tilts the match solidly in her favour.

You've had to be like L95 naturally which seems...quite high. The stat topic is at L90, and it's only there because I needed to level up all the techs and the constant running away would have been too much (I really should try to back out those extra levels). In more fairness, Indy's attacks are dangerous because he's not just running around with 1 element to block and it's all MT.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2015, 06:07:54 PM »
I was definitely at Level 90 or so, and I certainly never stopped to grind. I assume the stat topic needed to do a lot of extra grinding because you needed to level up more than 4 people, because otherwise I'm not sure how you'd be that much lower - the final dungeon is freaking huge and gives lots of Exp per fight. Also, what about the Biology skill? I assume that's not in the PC stat topic figures (or if it is that's... kinda weird, and should be noted).

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Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2015, 07:14:54 PM »
I believe I likely did under the assumption that everyone gets skill level points, everyone will choose that and as such, it's how they'll look in game (would have to double check to be sure). I did gain a pretty decent amount of levels since my HP jumped from 5800 at the beginning of the dungeon to 7500 at Indy.
...into the nightfall.

OblivionKnight

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2015, 03:49:35 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) - Boss vs. non-boss. 
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III) - As above
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4) - No Awakening :(
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series) - LennethAll for nearly Blue-like

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) - Hooray for buying runes
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger) - Overall has the advantage - guess I should clarify how I take status blocking when it doesn't exist in games
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - No Awakening
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals) 0 Yay IP
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - BowserAll FTW

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - No Awakening
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF) - Not a Light!
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III) - Limits :(
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2015, 11:06:59 PM »
Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) - Hooray for buying runes

Out of dark curiosity, which rune are you thinking of?  The Wind Rune is already one of the most OP runes for the DL, sporting accurate status & healing to go with Hugo's options in both physical & big magical damage...  Hugo really only wins this with the likes of either a OHKO or physical status that Athos can't resist...  Viper Rune maybe if Hugo's accuracy is really good with it?!

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2015, 11:38:49 PM »
Hugo could use a Water Rune for Silent Lake, giving him the win even with his C rank in it.

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Twilkitri

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2015, 12:07:38 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2015, 07:47:30 PM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- I... think, yeah.
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter) vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Alfina (Grandia III)
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom) vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- No vote.
Big Joe (Xenogears) vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Miranda (Grandia III)
CK: She is the female you
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2015 Season 1, Week 2
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2015, 01:43:40 AM »
Godlike

Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story)- iiiiiiii vs Nailah (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- ii
Tibarn (Fire Emblem Series) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)- iiiiiiiii
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- iii vs Reclaimer Dragon (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiii
Hortensia (Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter)- iii vs Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile Series)- iiiiii

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III)- ii vs Athos (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)- iiiiiiiii
Beowulf Kadmus (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iii vs Marle (Chrono Trigger)- iiiiiiiii
Tana (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- iii vs Alfina (Grandia III)- iiiii
Razelux Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiiiiiiii

Middle

Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiiiii vs Bowman Jean (Star Ocean: The Second Story)- iii
Chisato Madison (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Nowi (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- iiiiiiiiii
Chloe Hurtzog (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)- iiiii vs Guy (Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals)- iii
Sara (Breath of Fire)- iiiiiiii vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- i

Light

Jane Maxwell (Wild ARMs: Alter Code F)- ii vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- iii
Aguro (Lufia and the Fortress of Doom)- iiiiii vs Raja (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- i
Big Joe (Xenogears)- ii vs Sacred Slayer (Wild ARMs XF)- iiiiiiiii
Ward Zabac (Final Fantasy VIII)- i vs Miranda (Grandia III)- iiiiiiiiii
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.