Author Topic: DL Twink League 2015 Noms (Read 2864 times)

Cmdr_King · « **on:** April 30, 2015, 01:23:11 AM »

In contrast to last fall's Twink League, this time we're looking for full throttle, strong as they'll go duellers. DL-side will include the tend-setter himself, Blue, and we'll need your strongest twinks to compete.

Guidelines-
- While I'm open to noms for DL-side Bluelikes, do focus your noms on twink builds. Related, I'd prefer to shy away from optional doom bosses, although we'll see what the field ends up being.
- Remember that the dueller will be put into matches as-nommed. If you want flexibility built into the design, be sure to say so in the build!
- In the interest of... well, interest, please don't nom any Final Fantasy VIII builds.
- No limit on number of accepted noms. Nom what you have good ideas for as you have them.
- For now stick to the Ranked List. If we have a dearth I'll post opening up noms to whatever.

Have at. Week 1 will probably launch a week from Sunday (or Monday, however my schedule shakes down).

Reiska · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2015, 02:39:12 AM »

I'll add things to this post as I think of them. Feel free to veto things as desired.

Minato Arisato
Standard bluelike interps apply. Nothing special here.

Meliadoul Tengille (FFT: WotL)
War of the Lions specifically lets her break skills work on things without applicable equipment and gives her a damage boost on them as well - Shellbust Stab does PA*(WP+5), Blastar Punch PA*(WP+4), Hellcry Punch PA*(WP+3) and Icewolf Bite PA*(WP+2).
Setup: Level 40 assumed. Divine Knight job at all times. Can set any secondary command set she wishes (including WotL Dark Knight) with all abilities learned. Reaction ability and Movement ability are locked to MP Switch and Move-MP UP, respectively, but she can set any Support ability she wishes (including the Dark Knight ones). Dark Knight stuff will be listed below since it's not covered in the existing stat topics. She can have 97 Brave and 94 Faith, too.
Equips: For this tourney, she gets access to everything in FFT, accessories and WotL multiplayer gear (which in the iOS version is storebought in aftergame) included. In practice, this means:
Weapon - Chaos Blade (40 WP, Always: Regen, Inflict: Stone) is the obvious go-to. If she's not using the Brigand's Gloves and needs the speed, she can fall back to Excalibur, of course.
Shield - Escutcheon II (75 P-EV, 50 M-EV) is the obvious choice. Some setups, in theory, could see use for the Reverie Shield (50 P-EV, 25 M-EV, Half: all elements), though.
Head - Grand Helm (150 HP, Immune: Blind/Sleep) would be her default. She can use Vanguard Helm (150 HP, 20 MP) with MP-sucking secondaries or if she wants a bit of extra MP Switch buffer, or even Ribbon (10 HP, Immune: all negative status but Chicken/Oil/Innocent/Faith) if she wants the status protections.
Body - She has the most good options here:
Mirage Vest (120 HP, Immune: Stone/Poison/Sleep, +1 Speed) is probably her default of choice due to the +Speed.
Minerva Bustier (120 HP, Immune: Fire/Lightning/Wind/Darkness, Half: Ice/Water/Earth/Holy)
Grand Armor (170 HP, Always: Reraise/Regen) - the Reraise does her no good in the DL, but the Regen might if she doesn't need the other things.
Secret Clothes shouldn't be forgotten either, of course (don't have the stats on them handy atm).
Accessory - The most prominent choices among WotL-specific accessories would be:
Brigand's Gloves (Speed +1, Always: Haste) - Probably the default, due to the +Speed and alternate source of Auto-Haste.
Sage's Ring (Absorb: Fire/Ice/Lightning/Wind/Water/Earth/Holy/Darkness) - Yes, really
Empyreal Armband (Speed +1, Immune: Slow/Stop/Immobilize)
Tynar Rouge (PA +3, MA +3, Always: Protect/Shell/Haste) - If she doesn't actually need the extra speed point, this is better than the Brigand's Gloves.

Relevant things from the WotL Dark Knight:
COMMAND SET - DARKNESS
Sanguine Sword: (PA*WP)*.8 HP drain, no element.
Infernal Strike: (PA*WP)*.8 MP drain, no element.
Crushing Blow: PA*(WP+2) damage, carries weapon's element, 25% chance to inflict Stop.
Abyssal Blade: PA*(68/100)*(WP+3) damage, carries weapon's element, costs HP equal to 20% of max HP.
Unholy Sacrifice: PA*MA*(68/100)+(MHP/3) damage, Dark element, 25% chance to inflict Slow. Costs HP equal to 30% of max HP.
SUPPORT ABILITIES:
HP Boost: Boosts maximum HP by 20%.
Vehemence: Boosts damage done, healing done, and damage taken by 50%.

Ryu (Breath of Fire III)
Standard DL setup, with three exceptions:
One, he gets apprenticed to Meryleep at level 18 and stays on her for the rest of the game. This gives him -22 HP, -22 Pwr, -20 Def, and +44 Agl from his normal DL stats (as per Dhyer's topic). He also gains War Shout (MT attack power buff for 6 AP) and Shadowwalk (automatic critical hit for 8 AP) in his skillset.
Two, he gets to use a single Manly Clothes each fight if desired.
Three, he can also use whatever stat-boosting accessories he likes.

Excal · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2015, 03:59:27 AM »

I may think about a real setup, and I know you said you want to stay away from Optional Doom Bosses, buuuuut...

LFT: Infinite Ko Army with Move-MP UP added.

Because the Twink League needs Ko hype.

SnowFire · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2015, 01:21:52 AM »

I kinda like weird superbosses slugging it out as far as uber-Godlike tastes go, tends to be a bit more diverse than twinks, all of whom if they're to compete with Blue need to also be "win at initiative," so we're left with a lot of initiative tiebreaks. Anyway, in the no-fun brigade for Bluelike superbosses, obligatory mention of Heiss (Radiant Historia). (Hey, loses to Ghaleon, must be fair?!)

To mix things up with a dueler who doesn't have initiative, I present

Kimahri (FFX)

Just DL Kimahri, ~~except he can optionally equip an armor that has the Ribbon ability (but nothing else) if he wants.~~ Okay fine Elf thinks DL-legal is enough. Note that DL-legal includes Stoneproof armor.

Oh, he also fights an untargetable enemy Yu Yevon who forcibly allies with Kimahri's opponent. Yevon is only targetable / damageable once his main opponent falls. Assume he just spams Gravijas at everyone constantly. "I'm helping!"

(to spell out the implications: as a reminder, Yevon will instantly cast Auto-Life on opponents if it ever falls off, e.g. due to being revived by it or by dispel. This means only fatal status that pierces an FFX Ribbon, insta-win effects, some kind of revival-preventing or magic-preventing field effect, damage-with-a-dispel attached, or possibly certain kinds of double actions can take Kimahri down permanently.)

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2015, 02:00:59 AM »

Amusingly, I think something like Jeanne from Jeanne D'Arc can take out that Kimahri build. Her goddess form instantly gets another turn if she defeats an enemy, so she should be able to blast again after Auto Life kicks in?

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2015, 02:39:32 AM »

Since we need a Kimahri spoiler...

BoF 3 Chimera- Immunity ignoring fatal paralysis. Decently durable as well (Probably nearing 3 PC HP) and slow.

SnowFire · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2015, 02:44:28 AM »

Well it's an interp-headache (although perhaps less of one than all the Initiative vs. Initiative?) but I'm pretty sure Yevon's AI is something like "Counter PC Revival: Cast Auto-Life on them." IOW your average multi-damage dealer (e.g. Lulu's Rages) will just waste extra damage blowing up Kimahri's corpse, but genuine double-actions will give Yevon a chance in the middle to re-cast Auto-Life. Can easily double-check Dualcast if needed to see how that works - I strongly suspect that if the 1st spell is fatal, either the 2nd cast will auto-target something else, or the unfortunate target will get re-Auto-Life'd before the 2nd spell arrives.

What would definitely do it are multi-actions that deny *all* action including counters during them, something like Tales of Symphonia Unison Attacks? Possibly G1 Feena's Time Stop as well, or a G3 character with the Time Whale active, since they allow "time" to pass so that Auto-Life would have time to proc (which isn't true of your usual 10x actions at once effect) but Yevon wouldn't be able to do anything due to the fact these effects are basically immunity-ignoring Stop field effects to everyone else.

EDIT: Also, Jeanne's accuracy problems aren't helped by Evade & Counter, so pretty sure Jeanne loses to straight-up DL Kimahri. Might even still lose if allowed storebought attack spells, her magic is not great by endgame. So maybe JDA Richard is the one to hype here, perhaps.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2015, 03:03:29 AM »

Jeanne should beat DL legal Kimahri using those crappy AoE moves+nulling Kimahri's lacking damage 30% of the time anyways.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2015, 03:06:45 AM »

Nobody "casts" Auto-Life on the FFX PCs in the battles against the possessed aeons and Yu Yevon. The status simply persists, endlessly. Observe here. Wakka is killed, the Auto-Life animation kicks in, and the halo on Wakka's head (which indicates Auto-Life status in FFX) can already be seen.

EDIT: For FFT players, this is mechanically identical to the Chantage; the Auto-Life status is persistent. Of course the only (major) difference is that the FFT party can lose if everyone is dead before Auto-Life can kick in; this is not the case in FFX.

Thus it is completely impossible to make use of extra actions or time stopping to go through this status. Fatal status or GTFO. (I would also quibble with Snowfire about Yu Yevon being the source of this status, but it doesn't matter; the intent of the twink is clear.)

EDIT: Wait, he has a Ribbon? Uh then he can't even lose to petrify, and pretty much the only options are niche fatal statuses (e.g. Reno's Pyramid) or "I win the battle" effects (e.g. Overdrive Sin).

SnowFire · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2015, 03:48:03 AM »

Dhyer: Good point, forgot those ignored evade.

Elf: Weird, on how that works. I suppose that does strengthen the case for not even time stoppy effects working.

That said, according to the Internet, International's Dark Yojimbo can kill the party through Auto-Life with Zanmato, which has a dispel attached to it. I *guess* you could interp Aeon/Yevon battle PCs as having totally undispellable Auto-Life rather than constantly re-applied Auto-Life, in which case the dispel doesn't work and the PC lives, but since it seems an actual weakness of Auto-Life in-game and there's no way to tell the difference, I'd personally still be inclined to let damage-with-dispel attached also take down Kimahri. I'd also include revival-preventing effects in there: double-checking, apparently FFT Undead status might block FFT auto-life? Not clear, but something like that.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2015, 04:07:10 AM »

Quote

Weird, on how that works.

Personally I think the idea that Yu Yevon would get a free counter to cast Auto-Life is much weirder! <.<

You're right about FFT undead preventing Auto-Life... although I'll note that Ribbon blocks zombie, so that avenue is out! Actually, I suggest getting rid of that Ribbon. Maaaybe let him keep Stoneproof if you think stone is too cliche, but let's not ward off any more obscure status from beating him. And I agree that any statuses which successfully seal off revival should work. The problem is most such statuses go away upon death, allowing Auto-Life to still kick in. FFT undead is a notable exception, WA4 Disease (since it's hex-based; this does not apply to the status in WA1-3 or XF) is another one that works offhand.

Dispels that add damage also working is interesting, but while FFX has several such moves (for non-International players, the arena monster Th'uban has the same gimmick), I'm not certain they'd work in the final battles. It really depends how the game is maintaining the Auto-Life status. Either:

(a) the status is truly endless and undispellable, just like Auto-Haste can't be dispelled. In that case, moves which do "dispel and damage" would not work, because the dispel itself fails.
(b) the status is reapplied at the end of every action. While this would still prevent e.g. a Dragon Quest boss from using its first turn to dispel and its second turn to kill, it arguably wouldn't stop moves which both dispel and simultaneously do fatal damage.

There's no way to tell which, so if you want to go with (b) for general balance reasons, feel free.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2015, 04:53:35 AM »

Hmm, here are some other generals idea to be tweaked (just to throw things out there. I don't go heavy on twinking anymore, so I'm not great at remembering what is available).

Maxim starting with 100 IP with some sort of speed boost. I'm not sure this is good enough though unless there is also a way to make his damage notably better.

Old standbys: SO 2 Bloody Armor setups, VP eternal life setup, XG gears scaled versus non-gears
Potential: Some kind of Ryu 3 setups (I'll look at this one later). Maybe a full master layout (including stat boosting)+Shaman Ring
Some kind of nasty Pokémon twink focusing on normally DL illegal held items?? Not sure it's enough. Making things Bluelike is hard.
Tales of Vesperia- Some setup that makes Estelle near impossible to kill?

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2015, 05:57:53 AM »

Joachim Valentine
Spikes/Huge Jug/Extreme
Free Crest selection

Ten Fatestone Saruin

Shining Force Neo Max

...I think I'm thinking too small.

SnowFire · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2015, 10:33:49 PM »

If CK wants to keep the weird optional enemies to a minimum, a pretty "fair" opponent for this caliber... it's even a normal encounter and legitly killable in-game at this phase...

Adamantoise (FF13), scaled against a beginning-of-Chapter 11 party (see Elf's Cid notes for an idea of what this'd be like). Turtles! Heroes never back down.

Adamantoise is immune to first-strike / pre-emptive effects (!) and has absurd durability. For comparison, Cid has 226,800 HP; the Left/Right Forelegs are 356,200 HP; the Adamantoise itself is 5,343,000 HP. Also the legs & Adamantoise cut all damage to 1/10 normal, until you ground Adamantoise by killing the legs, in which case he merely halves damage. So we're talking 5-8 raw PCHP on the legs and 75-120 PCHP on the main body, + that defense (so really more like 50-80 effective PCHP on the legs, and assuming you wait for the legs to go down before attacking the main body, 150-240 effective PCHP on the body. If you ignore the legs, 750+ effective PCHP.) Oh and he'll regrow his legs after awhile of course if you didn't finish him. Good luck!

Anyway, in the realm of "PCs that have initiative then do something broken and win." I'm not really the FF5 expert around here, but since Elf didn't mention anything...

Lenna, Final Fantasy V, all equipment.
Use Elf's topic, except Lenna now has access to the mighty Masamune for Initiative. (and... I *guess* a Chicken Knife if it matters, and an Aegis Shield.) If this is seen as too weak, can just throw her all the skillsets, but she's probably fine as is.

And of course...

Tiz, Mayor of Norende, Bravely Default. All equips, customized pre-charged special moves, 3 SP.

Norende village is looking good! Use the BD PCs topic, except:
* Norende & chest gear. Notably this means Brave Suit, Ribbon, Fox Tail, various element-nulling shields, & a supply of Dark Matters. Legal use of status on weapons as well (e.g. assassin dagger).
* Tiz can walk into battle with a pre-charged & customized special move of his currently equipped weapon.
* "Send" and "Summon Friend" are unlocked. Conveniently enough, from random strangers, Tiz has five 100,000 damage specials ready to go from Summon Friend.
* He's stored up 3 SP and can use Bravely Second. (As a reminder, you can go into debt with SP just like BP, so Tiz can use a big BP cost move at 0 SP. Also as a reminder you can use Bravely Second on "turn 0" before even inputting commands.)
* Tiz has to win the fight in 1 real-world hour or else forfeit. (Aka no getting more SP.)

Nephrite · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2015, 11:08:50 PM »

I was considering nomming Wyl with the Seraphic Gate equipment (Omnicheck, Tri Emblem, Angel Slayer (tm), Eternal Garb) but I don't know if that's "hurrdurr super invincible guy" boring.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2015, 01:26:42 AM »

Hmm, here's a L2 Setup:

Selan DL legal+Egg Ring+100 Starting IP- 999 in all Stats. 2 PC HP, good defenses, Good damage (basic physical is probably near 500 damage, magic damage maybe in the 350 range? Rough guess on that), healing, can opt for status immunity. Just a well rounded time without being overdomineering in 1 stat. If not potent enough, switch in for Artea.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2015, 05:41:58 AM »

Quote from: Nephrite on May 01, 2015, 11:08:50 PM

I was considering nomming Wyl with the Seraphic Gate equipment (Omnicheck, Tri Emblem, Angel Slayer (tm), Eternal Garb) but I don't know if that's "hurrdurr super invincible guy" boring.

Just noting that I support a Wyl-gets-all-his-skills build cause that sounds fun.

Pyro · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2015, 06:36:39 AM »

Just a note, for the Ryu3 build, the Manly Clothes auto-life cancel Ryu's turn if he is KO'd before he gets a turn in-game. Makes them pretty worthless. He'd probably prefer things like Ivory Charms (Halve status/ID/elements, stackable) and Speed Boots (+10 Speed/apiece) and Spirit Rings (-50% AP costs... I don't think they stack...)

DragonKnight Zero · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2015, 09:35:57 AM »

Catastophe Barret

Missing Store
Mystile
any accessory default Ribbon

Materia setup in weapon
Counter + Mime, Counter + Mime, Counter + Mime, Counter Attack, Counter Attack (order matters)
Materia in armor
Master Magic, Master E. Skill, HP Plus, MP Plus, Odin + Added effect

All materia are mastered
Also allowed for use: W-Item, W-Magic, Master Summon, Time, Doublecut Knights of the Round is banned.
Has 4 Hero Drinks and 10 Elixirs available to use.

Starts with 254/255 Limit units Limit Level 4 assumed as default though can use another level if desired.

Back row assumed in a front row average.

Notes: Themed around the ability to mimic one's own limit breaks. At the slightest hit, he'll counter with his previous action 3 times and 2 more regular attacks and, due to limit mechanics, will have another turn to use his Limit. This will have initiative (to reflect ingame behavior) so the opponent will not have a chance to act if a Limit is used. If the opponent hits him again without it being fatal, heh heh heh. Even his regular attacks will leave a mark due to 800k AP in his weapon and the Mystile boosting his evasion and accuracy. Best to kill in one shot which will be a task due to durability.

Laggy · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2015, 12:36:27 AM »

Going to nom some classics just because I think they are cool and good Twink League staples, with some power upgrades sprinkled here and there.

Claude Kenni (SO2) - Choice of Levantine or Sacred Tear, Bloody Armor, two Atlas Rings.

Orlandu (FFT) - Set to Holy Swordsman, but has all equipment in the game available to him (standard optimized setup would probably be Excalibur or Chaos Blade/Secret Clothes or Power Sleeve/Thief Hat/Escutcheon II/Sprint Shoes or Bracer.) Secondary skillset is a fully mastered Math Skill. RSM is MP Switch, Attack UP, Move MP Up. Br 97/Fa 94. For those who like numbers, the speed-optimized setup is 21 Speed to 10.45 average (w/ his new speed and Haste both factored in) or 201%.

Yuna (FFX) - Custom weapon w/ First Strike, Ribbon, Auto-Haste, Evade & Counter. All aeons assumed legal, including Magus 3.

Xenogears (Xenogears) - Scaled vs non-Gear averages. Access to all equipment and accessories in-game.

SnowFire · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2015, 01:50:55 AM »

Is it possible for Claude to lose? (barring "I win the fight" effects or rare unimmunable fatal status, of course.) The previous Twink League denied Claude Energy Sword, but I'm guessing that Claude can generate enough TP with his basic attacks to endlessly spam a max'd Energy Sword. (It's a piddly 6 TP with Sacred Tear.) If he's fully damage immune & status immune...

(Granted, Kimahri is similar, but he doesn't have blanket status resistance anymore. Also *way* less damage if it matters.)

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2015, 01:56:28 AM »

That Claude setup can't regen MP in-battle, so you could theoretically run him out of resources, I guess. So uh.

Laggy · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2015, 02:00:57 AM »

Physical immunity, incredible attrition, or free healing + don't get OHKOed beat it off the top of my head. Probably some other random obscure shit too. I'd let Orlandu break his stuff for instance, that's not status (sure he immunes the damage, but yeah.)

His damage output is also staggered since he has to pause to use Energy Sword between attacks.

SnowFire · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2015, 02:13:51 AM »

Ah, it's been a long time, I thought that Star Ocean 2 had the Tales mechanic where basic attacks regen'd MP (In which case the Energy Swords would never ever stop). Fair enough.

SnowFire · « **Reply #24 on:** May 05, 2015, 06:57:45 PM »

One other nit:

Quote from: Laggy on May 03, 2015, 12:36:27 AM

Yuna (FFX) - Custom weapon w/ First Strike, Ribbon, Auto-Haste, Evade & Counter. All aeons assumed legal, including Magus 3.

Is it even possible to customize Ribbon & Auto-Haste onto weapons? (Not that it's a big deal, I'd assume "also has an armor available w/ Ribbon + Auto-Haste if she wants it" is fine, although that frees up 2 slots on her weapon for something).

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Author Topic: DL Twink League 2015 Noms (Read 2864 times)