Top 10 poll

[Scar]

Hi gang.

Random conversations with my coworkers led me to do this.

I'm gathering as many people that are willing to give me their top 10 favorite rpgs of all time. I want to see what the masses consider. I know I've sent a lot of you a pm already, but I reached my limit for the hour and super told me to make a thread anyways.

If you want to participate  (I'd love to get over 100 people's list) please send me a pm with your list in order can I can give them points.

I'm asking for pm so everyone's list is individual and so another person's list doesn't affect/alter/adjust you own games.

Any and all games you would consider are fine. I've gotten plenty of obscure games so far.

So please join in, and when I'm satisfied with enough lists, I plan to tally up the totals and make a grand project that I will share with you all.

Thanks again.

Scar, out!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Just to confirm: Is this a 'personal faves' list, or a 'objectively best quality games' list?

[Fenrir]

"Objectively best quality" is a lie


BTW Souls games are only ranked 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th best for me. They don't get to be third too.

[NotMiki]

Souls games, eh?  I wouldn't put them on a list like this because despite the fact that I love them to death I don't feel like I love them as RPGs per se.  Certainly they have RPG elements, are much more like RPGs than, say, the DMC series, but those elements don't have the kind of centrality to the game that makes me look at them first as RPGs.

[Fenrir]

Sorry Notmiki I really like you, but I cannot resist posting this now:

[Captain K]

BTW Souls games are only ranked 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th best for me. They don't get to be third too.

Third is obviously Stephen Universe: Attack the Light.

I also don't count the souls games as RPGs.

[Sierra]

I also don't count the souls games as RPGs.

>.>

[Cmdr_King]

A dude once called me retarded for saying Catherine wasn't an RPG.  Arguments about the matter always remind me of that.

Anyway I submitted my list to Scar, although truthfully anything after the top five could easily have changed position.

[Fenrir]

What about Mana gam-

OH NO NOT AGAIN

[superaielman]

Submitted already.

Fenrir: Your punishment is to play Dawn of Mana.

[NotMiki]

For the whole "is it an RPG" question, the relevant factor for me is whether I approach them as an RPG.  There's a whole constellation of factors, but one of the most important ones is whether it has a plot you really engage with.  So, for example, MMORPGs almost all fall outside the category of games I think of as RPGs, as (I assume, never played it) do western sandbox games like Skyrim (but not sandbox games where you're really going places plot-wise like the Fallout series).  I'm not trying to come up with a system for what counts and what doesn't here.  My gut tells me what counts, and I'm just trying to put it on paper.

p.s. Scar I'm down to my top 15, will post soonish.

p.p.s. if you want to engage in an intellectual exercise about what counts as an RPG, compare Vagrant Story to Devil May Cry.  If one counts and the other doesn't, it's hard to see where the difference lies other than that one seems to hold itself out as an RPG and the other doesn't.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The definition of RPG is incredibly arbitrary since it has nothing to do with role-playing so everyone's going to have their own. Generally speaking I'd say there are some games everyone who isn't trying to be a troll agrees are RPGs (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Ultima) and games that everyone agrees are not (Super Mario Bros., Madden, Doom), and I guess from there what is or isn't an RPG depends on how close it falls to a given genre pole? That's what I do, roughly, anyway.

Personally, I don't consider Dark Souls an RPG as it's waaay closer to DMC/Bayonetta (emphatically not RPGs to me) than anything I'd consider definitely an RPG; Castlevania and Zelda are in similar boats. On the other hand, Mana games do qualify as RPGs to me, due to things like having multiple party members and menu use for combat (spells)... even the storytelling style/progression. They're certainly more like Final Fantasy than they are like Zelda to me, let alone things which are even "less RPGish". But if someone else's definition is a bit different and encompasses different things then that's certainly not worth name-calling over.

[Grefter]

Action RPGs are Action RPGs and RPG mechanics are fluid systems that can be applied to other genres for alternate means.

Defining genres by mechanics is flawed, just like normal!

[jsh357]

I voted for 3 Souls games.  I definitely rank them under the Action RPG umbrella, even if the action is heavier than the RPG.  I can understand someone seeing it the other way.

[Cotigo]

I got opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/thred

[metroid composite]

So umm...you do know there's this topic called RPG ratings where lots of people have ordered the RPGs they've played, usually in sequential order, usually also with numerical ratings.

By all means, if you want to combine this data with data from other forums that's cool, but yeah, it's already there, you don't really need to get people to PM you a brand new list.

[Scar]

I figure this debate will be open for another week or so while I collect all the various lists.

I've got around 100 so far And plan to write up an article about the top 10 games most commonly seen in this survey.

I plan to also bring up series stats and random other things as well.

To top it all off I will create a spore quiz with the entire list from most voted to least. That way people can see where the games they picked ended up and see how many votes they accumulated.

this will take some time to complete. I appreciate all the help.

[DjinnAndTonic]

So umm...you do know there's this topic called RPG ratings where lots of people have ordered the RPGs they've played, usually in sequential order, usually also with numerical ratings.

By all means, if you want to combine this data with data from other forums that's cool, but yeah, it's already there, you don't really need to get people to PM you a brand new list.

That was kind of why I asked my first question: I assume that Scar's question is about people's "favorites", whereas the RPG Ratings topic is more about people trying to objectively judge how well-made a game is.

[Scar]

Correct.

This is more if one if those, "if you were stuck on a island (with working consoles...) what are the 10 rpgs you can't live without."

...

What silly imagery.

[DjinnAndTonic]

For a more realistic metaphor, try "You have limited suitcase space and you're moving to a foreign country that makes getting games in your native language really difficult, which ten games would you bring along?"

...>.>;;

[Excal]

So umm...you do know there's this topic called RPG ratings where lots of people have ordered the RPGs they've played, usually in sequential order, usually also with numerical ratings.

By all means, if you want to combine this data with data from other forums that's cool, but yeah, it's already there, you don't really need to get people to PM you a brand new list.

That was kind of why I asked my first question: I assume that Scar's question is about people's "favorites", whereas the RPG Ratings topic is more about people trying to objectively judge how well-made a game is.

Granted, it's a game.  If I enjoyed it enough to make it one of my favourites, then it's well-made.  If it has super awesome graphics, prize winning writing, characters with so many layers they put onions to shame, and mechanics that work like German clockwork, but I cannot bring myself to care about it, or am actively repulsed by the final product, then it has failed as a piece of entertainment, and has earned its 3/10 ranking.

[Grefter]

Would be interested in results (and see if anyone else has any taste in games).

[DjinnAndTonic]

So umm...you do know there's this topic called RPG ratings where lots of people have ordered the RPGs they've played, usually in sequential order, usually also with numerical ratings.

By all means, if you want to combine this data with data from other forums that's cool, but yeah, it's already there, you don't really need to get people to PM you a brand new list.

That was kind of why I asked my first question: I assume that Scar's question is about people's "favorites", whereas the RPG Ratings topic is more about people trying to objectively judge how well-made a game is.

Granted, it's a game.  If I enjoyed it enough to make it one of my favourites, then it's well-made.  If it has super awesome graphics, prize winning writing, characters with so many layers they put onions to shame, and mechanics that work like German clockwork, but I cannot bring myself to care about it, or am actively repulsed by the final product, then it has failed as a piece of entertainment, and has earned its 3/10 ranking.

Fair point! Many of the games I think of as the best-made are in my top ten favorites! However, there are a number of games that I look at objectively and see a lot of flaws in its design, but I enjoy them as a whole more than some of the ones I see as better-made.

Since we are limited to ten, it's an important distinction! I personally think Chrono Trigger is an amazing game, one of the most well-designed JRPGs ever, and it's certainly a favorite of mine. But it isn't one of my top ten favorites.

[Captain K]

Likewise Star Ocean 2 made my list despite being buggy as hell, having a boring intro, etc.

[Excal]

As to why the RPG Rankings topic is seen as being "objective" I suspect it's because the only way you can really get something objective out of something inherently subjective is by getting several subjective views and then aggregating them.  As such, the Rankings topic should have everything rated on a subjective "how much did I enjoy it" scale instead of a "how good do I really think it is" scale.  Or, that your top ten games there should be the same as the list of games you'd give to Scar.

As an added side note, if the general consensus was that individual rankings in the RPG Rankings should be objective instead of subjective, then the individual rankings should not only converge, but there should also be argumentation between participants as to what scores people are giving games.  Subjective means that it's all opinion and taste and you can't be wrong unless you're lying to yourself.  Objective means that there is, in fact, a correct score that is right independent of what anyone else thinks it should be, and that people can and should present arguments if you are not giving it the correct score.