Author Topic: Top 10 poll  (Read 9036 times)

Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 06:54:18 PM »
Also, I haven't updated my list in that thread in ages.

This is something entirely different.

I do appreciate all the submissions though.

I have over 150 lists now, all saved on an excel spreadsheet.

Hoping for 200+

Weeeeeeeeeee
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NotMiki

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 10:14:32 PM »
The whole "Objective" thing continues to mystify me.  What "Objectively good" really means is that you think other people will subjectively enjoy it, right?  Who?  You're imputing some level of familiarity with video games or RPGs to your target audience, right?  How do you decide what that target audience is?  What level of familiarity with RPG traditions?  If for example you think a game ought to be rated highly for something that it does that is innovative or groundbreaking...you're assuming that the audience you have in mind will have played enough RPGs to notice or care, right?  You're calling strikes and balls, but you're also deciding where the strike zone is.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 10:18:57 PM by NotMiki »
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Grefter

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2015, 10:28:35 PM »
It is easy Jim.

Objectively good is everything I like (except the stuff that is bad) and everyone else is inserting their agenda.


Jokes aside I think in the main thread here it is maybe just suggesting people take a couple of steps back and have some distance on the game?  I love FF8 but if I am going to review it and try to assign a number to it, even to other RPG fans, it isn't what I would think of as an 8/10 game like it is in my heart.  Trashy but fun can still influence my scorer in that situation, but I can't in all honesty rank it the same as I would something more technically competent and better written that I just don't care for.
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Excal

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2015, 11:40:03 PM »
Sounds like a good case of critically good as opposed to actually good.

Those films that critics love, with love worked into every shot, with technical skill and imagination infusing it from storyboards to last edit, where the characters and plot all have at least three layers of meaning going on from start to finish.  That will never gross more than 1% of what is made by whatever pap is getting spewed out by Michael Fucking Bay.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2015, 11:50:40 AM »
Hmm... I'm not suggesting that any one person can accurately judge something as 'objectively good'. I think the distinction here is in -trying- to. Like what Grefter said, give it some distance when judging.

I think everyone has games/media they consider 'guilty pleasures'. An 'objectively good' top ten list for a person would be listing all their subjective favorites -except- the ones they personally consider 'guilty pleasures'. You could probably try to make a more detailed criteria, but I think that's close enough for the distinction I'm asking about.

superaielman

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2015, 12:40:35 AM »
So umm...you do know there's this topic called RPG ratings where lots of people have ordered the RPGs they've played, usually in sequential order, usually also with numerical ratings.

By all means, if you want to combine this data with data from other forums that's cool, but yeah, it's already there, you don't really need to get people to PM you a brand new list.

That was kind of why I asked my first question: I assume that Scar's question is about people's "favorites", whereas the RPG Ratings topic is more about people trying to objectively judge how well-made a game is.

Granted, it's a game.  If I enjoyed it enough to make it one of my favourites, then it's well-made.  If it has super awesome graphics, prize winning writing, characters with so many layers they put onions to shame, and mechanics that work like German clockwork, but I cannot bring myself to care about it, or am actively repulsed by the final product, then it has failed as a piece of entertainment, and has earned its 3/10 ranking.

This times a fucking million. I gave FFX and Lufia
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superaielman

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2015, 12:42:39 AM »
So umm...you do know there's this topic called RPG ratings where lots of people have ordered the RPGs they've played, usually in sequential order, usually also with numerical ratings.

By all means, if you want to combine this data with data from other forums that's cool, but yeah, it's already there, you don't really need to get people to PM you a brand new list.

That was kind of why I asked my first question: I assume that Scar's question is about people's "favorites", whereas the RPG Ratings topic is more about people trying to objectively judge how well-made a game is.

Granted, it's a game.  If I enjoyed it enough to make it one of my favourites, then it's well-made.  If it has super awesome graphics, prize winning writing, characters with so many layers they put onions to shame, and mechanics that work like German clockwork, but I cannot bring myself to care about it, or am actively repulsed by the final product, then it has failed as a piece of entertainment, and has earned its 3/10 ranking.

This times a fucking million. I could care less about objective value, the point of a top ten listing is the games you got the most out of for whatever reason.
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Grefter

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2015, 01:38:48 AM »
Just to clarify, an awful lot of that sentiment of "objective value" from my end was more in context of the Rankings topic (and in context of it like 8 years ago...) than these top 10s.
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Excal

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2015, 07:16:12 PM »
I would argue that even in a ranking topic, unless you're the only contributor and it's for a wide audience, then subjectivity will make a better list than objectivity will.  Especially in something like the ranking topic we have here, where the whole point of value is a score gained by averaging multiple subjective valuations.

The one place where I would concede that striving for an objective valuation of a game has merit is something like a review.  Where you are attempting to not so much determine if you like a game, but if someone else might like a game.  At which point you need to be able to see it from a viewpoint outside of yourself.  It is still a fundamentally flawed method of doing things, but still the best method in spite of this.

Grefter

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2015, 09:45:57 PM »
And in a topic where people are assigning numeric values on "this is a 9/10 game", I don't really see how that is anything other than points of recommendation for things.  A pile of "this is worth this value to me" is worthless in a vacuum, but with other reviews/knowing the person/a giant list of all the games they like rated together is kind of that exact thing.

Every single time someone rated something going "I loved this game, but it is glitchy and crashes" they are doing that.
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Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2015, 05:42:20 AM »
Ok, gang.

I've eclipsed 200 lists.

I'm going to stop collecting them in a weeks time.

So, if you still wanted to participate, please send me your lists.

Once phase 2 starts, the list gathering period is closed.

Thanks for all your submissions.

This has been a fun study, but it's not close to finished yet!
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2015, 05:44:52 AM »
Okay, I can understand hitting us up for a top tens list of JRPGs, it's kind of our thing. And I'm sure you have a bunch of friends you can ask too. But even assuming you are super gregarious, I don't think these two sources add up to 200 lists. Can I ask where else you're polling ?

Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2015, 05:45:55 AM »
The internet.

Tons of different websites.

...tons.

Basically all the websites I ever made an account on, and have been unused for a good decade got a thread similar to this one.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 05:50:12 AM by Scar »
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2015, 05:54:26 AM »
I figured it would be the Internet, was just curious what other sites had a JRPG focus like ours that you were polling. Be interesting to see if there are trends by each community.

Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2015, 05:59:00 AM »
Rpgfan
rpgamer
something awful
gamefaqs
Shining forums
suikosource
ffxi boards
ign
animenation
spoony experiment forums
emu paradise
Raptr
brave frontier boards

and some others I'm sure I will forget to check because they are so obscure.

I couldn't recall my serene forest account or I'd post there too.
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2015, 06:25:08 AM »
Hmmm. I wonder if perhaps the Shining series, Suikoden, and FFXI will rate highly in the aggregate.

Grefter

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2015, 08:15:51 AM »
Skewed data can still be interesting data.
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Excal

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2015, 09:33:55 AM »
Hmmm. I wonder if perhaps the Shining series, Suikoden, and FFXI will rate highly in the aggregate.

No less so than FFT, I imagine.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2015, 06:23:57 AM »
A genuine random sampling on this would look just as weird, I think.

superaielman

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2015, 06:21:57 PM »
Also depends on what Scar sets as the miniumum for a game to make the list. It shouldn't skew too much barring Scar getting a massive amount of nods from the same place, which doesn't sound true here.
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Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2015, 07:07:20 PM »
Basically if you are the only one putting a game on your top 10, it's not going to make the cut.

Seeing as how I've listed over 300 games though, I may need play with some ideas on how to shorten up the final tally.
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NotMiki

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2015, 07:13:06 PM »
I'd be interested to see how far apart the aggregate responses from different communities are.
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Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2015, 01:36:33 PM »
That would be something I'd do lastly, if at all. As I have not separated every communities lists.

All the lists are in one giant excel spreadsheet.
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superaielman

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2015, 05:14:06 PM »
Basically if you are the only one putting a game on your top 10, it's not going to make the cut.

Seeing as how I've listed over 300 games though, I may need play with some ideas on how to shorten up the final tally.

Set a minimum number of nominations. That would eliminate outliers (Like say Shining Force 3 or Brig GE).
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Scar

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Re: Top 10 poll
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2015, 08:31:40 PM »
Right.

Im thinking 6 votes to get in works.

It means games with only a few votes get left off.

Besides, sporcle only allows the a maximum of 300 spots in their quizzes.
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