Author Topic: Nerf League: Week 1  (Read 3431 times)

Cmdr_King

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2015, 07:18:04 AM »
Godlike

Portable Minato (P3) vs. Dream Deported Lady (SH3)
Narshe Kefka (FF6) vs. Holy Warrior Reicher (MK2)
Surprise Kain Valvalis (FF4) vs. Redeemed Ghaleon (L2)
Bruiser Jade (BoF1) vs. Decelerated Divine Weapon (WA4)

Heavy

Underdrive TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Beached Doomwhale Kyogre (Pokemon)
Vincible Elc (AtL2) vs. Fall & Fire Don't Mix Holly (Wizard of Oz)- No vote.
Chivalrous Rika (PS4) vs. Non-explosive Jessica (DQ8)
PC Magus (CT) vs. Not hiding behind his so-called Goddess Billy (XG)
B-ending Riou (S2) vs. Type-1 Body T260G (Saga Frontier)
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2)- No vote.

Middle

Sniper Neimi (FE8) vs. Chivalrous Alys Brangwin (PS4)
Ether-drained MOMO (XS3) vs. Healer Yuna (FFX)
Lazy Blue (Saga Frontier) vs. Dark Flier Sumia (FEA)
Insomniac Ness (EB) vs. Lightweight Hilda (SH3)
Sharon the Astraphobe (LoL2) vs. Pro-Life Nina (BoF2)
Hoarder Shadow (FF6) vs. Agni'd Myria (BoF)

Light

Tiamat (FF1DoS) vs. Bird Jesus Pidgeot (Pokemon)
Actually mute Crono (CT) vs. Abandoned Deus (XG)
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4)
Super Trainee Amelia (FE8) vs. Doctor Feena (G1)
Dauntless Sanaki (FE10) vs. Speedrun Jack (WAACF)
Flowing Sasarai (S3) vs. Diamond Mog (FF6)

Puny

Ted (Suiko1) vs. Classic Hrist (VP)
Pacifist Riki (Saga Frontier) vs. Staff Girl Laura (FE10)
True Renaissance Man Serph (DDS) vs. Songstress Tear (TotA)
Milon1 (FF4) vs. Eliwood, Pupil of Jagen (FE)
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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2015, 03:08:33 PM »
Elf: Hmm, just checked the last 2 HM maps, which seem to have slightly more exaggerated stats (e.g. Gorgons are EVEN MORE resistant, Cyclops have even more Defense), but some of the vanilla middle-of-the-roaders seemed a tad tankier - Melee Wights were between -1 & +3, and Bow Wights were between +1 & +3, etc.  There's also Dracozombies which are huge huge DEF tanks although sure they're rare and Sacred Twin bait, but then again so is nearly everything else on the map.  (I'd definitely be inclined to count Cyclops myself, "being a badass" is an argument for being more relevant not less, if they force you to break out the broken for 'em that proves they matter or something.)

The boss point is good and one I agree with (if partially "luck" that the last two big enemies are both mages in Lyon & Riev), but I see that as a weighting reason to go from +3 or +4 Defense a la Dhyer to 'only' +2.  I think from the last 2 maps you end up with something like:

Wight (Melee) +1
Wight (Bow) +1
Maelduin +5
Elder Bael +6
Gwyllgi 0
Deathgoyle +9
Archmogall -9
Gorgon -10
Cyclops +14
Dracozombie +13
Bishop -3
Necromancer -4

That comes out to ~2.5 or so eyeballing it, which I'm happy to knock to +2 due to more boss weight + respect for earlier human Druids on C17 & the like.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2015, 04:11:47 PM »
The twelve you listed averaged out to 2, not 2.5. Also, there are two non-boss Dracozombies in the game outside of Ruins F10. If you're going to count them, you should certainly count Fomortiis as well, who is -5. Taking the 12 you averaged and tossing in Fomortiis for 13, the average is +1.46.

(edit: misremembered Fomortiis' res, sorry)

Another thing to keep in mind is that most high-Def enemies in the game are armour knights (and their promotions) or wyverns. Against these, a fighter can pull out a weapon which hits weakness on them (except archers vs. armour, but to make up for that they wreck all wyverns/gargoyles for free), so in practice their physical durability isn't as good as it looks. Against corresponding high-Res enemies, mages have no such recourse.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:00:24 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Pyro

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2015, 05:18:43 AM »
Godlike

Portable Minato (P3) vs. Dream Deported Lady (SH3): Lady had ways of getting around the BS.
Narshe Kefka (FF6) vs. Holy Warrior Reicher (MK2): Reicher's best stuff is Holy to start with, and Kefka doesn't resist Holy or anything...
Surprise Kain Valvalis (FF4) vs. Redeemed Ghaleon (L2): Not a boss slugger. Ghaleon has the lead in damage by a wide margin and if he loses speed it isn't by much.
Bruiser Jade (BoF1) vs. Decelerated Divine Weapon (WA4)

Heavy

Underdrive TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Beached Doomwhale Kyogre (Pokemon): TimeLord still has Status! But yeah Kyogre with his damage at 1/3rd probably can't even pick up a KO off Timelord... for all that he still has a 2HKO.
Vincible Elc (AtL2) vs. Fall & Fire Don't Mix Holly (Wizard of Oz): Holly still has her physical, her heal move (though that probably won't help), her sleep spell, and her Dispel. So Elc will want a Cure-All to prevent the Sleep (Which would prove very annoying on a perfect-AI Holly). That requirement brings Holly from an 8HKO to a 6HKO against him. But he'll be able to Divide her down while healing away all her damage for a while (until she has < AtL2 HP... or 1.5PCHP). At that point Holly has to finish him, and he's countering every time she attacks so he should pull it off.
Chivalrous Rika (PS4) vs. Non-explosive Jessica (DQ8): Saner and healing. Psy-Shield negates the fear of Sleep status. Jess can't do much else. (I nommed Chivalrous Rika, and I would have barred the Genocyber claw had I remembered it? How accurate was it? Guess it doesn't matter).
PC Magus (CT) vs. Not hiding behind his so-called Goddess Billy (XG): This comes down to a question of the ID that Magus has? Uh... Not sure.
B-ending Riou (S2) vs. Type-1 Body T260G (Saga Frontier)
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2): Lulu still has way too much good stuff... except for speed. Anyways I think she could doublecast some nasty status? Really we should punish Lulu for taking too many sphere grid slots. But we should probably take FFX at higher (in-game endgame) sphere grid levels and include optimum builds based on breaking into 'other' sphere grids for stats. Wouldn't that be fun and not a nightmare at all?

Middle

Sniper Neimi (FE8) vs. Chivalrous Alys Brangwin (PS4)
Ether-drained MOMO (XS3) vs. Healer Yuna (FFX)
Lazy Blue (Saga Frontier) vs. Dark Flier Sumia (FEA)
Insomniac Ness (EB) vs. Lightweight Hilda (SH3)
Sharon the Astraphobe (LoL2) vs. Pro-Life Nina (BoF2): Nina without Death kinda sucks, especially vs. Elemental resistance...
Hoarder Shadow (FF6) vs. Agni'd Myria (BoF): Jesus...

Light

Tiamat (FF1DoS) vs. Bird Jesus Pidgeot (Pokemon)
Actually mute Crono (CT) vs. Abandoned Deus (XG)
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4)
Super Trainee Amelia (FE8) vs. Doctor Feena (G1)
Dauntless Sanaki (FE10) vs. Speedrun Jack (WAACF)
Flowing Sasarai (S3) vs. Diamond Mog (FF6)

Puny

Ted (Suiko1) vs. Classic Hrist (VP): Why is Ted1 a puny exactly?
Pacifist Riki (Saga Frontier) vs. Staff Girl Laura (FE10)
True Renaissance Man Serph (DDS) vs. Songstress Tear (TotA)
Milon1 (FF4) vs. Eliwood, Pupil of Jagen (FE)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 05:58:28 PM by Pyro »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2015, 06:32:34 AM »
1. Yes, yes, we know you scale AS differently. Although, far be it for me to remind you about things about your view, but if you scale AS into damage you should scale it into durability as well (Last Hope swordmasters will certainly double the Garcia-tier speed PCs, heroes/mage knights may as well), making Amelia tankier, and... this is actually very problematic for Feena, see below.

2. I was assuming 1 def = 1 point of damage taken, yes. If you have more insight into how G1 Def works feel free to say! But I definitely remember the stat mattering, the def differences were considerably more notable than the HP differences. Granted, it was usually modifying an average boss damage of like 25-30% PCHP much of the time, of course, because Grandia 1, but still...

2a. I'm much more likely to close the Def/Res gap to zero than I am to expand it. The final chapter has a higher average enemy Res than Def (as does chapter 18 and probably 16, i.e. half of the final six maps), and almost every boss after your army promotes has more Res than Def, with the singular exception of Morva.

3. I used your stat topic's default averages for Grandia to calculate Feena's pdur.


For what it's worth I think Amelia may win even if she misses the 2HKO. She will still 3HKO with Iron + Iron + Silver (this almost kills average), and she shouldn't be doubled that way. While only 3HKOing gives Feena the ability to heal, I don't think it matters because Feena's damage positively drops off a cliff after the End of the World + two Zap Whips, and Amelia is notably average average pdur, and Feena can't heal very many times, nor is she fast enough to doubleturn at any point (in the CTB sense).


EDIT: Also, while not terribly relevant to the actual debate, I was curious about (4). Amelia with only storebought weapons can one-round wights, archmogalls, gorgons, and anything unfortunate enough to be unpromoted. She misses deathgoyles, maelduins, elder baels (so do all physical fighters), gwyllgis, and cyclopes (so does everyone else except bishops). She misses deathgoyles and dogs due to her speed, the rest due to her power. Is this below average overall for an FE8 unit? Yeah, I'd say so, but my views reflect this by having her have averagish power if she isn't afraid of doubles, and considerably below average damage if she is (and remember, average speed doubles her with silver, to my views). Note also that I don't respect her crit, which actually gives her an okay chance to kill some of the enemies I listed.

I was noting AS differences who might vote otherwise since it's easy to go on autopilot  (See me voting Odie over Rose in a past tournament, then switching my vote retroactively after it ended when I realized that I held a viewpoint that the consensus wasn't). I've always factored in HP proration, but it's a pretty paltry effect overall (only 3 PCs have a negative double rate and it's by small amounts). For me, Feena can put herself over the top with the L3 Fire magic.

Regarding defense versus Res, in chapters 15-19 you face 279 enemies, I believe. They average 8.3 Def and 4.2 Res.It's true that bosses are heavier on RES, but ones you would expect to have much higher Res are actually pretty close (Caellach is +2 Def, Valter is +1, Orson is +3 and Morva is +6 thanks to his weapon. So it's definitely not universal). Lyon is -2 Def in one form, -3 in another and Riev is -2 on both. The Medusa is the only boss with notably more RES. I weigh bosses 25%, but that still only puts the discrepency at -3 overall. Now if a lot of DEF tank enemies are able to be smashed by fighters with special weapons, that's definitely a consideration (and let's face it, a loser like Riev getting a 25% credit is pretty nice overall as I remember him being one of the least scary things on C19 by far). I'm guessing you mean the weaponslayers of C17?

C16 has about 1 point of defense over res on average. C18 has a whopping 11 enemies? Its effect is extremely small.

Of course, I might be underrated Amelia against endgame enemies...or more likely I'm overestimating their hideous speed. Regardless, my respect for her is pretty low (Granted, this might be because I've never recruited her as she has a nasty tendency to kamikaze on her recruit map (for me at least)).

As noted, I would be surprised if Grandia defense was worth a lot. I don't really remember Feena taking 25 extra per physical attack at endgame in comparison to Justin (which would be really noticeable). 12.5 might have been possible. Grandia buffs do suck, but it's because you could stack them 5 times. Assuming that the 10% boost is correct, 5 Diggin's is 50% Def up. If Grandia defense was 1:1, that should basically be nulling like all physicals (since Mullen doing 70 is...really high for Grandia). I would suspect that it's about as good at G2/G3.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2015, 06:33:50 AM »
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2): Lulu still has way too much good stuff... except for speed. Anyways I think she could doublecast some nasty status? Really we should punish Lulu for taking too many sphere grid slots. But we should probably take FFX at higher (in-game endgame) sphere grid levels and include optimum builds based on breaking into 'other' sphere grids for stats. Wouldn't that be fun and not a nightmare at all?

I thought that minus Kimahri, everyone in FFX had really closely matched sphere grids (in terms of length needed to max them)?
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2015, 02:43:10 PM »
They do. The thing with Lulu's sphere grid is mostly being very backended on terms of its real money stuff. But then, so is Tidus' in terms of his DL stat build, for instance, in which he simply leaps in STR, for instance. I'm not sure Pyro's complaint even makes sense.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 02:44:41 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2015, 03:28:46 PM »
Nah, Pyro's right, and Lulu's sphere grid is indeed the longest.

Quote
Regarding defense versus Res, in chapters 15-19 you face 279 enemies, I believe. They average 8.3 Def and 4.2 Res.It's true that bosses are heavier on RES, but ones you would expect to have much higher Res are actually pretty close (Caellach is +2 Def, Valter is +1, Orson is +3 and Morva is +6 thanks to his weapon. So it's definitely not universal). Lyon is -2 Def in one form, -3 in another and Riev is -2 on both. The Medusa is the only boss with notably more RES. I weigh bosses 25%, but that still only puts the discrepency at -3 overall. Now if a lot of DEF tank enemies are able to be smashed by fighters with special weapons, that's definitely a consideration (and let's face it, a loser like Riev getting a 25% credit is pretty nice overall as I remember him being one of the least scary things on C19 by far). I'm guessing you mean the weaponslayers of C17?

4 res? I just went through and looked at all the promoted enemy stats again, and the only thing that low was a single Berserker in C17 with 2, Warriors who range from 4 to 5, and Deathgoyles who range from 4 to 6. Vast majority are significantly higher, and the average, just eyeballing it, looks closer to 8-10. Though, I have not looked (nor do I care to) at unpromoted enemies, and if there are more with awful res than awful Def, that wouldn't shock me. Actually, they seem to have a bit more relative Def in general, e.g. Myrmidons have more Def than Res while Swordmasters do not. However, I feel unpromoted enemies are irrelevant to this discussion as they can be one-rounded by anyone promoted in general. For instance, the two unpromoted knights in Last Hope are +11, certainly the physically tankiest unpromoted randoms in the game, but Amelia one-rounds them anyway, without even using a heavy spear.

Orson is 0 actually (throne bonus), but yeah so is Lyon1 (gate). I thought both were -1 but I was remembering FE7 terrain bonuses.

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2015, 03:46:01 PM »
Nah, Pyro's right, and Lulu's sphere grid is indeed the longest.

Okay, my mistake. But I'm not sure how's that even relevant when the character sphere grids in-game get completed considerably sooner than endgame. As far as DL-legality goes, the complaint makes little to no sense.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2015, 03:54:39 PM »
It's not about DL-legality; nobody is suggesting Lulu lose abilities. It mostly means that there's an argument to take the stats/damage of other PCs a little higher. This would mostly have the effect of making Lulu's damage less ridiculously good (her durability shouldn't suffer because almost anywhere has more HP than her own grid, so even picking up a little of anyone else's goes a long way towards closing the gap). Here's a sample in-game damage avearge from the boss stat thread:

Tidus' Attack: 5581
Wakka's Attack: 8497
Lulu's Doublecast Flare: 35595
Kimahri's Attack: 8478
Auron's Attack: 7525
Rikku's Attack: 3086
Yuna's Holy: 15822
Average: 15422

Notice how her damage is "only" 92% here.

(To emphasise again, the above listed damage average is only a sample and should not be taken literally for any DL views.)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 03:56:33 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2015, 03:59:37 PM »
I see. It mostly goes without saying that an approach like that I'd only support with full numbers. I hate handwaving stats as is.

EDIT: Not to mention that's not the only factor in the general grid movement. For an instance, Yuna leaves the party for an actually notable amount of time and spends a fair amount of time playing catchup (she usually -does- catch up by Yunalesca, from my memory, but when she rejoined, for instance, she still was around Dispel while Yuna-grid Kimahri was already rocking Curaga). That has at least not much less of an effect on her growth than Lulu's longer grid.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 04:25:05 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2015, 05:57:52 PM »
Quote
Wouldn't that be fun and not a nightmare at all?
I see my musing has engendered discussion. Slippery slope to Yuna-for-Light hype, surely.

Also I didn't mean to actually vote on that match! Just analyze it. Since I never played PS2.

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2015, 06:04:52 PM »
Tangentially, I honestly don't really disagree with you on Lulu still being too damn good for Heavy even without Onion Knight. She's the one who suffers the least from lack of Celestials due to Doublecast and she can get 2x magic damage from other DL-legal sources if need be. Everything else is there - pseudo-parasitic healing, high-grade offense, brutally accurate ID, evasion from hell.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2015, 06:36:56 PM »
The psuedo-parasitic healing only helps in the shortest of fights without the Onion Knight, since Magic Booster without One MP Cost means a single dualcast of -aga + Flare costs a third of her MP. It's not a huge nerf (since it only applies in fights which take her over three rounds to win), but it don't think it's unreasonable to say that it's enough to cost her Godlike.

(Also Rikku suffers less from no celestial, in that if you don't allow Healing Water (and you really shouldn't), then she'll almost always want an Alchemy weapon instead, and even if you do allow Healing Waters the only thing useful from her celestial is Triple Overdrive. Actually, the only character who really hates you if you ban celestials is Auron; Kimahri and Wakka can get E&C other ways, Tidus will often want Sonic Steel anyway, and Yuna laughs at this conversation.)

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Pyro

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2015, 12:06:54 AM »
My notes for S-levels (unverified compared to the stat topic, say) were... Tidus 111, Yuna 113, Wakka 124, Lulu 132, Rikku 94, and Auron 96. I did this a while back so I may be misreading it a little. And some sphere-level expenditures were probably unwise/worthless (going on a sidelock for minor statboosts when bareling straight ahead is preferable in the short and medium and long term). Maybe someone else has better numbers.

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2015, 09:39:07 PM »
Unfortunately, my FE 8 saves were two computers ago (and for whatever reason, vGBA saves don't work on computer transfer, so I don't have enemy type breakdown). Which leaves me with just the chapter averages:

C15
Def- 5.75
Res- 3.5

C16
Def- 5.5
Res- 4.6

C17
Def- 7.3
Res- 3.4

C18 (Note basically 15-20% of the number of enemies of the rest of the maps)
Def- 5.8
Res- 8

Ch 19
Def- 8.3
Res- 4.4

Ch 20 (No Skeletons, which are just too horrible for any type of consideration in anything ever, IMO. What on Earth where the game designers thinking with those)
Def- ~9
Res- ~5

Unfortunately, I don't know if there is anything online noting enemy stats since they vary a little. I'd have to dig up an old computer I don't have readily available (or if anyone knows how to get vGBA saves to work on a new comp...). That said, the difference of 4 at base might be too much. So it might end up closer to 2. I wonder if I just didn't count bosses as much here because they were so few of them, and they were just...bad. I'm betting that might be it. They hate moving which does tend to cancel their strongpoints.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 09:53:37 PM by Dhyerwolf »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2015, 10:06:50 PM »
It's difficult to know what to make of those numbers because it depends what you count, but yeah the res in particular seems really low to me. As I said only the most magically frail promoted enemies have those figures. C15 to be fair is mostly unpromoted enemies (and generally is certainly too far from endgame for it to factor into this discussion), and C16-17 have a fair few as well, but C19-20 are just confusing me. As mentioned, only deathgoyles, warriors, and unpromoted enemies have res that low, and unpromoted enemies are trash (and make up less than 10% of the enemies in those maps anyway).

The wights aren't that bad, certainly better than say the aforementioned trash armour knights in C19. This matters because they are certainly better on res than you're saying! C20 melee wights have 8-10 res, and there are 16 of them, so they alone would pull up your res numbers a lot. They also have 36-40 HP, so this isn't some academic thing; a mage with 18 magic and Thunder will miss the 2HKO on them.

Serenes Forest is the best source I currently know of for this data, you can find it here. It's not complete (missing a bunch of Ephraim chapters and specifics on some of the Last Hope reinforcements, which is frustrating; I know I've seen a resource that has those but can't find it now). It's also HM, because like FE9 almost nobody discusses NM for FE8 (and I haven't played NM myself in about a decade). I guess there's a chance that Res specifically was buffed a bunch in HM, which would be weird and I am doubtful, but it's a possibility!

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2015, 09:09:39 PM »
In fairness to promoted versus not, I was just trying to get relative Def versus Res (so promotion might not really be that big an issue overall in that regard). But yeah, until I have access to that computer (if it still works and if I even remember then), unfortunately that's the most specific I can get (unless there are saves online, but I cant say I care that much).
...into the nightfall.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2015, 10:30:04 PM »
Godlike

Portable Minato (P3) vs. Dream Deported Lady (SH3)
Narshe Kefka (FF6) vs. Holy Warrior Reicher (MK2)
Surprise Kain Valvalis (FF4) vs. Redeemed Ghaleon (L2)
Bruiser Jade (BoF1) vs. Decelerated Divine Weapon (WA4)

Heavy

Underdrive TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Beached Doomwhale Kyogre (Pokemon)
Vincible Elc (AtL2) vs. Fall & Fire Don't Mix Holly (Wizard of Oz)
Chivalrous Rika (PS4) vs. Non-explosive Jessica (DQ8)
PC Magus (CT) vs. Not hiding behind his so-called Goddess Billy (XG)
B-ending Riou (S2) vs. Type-1 Body T260G (Saga Frontier)
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2)

Middle

Sniper Neimi (FE8) vs. Chivalrous Alys Brangwin (PS4)
Ether-drained MOMO (XS3) vs. Healer Yuna (FFX)
Lazy Blue (Saga Frontier) vs. Dark Flier Sumia (FEA)
Insomniac Ness (EB) vs. Lightweight Hilda (SH3)
Sharon the Astraphobe (LoL2) vs. Pro-Life Nina (BoF2)
Hoarder Shadow (FF6) vs. Agni'd Myria (BoF)

Light

Tiamat (FF1DoS) vs. Bird Jesus Pidgeot (Pokemon)
Actually mute Crono (CT) vs. Abandoned Deus (XG)
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4)
Super Trainee Amelia (FE8) vs. Doctor Feena (G1)
Dauntless Sanaki (FE10) vs. Speedrun Jack (WAACF)
Flowing Sasarai (S3) vs. Diamond Mog (FF6)

Puny

Ted (Suiko1) vs. Classic Hrist (VP)
Pacifist Riki (Saga Frontier) vs. Staff Girl Laura (FE10)
True Renaissance Man Serph (DDS) vs. Songstress Tear (TotA)
Milon1 (FF4) vs. Eliwood, Pupil of Jagen (FE)
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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2015, 01:18:13 AM »
Oh, this is still open...?

PC Magus (CT) vs. Not hiding behind his so-called Goddess Billy (XG)
Purely judgment call of whether Billy is in range for Black Hole.  Instinct voted yes.


Actually mute Crono (CT) vs. Abandoned Deus (XG)  Sure, go with the Rainbow criticals.
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4)  Reno isn't a threat to a Lv 7 party in-game

Reiska

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2015, 05:49:56 AM »
Godlike

Surprise Kain Valvalis (FF4) vs. Redeemed Ghaleon (L2) - No vote, don't remember L2 well enough for this one.

Heavy

Underdrive TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Beached Doomwhale Kyogre (Pokemon) - Kyogre's damage sucks here
Chivalrous Rika (PS4) vs. Non-explosive Jessica (DQ8)
B-ending Riou (S2) vs. Type-1 Body T260G (Saga Frontier) - See NEB
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2) - Even if I hype Rolf's luck in a theoretical PS2 where the stat works as being some kind of status resistance, I don't think it saves him from getting splattered by doublecasted ID.  That said, he's not outmatched in this division, it's more that Lulu is riding the borderline.

Middle

Sniper Neimi (FE8) vs. Chivalrous Alys Brangwin (PS4) - Yeah I think this works.
Lazy Blue (Saga Frontier) vs. Dark Flier Sumia (FEA) - Tower
Hoarder Shadow (FF6) vs. Agni'd Myria (BoF) - Sure.

Light

Tiamat (FF1DoS) vs. Bird Jesus Pidgeot (Pokemon) - Electric weakness = GG
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4) - Don't have much respect for Reno here
Super Trainee Amelia (FE8) vs. Doctor Feena (G1) - Pretty sure Dhyer's numbers are based on NM enemies, and FE8 is not a game I would ever consider NM as mattering in the DL due to it being horribly bugged.
Dauntless Sanaki (FE10) vs. Speedrun Jack (WAACF) - See NEB

Puny

Ted (Suiko1) vs. Classic Hrist (VP) - Probably too good for the division?
Pacifist Riki (Saga Frontier) vs. Staff Girl Laura (FE10) - Endless match, but Riki's damage is slightly better so I guess he takes it
Milon1 (FF4) vs. Eliwood, Pupil of Jagen (FE) - lol

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2015, 11:00:44 AM »
Godlike

Portable Minato (P3) vs. Dream Deported Lady (SH3)
Narshe Kefka (FF6) vs. Holy Warrior Reicher (MK2)
Surprise Kain Valvalis (FF4) vs. Redeemed Ghaleon (L2)
Bruiser Jade (BoF1) vs. Decelerated Divine Weapon (WA4)

Heavy

Underdrive TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Beached Doomwhale Kyogre (Pokemon)
Vincible Elc (AtL2) vs. Fall & Fire Don't Mix Holly (Wizard of Oz)
Chivalrous Rika (PS4) vs. Non-explosive Jessica (DQ8)
PC Magus (CT) vs. Not hiding behind his so-called Goddess Billy (XG)
B-ending Riou (S2) vs. Type-1 Body T260G (Saga Frontier)
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2)

Middle

Sniper Neimi (FE8) vs. Chivalrous Alys Brangwin (PS4)
Ether-drained MOMO (XS3) vs. Healer Yuna (FFX)
Lazy Blue (Saga Frontier) vs. Dark Flier Sumia (FEA)
Insomniac Ness (EB) vs. Lightweight Hilda (SH3)
Sharon the Astraphobe (LoL2) vs. Pro-Life Nina (BoF2)
Hoarder Shadow (FF6) vs. Agni'd Myria (BoF)

Light

Tiamat (FF1DoS) vs. Bird Jesus Pidgeot (Pokemon)
Actually mute Crono (CT) vs. Abandoned Deus (XG)
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4)
Super Trainee Amelia (FE8) vs. Doctor Feena (G1)
Dauntless Sanaki (FE10) vs. Speedrun Jack (WAACF)
Flowing Sasarai (S3) vs. Diamond Mog (FF6)

Puny

Ted (Suiko1) vs. Classic Hrist (VP)
Pacifist Riki (Saga Frontier) vs. Staff Girl Laura (FE10)
True Renaissance Man Serph (DDS) vs. Songstress Tear (TotA)
Milon1 (FF4) vs. Eliwood, Pupil of Jagen (FE)

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Re: Nerf League: Week 1
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2015, 04:07:07 AM »
Results.  Too much agreement in general!  Only 1 match with more than 1 dissenting vote, I think....

Portable Minato (P3) vs. Dream Deported Lady (SH3)
Narshe Kefka (FF6) vs. Holy Warrior Reicher (MK2)
Surprise Kain Valvalis (FF4) vs. Redeemed Ghaleon (L2)
Bruiser Jade (BoF1) vs. Decelerated Divine Weapon (WA4) (5-2)

Heavy

Underdrive TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Beached Doomwhale Kyogre (Pokemon)
Vincible Elc (AtL2) vs. Fall & Fire Don't Mix Holly (Wizard of Oz)
Chivalrous Rika (PS4) vs. Non-explosive Jessica (DQ8)
PC Magus (CT) vs. Not hiding behind his so-called Goddess Billy (XG)
B-ending Riou (S2) vs. Type-1 Body T260G (Saga Frontier)
Knightless Lulu (FFX) vs. Reasonable Rolf (PS2)

Middle

Sniper Neimi (FE8) vs. Chivalrous Alys Brangwin (PS4)
Ether-drained MOMO (XS3) vs. Healer Yuna (FFX)
Lazy Blue (Saga Frontier) vs. Dark Flier Sumia (FEA)
Insomniac Ness (EB) vs. Lightweight Hilda (SH3)
Sharon the Astraphobe (LoL2) vs. Pro-Life Nina (BoF2)
Hoarder Shadow (FF6) vs. Agni'd Myria (BoF)

Light

Tiamat (FF1DoS) vs. Bird Jesus Pidgeot (Pokemon)
Actually mute Crono (CT) vs. Abandoned Deus (XG)
Anti-Egyptian Reno 1 (FF7) vs. Prince (of the) Light Edge (FF4)
Super Trainee Amelia (FE8) vs. Doctor Feena (G1)
Dauntless Sanaki (FE10) vs. Speedrun Jack (WAACF)
Flowing Sasarai (S3) vs. Diamond Mog (FF6)

Puny

Ted (Suiko1) vs. Classic Hrist (VP)
Pacifist Riki (Saga Frontier) vs. Staff Girl Laura (FE10)
True Renaissance Man Serph (DDS) vs. Songstress Tear (TotA)
Milon1 (FF4) vs. Eliwood, Pupil of Jagen (FE)