An Aesthetic Discussion Spanning 17 Years - Andrew vs Pokemon - DAILY UPDATES!

[Meeplelard]

Probably not a bad idea, honestly.  I mean, yeah, a bunch of us can recognize Pokemon by appearance on the fly, but for those who are just interested in the analysis of the design and would like a name to go along with it, wouldn't hurt.

I'd do a list for ones we've done this far but wouldn't really help the issue that much, probably easier Andrew just edit them in.  Nonetheless, at very least, names should be placed alongside the picture, that much I agree, and I say this as someone who generally doesn't need them.

EDIT: Regarding the Poison vs. Ground thing?  I find it weirder to forget the Poison thing seeing as they're Mono Poison in the first 2 stages and only get Ground in the final stage myself, and you deal with so many of them in the first two stages while King and Queen are fairly rare, so the poison weakness you're exploiting all the time, rarely the Ground one.  Also the female line I believe learns Poison Sting early for some poison association, while there's no innate ground moves.

From a design perspective, I've always been apathetic to Nidos.

[AndrewRogue]

Your wish is my command, Zenny.

That said, I will say you all are right from a typing perspective the designs are pretty fail and I think I'm just so used to thinking of them as poisons that the little associations (color, spines, etc) just cue correctly to me as do the gameplay elements. Visually the poison thing is super indistinct unless you pick up on very debatable clues and, yeah, I honestly forgot about the ground typing on the final evos too. Was too busy being mad about the bikini cut.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Which is, of course, entirely reasonable.

[Hunter Sopko]

I prefer the original Nidoking picture. The resting, don't-fuck-with-me look manages to be a lot more menacing than any of the action shots that've come out later. Also plays up the spikes more.

[Lady Door]

Dude, where are the pokemen?

[AndrewRogue]

Clefairy: I'll be honest. I love Clefairy and I dunno why. I guess it is just a very good sprite design. The very simplified body allows for a humanoid shape without being odd or grotesque. The legs and arms have just enough length to not be stumpy (and the little claws are nice), the face is adorable (Pikachu clause here) and the hair tuft and ear colors are just nice touches. I dunno. The little wings really add to the mystique too. I dunno, might be biased from portrayals in other media where they are a little less overall round? Still, I like it. 4/5

Clefable: Evolution pattern is nice, since it is both distinctly the same but a bigger and stronger Pokemon, but eh? I dunno. I want to like it, but I can't. It might just be little things, like the loss of the impish expression or the significantly longer body not working for me? I'm pretty sure other media has had better versions of it, but the image I'm looking at right now is just bugging me. 2/5

Vulpix: Goddamn fucking adorable/10. Another one of the top designs in Pokemon, IMO. Accurately captures the idea of an animal while adding some unique elements to make it fantasy. The colors work well, the swirled coat and tail are wonderful little touches and the colors blend nicely while at least suggesting Vulpix's type. And I never noticed, but Vulpix has socks! ADORABLE SOCKS. Vulpix eyes are kinda weird though, but they work. 5/5

Ninetales: Another design I love, though one you could argue about how good a follow-up to Vulpix it is? The complete colorshift and the loss of curls is pretty jarring (though it does keep the upper tuft and the unusual eye texture). The design would probably have benefitted from a bit more color (the golden hue, while nice, does lead to it looking sort of washed out), but the mane-ish thing proves some good body texturing. Look, I can't unilaterally say the design has no issue, but I love it, okay? 5/5

: Jigglypuff: You know, this design works better than I was prepared to say and I'm not sure why. Probably the massive eyes and the very minimal attempts with arms and feet? I mean, I'm not especially enamored by it, but I can't in good faith say it's a bad design. It's cute in an odd way and looks like something that works in context of the world. Minimalism is probably saving it here. 3/5

Wigglytuff: I hate this one. And once again I was expecting to label it as utterly terrible, but buckling down for a second and looking at it... I can't... really bring myself to say it? Like, it's once again saved by minimalism and playing to the "cute." The ear design feels really out of place, though. Which is probably better for it. I think looking more rabbit like would have been really bad for Wiggly. 3/5

Zubat: I like Zubat's design. This is a bat taken to it's logical extremes. Bats don't see well? Fuck his eyes! He don't need them! Bats bite stuff with fangs! FUCK YOU HE HAS A GAPING MOUTH WITH DEADLY TEETH. Bats have freak mixtures of fur and skin? Screw you, he's blue and smooth! The lack of feet is weird though. It looks good, but I have trouble thinking if how Zubat relaxes after a hard day of fucking with people in caves for hours. Seriously though, Zubat feels like a pretty iconic "this is a pokemon" design to me. 5/5

Golbat: Pfffffffffffft. Hey, look. We took that neat eyeless design and gave him stupid tiny eyes. Hey, look. We took that neat gaping maw and made it utter ridiculous! Hey, look, we took those neat tendrils and made them look like cartoony feet! Fuck Golbat. Fuck this son of a bitch. 1/5

Oddish: Nothing to write home about, but I like him. If you were designing a sentient plant creature this feels like a design you'd naturally make. Beauty in simplicity, I guess. I'm starting to notice a lot of Pokemon have red eyes. 3/5

Gloom: Not a big fan. Suffers from that "take a basic design and add more awkward stuff to it" problem. Like, he isn't overcomplicated or anything. It just looks weird to have more stuff on that ultra simple body. The leaves to flower thing also doesn't follow particularly well to me either. Not the worst design in the world or anything, but I don't like it. 2/5

Vileplume: I should've stopped. I actually have no idea how to deal with Gloom or Vileplume and I can't quite put into words what bugs me about them. Oddish works for some magical reason (maybe just the roundness and lack or arms) while Gloom and Vileplume don't. The idea for Vile's flower is nice, but it is actually kinda less interesting to look at than Oddish's leaves were, which is weird. This design just somehow looks less interesting/engaging. 2/5

[AndrewRogue]

Adding a numeric score so I can do stats as I finish generations and stuff. Using a 5 point scale because a 10 point scale is too finagly for me. Might change my mind later.

[Fenrir]

I'd like to say that your taste is terrible but you did make me appreciate Fearow.
What a badass.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Vulpix line fanboyism 10/10, would read again.

I personally quite like Vileplume. The Rafflesia design is nicely evocative of the original 'rotting meat flower' while cleaned up enough that it just looks like a cool flower petal design instead of something grotesque. It also has a cute enough little face to match Oddish's. I absolute abhor Gloom though. It is basically my first example every time I think about "pokemon middle evolution syndrome", because it literally looks like this deformed melted Skittle and we're supposed to believe it connects the adorable Oddish to the still-adorable Vileplume? Ugh.

[Grefter]

What fucking flower is shiny?

[Dark Holy Elf]

I never understood why Gloom was randomly drooling. That would have made for an awesome sleep animation in games which have specific sleep animations, but normally? uhhh

I like Jigglypuff quite a bit (not a personal favourite, but accomplishes its adorable look well and I think there is a reason it caught on as a fan favourite) but Wigglytuff just completely does not work for me. It's admittedly even worse by the RBY sprites (see here) where it just looks creepy, but in general I'm just not sure what the design is going for. The longer body and changes to the tuft and feet all make it look less cute, and thus the eyes now just look totally out of place instead of part of a larger design? I'm not sure. (Igglybuff also does not work for me, but I guess we'll save that for quite a bit later.)

Agreed on Zubat >>> Golbat, fortunately in any game past the first you have Golbat for approximately one level before it evolves back into something cool.

[Meeplelard]

Just going to echo to Golbat hate; I've always felt it looked like just a giant fat bat that was blue.  I mean, the first time I saw it in the Anime it wasn't so bad, but outside of that? It's just blech.

[AndrewRogue]

Paras: Simultaneously adorable and horrifying. It's actually a pretty neat design, though, seriously, the adorable giant eyes really only add to the horror. Also, the clearest dual type ever. It's a bug with plants on it. 4/5

Parasect: Another very solid evolution that amplifies it's previous design. It's a bigger bug with a bigger mushroom! Also it's freaky as hell. Look at those dead eyes. LOOK AT THEM. They eat your soul. Seriously, pretty simple design that looks great. Another definitive "this is a pokemon" to me. 5/5

Venonat: Another round design. I kinda like him, though. He's got a good bug face that works oddly well with that fuzzy little body. We can also add him the legion of purple pokemon. There's a lot of them. 4/5

Venomoth: Honestly, despite it being disproven, I really buy the Venonat was supposed to become Butterfree theory. The design follows a LOT more logically than Venomoth's. That said, Venomoth looks pretty decent too? He doesn't really scream "moth," but he's got some neat design elements to his face (the crest, the fangs) and the fuzzy thorax is cool. Colors are pretty bland though. 3/5

Diglett: First you draw an arch. Then you draw the rest of the Diglett. Really simple design that functions. WHAT DOES IT'S BODY LOOK LIKE? 3/5

Dugtrio: It's three Digletts. I dunno what you want out of me. The concept isn't terrible or anything? 3/5

Meowth: Not a big fan. The face and colors are pretty good, but the bipedal body looks really weird, giving him this simultaneously lanky and chubby look. I get the reference and it's cute, but I really dislike the overall structure. 2/5

Persian: I like this design much more. This is a mean, murderous death cat. The face retains some nice elements of Meowth's (the whiskers, the head adornment) and the shared tail is interesting. The loss of color... I think it's for the better (gives a fancy, regal look), but Persian really needed something to replace it to make it's body look more interesting. More obvious fur or something. Overall, while I do tend to favor simpler designs, I think this one just doesn't do enough. Also, that curled tail looks weird. 3/5

Psyduck: It's a chubby, bipedal, yellow duck with dopey hair and seriously dilated eyes. I really shouldn't like it given some of my tastes, but honestly? It really nicely captures it's concept. 3/5

Golduck: So, independently, this is a really cool design, blending elements of Kappa and duck into a pretty awesome killing machine. Look at those sharp claws. Look at that muscular bod. Look at that beak that speaks to both being a duck and sharp. Lot of nice little features. Boy does it not really look like it comes out of Psyduck. Completely different color and build and all that. Still, he looks good. Shoulda been part psychic. 4/5

[DjinnAndTonic]

This whole set is basically the "wow those are forgettable" set of pokemon. Nothing really -wrong- with them, but Pokemon could axe them from the series and I'd not bat an eyelash.

Paras/ect is probably the one I like the most out of them, but even that's just because I think cordyceps are neat. But Paras does NOTHING with it They could have given him a Ghost typing or something to reflect the whole zombie mushroom thing. Though that probably wouldn't have worked in Gen 1 as well as it would work now? Hey, maybe a fun idea for a Mega Evolution?

[Fenrir]

Paras/ect are so cool. Definite best pokemon design out of all of them. Creepy as hell. I'm glad to see they get proper recognition here.

[Grefter]

Y'all are wrong about Diglett.  Diglett and Dugtrio are the second best designed pokemon ever.  Minimalism is life.

Persian should have kept the socks and the tail colouring since he is such a riff on Siamese cats.

I don't care about Paras or Parasect, just will note that Paras has Vagina Dentata.

[Captain K]

Parasect is the best pokeymans and anyone who doesn't agree is a poopyhead.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Also, the clearest dual type ever. It's a bug with plants on it.

Worst thing written in this thread. If there was any justice, the entire DL would have responded with this, switching in the words mushrooms and plants.

Not really a huge fan of the Paras line, but then I never found it remotely creepy. Might have helped if I knew about cordyceps back in the 90's? I dunno. I also don't like Golduck; it comes from a distinct-looking first stage and sheds everything memorable about it, leaving you with some generic blue hodgepodge aquatic monster (with a stat build just as boring as it is). So yeah, I'm with Djinn, this is a weak set. I do like Meowth/Persian, but you'd probably have to try pretty hard to screw up a cat-inspired design for me.

[Meeplelard]

Just echoing the "yeah, meh set" here.

[Captain K]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2RBTyckuD8

I never knew that Arbok had a different design for each region of the game.

[AndrewRogue]

Mankey: Hey, another round pokemon, but one I absolutely love. The pig nostril is kinda weird, but overall the strange body shape works. Coloration is good, rough fur makes it look rough and tumble and accents the angry eyes quite well. Despite being a furious beast, you can see some hints of the martial arts background in it's posture. 5/5

Primeape: Let's start with the good. Primeape looks bigger, angrier, and fiercer. The anime anger vein is a bit odd, but it functions, and the longer and spikier fur is excellent. I don't like the loss of fur coverage on the arms and legs, since it really amplifies the strange roundness of Primeape. I was on the fence about the feet and hands, but I think I've decided the gloves look is pretty good, because it further amplifies the "I'ma beat you guys look." The wrist and ankle decorations are whatever. 3/5

[AndrewRogue]

Also, sorry I've been lazy about responding to comments. I am reading them all and gnashing my teeth angrily, I promise.

And yeah, Arbok's variant thing is super cute because it is mentioned in it's pokedex entry.

[AndrewRogue]

Growlithe: Ehhhhhh. Let's start with the good. Great body. The coloration is fantastic and, although it conveys tiger, helps with the fire typing. The chest floof is great as is the tail. Body is pretty good too., though those stub feet with claws are a bit weird on dogs. The face, however, I hate. This is a pretty standard thing for me. I hate snub-faced dogs. The small of the bulge only makes it look goofier here. So I'm torn. Ultimately, I'll give the body credit over the face. 3/5

Arcanine: Good evolution ahoy. Takes everything good about Growlithe and amplifies it, while getting rid of the dumb snub face for the most part. Those rear leg floofs are hella weird, though. 4/5

Poliwag: Your lips are stupid. Otherwise a perfectly passable design. It's a tadpole! Lookit those adorable eyes! 3/5

Poliwhirl: His swirl goes the other way! Also he's got arms and not tail. And the stupid lips are gone and replaced with stupid gloves. I... am kind of stumped here. I mean, it does capture the idea of a frog weirdly well, but it doesn't do much for me. At the same time, I can't really bring myself to hate it? Bah. You know what? Gloves are dumb. 2/5

Poliwrath: Pidgeot clause, except worse. 1/5

[Grefter]

Arcanine: Good evolution ahoy. Takes everything good about Growlithe and amplifies it, while getting rid of the dumb snub face for the most part. Those rear leg floofs are hella weird, though. 4/5

It is fire.  It is a fire dog.  It's legs are supposed to look like fire.

Poliwhirl: His swirl goes the other way! Also he's got arms and not tail. And the stupid lips are gone and replaced with stupid gloves.

What is that?  Neo is evolving!

[AndrewRogue]

I get the idea. I'm just stuck thinking about the FF7 logo looking at the back ones. I think they'd be fine if they were more similar to the front ones. The intensive of the back ones just looks clunky.