Author Topic: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper  (Read 214919 times)

Shale

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2775 on: June 10, 2016, 10:32:44 PM »
Browsing the subreddit and holy shit the new JP banner is uncut Scar fanservice.

Kain's new BSB, Dragoon's Pride:

On activation, 4-hit AOE lightning jump damage (physical), En-Lightning and activate burst mode.
Burst Command 1: 2-hit ranged ST lightning physical damage, jumps have no airtime for two turns after use.
Burst Command 2: 2-hit ranged ST lightning physical damage, restore one ability use (prioritizes ability with lower # of remaining uses)

JESUS CHRIST. Infinite Jump Works is real.

EDIT: And this event also debuts a new 5* lightning-elemental jump ability. Oh, and the weapon itself boosts lightning damage.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 10:36:55 PM by Shale »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2776 on: June 10, 2016, 10:41:01 PM »
Yeah, I thought the relic was designed by Scar himself. It singlehandedly punts Kain from the low echelons straight to top tier.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
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Meeplelard

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2777 on: June 11, 2016, 04:12:22 AM »
Finished the FF13-2 Event.

Chaos Bahamut I mage Meta'd.  Set up in short was:

Terra: Firaja, Magic Breakdown, Devotion (Magitek Missile/Trance Flood)
Kuja: Memento Mori, Dark Zone, Dark Damage+20% RM (has his En-Dark Soul Break)
Lulu: Blizzaja, Drainga, Mako's Might (Focus)
Vanille: Shellga, Curaja, Knight's Charge (Oerba's Boon)
Tyro: Full Break, Tempo Flurry, Dr. Mog's Teachings (Sentinel Grimoire)
RM: Divine Guardian

One reset due to opening with an unmitigated Umbral Visage on Vanille turn 1, which 5k damage.  2nd attempt, he opened with Haste, which while annoying, is at least not "someone dies immediately, enjoy!"

Caius...I beat my first try.  I am honestly extremely disappointed in this fight; people went on about how it's like the HARDEST FIGHT EVER, Kuja on crack, better than Cagnazzo, etc.

...yet, I had no trouble with him.  NOw yes, I did have native Trinity, which obviously helps, but people were acting like "even with that it's hard!"  Team for him was:

Beatrix: Saint's Cross, Banishing Strike, Dragoon's Determination (Seiken Shock; she also used Excalibur-6 for +20% damage)
Auron: Lifesiphon, Double Cut, One-Eyed General (Banishing Blade; he was using Blazefire Sabre)
Ramza: Lifesiphon, Armor Break, Mako's Might (Shout, Throw Stone)
Vanille: Shellga, Curaja, Knight's Charge (Oerba's boon)
Tyro: Full Break, Magic Breakdown, Dr. Mog's teachings (Sentinel Grimoire)
RW: Mighty Guard-VIII.

Why Mighty Guard-VIII? Mostly to compensate for lack of Heavy Regen due to not using Yuna, and it let me Hastega and Shellga on the same turn. 

That said, these fights do emphasize that I don't have to rely on Yuna as my healer anymore and that I can use Vanille, at least so long as I bring a Heavy Regen RW.  I'll probably stick to Yuna for fights where only one of Shellga or Protectga are needed, but ones where I need both, Vanille really does feel like a legitimate alternative. 

It contrasts Aerith and Eiko who both have Medicas too, but they're kind of crappy (Reraise vs. Heavy Regen! ...yeah no)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 05:18:02 AM by Meeplelard »
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Magic Fanatic

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2778 on: June 11, 2016, 04:18:21 AM »
U+ beaten.

That was a stupid amount of S/Ling before the first turn since Caius basically has a 60% chance of instagibbing someone pretty much instantly.

Selphie L80 - Curaja R5/Shellga R2 - Knight's Charge - Dreamstage
Faris L62 - Magic Breakdown R3/Power Breakdown R3 - Sea Lord's Broadside - Battleforged
Bartz L77 - Lifesiphon R4/Drain Strike R5 - Trueblade of Legend - Ace Striker
Ramza L78 - Armor Breakdown R3/Full Break R2 - Shout - Mako Might
Tyro L80 - Banishing Strike R4/Protectga R2 - Sentinel's Grimoire - Dr. Mog's Teachings
RW: Divine Guardian

Selphie's using Vanille's Wyrmfang, Faris was throwing possessed vegetables, Bartz stole Fang's Spear, and Tyro was having fun trying to cosplay as Neo with Sazh's Deneb Duellers and Sephiroth's Coat.

Winning run had Caius playing fair (his first shot of Body and Soul came up when Faris was charging her SB, for instance), and ended with Ramza dead when Caius was at like 25% remaining.  FF5 rules, Shout is Shout, Meeple made me eat my hat for doubting my getting SG during the last festival, and Selphie's Dreamstage is awesome.

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2779 on: June 11, 2016, 05:08:40 AM »
FF13-2 event done as well. Bahamut Chaos was mostly unnotable besides dealing 5k to Ramza with Umbral Visage unmitigated on the first turn. Set up SG, set up Shout, set up Shellga, set up Protectga, breakdowns and go to town. He felt frankly frail, even, but when you're dropping 20k damage Dark Zones every turn, most things feel that way.

Caius... honestly was -sorta- disappointing and my getup isn't as stacked as Meeple's. I ended up running this setup:

L80 Lightning - Lifesiphon R4/Dismissal R4 - Master Sniper
L80 Bartz - Lifesiphon R4/Power Break R5 - Battleforged
L80 Beatrix - Shellga R2/Banishing Strike R4 - Pride of the Red Wings
L80 Ramza - Magic Breakdown R4/Full Break R3 - Dr. Mog's Teachings
L65 Y'shtola - Curaja R5/Protectga R2 - Mako Might

Will of the White Mage RW

With Veil of Adel and Wild Bear on Y'sh, along with back row on over half the party, I had good enough durability that Caius more or less couldn't instagib anyone on his initiative actions. One S/L because he dropped back to back Giga Gravitons on a doubleturn and gibbed Y'shtola. The main thing with him is that you really want to have Full Break at the ready along with Banishing Strike every time he Body and Souls unless you want to risk his obscene buffed offense: I saw a 2k Giga Graviton -once- and that nearly cost me my winning run. I lucked out with him using his dinky physicals on the people who could survive them for the following two turns, though, and then things looked back up. Beatrix was also very clutch: Banishing Strike is really useful here and having both Protect and Shell was paramount for my survival. The occasional 13k damage Stock Breaks also didn't hurt and one of them served as the finishing strike on Caius. In hindsight, I could've swapped Y'shtola with a different healer - possibly even Cait Sith! - and run SG as a RW instead, but Will of the White Mage was a good panic button. Lost one medal on damage, but otherwise a solid mastery. I'll certainly take it, considering no one died in the end.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Meeplelard

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2780 on: June 11, 2016, 05:16:56 AM »
Honestly, that opening phase feels like the only tricky part.  I got lucky and he attacked 3 different characters (Tyro in back row eating Launch), but once you get past the RNG Bullshit of his first turn, it seems like a pretty straight forward fight.   It's no different than Kuja, except you aren't worried about turn management as much since Caius has 3 conditions to fulfill, not two, so you can win with the usual 2 Damage, 1 Turn loss...

Interestingly, I won with only 2 Medal losses (both on damage) against him anyway.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2781 on: June 11, 2016, 08:03:04 AM »
Honestly, sounds like you guys just had great RNG luck on his battle AI. I'm sure it would have only taken me one try too if he used his physical a bunch instead of Pulsar Burst.

Anyway, it took me roughly 12 S/Ls for Caius because he fucking LOVED dropping doubleturn Giga-Gravitons right around the 30% HP area. The only reason I finally beat the asshole was a combination of spamming Lifesiphon Beatrix's Seiken Shock for Magic Blink AND bringing a Minwu insta-Medica RW specifically for that bullshit.

This isn't counting the 4 or 5 times he insta-gibbed Ramza or Vanille. (I'm not so lucky with backrow FF13 synergy  as Snow, I guess?)

Team: Trinity + Burst + Magic Blink Beatrix
Tyro (Lifesiphon R4, Wall)
Ramza (Shout, Banishing Strike/Full Break, probably should have split this up...)
Vanille (SSB Medica)
Lightning (BURST baby, Lifesiphon R4)
Beatrix (Saint Cross R3/ Lifesiphon R3)

Made a new Lifesiphon just for this battle... I'm sure that won't bite me in the ass. Honed Full Break and Saint Cross to R3 too, finally.

Even with all the pretty toys, it was a bitch. Not looking forward to the rematch in the Revenge Dungeon honestly...

Cotigo

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2782 on: June 11, 2016, 08:59:08 AM »
Man, yeah that Kain relic and my lack of FF4 synergy is sorely tempting me to spend my last 50 mythril on it. I don't really have anyone who specializes in Thunder weakness, so that'd be a great addition to my otherwise stacked arsenal.

I'll still probably wait because that's smarter but dang that's shiny.

Anyway, mastered U+ Geosgaeno with the Cid's Mission clear. Party was Titus Andronicus/Kimarhi/Auron/Braska/Yuna, SG RW, with Yuna wielding the Liberty staff for faux-boothga.

Maaan my last 4 or so pulls have been ridiculously good. Liberty Staff alone would have probably made Cid's Missions possible again, but my last 2 also filled synergy and SSBs for one of my weak realms, and so this wasn't even very hard. No hastega, instead I was relying on Tidus to just overwhelm with his OSB. The synergy weapons also help get everyone dealing damage to the ~450 threshold to hit the soft cap or near enough after the Liberty Staff's boost, and Braska wasn't slouching too much either with Chain Blizzaga after the boost, either. I probably actually should have had him on a second Curaja duty, but meh. SG was also kind of a bad pick since a couple of Geo's attacks were ITD, and I really could have used a Medica RW instead on runs I had a S/L on. That said, on the winning run he never used his ITD skill, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gotta say, Kimarhi also really came through on the winning run. Magic Blink is pretty sexy (Tsunami? What tsunami?), and his dismal (well, with the new Dragoon skill, maybe not so dismal anymore)  skillset doesn't really matter when the entirety of his job description is A) Have Gau's Start: Haste and ATK up RM, B) Use Life Siphon, C) Use Magic Blink, D) 20 goto 10. His SSB damage wasn't too bad, either, when it's all said and done. He only didn't outdamage Auron's because Auron could use the Katana damage x1.20 RM.

---

On an entirely different note, DeNA fucked up the party setup screens in their latest application update. Now, every time you go to change equipment, skills, and RMs the order listening is whatever the default is, which is usually the least useful organizational method, meaning I have to manually change it for every fuckin' piece of equipment, every fuckin' skill change, and every single fuckin' RM. It is a small thing but it is goddamn maddening.

EDIT: U++ Ultimate Weapon down. I am the Full Medal Alchemist. It's me.

Party was basically the same as Geo, but replacing Braska and Yuna for Tyro and Relm, with tyro on Breakdown duty, and a Shout RW.

Oh my god, having two alternating Magic Blinks probably mitigated more damage than SG alone would have had Ultima not been ITD. Kimarhi, I no longer think you suck, at least in FFX content.

I'll have to do some mathing at some point to determine which is better for DPS, having Tidus with Ace Striker and Life Siphon, or having a 30% damage boost RM on instead. It would have made his Energy Rains 65000 damage instead of 50000, but he would probably have only gotten two off instead of three in the fight... so I'm erring on the side of keeping him with Ace Striker, but it's a close call.

Either way, on to clearing the FF13 content I suppose. I kinda want to wait until Sunday so I can get Ramza to master Shout, but my FF13 synergy sucks anyway so that may not really matter.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 11:07:07 AM by Makkotah »

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2783 on: June 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM »
So the Reddit Tier challenge thing keeps rattling around in my head because... well... it's Nyarlie's but with FFRK. So I'm gonna ramble about my thoughts on how I would Tier the PCs for a challenge like this.

So... stats are roughly equal within the same niches. Synergy probably should be thrown out for tiering process and only taken into account on a per-event basis? That leaves Equip selection, Skillsets, and Soul Breaks to really differentiate characters. And Soul Breaks are obviously dependent upon Gacha luck. However, you're not likely to use PCs on a U+ fight that you don't have a SB for, so they have to be figured in. I'd probably set different ratings for PCs depending on their SBs available to a particular player.

So... Equipment's easy - the more Equipment options the better, but some Equips are obviously better than others, and some types are more widely available obviously. Ranged options are naturally slightly more useful due to allowing innate backrow protection but they tend to be less widely available and less powerful. However, having a synergy Ranged option is always great.

Melee: Swords >>> Spears = Fists (= Daggers) > Katana > Axes > Hammers > Everything else
Magical: Rods > Staves >>> Magic Swords > Whips > Magic Guns > Everything else
Ranged: Thrown > Bows > Guns >> Blitzballs > Everything else

Defense: More options are always better, but in general:
(Bangles) >>>> Helmets = Hats > New Shields > Light Armor >>> Heavy Armor = Robes >>>> Old Shields

Per character, I'd probably look at the sum total of "relevant" weapon/armor options and just use that as a base number to add to their point cost. (Max of 1.5 points for lots of options is probably how I'd weight this?)


Skillsets:
For high level content, there's a fairly limited number of skills that actually see use. It basically comes down to how many of these skills a character can use that determines their flexibility. However, no single character can use more than 2 skills, so they are only as good as the sum of their two best skills. So what I'd probably do is rate each skillset on a scale of 1-5 and then just assign point value to a character based on their two best skill schools.

Top schools at the moment: (1.5 pts)
White 4/5 (Bard 4 technically also works in most cases?)
Support 4/5 = Dancer 4/5
Knight 5 (4 might still be up here)
Thief 5
Combat 4/5 (Lifesiphon)

Good utility: (1 pts)
Black 4/5 (at the moment, eventually Black 5 will go back to being top tier)
Darkness 5
Celerity 4 (5 only gives QuickHit at the moment, but still goes here)
Knight 3 (Draw Fire on its own is up here, but 4 might need to go here)
Samurai 2 (Retaliate, still usable in a lot of content, bloating Samurai 5's worth, if Retaliate is useless, assume a Sam5 character is rated much lower. I'll try to rate Samurai points last)
Spellblade 3/4/5
Thief 4
Machinist 4/5
White 3 (Therapy Cure/Curaga/Dispel/Reflect)

Usable: (0.5 pt)
Celerity 3 (Tempo Flurry on its own still good)
Monk 4/5
Ninja 4 (Only if Sleep/Sap vulnerable)
Support 3
Combat 3
Summon 5
Black 3
(Ranger 4/5 eventually?)

Largely ignorable: (0 pts)
Dragoon 5
Ninja 5 (if not Sleep/Sap vulnerable)
Bard/Dancer (If White/Support are options)
Bard 3
Dancer 3
Summon 4 (5, too, if Black 5 is an option, somewhat better if Reflect-All is useful?)
Samurai 5 (better if MT damage or MT status needed, assume Retaliate is useless)

So from that list, pick a PC's two best schools and sum their skillset point worth. (Max of 3 pts)


Finally, there's Soul Breaks. These kind of make or break a character's worth. But since you can't reliably have one, I'd give them a max weight of 1.5 points on a PC's score. Simple binary in some cases like Tyro. Have Sentinel's Grimoire? Plus 1.5 points. Don't have it? +0. Well, if you got Stormlance, then he'd get probably +.5 for having a decent 'general purpose damage SB'.

General point scaling:

Top tier: (+1.5 pts)
Wall
Shout
Medica + High Regen
Medica + multiple effects
Hastega + multiple effects

Awesome: (+1.0 pts)
Any Burst SB
Grand Cross/Runic
Instant Cast Medica
Instant Cast Damage
Medica + effect
Hastega + effect/damage
Boostga + effect/damage
Faithga + effect/damage
Magic Blink + effect/damage
Physical Blink + effect/damage

General: (+0.5 pts)
Pure Damage SSBs
Single effect: Hastega/Medica/Boostga/Faithga/Blink

No Effect: (+0 pts)
Anything outdated by regular 5* abilities (single-hit damage SBs, for example)
Default SBs (yeah, even Shellga/Protectga/Celes' Default)
Shared SBs


Now I'd have to go through and make a full Tier list using those criteria, but I think it's a step in the right direction. I figure if I post this, I'll at least get Meeple or Snow or hinode (or even Zenny?!) to contribute some more critical thoughts, rather than my ramblings.

Meeplelard

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2784 on: June 11, 2016, 11:23:48 AM »
Quote
Honestly, sounds like you guys just had great RNG luck on his battle AI. I'm sure it would have only taken me one try too if he used his physical a bunch instead of Pulsar Burst.

I saw Pulsar Burst PLENTY.  It's just with general mitigation up, it was doing like 500-600 per hit, so unless someone got hit 4-5 times with the shot, the move really wasn't threatening.  I saw plenty of Giga Gravitons too, which sting, as well as his shockwave attack.  There was an instance where I actually saw Pulsar Burst do only like 300-400 per hit; the move isn't THAT threatening to be honest.  Heck, in some regards, I welcomed it since it meant more Soul Break gauge.

I don't think I ever saw his basic physicals beyond the opening, outside of a single Launch that hit Vanille early in the fight (when he's a lot tamer anyway.)  His MT Shockwave move did like AoE 1000 on one occassion?  That was more threatening than Pulsar Burst.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Cotigo

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2785 on: June 11, 2016, 01:09:15 PM »
I never cared about Nyarlie's dungeon so can you give me a rundown on exactly what the goal of this ranking is?

Do you guys have 2 hit summons yet? If not I agree with Summon being largely worthless, but if you do then Summon 4 is at least as good as Black 4 (Black 5 is better... or will be, anyway), unless we're taking into account how hard they are to hone, in which case they're AT LEAST better than Black 3.

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2786 on: June 11, 2016, 02:01:47 PM »
It's just Reddit applying point-costs to characters for a team-drafting challenge.

Essentially, really top-tier Characters like Ramza and Gilgamesh cost about 6 points, while trash like Gau only cost 0.5 points. The goal is to make an effective team using only 12 points worth of PCs.

Based on current global meta and some vague voting, Reddit decided on this for costs:
6 Points: Gilgamesh, Ramza, Agrias, Terra
5 Points: Tyro, Bartz, P. Cecil, Yuna, Lightning, Y'shtola, Rinoa
4 Points: Celes, Cloud, Beatrix, Garnet, Locke, Balthier, Auron, Faris, Lenna, Sephiroth, Aerith, Vaan, Basch, Squall, Rydia, Vivi, Zack
3 Points: Eiko, Zidane, Steiner, Selphie, Yuffie, Vanille, Red XIII, Tidus, lulu, Exdeath, Fran, Kefka, Vincent, Hope, Mog, Leon, Quistis, Ashe, Edgar, Penelo, Krile, Relm, Rikku, Sazh, Edea, Deschº, Kujaº, Cait Sithº, Serahº
ºDesch, Kuja, Cait Sith and Serah are not in the tier list, so they are defaulted to 3 points.
2 Points: Luneth, Tifa, Shadow, Jecht, Golbez, Wakka, Rosa, Seifer, Laguna, Minwu, Thancred, Fang, Palom, Porom, Cid, Snow, Kain, Ingus, WoL, Firion, Galuf, Freya, Fusoya, Zell, Edge, Tellah, Reno, D.Cecil
1 Point: Sabin, Irvine, Maria, Setzer, Refia, Arc, Edward, Gordon, Amarant, Barret, Strago, Leila, Quina, Cyan
0.5 Points: Kimahri, Josef, Ricard, Gau



I agree that post-buff Summon 4 is better than Black 3, I dunno what I was thinking there. Still, Summons in general just are hard to hone and you don't even get enough uses out of them that you can run a single Summon (usually you have to run two Summons AND the double-cast Summon RM to make it worthwhile unless we're talking Bahamut R4).

hinode

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2787 on: June 11, 2016, 02:05:39 PM »
Yeah it's in global now, there's one guy on Reddit who has killer mage gear and breaks the cap with summons in most realms.

Honestly for U+ purposes I'd swap the rankings of Black 4/5 and Summon 4 right now. Black 4/5 is useless on hybrid/Shout comps because they can't self-buff like Dark mages can and have significantly weaker damage potential than summons on mage teams where breaking the 9999 cap is feasible. Orb conversion means that Maduin's a lot easier to hone than it used to be.

Tempo Flurry is also borderline useless for U+ purposes since almost nothing is weak to slow (and the few who are generally have 600+ speed so haste/slow barely matter).

Also while the Reddit tier list is obviously flawed, it's also fairly simple to understand and start crafting teams up with, and that's something that shouldn't be undervalued. The more convoluted you make the rules for something the fewer people will bother with it, and getting broader participation was one of the goals of this whole challenge. I'm not sure anyone besides Djinn will actually bother with whatever system he cooks up here.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 02:08:38 PM by hinode »

Meeplelard

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2788 on: June 11, 2016, 02:07:36 PM »
We do, yeah.  It was added in around the FF10-2 event, if not earlier, since I remember having Rinoa throw out Bahamut there, and really, Bahamut was dog shit before the Summon buff, not only because damage ceiling was doubled, but it's multiplier I believe was only 13.5x (not that it matters since Bahamut shouldn't have issues hitting the damage cap)

And for the reasons you laid out, I actually went and created Ixion and honed it to R3, since figured it'd be useful on Carry Armor...which it was.  I'd make Alexander, but I know we're getting a free one in about a month from the Braska event, so would rather wait than waste the orbs.  Toying with making Leviabeetus, but it's weaker than a -ja that doesn't hit the damage cap unlike Alexander and Ixion, and a less useful element to boot, so feel like that'd could be a waste of orbs unless I really need to hit AoE Water Weakness or something.  I have Laser Chicken at R3, and Daddy Branford at R2.  I haven't considered honing them quite yet, but summon nightmare may make me do so. 

EDIT: And yeah, Tempo Flurry is not good unless you really are lacking something for DPS on a Celerity Character, and frankly Dismissal is what you should be using them (stronger and better side effect; Dismissal likely isn't breaking the damage cap vs. an Ultimate(+), so Tempo Flurry's 2nd hit isn't meaningful).  Only reason I used it against Chaos Bahamut was because slow was a condition; otherwise I almost never bring Tempo Flurry to boss fights.  It's fine for trash murdering since it's easy to hone at R5, and two hits means it can sometimes kill 2 enemies, but otherwise, I typically avoid it.

And I agree with hinode; flawed but simple is way more appealing than elaborate and balanced, if for no other reasons than it avoids getting bogged down by details.  In the flawed situation, all you do is look at the character, see their point totals, and apply it to the allowed amount.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 02:12:59 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2789 on: June 11, 2016, 02:10:45 PM »
Tempo Flurry I had up there not for Slow so much as 1.2s cast speed and multiple hitting off of a decent enough damage multiplier. Just a solid, cheap workhorse skill.

You may have a point about Black 4/5 not being that great on U+ content. I haven't run non-Dark mages for a while, but I was just thinking "Ah, elemental weakness-hitting, Waterja's decent casting speed, relatively easy-to-hone" and plunked it down. It was all stream-of-consciousness rambling so I'm open to having more eyes on it to smooth out the relative worth of skillsets/SBs/equips.

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2790 on: June 11, 2016, 02:15:13 PM »
Also while the Reddit tier list is obviously flawed, it's also fairly simple to understand and start crafting teams up with, and that's something that shouldn't be undervalued. The more convoluted you make the rules for something the fewer people will bother with it, and getting broader participation was one of the goals of this whole challenge. I'm not sure anyone besides Djinn will actually bother with whatever system he cooks up here.

...thanks for the vote of confidence. >.>;;

The idea was to make something simple like a Tier list, but with at least some regard to balance. All the mathematics would be under the hood, the end result is still just a Tier list like Reddit's, but without obvious flaws like Arc being 1 point while Yuna is 5 points, despite having essentially the same stats/abilities.

Meeplelard

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2791 on: June 11, 2016, 02:19:27 PM »
Thing is, Tempo Flurry's multi-hit probably isn't breaking the damage cap without something like Advance + multiple layers of defense loss in the mix.

0.9x2 damage isn't really anything special.  Against Caius, for example, Beatrix with Banishing Strike using Excalibur, making effectively a 2.4x damage attack, did only like 8k after Scream and Armor Break.  That's 25% stronger than Tempo Flurry remember.  Saint's Cross was doing 6800 or so per hit, and Saint's Cross, boosted with Excalibur, is stronger PER HIT than Tempo Flurry in total.

Honestly, if someone has to rely on Tempo Flurry, chances are that's a problem with their skillset, not the move being useful.  If a Celerity 3 skill is the best they have, then that's telling.  I mean, Combat 3 at least offers Breaks which are 1.7x damage with an effect (and Armor Break even increases your net DPS in Shout teams; Armor Breakdown doesn't yield that much of an increase over Armor Break as a note), as well as Launch which has the mult of a 4* skill.  1.2s speed is nice and all, but that's standard for Celerity, and if you have Celerity 4, it begs the question of "Why aren't you using Dismissal?"
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2792 on: June 11, 2016, 02:24:18 PM »
Sounds reasonable. I'm definitely gonna edit the list a bit before I make a full PC Tier List, so more critique is helpful. I just wanted to explain my own kneejerk reasoning and definitely didn't want to -undervalue- any noteworthy skills.

Cotigo

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2793 on: June 11, 2016, 02:57:19 PM »
and i'm asleep

Beat Caius in the Revenge dungeons, took no prisoners because fuck that fight.

Ramza (Full Break, Indoor Spell), Mako Might
Tidus (Chain Starter, Indoor Spell), Ace Striker
Bartz (Steal Power, Indoor Spell), Swords 1.30x
Tyro (Power, Magic Breakdowns), Dr. Mog's Teachings
Relm (Dispel, Curaja), Ace striker Clone
SG RW

One S/L because I got cocky and didn't refresh SG, then everyone but Tyro and Relm ate it to his Giga Graviton. Hubris!

I may come back and do this one only with SBs and skills that were available at the time, which would be basically doing the fight again without Titus Andronicus and instead swapping in... uh. Some Knight? I'd have to take a look at when some SSBs that I currently have were released. On the other hand, it wouldn't drastically change the fight, just make it longer so I probably won't bother.

Only the Noel U++ fight left in the content ending on Monday. There's actually a huge amount of stuff available to do that I put off until now. This has eaten up substantially more of my day than I am proud to cop to. Ah well, vidjeagaeyms.

Cotigo

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2794 on: June 12, 2016, 07:45:29 AM »
FF13 U++ Atlas down, missed mastery because I forgot that slowing him was a win condition. Wasn't that hard of a fight and I had the spare "Whatever" slot on Relm so I redid it, missing only one damage medal. Yaaaay scarletite and adamantite. I suppose.

 Was even easier while he was slowed. Shock! Worth pointing out that he won't ever Dispel you if he's not slowed, as that move is attached to his Esuna attack.

Tanky fucker in any case though.

Turns out, saving up 3 bars of Tidus SB, then using his Chain Starter SB and then two Energy Rains is just a flat out worse idea than using chain starter + ER as I get them. Good to know!

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2795 on: June 12, 2016, 05:49:47 PM »
U+ Caius down. Had 1 S/L due to Y'shtola getting targetted twice in the opening barrage, 1 S/L due to taking too long to refresh buffs mid-battle.



Man, looks like I even forgot to requip Lenna defensively like I intended to. Didn't even need to, in the end.

Double White Mage party worked splendidly here, since Caius has 50K less HP than most previous U+ bosses. The tradeoff is that his damage output is nuts, but the extra healing (with Wall and Heavy Regen and an AoE heal) could handle that.

I actually had more S/Ls on Chaos Bahamut due to unmitigated Umbral Vise OHKOing either WM. Even Gilgamesh got knocked down to a sliver of health if he got hit turn 1.

Scar

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2796 on: June 13, 2016, 11:47:07 AM »
Oh. Kain gets two events in the near future?

Me likes. Now they need to give him celery and white magic along with a dress sphere and my 30 "encouragement" letters a day will not be in vain!

Mwa hahahahaha
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Cotigo

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2797 on: June 13, 2016, 12:24:20 PM »
here u go


Scar

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2798 on: June 13, 2016, 01:09:56 PM »
I'd like to blame my phone for the auto correct, but duck it.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 01:11:27 PM by Scar »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper
« Reply #2799 on: June 13, 2016, 08:46:48 PM »
Drive bars, fill cars until Edgar's second event kicks in tonight. I guess I could use the Gysahl Greens and XP.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....