Record Keeping Final Fantasy Record Keeper

[Cotigo]

Seriously, what a stupid fucking fight. You could be doing literally everything goddamn right and get it down to one with 10% health left or so then Bam, Bad Breath, MT laser, bad breath, MT laser, oh damn everyone except for Ramza and Garnet are dead, he's blinded and asleep and she's fucking silenced, confused, and out of summon charges anyway. I just gave up and stumbled across the finish line that run because I was done saving and loading for a fucking story dungeon. Even if I HAD Esuna on I don't really know how you're supposed to not just get bent over backwards if your Esuna user gets silenced.

On the plus side, guys, that was the last story dungeon for FF4, so you guys shouldn't be getting anything else from that terrible fucking world anytime soon.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I solved that fight by bringing Y'shtola's healing RW, since it has MT Esuna. And we can't celebrate yet, there's still the Edge/Rosa event to trudge through in late January. As I said, I'm horribly glad I have so much 5* FF4 synergy, because that realm is across the board nightmarish.

[hinode]

There's also the threat of future TAY dungeons/events to rehash all the rehashed FF4 bosses a few more times.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I think at this point that's the only way they'll ever release the FF4 temp PCs not named Tellah, Edward and FuSoYa.

[Veryslightlymad]

Scrolling through the introduction to Relm's event. Relm's dialogue in the Japanese version of FF6 is actually pretty hilarious. There's something about her referring to Stragos as ジジイ that translating it to "Gramps" doesn't exactly capture. I do recall her being fairly entertaining when I replayed FF6 recently, but yeah.

The older I get, the more I learn to appreciate this character's badassery.

In a game where all the other characters, all of them, at some point give up on life entirely, After the destruction of the entire world, Relm shrugs her shoulders and then.... goes out and lives her dream of being a professional artist. She is 10.

She is a 10 year old girl that (perhaps accurately!) assumes that the dashing King of basically a fifth of the world is in her League.

This is a character that as a kid, I never really processed the raw swagger she had. I should have been jealous. I wish I were that cool as a kid, but then again, I was sitting at home playing Final Fantasy 6

[Meeplelard]

I think at this point that's the only way they'll ever release the FF4 temp PCs not named Tellah, Edward and FuSoYa.

Well, to be fair, look who we have left:

Yang: Probably the single most generic monk in the franchise.  This is RK, where Monks kind of suck across the board.
Porom: Pure White Mage.  Not only does FF4 already have a White Mage Rep, it's hard to make her stand out in a way that fits, especially when we have a bajillion White Mages running around.
Palom: See Porom, really, but for Black Mages.  Oh, but it gets worse when you consider FF4 has *2* Black Mage characters in Rydia and Golbez.
--Adding to this, FF4 has *2* Sage characters, begging the question of why we need even more magic users from this entry.
Cid: Machinist; I guess he can be a tank character who gets Machinist 5, something FF4 doesn't have yet, but not exactly the most inspired set.

So really, the question is, what do we lose?  Realm Synergy from FF4 isn't exactly something we're starving in and none of the characters bring anything new to the table except maybe Cid and even that's a stretch.


This isn't like, say, Cait Sith who you could do just about anything with and get away with it, or Vincent who you could run as a Mage w/ Guns from FF7, so the options are there.  It's 2 redundant characters, a boring character, and one who is interesting if you squint hard.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

My wet dream for Cait Sith: Black Magic 5, White Magic 4, Bard 4/5. His weapon can even be an instrument! Make it happen, DeNa.

Anyhow, the relevant returns on the + dailies feels far better than Heroic. Today, I did six full runs on Dark Holy power. Five of them yielded Greaters (3 Holy, 2 Dark). On Heroics, I ran them considerably more often and getting three a day was a -good- run. Regardless, I just honed Diaga to R4 with the spoils. Not bad.

[Grefter]

I know for a fact that there is no way that is the actual sex dream you have about Caitlin Sith.

It might involve him spectating you engaged in some kind of event and heckling you with the megaphone though.

[Magic Fanatic]

...Five quests left: Create Flare, Create Holy, Create Barrage, Create Flare Strike, and Hone Pressure Point.

Aside from that, done with Setzer's event for now until the Bonus battles come out.  Doing incidentals until that time - just got my Stamina up to 97.  All the bonus quests were for stages I hadn't mastered yet, too!

[Meeplelard]

My wet dream for Cait Sith: Black Magic 5, White Magic 4, Bard 4/5. His weapon can even be an instrument! Make it happen, DeNa.

That seems pretty plausible for Cait Sith.  They should also give him high HP but low defense, because that would reflect his in-game self.  Also hope they don't turn Megaphones into this UNIQUE WEAPON LOL nonsense and just lump it with instruments.

As far Vincent goes, while they SHOULD make him some form of Mage and give him Outsider with a huge magic bonus (for guns), chances are they'll be lame and do the usual "he uses Guns, therefor he will be ANOTHER RANGED SUPPORT CHARACTER LOL."  I mean, yeah it's Vincent so I shouldn't give a crap, but if you're going to put him into the game, at least try to make me remotely interested in using the worthless sap.


On a different note, they really need to release a 2nd FF1 PC.   Like I get it; the Cores covered all the Jobs, and WoL is a stand-in, but there's still like Princess Sarah and Garland they could use.  Garland could be Tank Spellblade user (references his usage of the elements), and Princess Sara a Bard/White Mage character.  Also Bikke the Pirate should totally get in, with his Default Soul Break being an attack that does 9 damage to the opponent.

[Captain K]

They're slowly adding all the antagonist characters, so Garland seems very plausible in the long run.  I'd expect Kuja first though.

[Cotigo]

hey kids wanna try a little... math?

So hokay. None of my characters are reaching the 700 some MATK soft cap so let's just deal with the basic formula.

Damage = 5 + BD*Mult
BD = (Mag^1.65)/(Res^0.5)

At 347 mag, Terra was dealing 5900 damage or so to Velius with Meteo/Aja spells, and has a multiplier of 9. Assuming I understand the battle mechanics formulae correctly, Velius' RES should be...

5895 = 5 + ((347^1.65)/(X^0.5))*9
655 = (347^1.65)/(X^0.5)
655(X^0.5) = 347^1.65
655(X^0.5) = 15543.3...
Sqrt(X) = 23.73
X = 563.125

Wooooow it's been a long time since I've done algebra.  I think that's all right though. Double checking with Yuna's damage (308 MAG) against Velius is returning... a damage number lower than I expected (5100) but within the bounds of me maybe misremembering her damage against Velius. Let's say this RES is close enough for government work and move on.

EDIT: I remembered that I had her using Kefka's Record Materia, which boosts MAG. That accounts for the missing damage, and since I'll have her using Doublecast Summon instead of that I'll continue on with these damage numbers.

Now, I have basically 4 questions. Do I use Kefka/Mana's Song? Magic Breakdown or POIZN? Alexander, Valefor, or both? And last, even completely optimized, Do I deal enough damage to take Velius down in the turn limit?

First, do I use Kefka/Mana's Song?

So, this means that with Mana's Song Terra's spell damage goes from 5900 up to 7900 damage. (10 charges)
Yuna's Valefor is increased from 5100 damage to 6983 damage. (3 charges)
Since I'm considering Alexander, I should note that due to the lower mult than Valefor his damage before buffing is [/b]4955[/b], and after buffing is 6692

Kefka, due to my rod restrictions, being L65, no synergy, etc., can only get his mag up to 265. His damage will be 3783 before buffs, and 5109 after buffs.

I could give Aeris Diaga, but then Kefka won't have a decent rod, she isn't affected by the buff, I need her on healing duty, AND her damage comes out to only 5284 so it's not even really better than giving Kefka an -aja and her rod.

Eyeballing it, it looks like this does in fact make up the difference between what Zack contributes (2000 damage, 6000 damage every 5 turns or so, +3200 damage every turn and a half or thereabouts). So Kefka's in. I COULD slap Mana's Praen on Ramza, but he dealt 5k a hit with breakdowns before, has more levels, and I generally want him on damage duty every round this fight.

---

Do I use Mental Breakdown or POIZN?

Well, POIZN's easy to calculate. 3200 damage every turn and a half or so, so let's say 6400 every 3 turns. Mental Breakdown has to give me more than that.  I couldn't find exact figures for how much Magic Breakdown lowers RES when resisted, so I'm just using Magic Break's reduction (30%) and calling it good.

Side note, HILARIOUS reddit post from like 8 months ago questioning if Breakdowns were worth it over Breaks. I know I had the same question when I started playing but it's funny mostly because of how obvious the answer is now. I have half a mind to sell all my breaks, actually, since I don't think they're gonna get used.

So, I wish I knew how to put a table in forum posts but here's an ugly list.  Order of numbers is base, Mana's Praen ONLY, Mental Breakdown ONLY, both Mental Breakdown and Mana's Prean

Terra  Met/ja  5900, 7900, 6727, 9086
Yuna Valefor 5100, 6983, 5894, 7961
Yuna Alexanr 4955, 6692, 5649, 7630
Kefka blablaja 3783, 5109, 4313, 5825

OK, so except for Kefka who is going to be a little damage anemic anyway, Mental breakdown seems to get me an extra +1000 damage each turn from my mages, totalling out to about 2800 a turn, which is slightly worse than POIZN EXCEPT for the fact that Poison's much lower multiplier is going to lower Ramza's damage from 5k something to 3k something, so Mental Breakdown is a clear winner here.

---

Do I use Valefor, Alexander, or both?

Honestly, I think I've already decided straight up that using Valefor and Alexander is the best option. It gives Garnet Yuna consistent damage, lets me not waste a turn with using Curaja on an arch demon, and will help me wipe out the Arch Demons more quickly once they reach the stage where their Lifesteal attack is *really* fucking dangerous. There are, unfortunately, downsides 3.

1. Notably, I will only have one healer in the fight. Once I get going this isn't actually too bad, Velius' damage output is manageable with Shell, SG, and Magic BD. It does however turn the first phase of the fight into a total RNG fest, but it was last time anyway with Zack's poison so whatever. I just may be even moreso. Egh.

2. Once Garnet's out of charges, she's useless. This one isn't too bad, since I plan on having her be my SG caster, once at the start of the fight and once more when she runs out of summons. I'm aiming to take him down quickly, anyway, so yeah. By that time, she'll also have her SB built up, which can help squeeze a bit more damage out of Ramza before he uses Throw Stone EDIT: Disregard this, I was thinking of Garnet, not Yuna.

3. If I'm wrong about one healer being viable then I've just wasted 60 stamina. I could also be very wrong about this.

That said none of these downsides really dissuade me from the setup, so unless it's really truly not viable and I'm still dealing with this fight much later today then I'll consider the other options. That said, I'm pretty sure Valefor is going to be the better option if I have to only use one, because even if I do have to blow a turn on Cure, that's much so much less damage on Velius per turn and with one charge less even.

---

Now, do I have enough damage this way to beat Velius quickly? I'm gonna go turn by turn because there's not actually a whole lot of flexibility in what I do with this setup, and I just kinda have to wait for the RNG to be kind enough to me to make this work. Writing out now, saving so I don't lose this nonsense to a crash. I could probably do some cool thing to calculate this all but I'm really, really, really bad at Human Resource Machine.

Ramza alternates between MajBD and MenBD every turn except when he uses Throw stone. I'm going to be conservative and say that SBs charge by turn 5, though they may well get there by turn 4. I do really wish I had Cloud or Ramza's RM2/3s, because that would make this plan a lot safer. Also, obviously, not taking into account dualcasts because they're so RNG dependent. Sometimes they go off multiple times a fight, sometimes they never go off. There's also obviously gonna be some wiggle room in when I pop off Shellga, Aeris' MT Heal/Reraise and Sentinel Grimoire but that won't affect overall damage numbers. Also to note, I will probably have Kefka with his Mag Up Materia on, which will make him a bit more useful, but because I'm getting bored of doing this I'm going to just assume he doesn't have this.

Velius HP 235600, when Damage >=235600 Battle ends
Turn 1:
Ramza MajBD, Kefka MP, Terra Meteo, Yuna SG, Aeris Shell
Damage: 12900

Turn 2:
Ramza MenBD (5k), Kefka aja (5.8k), Terra Meteo (9k), Yuna Alexander (7.6k), Aeris (Curaja). Terra is out of Meteo on this turn.
Damage: 24700 + 12900 = 40,300

Turn 3: Repeat, though Terra's Meteo turns into an -aja. Arch Demons should be dead after Yuna's Alexander this turn.
Damage: 24700 + 40,300 = 65000

Turn 4:
Ramza MBD (5k), Kefka MP, Terra aja (9k), Yuna Valefor (7.9k), Aeris (Matt... Damon)
Damage: 21900 + 65k = 86,900

Turn 5:
Ramza TS (12k), Kefka aja (5.8k), Terra Aja (9k), Yuna Valefor (7.8k), Aeris (full heal plsplspls)
Damage: 35,400 + 86,900 = 122,300. Over halfway.

Turn 6:
Ramza MBD (5K), Kefka aja (5.8k), Terra aja (9k), Yuna SG, Aeris Shell
Damage: 19.8K + 122,300 = 142100

Turn 7:
Ramza MBD (5k), Kefka MP, Terra aja (9k), Yuna Valefor (7.8k), Aeris wheel, Aeris Deal
Damage: 21.8k + 142.1k = 163900, Yuna is useless for the rest of the fight. I do have the option of squeezing 3000k damage out of her or doing a weak MT heal for her SB, but for now I'll discount this and pretend she's just idling to not use up turns.

Turn 8:
Ramza MBD (5k), Kefka aja (5.8k), Terra aja (9k), Yuna Nada, Aeris Heal
Damage: 19.8k + 163.9k = 183,700

Turn 9:
Ramza MBD (5k), Kefka (5.8k), Terra aja (9k), Yunada, Aeris turn down for what
Damage: 19.8k + 183.7k = 203,500. Kefka is out of charges at this point.

Turn 10:
Ramza TS (12k), Kefka MP, Terra aja(9k), Yunada, Aeris Aeris Bo Beris
Damage: 21k + 203,500 = 224,500. Terra is out of spell charges

And I'm out of gas. HOWEVER, thanks to Dual cast, if it procs even once I've won. If it procs on Yuna but not on Terra, then Yuna's rod's SB + one more attack from Ramza will carry me over the finish. Now, is this fast enough for me to get mastery? That... I really don't know. Like, I can't find any information on how many turns it takes to lose a medal on bosses, and I really can't think of any sort of work around that makes this go faster, barring Cloud and Ramza's RMs dropping before I do the fight so I have access to Throw Stone more often.

Another downside that I just thought of with this strat is that I have no way of Slowing Velius, so he's going to be getting a lot more turns on me making the fight even more RNG dependent. Also, towards the end, if any characters get ganked, even if they are reraised their damage output is going to be shit until I can rebuff, though thanks to Ramza not so much to the point where It's going to slow me down too much.

---

Anyway, I suppose I'm gonna keep dungeon diving for a little bit more tonight in hopes that I get an RM, then maybe tackle this tonight. This has given me some good info for the Leblanc fight, too, at least. I think with Ormi's draw fire this mage setup is probably gonna be best, with giving Ramza Blind strike to meet that medal req.

EDIT: I just realized thanks to Zack not being able to level up I can be more accurate with Ramza's damage too. I wanna calculate this, too, because it may be worth it to ditch the damage RM he's using and put on my Start: Haste Materia to squeeze in another Throw Stone, ideally before Terra runs out of charges. Let's see, using Dual Delay his one hit damage was about 1200 I want to say? Sure.

1200 = 5+(309^1.8)/X^0.5)*0.9
1195/0.9= 30333/sqrtX
1327sqrtx=30333
SqrtX = 22.84
X = ~522

Sure sounds right, can't really check against Ramza's stats since he's gained a lot of levels since my last attempt so we'll go with that. I don't know if the Katana = 1.2x damage RM means 1.2x damage total, 1.2x base damage, or 1.2x attack, so I'll just calculate all 3 with Ramza using either MBD.

Haste RM 3602 ...

So, I don't even have to math out the rest. Even with the level ups, if I ditch the Katana materia I lose as much damage over 10 turns as I would gain by getting another Throw Stone. Oh well, the more you know! I will probably throw the Haste RM on Aeris, though, just so the first phase of the fight is less RNG dependent. I can make up for the extra turns used in having her skip turns when it isn't necessary. This also lets me get her SSB up faster. I see no real downside to that.

EDIT Ass burgers

So, not knowing the stats of the Leblanc characters, I'm going to assume damage will be equivalent for them. Not going to take into account unbuffed MenBD because putting Mana's Praen on Ramza is just flat out the better option if I have to ditch one of them. If I do use MenBD, the order I proc it on would be Leblanc, Skinny Guy (if Draw attack didn't proc), Blind Skinny Guy, Fat Guy. Gonna focus on Leblanc damage numbers because she looks like the most dangerous.

Also note that this setup lets me not really care about Draw Attack except for making me blind Fat Guy sooner than later.

So...

11800, 15800 or 18200 damage from Meteo
15300, 20949 or 23,883 damage from Valefor
9,910, 13384 or 15,260 damage from Alexander.

This means unbuffed, a total of 37,010 (27,100 no alex) unbuffed or 50133 (36749 no Alex) buffed or 57343 (42083 no Alex) de/buffed MT damage. Mind that both Alexander and Valefor will be doing significantly more damage thanks to Yuna's realm synergy. Buffed+Alex gives me about half of Leblanc's HP in damage off of MT alone, and I can focus her down with ST spells after.

Hooooonestly just eyeballing that, I think for the Leblanc fight I should actually bring Mog or Zack instead of Kefka. Zack frees up Ramza to use MenBD while giving me occasional MT burst damage+Turn Cancel, which would be nice. Mog, on the other hand, lets me have two healers, Alexander, AND since he can use Shell I can throw Diaga on Aeris, not to mention his excellent SB. In light of that, pretty sure my first try party for this fight will be

Ramza (Blind Strike, Mana's Praen), Katana Damage
Terra (Meteo, Waterja), Dualcast BM
Yuna (Alexander, Valefor), Dualcast SMN
Aeris (Diaga, Curaga), Staff->Mind Up
Mog (Shellga, Curaja) Healing x1.2

Actually, after doing this, I'm way more confident in my ability to take this fight down. I think I have a solid chance with this setup right here.

EDIT umpteen: Additional note to self, Faith instead of Diaga? Diaga would be 5120 DPT, but squeezes another 500-1000 damage or so out of my MT spells if coupled with MBD. Preeeeetty sure it isn't worth it.

EDIT EDIT EIDT DIET:

Soooo apparently the Weigraf mastery bonus is really attractive now since that can bump my Alexander charges up from 2 to 3. Thinking on it in the shower, the answer to mastering that seems obvious: Scream and Come At Me Bro. CAMB didn't beat it quick enough, but if I put Scream on instead of SG and have everyone except Ramza double hit/Tempo Flurrying Gilgy every round that should do it. Just gotta refresh my RW until my one Scream using buddy pops up, I guess.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I think, by your calcs, you can -totally- pull off mastery with turn count. The old, harsher threshold for actions taken was like less than 72 actions to achieve 2 medals on actions. 2-1-3 is enough for mastery on everybody as long as there are three target scores and all of them are fulfilled.

EDIT: DO keep in mind, however, that Mana's Paean doesn't boost Mind, so it won't benefit Diaga specifically. However, Mental Breakdown -does- and you're running three mages, so it pays off still.

[Cotigo]

Yup, aware re: manas praen. The issue is that I can't lose ANY  efficency medals vs. Velius. He only has two extra medal conditions and so I can only los1e two to get mastery. Minimizing damage seems like a fools errand, so if I want mastery I need to make it so I lose no efficency medals.

Plus side, my Weigraf strategy worked exceptionally and my Alexander charges are up to 3. If I don't have a shot at beating Velius with mastery I should at least do well against the Lebron James crew

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

One possibly interesting alternative if you're entertaining using Scream as is: finding someone with Lulu's Focus SB. MT Faith + RES Up that stacks with both Mana's Paean and Shellga would seriously improve your attack efficiency, especially for Kefka, and Velius is a primary mage anyway, which helps with your damage control. That said, Kefka's MT Haste + Faith buff could also work.

[Captain K.]

If action efficiency is the problem, then POIZN is indeed your best bet.  If you run out of actions you can just stand there and let the poison kill him.

It's a very good source of damage if you land it early in the fight.

[Cotigo]

Ehhh, not having SG is waaaay riskier with Velius than with Weigraf. Velius damage is quite a bit higher before all de/buffs go up. That said, if I'm still not getting mastery after trying this setup that is something to try.

Captain, no that basically doesnt work. I suppose once I run out of gas I can just sit and wait like you said, but that pretty much is strictly worse than just squeezing damage out of my mages. Velius' damage is to annoying to just sit and take it.

[Veryslightlymad]

I hope Vincent gets Summoning, since there's not a lot of those types floating around, and I think "Summoner with guns" would make him sort of unique, or at least until Yuna gets hers, making it officially a "thing". Then they could make one of hers/his unique guns do something summon related and they'd both benefit.

I agree with what's been said about Cait Sith but believe that Gambling weapon use should be added. I would be willing to wager he gets some ranks in Machinist.

I don't think they'll NOT release the FFIV temps unless the game suddenly starts tanking and they abandon it. They're just gonna add interesting people first, unless they don't know how to best do that, and then they'll take a look at the more "boring" characters. I maintain that Machinist is a skillset that exists solely to not make Cid 4 the clear worst character in the game. He'd otherwise be what? Combat or Support 5 with no swords and only Axes and Hammers (and bows, I guess, if they remember)? That's beyond lackluster. Yes, the actual Machinist in the series is Edgar, but until now, his tools have all been soul breaks. The only character that this repairs from total uselessness is a theoretical Cid 4, which is why I think his eventual release is more-and-more inevitable.

I have no idea what they're gonna do with Porom. Palom is going to be another Vivi. He's going to be slightly worse starting stats, but he'll have "Boast" as a soul break, and it's gonna be a significant magic boost. Suddenly, you're going to have two "boring" mages to pick from, but they're both going to be very, very good at that thing that they do. It's OK if the FFIV cast is unbalanced because the other thing going for the FFIV cast is that it's very large. They will eventually add TAY content and it'll get even larger. They don't have to be balanced because they already fill several niches.

Yang will at least have interesting unique weapons. But what he really needs is a unique soul break where his wife smashes someone with a frying pan and they are restored from KO and get a big strength boost. Make it happen, DeNa

[Meeplelard]

Yuna got guns in the FFX-2 event actually, so Vincent won't be unique if he gets that.  Nonetheless, they should still build him as a mage with guns because that's what he was in FF7, but they'll probably botch it anyway.

Not sure about Cait Sith; I feel he's a wild card as they could get away with just about anything on him.

Not sure about Cid-4, honestly, though Machinist being added was definitely for balance things.   Most of the characters who got it got a notable buff and fittingly enough, it works on all of them save Zidane (who was probably purely a "he needs SOMETHING" moment.)

The problem with Palom is we already have Vivi mk2 in Lulu, so Palom would just be FF4 Synergy.  It gets worse when you consider Rydia's not THAT far behind on Magic, and has Summon 5 on top of it (and White 3).  There's also a non-negligible chance Shantotto could be another Vivi/Lulu style character, which would do Palom no favors.  It's really hard to break into RK as a pure Black Mage these days and be relevant when we have multiple of them and several Black Mages like Terra and Ashe who can do that AND more.  As I said, if Palom does get in, that means FF4 would have *3* Black Mage characters, and that's not including the 2 Sages.

And while FF4's cast is large, it's not as large as FF6's cast, and they've done a decent job of keeping them at least unique (...albeit, many of them aren't all that great, but I said Unique!)  Case in point, FF6 has three Black Mages in Terra, Kefka and Strago (post buff), and none of them feel generic.  Palom is pretty much your text book example of "pure Black Mage" and putting him into a roster that already has 2 Black Mages that are relatively unique...yeah, not doing him any favors!

They are probably coming, but it's hard to be excited about 3 characters who are text book examples of stock versions of those jobs, and Cid 4.

[Veryslightlymad]

If they hold off on the twins, they might release a new type of soul break that involves specific party members being together. It makes sense for a few people (Vivi/Steiner spring to mind), but mostly them. Like, they released the "Transformation" soul break or whatever it is they call it. That feels like it was designed solely for an inevitable Vincent. AND it gives them an excuse/more or less doubles how long they can dick around with things.

So... yeah. I agree, the twins are probably a ways off. It wouldn't surprise me for them to not exist until there is specifically some kind of new mechanic.

[Meeplelard]

Not so sure about the Vincent thing.  They already Released Gau whose Soul Break follows a mechanic that's similar.

Likewise, Terra's been using "Trance *insert move here*" for her Soul Breaks; Vincent could have simply done "Beast Flare" as a Soul Break, showing him transform and nuke the guy.  I guess Vincent does last the entire fight in Beast Form, but so do Gau's Rages.  Not to mention the first character to get a BSSB was Cloud, a character who doesn't transform at all (Then again...this is RK, if there's a new mechanic, Cloud gets it first, no matter how sensible.)

That said, yeah, it's possible they're trying to think of a combo mechanic that would make the twins stand out and waiting on that, but all speculation at this point.

[Veryslightlymad]

I have faith they'll do something. They've done a pretty good job with character balance, all things considered. The lower guys get buffed fairly frequently, and Cloud being at the top makes sense for multiple reasons, not the least of which being "Basically everyone will have this character within a day or two"

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Just laid waste to Celes reissue's bonus fights. The good news is that most of the fights get eaten by Intimidate! The bad news is that I didn't full medal Earth Dragon due to wasting actions. =( Just pack R5 Intimidate and go to town on everyone but Sr. Behemoth, who isn't really much of a threat anyway, just load up on Shellga, Magic Breakdown and ye olde SG RW. Don't forget to hit weaknesses for medals!

This said, thanks to Earth Dragon, now I have R2 Meteor. Thanks for all the fish!

[Meeplelard]

And yet, Cyan is sitting in the corner crying at how he's been around early and desperately needs a buff but no dice.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

He got his attack buffed twice and now it's higher than Lightning's!

Too bad about his skillset.