Author Topic: Munchkin League - Nominations  (Read 2843 times)

superaielman

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2015, 01:09:20 AM »
Beowulf easily handles Dekar. Blind alone is baaaaaaaaad news for Dekar there and he can't do shit about it.  Would also be stunned if Dekar beat Lyndis.
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SnowFire

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2015, 01:26:09 AM »
Okay I forgot Blind.   But more generally, vanilla Dekar is a High Middle, and this tweak removes his most notable weakness (speed), and Excal is looking for a Middle field, that is, High Middle is already max'd out on power budget.  So unless getting extra speed & defense does nothing to help Dekar (unlikely!), it seems like he'd edge into Heavy.

I'm not an expert at IP gains but Lyn isn't doubling and her damage is unspecial and it's vs. Dekar's 1.41 PCHP and now buffed defense.  A Lyn Killing Edge crit is .95 PCHP or so vs. average defense (and is affected more by defense than regular attacks, and Dekar has good defense that is now even better).  If she uses Sol Katti she has a 1.11 PCHP crit vs. average defense, but then she's getting doubled by Dekar and her evade is worse, so that's something of an all-in strat.  Unless Dekar's IP gains are way worse than I expect he can possibly just try and run Lyn out of weapon charges if he really wants.  And it's worth mentioning again that Dekar OHKOs Lyn after a single attack buff.  Lyn's best hope is something like poke for so little damage that Dekar gains very little IP -> crit, but seems chancy at best.  (Stats are from Elf's equal-XP topic for reference.)

EDIT: To ramble some more, if neo-Dekar's defense reduces damage by 20% or so, then Dekar can just drop to half HP then use full-IP healing since it literally takes 2 crits in a row to maybe kill Dekar.  Dekar is faster so he'll never get double-turned so this is pretty safe.

That means Dekar is now 3 wins, 1 coinflip, 1 loss, and the goal is 3-5 losses.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 09:25:45 PM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2015, 06:11:12 AM »
I'll get back to commenting on builds more later, but yeah Dekar is at worst a pretty competent Middle (three-time semifinalist in the DL proper, I see no robs on his part, and one of his runs was cut short by Cait "definitely not a Middle" Sith) so significant improvements to him probably make him too good. Like Joachim except his buffs aren't as potent.


New build of my own:

Jelanda Artolia: Equipped with a Fairy Ring and Mighty Check. Knows Poison Blow and Spell Reinforce in addition to her normal spells (Fire Storm and Heal, the latter is still 3 CT so pretty wretched). Has Auto-Item set and a stock of 10 Elixirs per fight (50% healing), one for every thousand deaths her opponents deserve.

The things you need to do to make a VP mage good... anyway, Poison Blow is a low-mid 3HKO, and can be used every turn, or buffed to a mid 2HKO. She's immune to status and regains half her health every turn for 10 turns... which would be better if she had more than ~81% pdur, so still not too hard to break past, or just survive. Against the gauntlet, Lyn just wrecks her, Demi Barrier-tanks to survive until either the items run out or just a doubleturn, and Cloud blocks poison and gets off a good limit (even Climhazzard is probably fatal). Rydia hits her with Death, which pretty much leaves Beowulf as her only possible win, and even he has a case depending if you see e.g. Chicken working, and in time).

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2015, 09:53:33 PM »
More comments~

-Albert... is again a case of taking a decent enough Middle and buffing him significantly, which is problematic. Because he still retains a big weakness to magic (1.2 mdur, but the raw stat is bad, which especially matters for status) it maaay be okay, but... checking the gauntlet, he easily beats Cloud (can dodge a L3, laughs at everything else) and Lyn (just... way too much pdur, and him 2HKOing should make up for the evasion), but I think he does lose to the other three? Still, uh, he beats Demi if you allow Defend since she's so undamaging against him, and has a case against Beowulf if you let him start with dragoon gauge (because Drain might miss against his boosted MDef).

-Rena's damage means she's unlikely to be a game-breaker. Tanky of course, but not ludicrously so, and can run out of resources. (I think post-Protect she cuts physicals by about 75%?)

-Lemina now has "speed as fast TB speed gets" and thirds physicals. Brutal slugger, but still not great durability against magic or status of course, and has resource limits. So she does probably lose to Beowulf and Rydia, but beats Lyn/Cloud. Demi... yeah, she beats her too I think, Dispel to remove Barriers and she 2HKOs, and hell she all but regens off Demi's damage. So this is probably a bit overbalanced. Both thirding physicals and first strike speed are huge buffs, so she should probably have only one.

-Knight's a weird tank, with fairly ludicrous evade and the potential to lower whatever damage type he faces with Protect/Shell, and the same Punch Arts as non-Power Sleeve Monk. He has loads of options and can KO in four turns with Secret Fist or try to turtle with Chakra (which is shockingly legit on his durability). Low offence will cost him against Rydia and Beowulf (man they beat almost everyone), but the evade is probably too much for Lyn he and outlast Demi with Power Break+Chakra. Cloud he can outlast, power break a lot and block ID. So a bit too strong. I'm not sure what to point at that needs a nerf. Removing the knight swords and mantles may make the build feasable... Knight and Monk individually are already Middles, so again, combining them is probably all the buffs they need.

-Ramza has so many options! But being stuck in Ubersquire does limit his game a bit.
Against Beowulf: Ramza is going to try to break his weapon, which wrecks him entirely. I suspect he can do that, since HEAL protects him from Blind and no other non-petrify status scares him -that- much. Good fight.
Against Rydia: Ramza can 2HKO Rydia and an Aegis Shield will ward off her status for a turn. Doesn't even need his skills from other classes for this one!
Against Demi: I think Demi will grind him down. If Ramza could simultenously heal AND use breaks, he might take this, but I don't think Scream + white magic healing will be enough... could be argued.
Against Lyn: His best hope is to Scream until he isn't doubled, then turtle from there using Item or something like it. This probably depends on views a lot.
Against Cloud: Scream/Item lets him dodge any limits he wants.

That's probably slightly too strong, not a single match he clearly loses and I favour him in around 3. It's a shame because I really like this build. I suspect removing Item (or perhaps a harsh limit on his item supply) would make it fine, although that's obviously arbitrary.

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Maybe.

hinode

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2015, 01:03:59 AM »
Weapon Break is 400 AP, so explicitly out for Ramza. Aegis Shield buys him a fair amount of time vs Beowulf, but I'm not sure how well he is at actually killing the latter... Charge something would be his best bet, I think? But no Concentrate, so 1/3 attacks is probably going to be evaded.

Sylph is full healing for Rydia if I'm reading the stat topic correctly, and I wouldn't see summons as evadable. Offense isn't going to work for him there, and Bahamut overwhelms his healing I'm pretty sure.

I'd definately vote Rydia and Lyn over that Ramza build, and probably Beowulf. Demi... what's her lightning weakness again? If it's 2x, then Coral Sword Charge+3/4s (whichever he can pull off) might 2HKO her. If it's only 1.5x he's likely screwed there, don't think 1-2 Screams is enough.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2015, 01:29:19 AM »
Yeah, I forgot about Weapon Break being banned, my bad. That certainly costs him any shot at Beowulf. Demi's lightning weakness is 1.5x before defence (tends to end up as like 1.7-1.8x in practice).

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
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Laggy

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2015, 05:55:15 AM »
If people want to go wild with buff ideas and such (which is fine - that's kind of the main appeal of a twink league), you really should probably look at Light as a base rather than Middle when "upper Middle" is the desired power point. Taking competent Middles will generally just make them too good. The gauntlet is designed as a sanity check; you can still lose to 3/5 because of matchup specifics but still probably be off on the power scale.

EDIT: If you want some hilarity with Ramza, make him "little money" Ramza and give him a gil budget for all of his equipment and consumables to be used once per fight.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 06:03:19 AM by Laggy »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2015, 12:56:26 PM »
Oh, one more setup:

Blind Bruiser Lucia (SH2) - Lucia with a Mind's Eye. Otherwise DL-legal. Basically a stronger extension of her DL self. This gives her a lowish 2HKO that she can buff to a high 2HKO. You may want to give her accuracy issues due to Mind's Eye's nature, but I think this works. Also somewhat anti-status by default due to SH's general statusblocker goodness. Her subpar speed and durability should keep her in check for the tournament, at least.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 12:16:21 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2015, 02:05:46 AM »
Scrap my Albert build and replace with:

Kongol- Legend Casque (Takes about 65% from magic, making him have HP, Def and Mdef) or Magical Hat (50% more MP and same Magic Attack as Legend Casque), Gives him magic attack similar to Albert, Bandit Shoes (makes him 50 Speed; still slow), choice of Magical Ring (Increases Magic Attack by 30), Rainbow Earring (immunes non ID status), Amulet (Double MP) or Wargod Sash (+50% more SP). So middling damage, still bad speed, but durable and with options to shut off status, actually give him some SP growth or try to run some magical strategies if he goes against someone who is just anti-physical.

Hard to buff him without just going for speed. I figure this at least reflects a balanced version keeping his major flaw.
...into the nightfall.

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2015, 05:30:19 AM »
Laggy's suggestion sounds more fun than trying to salvage my other ideas.

Go right ahead and drop the Hero Talisman from Lemina if desired.  Still probably too strong.  Oh well, I have no big attachment to her making it in.

...and I forget that Diamond Armlet exists.  Too strong for Knight.  While I'm entertaining the idea of making him into a her, I have a sillier idea.

Natto the Singing Swordsman:  FFT Knight with

Sing
MA Save
nothing
Move + 3 or Fly

No Gauntlets or Diamond Armlet  Storebought equips otherwise.  Wanted to give him access to some knight swords but probably too powerful.  Considering throwing out Reflect Mail if it makes things too easy  Also open to restricting Mantles but would prefer not to.

Klutz maker Laguna
Has Siren and the following Junctions:
Confuse to Status Attack
One single status on Status Defense  Death, Break, Stop, and Aura are banned; too strong
No Character abilities set

He also gets Regen for casting because I find it funny to imagine him struggling for a Limit without reliable healing.

25% chance each turn of Laguna getting a leg cramp and doing nothing.  Every 4th action works for simplicity.

Draw, Magic, and Treatment are his commands.  (GF is a headache to implement)

She can heal herself Flonne
Has Heal and Star spells available st Skill level 5
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 01:22:29 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

Laggy

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2015, 06:27:21 AM »
Laggy's Gen 3 Jumpluff
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Moveset: Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Substitute, Aerial Ace

Only fights in glorious sunlight. If only I could be so grossly incandescent.
(this means Chlorophyll is assumed to be activated)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 06:37:35 AM by Laggy »
<Eph> When Laggy was there to fuel my desire to open crates, my life was happy.  Now I'm stuck playing a shitty moba and playing Anime RPGs.

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2015, 08:44:43 AM »
Yeah, I suppose scrap my earlier two ideas - no idea who to switch in for Joachim and Jane is a headache.



Officer Mariel -

Mariel (WAACF) with a Sheriff Star and on level with everyone else.

Has a lot more HP and defense, but that offense is still freaking sad.  Struggles to kill anything ever, but shouldn't ever die if she's not 2HKOed right out of the gate.



Vampire Viktor -

Viktor (Suikoden 2) with a Killer Rune and Draining Rune, and Exertion Rune on the weapon.

Doesn't really change his game much, aside from more damage from crits and healing...  And more damage over time.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Munchkin League - Nominations
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2015, 12:57:25 PM »
Laggy's Gen 3 Jumpluff
Carries Leftovers

Moveset: Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Substitute, Aerial Ace

Only fights in glorious sunlight. If only I could be so grossly incandescent.
(this means Chlorophyll is assumed to be activated)

I love you.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....