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Author Topic: What Games are you playing 2016?  (Read 125515 times)

Tide

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #675 on: April 02, 2016, 03:33:11 PM »
FE Fates: Done all three campaigns more or less. I do have the final map of Revelations to playthrough, but I want to do bonus crap and plan to make super kids so am doing that right now. Total time played through all 3 campaigns totals up to about 120 hours (about 50 on Nohr, 30 on Hoshido and 40 on Revelations).

I'm not in love with it as much as NEB is. In particular, I am with Fenrir in that I think part of the charm of FE is the simplicity, which makes it much easier to determine for example what maneuvers are safe and what isn't. In essence, any time you lose a unit, you could have math'd it out and planned around it. I felt that Fates over complicated some things such as having weapons that all changed stats, weapons with innate debuffing effects, changing the weapon triangle completely so that now one weapon can actually score two weaknesses and two strengths , etc. But the most notable change of course were the maps; at least the Nohr ones. I didn't mind them so much, but I think if you disliked XF maps cause you thought they were gimmicky, you will hate the Nohr campaign. Every map has a trick behind it and you often have to use the trick in order to win (otherwise, life gets very difficult). Some of these are easy to work with, others, not so much (sup Wind Map).

The game is still good - but maybe a  little over ambitious. I wouldn't worry about skill load outs for the most part to those that didn't want to try it because of that. I can confirm, that after playing through all 3 campagins, they are relatively minor on enemies and are more of a player based customization system. You can totally ignore it if you want and it won't hurt you all that much. What does stand out to me in the end are the maps. Most of them are very cleverly designed and as mentioned before, you can tell just from playing it that the designers have thought this through. The levels often have individual skirmish spots that contain 3-5 units and the game is designed such that no one type of unit can hold all of them in the game. This gives you an incentive to try out different units, and assemble teams where everyone has a unique role instead of just "use your best units" all the time. I feel that the map design gets in the way of this at times, but YMMV. Like for example, they fixed some polish issues such as no Ninja reinforcements. But the map design may make it such that it moves your units around or otherwise gets them stranded in some fashion that it puts you in a really bad spot (and the first time through, you might not know how the gimmick works or when it kicks in).

Positioning is a lot more important. Not just due to Dual Attacks and Guard stancing, but also from certain passive benefits from characters. Again, you can play without these but it's a player advantage, so you're obviously better off trying to take as much advantage of it as possible. Where you place your units (and when) can make all the difference as well.

Of the three campaigns, overall, I am most satisfied with the Revelations one. It has some nasty maps, but you also have a lot more units (and good ones at that! Sup royals) so there are more options to explore and the difficulty gets mitigated somewhat by that, which is genuinely cool. Nohr was a little too difficult for me on Hard (I had to go back to Normal around the last couple of maps) while Hoshido was a little easy. There's a mid-game stretch in Hoshido where the difficulty was pretty bad, although the late game maps pick up (that Hans map sticks out). Overall, pretty good game! Still think Radiant Dawn is probably the best of the series, but Fates is pretty damn solid and is probably slightly better than Awakening. Beats all the GBA FEs pretty easily. Some thoughts on the units I used/recall with text shrunk to avoid text walling and gameplay spoilers:

Avatar/Corrin/OK/Meeple/Bob: Whatever you want to call the avatar, he/she is pretty solid. I went with +speed boon and -skill bane in one and -res in two others. -Skill is probably still the best bane for practicality reasons because all those skill books you get, you can pretty much just feed him/her. Res on the other hand, has several good candidates. Great offense at all points, can even do some tanking with the Dragonstone if you wish. On promo, Hosh Noble is kinda unimpressive on skills but staves gives you a better utility role. Nohr Noble makes you better on offense (even though you get worse offensive stat boosts) by adding magic to your repetoire, giving you a great skill in Draconic Hex and ups your defenses, which is important if you want to use the avatar for holding down a line/drawing fire at any point.

Kaze: He has a really bad strength cap (15 at tier one) and his defenses are awful. However, he's blisteringly fast and incredible Res means he's a great mage slayer. The 1-2 range on Hidden weapons is really what makes Kaze good since he can avoid enemy attacks and debuff them even if his damage is kind of shoddy. Against mages, he just tends to one round them while taking little to no damage. Gets better in Revelations due to unique hidden weapons on both routes, letting him hit weaknesses on many enemy types. Can't do point combat or tank, but he's good support if nothing else.

Silas: I have some mixed feelings on this guy. On one hand, he's pretty good defensively between his Defense and HP. And god knows you need some good defensive units in the Hoshido campaign. On the other hand, his speed is really iffy. He tends to be really good if he gets adequate enough speed or really bad if he doesn't as just doesn't have enough defense to reduce damage to the point that doubling wouldn't hurt. In Revelations, he tends to fall into the latter category since he joins with only 15 speed or something at Level 18 (still higher than Xander but...). I had to Speedwings him to make him more usable. He did however, come with great stats everywhere else (Res in particular was much higher than expected). Once he's up to pace, he's great as mentioned. Dual weapons before promo, decent enough defense to tank a hit, high mobility, etc. Could fit a multitude of roles then.

Azura: Uh...Songstress is okay I guess? They will never be as good as in FE7 since they can't dodgetank or have unique buffs or be as good as Reyson/Herons due to mobility and refreshing multiple units.  I actually got better use out of Azura as a Sky Knight. I spent the other two campaigns trying to use her as a Songstress and it just doesn't really work. As a Sky Knight, you can at least use her as offense on point and she's great at that. Plus, she's a lot more mobile and on promo, staff utility is great. Amazing offensive growths, awful defensive ones sans Res. A good candidate for your Robes/Dracoshields.

Shura: I used him for a bit; he starts pretty great but mediocre to bad growths means he won't ever really become a staple. A worse Anna overall, but has good utility at the time when he's relevant (about 3-4 chapters).

Jakob: The better character from your retainers. He's pretty solid across the board. Passable defense and offense and staves! He does tend to fall behind after some point, but he never felt truly obsolete IMO. Staff utility is great when you can take a hit and do other stuff to help around too.

Felicia: Not as good as Jakob even on early join. Just...the physical stats are really bad (strength/defense/HP). She does get better when the Flame Shuriken arrives. Then she gets actual offense and can score KOs. Still remains as a constant physical liability though and runs screaming from anything with 1-2 range. Before then, she's a staff bot but can heal more than Jakob. I would almost always use Jakob before even considering using her though

Gunter: Is Capt K and Eph merged into one package. 10/10. Must use unit. In all seriousness, he's the actual Jeigan. Bad stats, bad growths but he's critical in the opening chapters since he can actually take a hit and dish it back out too. Later on, you can use him as a pair up bot, but I found that I was usually better off devoting a slot to someone else.

Mozu: Donnel-. However, she's easier to get started (Archer reclass means she doesn't need to be melee). Just doesn't end up as overstatted ever as Farm boy. Still pretty solid and a good bow user, which are actually more relevant this time around. Used her in all three campaigns actually!

Sakura: Hey, its a healer who's defenses are total garbage! I mean, she's not a tank, but she won't die to a stiff breeze. On promo, even gets a mage class as well, where you can put that meaty Mag stat to use. I used her as Priestess in Revelations actually stuck to Bronze Bows for a while so she can pick up the Shining Bow. At that point, she was one of my best units. Could ORKO a lot of stuff from it. Her strength won't be really all that impressive so its pretty easily the worse choice.

Hana: Massive offensive glass cannon. Her HP is abysmal and her Def isn't much better. However, being really fast and having really good strength means she's often able to drop whatever she is attacking. The Samurai starting skill really helps solidify her role as mainly an on-point unit. Dropped her pretty quick in Revelations since that type of build doesn't really buy into my preferences. But she's good at what she does.

Subaki: Uh...not sure. I've never gotten good growths out of him. My current plan in Eugenics!FE is to get him levels as a Samurai because his speed growth is pretty awful. He does however have pretty high base Def and supposedly good growths there. He's no Haar, but he's mobile and can take a hit in the opening chapters, which means he's useful there. Just dropped pretty early after.

Hayato: I think he's supposed to have good Speed, but the one time I used him, I wasn't really all that impressed. I dropped him pretty quick in Revelations since I really didn't need more point characters. And in Hoshido, he's really awful (joins at Level 1 when your dudes are like Level 15). I guess you can map grind him out, but eeeeeeeeeeh

Takumi: Archers are pretty good overall due to being more relevant from flying enemies, more weapon options and being a part of the triangle now. Takumi is probably the best though because of his unique bow, the Fujin Yumi. With it, he doesn't get Terrain penalties, so functionally, he's like a flying archer (can't cross impasses though). This is better than you would think since you can put him into positions where he can reach the enemies quicker or even safer by being on defensively sound terrain. Also, his stats/growths are in the right place (Str/Speed) and his defenses are total garbage either! Royals kinda good, and this will be a recurring theme.

Hianta: Unlike Hana, who had a definitive niche, I have no idea what Hinata is supposed to do. He got pretty bad level ups along the way...is he supposed to be like a tank SM? Anyway, dropped pretty quickly on both routes.

Oboro: She's actually pretty good and reminds me of Nephenee. Not all that strong starting out of the gate, but once caught up, she's a great asset. Defensively capable, offensively capable and doesn't have any truly crippling weaknesses. At the same time, she's not outstanding in any one direction, but can fit solidly into the army. Better in Revelations when you get Javs. In Hoshido, she almost always has to attack at 1 range.

Hinoka: Flyer older sisters are OP in this game. She makes a great flying RES tank and has great offense. You can also reclass her to a Spear Fighter to get better Defense but that comes at the cost of mobility. On promo, staff utility makes her one of the best units. MVP on Hoshido route. Just think if the game gave her a legendary weapon.

Saizo: Pretty solid, all things considered. I think this is because Ninja adds to his speed and he has already good defense growth naturally. Physically tankier and the better ninja of choice against physical units compared to Kaze, but worse magically.

Kagero: Unlike the two male ninjas, she's great on offense, but pretty bad defensively (as bad as Hana). So 1-2 range point character more or less. I find less of a reason to use her since I'm often strapped for defensive units versus offensive ones, but she's pretty decent all things considered.

Ryoma: Well, his defenses are kind of bad, but his raw evade (especially on point) is so good, you might not even notice. Then of course, his offense is godlike. 1-2 range weapon that adds 4 strength and 1 Speed makes it such that he often doubles and even one rounds things nicely. The only complaint really is that he's not as mobile to his counterpart in Xander and worse raw defense.

Elise: Elise is basically Hana once she promotes. Really good magical offense, but can't take a hit if her life depended on it. Does have staff utility though and hitting a better defensive stat often makes her more relevant despite being so physically frail. Her other promo choice (Maid) is uh...not good. Seriously, hidden weapons running off that strength?

Arthur: Oh look, it's Knoll with axes. So the perfect Eph unit. I found him pretty bad, but JUSTICE MUST LIVE ON etc. Would use him just for the VA.

Effie: She's alright when you first get her. As NEB noted, she's good at scoring OHKOs thanks to her passive and massive strength. Eventually enemies start doubling or she starts missing the ORKO and then she's pretty bad. You most likely have to fast promote her to General and then get to Level 5 so she grabs Wary Fighter to keep her relevant at that point. Just on Nohr, your experience is limited, so I dunno if this is doable without DLC...and if you want a wall, Benny is a better option.

Beruka: The passive is pretty great (+4 free damage essentially) and she has flight. The stats though are a lottery. Unlike the knights, she doesn't have access to it normally and she can either be Str/Def/Spd screwed, either one really sucks. Strength is the easiest to overcome though, thanks to the fact that she does have access to Trample, and her personal skill already adds damage that you should be utilizing when you can. She did turn out really good on my Nohr file, but got speed screwed in Revelations (that and better competition).

Selena: The better Hero of the Hero dual, although Heroes aren't that impressive. Better defenses makes it a pretty big deal. I don't recall her being particularly good, but she also wasn't awful either.

Camilla: MVP in Nohr route. Aside from joining with excellent stats, yet "under" levelled, she also has flight. She's also arguably MVP in Revelations because she keeps the same advantages + early join time too compared to her siblings. Her main competition there is Hinoka, but Hinoka joins later, so yeah. Oh, natural Trample and Savage Blow too for support. Again, flying older sisters are OP.

Niles: Has all the speed in the world, but the strength and defenses are off. Truly, probably best used like a thief unit, since I tried putting him on offense and was pretty disappointed. Adventurer was probably the better promo in hindsight since staves. But Shura joins at about the same time, so alas. Dropped eventually. In Revelations, joins really late so was pretty irrelevant at that point.

Odin: Needs to be reclassed almost immediately because his offensive stats are like flipped around. Once he gets caught up as a Sam, makes for a decent point unit. Again, not overly impressed, but ARGH MY ACHING BLOOD etc.

Leo: He doesn't look that impressive, but 1-2 ranged magical offense is pretty damn good. I've gotten great use out of him in both routes he's available on.

Benny: 6 Speed. Holy god, that is awful. However, Benny's main role is as a wall. He starts with 21 defense and it gets better pretty quick. You have to almost quick promote him though since he lacks Effie's strength and he's going to get doubled by everything that isn't a general (and that just leads to bad times). Used him in Revelations to round out my defenses and yeah, he does what he's supposed and is great at it.

Charlotte: The polar opposite of Benny. Massive offense, but bad defenses, although you have to work towards getting the offense started. Special shout outs for being the best mom for any physical oriented kids however. Never really used her since again, I had plenty of good offensive units so I didn't need to add another one my active party.

Laslow: The worse Hero of the Hero dual. Pretty bad defensively and lacks a truly defining niche. Dropped pretty quick after doing a quick comparison between him and Selena.

Peri: Can serve somewhat defensively and isn't bad offensively. Just overall, feels mediocre-ish.

Xander: Kind of wish I used Xander now in Nohr. Anyway, I avoided him initially because his starting speed is bad (15 at 20/4? Ew). But Seigfried gives him+4 Def, and it makes him really tanky. Oh also, it's 1-2 range. A good tank for sure since he also gains mobility. Speed eventually curbs itself I think, but a good candidate for those Speedwings if Silas didn't turn out badly. Used him in Revelations though, and yeah, he's a core part of my deployment.

Kaden/Keaton: Objectively similar. Kaden's more of a mage slayer, Keaton's better against physicals. I got more use out of Keaton though in Revelations and avoided both in their individual paths. Beasts are pretty decent since they can't get screwed over by Weapon Triangle. Kaden has an advantage in that he can dodgetank almost everything after a while doubling. Keaton's more average, but can take a hit physically and generally keep rolling.

Scarlet: Really good in the one campaign where she's available. Flight, defensively solid and good offense! She could deployed with little leveling before hand - just very solid. Lack of support options does hurt somewhat, but she's solid for long enough that it tends not to be significant long term.

Flora: If she had Felicia's speed, then maybe. As is though, egads. About the same speed as Xander but no way to really boost her defenses means she's almost as frail as Felicia. At least she does have strength though so she's not a total sitting duck. Staff utility means she's never truly bad, but yeah, she's...not good.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #676 on: April 02, 2016, 04:32:58 PM »
I actually agree with you in the case of some weapons which change stats (katanas, shuriken, naginata, etc.), it just seemed like a pointless extra gimmick. That said I do like the stat differences between some weapons within types, like how steel makes it harder for you to double or bronze makes you critical-resistant but unable to critical yourself. This is something I liked about the GBA games and it's done even better here, and really helps.

Debuffs are an idea that I think is worth the slight complication. Math-wise it doesn't even make things much worse, if there's an enemy ninja you just modify your defence downwards if you think they might hit you. Anyway I really liked the effect debuffs have on strategy, they make it harder to power through with one good unit and change around who will be effective in what situation.

Weapon triangle isn't actually any different, just now has all the weapons on it (except stones). The game colour-coordinates weapons to help you remember where bows and tomes now lie, which is nice! (I do have some issues with how the weapon triangle's exact mechanics work now, but that dates back to Shadow Dragon... it has some ups but also some downs compared to GBA/Tellius.)

As someone who really likes both XF and Fates, and thus obviously maybe isn't in a good position to comment on the feelings of people who are put off by non-standard map design elements (gimmicks if you will)... I feel like XF definitely had more gimmicks which I would expect to annoy people, like those two swamp battles in the first half of Chapter 1. Generally speaking Conquest lays out its gimmicks very clearly and they don't totally fuck over half your units randomly or anything like that, nor waste your time. Revelation I so far feel is a bit less well done, because it has more map gimmicks which either just aren't fun (pseudo-fog of war in C7 ugh) or the game takes too long to explain or reveal (waiting ages for DV points to appear in C12 so you can actually do things with units that aren't fliers). Again, I generally like map gimmicks, they're still a net positive on Revelation to me, but I do think Conquest's are generally of a well-thought-out, non-annoying type. Although the game can be brutally challenging on some difficulties so the map gimmicks are more likely to "be a problem" in that sense.

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Hianta: Unlike Hana, who had a definitive niche, I have no idea what Hinata is supposed to do.

It is really a mystery, isn't it. His growths are hilariously wrong for a samurai and completely go against the class's strengths. Which makes me think you might be better off sending him somewhere else where he can actually use his tankish bases/growths, but then his speed descends to be awful and he loses one of his only good points, his base C in swords.

I think he's probably one of the worst units in the game on either route, which I'm okay with because anyone with hair that bad deserves that fate.

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Random Consonant

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #677 on: April 02, 2016, 05:38:44 PM »
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but I think if you disliked XF maps cause you thought they were gimmicky, you will hate the Nohr campaign. Every map has a trick behind it and you often have to use the trick in order to win (otherwise, life gets very difficult). Some of these are easy to work with, others, not so much (sup Wind Map).

I'm looking at this sentence and going lolwut here.  A lot of XF gimmicks were awful/underthought and boiled down to use the prescribed class you should be using, citizen, compounded with some of the most pointlessly large and empty map design this side of FE4, and was honestly kind of toxic about it before a point.  I'm trying to think of a map in Conquest that compares and coming up short (apparently I didn't find C20 that bad for all that I can see why it'd annoy, I'd take it over Night of Farewells though), whatever the worst Conquest maps are, they're generally not because of their gimmicks.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 08:13:44 PM by Random Consonant »

Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #678 on: April 03, 2016, 02:40:33 AM »
Salt + Sanctuary:

I got pretty far. I'm level 65?
The miracle build is surprisingly ridiculously fun. I now have 9 staminestus so I can use miracles for a while. And I got a few really powerful spells, the absolute best being a super punchy pillar of light around the character that sends foes flying, and a sword familiar that hovers around the character and attacks anytime I attack, doing huge holy damage. I also have the usual (healing, defense buff, light) and some unlimited stamina miracle that I don't even use it anymore.

One thin I hadn't realized up until now is that getting hit always slightly lowers max HP (until the next bonfire), so after about 6 estuses you are way weaker than usual. Healing spells restore max HPs. I don't know how classic builds get around that problem - They don't even get more HP than this build because HP is tied to level.

I haven't found any wisdom scaling weapon yet... But the hovering sword familiar is good enough. My main weapon is now a small dagger, not for its offensive capabilities, but because it's the best weapon for the sword familiar thanks to its low recovery time.

Level design was nice and intricate at first, now shortcuts are everywhere and levels seem to stretch up to infinity below the earth.
I really like the bosses in this, especially the Queen of Smiles and Mad Alchemist.

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #679 on: April 03, 2016, 01:31:42 PM »
Just going to echo that yeah, as someone who wasn't a major fan of XF Gimmick maps, there's no way you can compare Conquest to them.  Conquest feels more built around trying to be creative within the restrictions of Fire Emblem, forcing you to adopt different strategies, but not build your team specifically around a gimmick.  XF, it's the complete opposite; it's gimmicks restricting you from what is otherwise a very free form game.  One of XF's strengths is the job system after all, yet XF has gimmick maps that restrict that aspect asking you to bring specific jobs or abilities to certain maps.  Luckily the game is good about telling you what you need, but it's still a restriction.

XF's maps feel closer to, say, FFTA Laws than they do Conquest's design.  Make no mistake, XF is nowhere near that bad; the game tells you what you need, and doesn't punish you for using a skill you aren't suppose to, and since all jobs are unlocked via plot, you always have access to what you need, or you can at least refit your team, where as FFTA, if you're using a bunch of sword users and the game suddenly goes "NO SWORDS!"?  You're SOL.
Conquest feels more like they put a lot of thought and effort into each map to make a single dominant unit unable to take it, and honestly, they've succeeded.  There's an extremely high frustration level but so far my mindset is more "ok, what could I have done differently to avoid that?"  I was discussing this once and I feel the biggest thing about Conquest's map design is they're built heavily around your approach.  It's not about just who is put where or what do I do on this turn, it's about thinking multiple turns ahead.  It's about how do you approach this turn without it biting yo in the ass two turns down the line.  Do you split your forces up and deal with both sides at the same time?  OR do you destroy one side, but risk giving the other side a favorable position making your life tougher.

In short, Conquest is very much "What do I have, and how can I use it in this instance?"  XF was more "What is the game letting me do?"  The latter is basically forcing you to play by new rules, the other is more changing the obstacle course while keeping the rules the same.
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Sierra

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #680 on: April 03, 2016, 01:39:22 PM »
Undertale: Mega-happy ending got. I don't think it fundamentally changes my feelings about the game, but at least the ending feels more thorough than the neutral one. And Alphys makes a lot more sense too. I remain notably susceptible to sentiment while also being turned off by stories going full-on Power of Friendship at the last minute, so it's the personal moments that always work for me.

Anyway, game done, I hit the LP to scan for genocide mode (ew), easter eggs, and other random things that I might have missed. Which is kind of a lot? The amount of extra dialogue they wrote in to account for killing/sparing individual characters and savescumming around specific events is amazing. For all that there was only ever one way I personally could be inclined to play, it turns out that it's an extraordinarily responsive game to differences in player behavior.

Also: I was reasonably thorough in talking to everyone in the towns during the ending but didn't go out of my way to find everyone outside of them (lack of a sprint option in this game is really noticeable when you have to backtrack). Felt like I saw plenty before walking back to the throne room. What I definitely hadn't noticed while doing this is that Toriel fills up your phone with dorky text messages while you walk. Toriel is great.

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #681 on: April 03, 2016, 02:51:28 PM »
FE - Doing Revelations on good mode.  Not many maps deep but I kinda see what Tide is describing?  There is a way you should approach the map for it to work or die.  The way it works may be different but if the end result is in restriction of player experimentation and it being less strategic (or straight math in some cases in FE I guess for Tide?) and more puzzle.
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Sierra

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #682 on: April 03, 2016, 09:40:36 PM »
Salt + Sanctuary: Fenrir forgot to mention the most important thing is that there's a chef class and your starting weapon is a frying pan.

Actually picking this was probably a bad idea since it's basically the Deprived equivalent but whatevs, too late now. I've beaten a couple bosses by this point and have a DEX build in progress. I am running with a knife and a whip and no shield because I don't learn anything ever.

Actual platforming means that there is even more gravity-related death than in any Souls game, which is saying something.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 09:42:27 PM by El Cideon »

Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #683 on: April 03, 2016, 11:20:07 PM »
Yeah I don't know why I've forgotten that. I obviously took this class. You can also throw potatoes at enemies.
There is a peasant class that is supposed to be the deprived equivalent? I am pretty sure that the chef is worse because I switched from frying pan to pitchfork (Peasant's weapon) right when I could and it was 10 times better.

Metroidvania lock and key secrets + Souls lack of map is eeeeh, but I can still live with it. I'm not sure whether lategame levels are incredibly large or if it's just the lack of a map that amplifies map size in my head.
Anyhow, I think I am near the end of the game, I have all the upgrades. Now there is plaforming hell.

I got a cool scythe with wisdom scaling, pumped all my levels into wis and have wrecked the last few bosses. The unicorns, though! I am not ready, nor will I ever be ready, for the unicorns.


Hyper Light Drifter: Yeah so I'm liking this too.
This could very well be Peak Pixel Art. Design, animation and environments are all gorgeous. There is no dialogue, instead NPCs talk to you through beautiful little Phantasy Star 4 like vignettes.
Fights are finite and each fight looks like it was thought out. So far so good.
On paper this would be a game that's too tight, too good, too carefully constructed for me; I don't get much joy from games on rail. This one's looking like an exception though.

Tide

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #684 on: April 04, 2016, 12:01:41 AM »
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I'm looking at this sentence and going lolwut here.  A lot of XF gimmicks were awful/underthought and boiled down to use the prescribed class you should be using, citizen, compounded with some of the most pointlessly large and empty map design this side of FE4, and was honestly kind of toxic about it before a point.  I'm trying to think of a map in Conquest that compares and coming up short (apparently I didn't find C20 that bad for all that I can see why it'd annoy, I'd take it over Night of Farewells though), whatever the worst Conquest maps are, they're generally not because of their gimmicks.

I found some of the Conquest maps were worse than those of XF (in fact, I never felt frustrated with XF. The puzzle maps are clearly puzzles and you even get a DER that you *can't* skip.  With Conquest? Some of the Dragonveins you won't know what it does until you actually play it). As for using the prescribed class? Other than the puzzle maps and maybe the early game maps (such as the swamp as already noted) I respectfully disagree. Name me one map where you think this is the case because I seriously want to know what you think is such a "toxic" map (also because SCIENCE). You can say the puzzle maps were dumb (I don't - YMMV) but I honestly can't think of any other map that has that problem. I assume you are referring Night of Farewells on Hard because I've never had an issue with that map on Normal.

PS: Also thanks for being rude about it. It reminds me why I stopped posting in these topics. Apparently, having a different opinion is "lolwut".

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Conquest feels more built around trying to be creative within the restrictions of Fire Emblem, forcing you to adopt different strategies, but not build your team specifically around a gimmick.

I'm not sure if I agree with that if I'm reading this correctly. Conquest maps certainly feel restrictive because you're largely swayed into using the gimmick of the map. I mean, yes, you don't need to, but life just gets so much more difficult. In that way, you're kind of building your team around a gimmick anyway (the current map's), which encourages to change up your army line up.

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XF, it's the complete opposite; it's gimmicks restricting you from what is otherwise a very free form game.  One of XF's strengths is the job system after all, yet XF has gimmick maps that restrict that aspect asking you to bring specific jobs or abilities to certain maps.

See, here's the thing for me with XF. Changing classes in XF to adapt to a gimmick is much easier than it is in Conquest. You just go a new class and hit confirm. Done. With Conquest, it's not that simple and a lot more unforgiving. You need money, which is restrictive for class changing. If the unit doesn't use the same weapon type, then they're stuck with a bad weapon too. If you're trying to bring in a new unit, you need the unit to be at a level that is not total suck for the map (doesn't have to be equal, but if you're too far off, it will take too long for them to catch up and be relevant). Then, you would still need to not get RNG screwed.

XF is less frustrating about these aspects because there is literally no barrier to go into a new class. So asking you to bring specific jobs isn't exactly a hurdle. If you're referring to the puzzle maps being dumb, then let's just agree to disagree. I don't think they were great, but I do appreciate the things that they do as a result of that sort of map and they don't occur that often to ruin the experience. In that way, it is way more enjoyable.

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There is a way you should approach the map for it to work or die.  The way it works may be different but if the end result is in restriction of player experimentation and it being less strategic (or straight math in some cases in FE I guess for Tide?) and more puzzle.

Grefter gets it, yeah. At the end of the day, you are still swayed to follow what the designers wanted. In Conquest, every map for me was this dread of "what is the gimmick this time" because I knew every map would have one after like halfway and if I didn't try to use it, I would get punished. Ultimately, Conquest got way too complicated for me for a Fire Emblem game. It goes back to what I said in that I appreciated the simplicity of older FEs, which felt lost somewhat in this instalment. It's great if you enjoy that kind of thing! But yeah, if you're going to be an ass about it, then please go elsewhere. 

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Grefter

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #685 on: April 04, 2016, 01:25:43 AM »
I was waiting for someone to post about Hyper Light Drifter to say "Hey DJ and Sopko, you should both check this out, it looks up your alley".  No one did so I sent a message to Djinn on Line specifically for it.

It looks like 2D Zelda games, Leiji Matsumoto and Heavy Metal had a three way and no one can tell who the parents are.
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #686 on: April 04, 2016, 01:44:37 AM »
FE Fates Revelation - Completed, 10/10 would marry xander to ryoma again (just kidding, god doesn't love me that much)

Celestian Tales: Old North - I decided to pick this up again once I finished the FEF bender. It's a lovely game with beautiful art, the writing is pretty good if a little stiff, but the gameplay is quite engaging if a little on the easy side so far.

I had a gaming night with some friends last night. I played Smash 4 (mostly tried to teach noobs the game), Mario Kart, and tried Nintendo Land for the first time. It has a five player Luigi's Mansion themed minigame where one person plays as a ghost trying to kill the other players, and the other four cooperate to try to defeat the ghost. It is pretty atmospheric even though it's silly Mario stuff, and lots of laughs were had. We also played an Animal Crossing themed minigame about eating candy and another one of tag (also 1 vs. 4 games).

Also picked up Hyrule Warriors Legends. It lets you switch characters in-battle, which is pretty rad. Graphically it's a step down from the WiiU game, but portable HW is still a thing that I like.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 01:49:47 AM by Luther Lansfeld »
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #687 on: April 04, 2016, 01:50:06 AM »
S+S: Holy shit the boss at the bottom of the Red Hall of Cages. How is this possible, I don't understand. There's too much happening on my screen right now. And that's when the dickhead swordsman doesn't follow me into the boss room. Fenrir please tell me there's somewhere else I can go right now.

On the plus side I got a fancy crown and a nice dress. Minus side the dress has literally zero in almost all defensive stats and I'm definitely not confident enough to run no defense in this game. I'm also picking up lots of cool sounding spells and I can't use any of them.

The mimics in this game are definitely a thing.

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #688 on: April 04, 2016, 02:17:49 AM »
Ghost game was pretty great, mostly because it plays out like a cheesy horror movie before the non-ghosts get good at strategy.

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #689 on: April 04, 2016, 04:51:23 AM »
It looks like 2D Zelda games, Leiji Matsumoto and Heavy Metal had a three way and no one can tell who the parents are.

Also somehow Fez.  And I get notes of Secret of Nimh.  But mostly Nausicaa (not the movie - the super duper way more depressing manga).  It has a great 80's vibe, but not the sort people think about these days.  More the mournful sci fi sort.  The music of the game is raw and synthy, tense and atmospheric, and the game dials up and down the intensity to match the mood within an area.  Not something you'd just dial up for a listen, but it works very well in context.

Anyway I'm playing it, in fact I haven't done much else for the past 2 days.  Nearly done.  Game's brilliant but there are going to be people it just doesn't resonate with.  Combat is hard, and there is a large focus on finding hidden items in the vein of "hug this wall, manipulate the camera to see if there's anything off-screen, poke and prod the levels until they surrender their secrets."  As Fenrir suggested, this is a tight game, highly curated.  I dig that kind of design, so this is pretty much catnip to me.

I'm about 90% of the way in.  I had unrealistically high expectations for the game, and it has met them.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 04:57:05 AM by NotMiki »
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #690 on: April 04, 2016, 06:17:28 AM »
The Fez elements is easy to explain.  Same musician doing the soundtracks and he stands out.  I think when they were working with that they riff on Fez a bit.
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #691 on: April 04, 2016, 07:26:33 AM »
Perhaps so.  Also should mention Titan Souls, another exploration-focused top-down game with pixel art.
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #692 on: April 04, 2016, 07:53:15 AM »
Yes to all that

Cid, keep going right from the starting position and you'll be able to use an obelisk to go to a castle with a wyrm. (You probably already did this?) From there, finish everything and go right again to go to the dome where you can do cool new stuff.

But you can probably beat the tree. It's a trick battle. I also immediately died against it five times before getting the hang of it. Protip: don't stay on the lower platform + get some fire defense
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 03:30:35 PM by Fenrir »

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #693 on: April 04, 2016, 08:13:09 AM »
Re: S&S, is there a PC version planned or is it going to be PS4 Exclusive?

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #694 on: April 04, 2016, 08:36:31 AM »
Wiki says planned for PC and Vita but no dates.
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #695 on: April 04, 2016, 08:41:24 AM »
It's cool DS3 is coming out soon so hopefully that'll be out by the time I get bored of DS3.

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #696 on: April 04, 2016, 09:11:33 AM »
You mean by the time Laggy has used you up and worn you out like the second hand condom you are?
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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #697 on: April 04, 2016, 09:53:09 AM »
yeah basically

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #698 on: April 04, 2016, 10:32:07 AM »
Yes to all that

Cid, keep going right from the starting position and you'll be able to use an obelisk to go to a castle with a wyrm. (You probably already did this?) From there, finish everything and go right again to go to the dome lf the forgotten where you can do cool new stuff.

But you can probably beat the tree. It's a trick battle. I also immediately died against it five times before getting the hang of it. Protip: don't stat on the lower platform + get some fire defense

Yeah, I killed the dragon already. First attempt! Then I talked to the thief girl and she was all like, "No way would I try to fight a dragon with a dagger." <-- Exactly what I did. I guess I will go to the dome next because fuck It's Rainin' Men. Between fireballs and dudes throwing flaming axes and flame jets and foot stomp shockwaves that are almost guaranteed death because I always land on the wooden platforms which crumble and drop me in a pit before I move again and the stupid ghost enemy that's carrying my souls salt from the last time I fell down a pit, there is just no way I can keep track of everything I have to dodge at once. I try to stay up top, but that has its own hazards. Less instant-deathy hazards, but they're there all the same. After I stopped playing for the day I remembered why wasn't I wearing the blacksmith outfit again? And I guess the answer is just that I'd been playing for hours and was braindead by that point.

Forgot to mention one nice thing is that you can basically stockpile levels for later use in this game. You can spend all your salt whenever you hit a sanctuary and technically you level up right then (get more HP), but you don't automatically advance on the skill tree. You get one item per level that you can spend on skill advancement whenever you feel like it. So if you're not immediately sure what you want to get, you can just go ahead and accumulate those without worrying about losing all your accumulated resources on one death.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 10:34:03 AM by El Cideon »

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Re: What Games are you playing 2016?
« Reply #699 on: April 04, 2016, 03:48:41 PM »
I should never write forum posts on my phone, my messages make no sense. How did you even translate my post?

Against It's raining men , I just stayed on either of the top platforms , right near the edge so the tree's punches didn't instantly throw me into a bottomless pit. I also equipped the crimsonish purplish robe and basically ignored fire damage except whenever it was right there melting my face.
But I used the level 5 miracle liberally and it helped a lot. I don't know how you are supposed to deal with the final phase of the fight with just regular melee. Especially just a dagger.

Mimics are another great thing stolen from Dark Souls. I expected them the whole game, I really thought I was ready, but no. Goddamn mimics.

Also, isn't finding extra level orbs just awesome?

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« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 03:53:14 PM by Fenrir »