Author Topic: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one  (Read 66822 times)

dunie

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #625 on: February 04, 2017, 02:55:36 AM »
yes alex
yes duck
 reiterate: [21:53] (+dunsters) fyi, dhs is taking calls abt bannon's appt according to splc. 2022244751

Cotigo

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #626 on: February 04, 2017, 04:08:42 AM »
https://traviscountystrong.wixsite.com/tc-strongertogether

Crowdfunding for Travis County law enforcement programs (and all their social programs and subsidiaries) to continue functioning, since Gov. Abbott followed through on his threats to pull all state funds.  If y'all want to do something actually effective, here you go, actual law enforcement resisting the executive orders and campaigning for sanity and the rule of law.

A bill to empower the governor to unilaterally remove and replace any elected official that he deems noncompliant with Trump's executive orders made it out of committee today.  Kind of surreal that Austin is in fact becoming ground zero, but here we are.

Thanks! Passed along to the people still listening to me

Ranmilia

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #627 on: February 04, 2017, 11:57:21 AM »
Let's see if I can be a little less braindead in resummarizing what's going on here.

- This is about Trump's first set of executive orders on immigration.  Not the one closing the borders and trapping people in airports, the earlier one about "cracking down on sanctuary cities" that I think most media glossed over.

- What Trump & co. say they want to do is make all levels of law enforcement have to answer to Immigration (and Homeland Security).  Anyone who happens to be arrested for any reason or charged with any crime (not convicted!) can be held indefinitely, outside of the normal due process, if Immigration and Customs Enforcement makes a request to hold them and "investigate their immigration status."  In practice this is the same thing the infamous Sheriff Joe Arpaio did during his tenure in Arizona: racial profiling runs unchecked and anyone who doesn't look white can find themselves jailed for days, weeks or months, with few legal recourses. 

- Except even worse, because the suspects have to be held in jail at the expense of local law enforcement, local law enforcement are the ones on the liability hook if they wind up detaining someone who turns out to be here legally and sues in response, and having such a detainment policy in place makes people (especially immigrants, legal or illegal) less likely to report crimes or cooperate with local police.  Lots of jurisdictions hate them, and Obama's administration was trying to more or less phase them out and get a different system in place.

- Federal courts have ruled that compliance with these orders is voluntary for local law enforcement, detainee's Fourth Amendment rights are definitely violated if they are actually held beyond their otherwise normal release date, such requests require probable cause to be issued in the first place, and it's disputable if ICE has authority to issue them even *with* probable causeSome more stuff on how Trump is changing the policies here. 

- Conservatives label cities whose police departments do not comply with these orders as "sanctuary cities" where illegal immigrants are free to rape and murder honest Americans.

- Sally Hernandez ran for Travis County Sheriff on an explicit platform of stopping these detainment requests and only detaining people who are actually convicted of something, or who are accused of a capital crime (murder, sexual assault, or human trafficking).  This was and remains very popular with Travis County voters - she was elected with 63% of the vote, and is (quite rightfully imo)currently claiming that she is acting fully within the law, protecting everyone's constitutional rights, and has a mandate from the voters to do so.

- Governor Greg Abbott disagreed and tried to order her to comply anyway (despite the fact that being governor gives him no legal standing to do so).  When she still refused, he threatened to cut off all state grants and funding to Travis County law enforcement programs, and to remove her from office (despite the fact that he has no legal standing to do so).  When she *still* refused, he followed through on cutting the funding, and is seeking to remove her by asking the state legislature to make a new law empowering the governor to remove and replace any elected official who does not comply with ICE requests.  The bill is being fast tracked, declared an emergency item, and cleared out of committee today (yesterday by the time anyone reads this).  Even Fox News is astonished at the level of bullshit on display here.  It is clearly what one might call Hella Unconstitutional to depose an elected official in this way - the Legislature does not have the legal standing to do it or empower the governor to do it either - but that isn't stopping them from trying.

- The outcome of this struggle is likely to shape national precedent for how law enforcement agencies and local authorities respond to Trump's executive orders, and is a test case for the possibility of conservative governments ousting elected officials for noncompliance without due process or legal backing.  This is really, really important and potentially *the* case that determines how far authoritarianism in the US can go right now.   

- AND! Regardless of the outcome of Abbott vs Hernandez, oops, all the state grant funding for Travis County agencies got cut off.  All of it.  Not just the Sheriff's department.  Everything from the DMV offices to police salaries to substance abuse programs to National Guard veteran's benefits has been defunded, and will be defunded for at least a couple of months - even if Abbott had a change of heart tomorrow morning, returning the grant funding is a lot more difficult and time consuming than stopping it was.  It may even need total reapproval from the Legislature.  If, yknow, they were inclined to do that.  A huge number of people are going to be hurt by this, no matter what else happens now, and that's why Hernandez, Austin's US Rep Lloyd Doggett and the Democratic Party are setting up this crowdfunding campaign to try and help the county remain somewhat functional.

If you have money you were considering donating somewhere, please consider this.  I'd say "even if you aren't Texan, call Texas officials about  this" except it's unclear who you would even call, and the lines in the sand are pretty much drawn already.  This is like 10000000 "strongly worded statements" level of importance though.

BONUS RICK PERRY TAKE: 'Perry said the blame for that and any subsequent action in other parts of Texas aren’t the state’s fault.
“The state did not remove those funds,” he said. “The action of the jurisdiction, their decision to violate the law” did.'

PS. Hey kid wanna read some Breitbart?  You really don't, but Hernandez is getting a lot of death threats, in case you were wondering.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 12:14:05 PM by Sir Alex »

Cotigo

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #628 on: February 05, 2017, 11:27:14 AM »
Alex, you the man. This is the perfect case study/good cause to throw cash at. Keep us updated.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #629 on: February 06, 2017, 08:26:50 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/us/politics/trump-white-house-aides-strategy.html?_r=0

Really good article on how things seem to be playing out inside the White House.

Cotigo

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #630 on: February 06, 2017, 02:06:44 PM »
Hey there everybody, I am here to sing the same damn note I've been singing for the past week and a half.

Your Daily Action Item:

Go here.

https://oversight.house.gov/subcommitt…/national-security-2/

See these folk? I want everyone to blast these congressfolk's social media accounts with this link:

youtu.be/LHcY4YZYcg8

It's the video of Steve Bannon calling for the rise of "church militants" that you may have seen floating around. I want to make sure every member of the House Subcommittee on National Security is aware of Mr. Bannon's radical views and outright calling for the destruction of America.

For each representative, share the video on BOTH Facebook and Twitter--links are provided on the House website.

Take a second look. Are any of these representatives YOUR representative? Call them and inform them of the clear and present danger to our country that Mr. Bannon represents.

Example script for Facebook:
Quote
Good morning. I am sending this to you because of your placement on the House Subcommittee on National Security. Please review this video of Mr. Steve Bannon, the chief political strategist to the president, openly calling for religious violence.
youtu.be/LHcY4YZYcg8

Example script for Twitter. This should meet the character limit even after @ing the rep. in question:
Quote
Good morning. I am sending you this bc u r on the House Subcommittee on Natl.Security
youtu.be/LHcY4YZYcg8

Cotigo

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #632 on: February 07, 2017, 06:03:59 PM »
Y'know, if we get out of this alive and with a functioning representative democracy?   http://democracyjournal.org/arguments/keep-it-simple-and-take-credit/

* CK Fucking salutes.*
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

NotMiki

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #633 on: February 07, 2017, 07:31:17 PM »
Y'know, if we get out of this alive and with a functioning representative democracy?   http://democracyjournal.org/arguments/keep-it-simple-and-take-credit/

* CK Fucking salutes.*

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2015/10/30/2015-27143/student-assistance-general-provisions-federal-family-education-loan-program-and-william-d-ford

Here's the federal register entry for the REPAYE regulations that have allowed me to save thousands of dollars on student loan interest over the past year and a half.  I had to read them to understand how the regs worked to know if I could use the benefit.

Buried in this entry is the reason why: the regulation HAD to be complicated and HAD to have some unpopular features (notably using AGI of a borrower and their spouse, rather than just the borrower's AGI to calculate payments) because the DOE lacks the statutory authority to write a simpler rule, because a simpler rule would cost too much money.  So you get a complex rule instead.  Best they could do with what they had.

Now let's talk about simple, easy-to-understand actions you can take credit for.  Ever hear of Trump's Muslim Ban?  It's simple, and easy to understand, and the simplicity of slamming the door on everyone, immediately, with no exceptions, is the very factor that has caused untold human suffering over the past 2 weeks.  If he had enacted the same ban, but it had been effective a month from now with a boatload of specific exceptions for people already in the visa process, it would have been significantly less destructive.

It's the same with legislation - if you want to, for example, enact a healthcare law in a way that doesn't blow up entire industries and send thousands to the unemployment lines, it's gonna be complex. by necessity. And if you're gonna enact legislation that does some good but you need a few Rs to vote for it, you bet your ass it's gonna be complex, by political necessity.
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The Duck

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #634 on: February 07, 2017, 08:37:10 PM »
DeVos in.

Grefter

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #635 on: February 07, 2017, 09:08:29 PM »
So are we allowed to make fun of the American education system now?
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Captain K

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #636 on: February 07, 2017, 11:18:27 PM »
You could do that already.  Now it's just sad rather than funny.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #637 on: February 07, 2017, 11:30:22 PM »
Jim- Yeah, political sausage is messy and Obama was president under rather awful circumstances all around.  But that's not really the point.
Like... okay, REPAYE?  Send out a fucking bat signal for that!
Stamp the Obama Emblem on all those bridges!
Make the Republicans pay in blood for 8.  Straight.  YEARS. of doing nothing.  Instead of, y'know, making gains hand over fist on the basic premise of "Government has failed, look at it failing!"
The ACA is complex and sometimes unpopular, and people don't respond to big numbers much.  So why hammer on the numbers and not the more straightforward bit of how it's saved lives of uninsurable, let the self-employed get actual coverage, and is the first wave of much-needed Medicaid expansions?

Basically the only thing Democrats really trumpeted about during the entire Obama administration with a clear a to b line drawn for the audience was "We killed Bin Laden".  Which people respond to!  But apparently the focus groups just can't get behind straightfoward lines being drawn so people know how their lives have improved over 8 entire years?  That's just freakin' dumb.

Also: we have seen today the limits of "get Republican votes", ie "not enough to matter, half of them are bought and paid for and the other half are actually in favor of radical Christian supremacy".  SO yeah, trying to reach across the aisle is just getting Dems their asses handed to them, and since no small part of the Left is watching all this VERY CLOSELY it's almost certainly going to come from both ends.
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #638 on: February 08, 2017, 12:17:31 AM »
DeVos in.

Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn.:

" ... she is the most incompetent cabinet-level nominee I have ever seen. Last night, I urged my Republican colleagues to oppose her nomination, because if we cannot set party loyalty aside long enough to perform the essential duty of vetting the President's nominees, then I don't know what we are even doing here."
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

NotMiki

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #639 on: February 08, 2017, 07:45:32 AM »
CK I generally agree that Dems could do better at messaging.  I took issue with the article you posted and its Obamacare flow chart.  That's clearly not messaging - whatever it was taken from was a good faith effort to actually explain the details that people eventually need to deal with.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/02/the_democrats_never_had_a_chance_against_betsy_devos.html

Anyway, I hope the amount of attention Democrats have put on Betsy DeVos - who they had no chance whatsoever of stopping - demonstrates that they're doing what they can with the very, very little they have to work with.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #641 on: February 15, 2017, 09:06:37 PM »
Flynn out, Puzder (Mr let's replace all humans with robots) dropped. This is unraveling at an incredible pace.

SnowFire

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #642 on: February 15, 2017, 10:11:08 PM »
Let's not get too optimistic here.  If the Senate Republicans was going to chop off 9 of the patient's fingers to cure him, and then became convinced that perhaps they should only chop off 8, this is definitely a step forward, but it's still pretty bad.  Merely the people Trump has who've already been confirmed can keep the truck headed for the cliff at high speed.  (I hope I'm wrong.)

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #643 on: February 15, 2017, 11:33:42 PM »
It's too early to feel safe. I'll finish you here

This news merely means that I am a little less depressed, but I can't even be cautiously optimistic until either Bannon's out or congress gets its shit together and actually holds Trump accountable for blatantly being a corrupt Russian tool. And congress isn't doing that so long as it's under Republican control, no matter how undeniably egregious Trump's infractions become.

The Duck

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #644 on: February 15, 2017, 11:45:00 PM »
I'm not particularly optimistic but there's a sheer lack of basic competence here. That makes the range of possibilities pretty wide, for good and bad.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #645 on: February 15, 2017, 11:53:14 PM »
It's true. The more publicly badly things go for Trump, the less coherent he becomes, and the more he takes it out on his staff, who take it out on their subordinates, who then leak to the press to cope with the stress and frustration, which only destabilizes their boss further in a feedback loop of infighting and petty recrimination. It's an astonishing primer on how running a business =/= running a government.

Grefter

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #646 on: February 16, 2017, 05:21:27 AM »
Abuse, where trickle down economics actually work!
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NotMiki

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #647 on: February 16, 2017, 01:51:30 PM »
Cid let's not forget: Trump is pretty shitty at running businesses too.  His talents lie in self-preservation, not management or strategic vision.
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #648 on: February 16, 2017, 06:45:33 PM »
Dear God.

Listening to the live news conference right now. 

It is...so bad it's DEPLORABLE
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Shale

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #649 on: February 16, 2017, 08:29:10 PM »
"Unhinged" is way too kind a word for that clusterfuck. Hell, so's "clusterfuck."
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[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.