Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one

[Lady Door]

You are correct, it is a country club.

Which makes this answer even more out of touch. You wanna comment about inclusiveness when addressing racial tension by citing your exclusive, members-only country club? Way to completely miss the goddamned boat on what the problem actually is.

I saw someone say it somewhere else, but Trump seems to think that owning a property somewhere is his way of saying "oh yeah, I know that place and those people."

[NotMiki]

I think it was a country club, not a night club. As in, a golf course.

way harder to keep black dudes out of a night club amirite

[Grefter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgM3r8xKfGE

[The Duck]

I think it was a country club, not a night club. As in, a golf course.

way harder to keep black dudes out of a night club amirite

Just enforce a "dress code."

[metroid composite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQrKH03UKP0

This is eerily like the noises in my head.  Except they use less profanity.

The whole idea of "getting Trump into the office will be good for the left, because it will incite revolution" just...does not have history backing it.

For a recent example, Bush got in in 2000.  Did a shit job, and by 2004 it was known to be shit, that there were no WMDs.  Not only was there no political revolution, he won his re-election.

For a more chilling example...quoting directly from Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism

German Communists continued to deny any essential difference between Nazism and Social Democracy even after elections in 1933. The KPD, under the leadership of Ernst Thälmann, coined the slogan "After Hitler, our turn!" – strongly believing that united front against Nazis wasn't needed, and that the workers would change their opinion and recognize that Nazism, unlike Communism, didn't offer a true way out of Germany's difficulties.

"If the Germans screw up and elect Hitler, their mistake will be super obvious to the public and they will come running to the left in the next election".  Hm, I wonder how that worked out for them?  Oh right

After Adolf Hitler's Nazis came to power in Germany, the KPD was outlawed and thousands of its members, including Thälmann, were arrested.

This whole "electing nutcases is good because people will realize their mistake" doesn't work when the nutcases control propaganda.  This happened with W Bush.  I'm positive it would happen with Trump.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Even aside from the propaganda they control or ability to silence their enemies, being in power normalizes them. By nature all opposition starts comparing themselves to them, and their successors will adopt similar views to try to recapture their success (e.g. Ronald Reagan essentially gave the Republicans three presidential terms in a row for the only time in their history -> the next generation of Republicans seeks to emulate him). If Trump wins the election, he becomes a valid model for electoral victory in the future, even if he is seen as a bad president.

[Cmdr_King]

Obviously.  That's uh... a very very small part of the video there?  And is pretty quickly shut down as a stupid way to think?

It's more "Trump getting into office will kill thousands, if not millions."  "The system is broken and we're out of time to take the necessary steps to avert environmental or electoral disaster."  It's a loop with no clear way to break it.  Another 8 years at the rate of progress we have now will quite likely put us beyond the point of no return environmentally, assuming we're not already past it.  The resentment that's fueling Trumpism shows no signs of abating, and I question if the will required to beat it back will be there in 8 years, even assuming that Clinton improves enough in her first term to get reelected.  There's no existing alternatives that can viably be formed into a truly progressive party, the required split in the Republican party looks more unlikely by the day, and the Democrats are unlikely to even honor the platform they have, let alone continue the push left.

On and on like that in my head.

[Laggy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-now-blaming-obama-for-embarrassing-override-of-his-veto_us_57edacd1e4b082aad9ba8595

tl;dr Override veto 97-1, blame Obama when they have buyer's remorse for failing to communicate the consequences of this after ragging onto him about how much he tried to prevent this from getting passed back in April.

i don't even know anymore

[NotMiki]

The Senate passed a version, thinking the House wouldn't take it up until after the election.  Because apparently they've never heard of the House, or something.  Anyway, the House did take it up, because they are crazy, and so that put the Senate in the position of doing the obvious right thing, or doing something that looks good to the public but is obviously wrong.  Hmmmmmmmm.

But yeah, did not expect the GOP to start attacking the White House for failing to adequately communicate the dangers of legislation that it had vetoed.  This is an amazing innovation in craven politics.  This is digging a hole so you can set the bar beneath ground level.  How could we legislators be expected to comprehend the exceptionally straightforward International Law 101 consequences of our bills?

Hats off to Harry Reid and LITERALLY NO OTHER DEMOCRATIC SENATOR for putting on his big boy pants and voting against the override.

tl;dr Thanks Obama

[Luther Lansfeld]

i had to check the topic title to see if i clicked on idiot of the day or the politics topic, because wow holy shit

[dunie]

I get and don't get the parallel to German Nazism. One, the one hand you have a so-called Western country that's supposedly progressive and forward-thinking, yet a hateful anti-humanist leader rose to power. On the other hand, he wasn't elected but given chancellorship after a capitulating (and old) presi Hindenburg who had himself perpetuated hateful antisemitic sentiments. And this all occurred in some vague idea of rationalism. I just don't see that fitting well, at all really, with the current situation in the US except for the general first part. Then you had the radio which was a super big thing to new audiences, but here generations accustomed to positive or negative ideologies on TV. I mean, there's several articles out there that put out some solid BEWARE OF HITLER x2 narratives, but the world has already had many more hateful rulers that we could also invoke. I feel like we have more of a ridiculous spaghetti western unraveling here, without any love of rules or investment in logic.

[Pyro]

Peiple draw paralells between Hitler and Trump for a few reasons:

The narcissistic self aggrandizing lying. Trump lies constantly and in ways that make him look good. He does this to such a degree that it breaks many of the 'norms' of a candidate.... You don't lie brazenly when there is evidence of the contrary and if you do it should hurt you. This is a big deal because it allows someone in power to create their own alternate versions of events, which gives freedom to do things that would be too scandalous or beyond the pale for a normal offfice holder.

Trump plays to irrational fears of a minority and demonizes them to try and take power. Seriously he opened his campaign with the idea that mexicans were rapists and murderers and leeches that had to be kicked the hell out of the country. This encourages violence and dehumanization against a group of human beings for the circumstances of their birth. Let me be very clear that this is some seriously dark shit.  This comes from the fever swamps of the internet (breitbart Drudge Stormfront) where there be dragons. Trump is normalizing actual racist supremacists. He made the head of Breitbart his campaign lead. He had a group of people on his convention stage who lost family members to 'illegal immigrants' (Mexicans). Can you stop and imagine if he had a bunch of white people who lost family members to black people (btw his campaign managers site actually does that kind of shit)? The message is clear 'kick these people out or kill them'. This is dark shit and that gets lost amidst a lot of the horse race.

Trump has seriously honest to god incited violence. Talking about roughing up protestors and talk of Hillary being assasinated. This violates norms that should get someone shumned out of politics. This is dark and scary shit.

Trump is vindictive and spiteful. witness his (wholly unnecessary) feuds with everyone from Rosie Odonnel to the Khans. Or hell even a fire marshal who won't let him fill up a venue past capacity.Give him the spying, law enforcement, pardoning, and even assasination power of the presidency and picture how he could 'counterpunch' critics.

Trump wants to curtail the media from saying things he doesn't like. Witness his talk of how much he hates the media and wants to 'open up' libel laws.

Trump praises brutal foreign dictators for their... Brutality. He calls it 'strength'. He talked admiringly about how Putin and even KIM JONG UN took control of their countries. Or about how Saddam 'was so good at killing terrorists' THIS IS A MAJOR GOD DAMN RED FLAG.

So yeah Trump is scary. Hang out at the right wing fever swamps to get a feel for why.

[dunie]

That all falls in the first generalism to me, which I would never say isn't a problem or parallel. Don't get me wrong. But I also don't see those "strategies" as unique to Hitler. Hillary Clinton would never elect Trump for anything and our party system is not alike. I think I would get even more nervous once the elections are over, all prayers to him losing, but a new party pops up with those ideals and gains super steam while republicans are scurrying around. I am trying to remain hopeful, and americans yelling appeals to hitler and the holocaust is sort of too.... much, for lack of better word. It would also be interesting to see the legislative kickback to a party founded very announcedly (fake word, bedtime) on hate crimes. I defer to jim

[metroid composite]

and americans yelling appeals to hitler and the holocaust is sort of too.... much, for lack of better word.

To be fair, I'm not really comfortable comparing him to hitler myself.  I don't feel comfortable drawing those kinds of parallels.  I was mostly comparing the "Bernie or Bust" crowd to the KPD.

That said, if a 90 year old Jew who was nearly killed in the holocaust were to make the comparison to hitler, then I can't really make the "you're just a dumb 20-year-old american who doesn't understand what it was like in 1939" complaint.  Speaking of which...enter Anne Frank's stepsister:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/anne-frank-donald-trump-adolf-hitler/

[dunie]

Yeah, and she's not the only survivor to say so; to clarify, I wouldn't disqualify anyone's comparison. That's not my intention with my posts. Pyro's elaboration on similar character traits is spot on. I understand the need to politically vilify him by association. I question the parallels that enabled rise & success. So I get and don't get the parallels to German Nazism.

[Cmdr_King]

Also he kept a copy of Mein Kampf next to his bedstand for years.  He's taken some pains to court Neo Nazis.  Comparisons to Hitler specifically rather than the lesser demagogues (insofar as any of them are fascists rather than military dictators or the like) since is something he's cultivated.

[OblivionKnight]

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb1612292#t=article


Ahahahahahahahaha.

Oh come on Trump, just fucking make something up.  You've been doing it for how the fuck long already?  Clearly, just like your secret anti-ISIL plan, your healthcare plan DOES NOT FUCKING EXIST.

Christ, any goddamn healthcare professional that still supports Trump after he blatantly ignores one of the most important issues of the entire field and allied professions should be stripped of their license and then subjected to a swarm of the largest dildos in existence in every orifice on their body. 

And yet, I know people who still support him.  In the medical field.  What the fuck. 


I've never been into politics, but this year...ugh.   

[Grefter]

Christ, any goddamn healthcare professional that still supports Trump after he blatantly ignores one of the most important issues of the entire field and allied professions should be stripped ... and then subjected to a swarm of the largest dildos in existence in every orifice on their body. 

Look man I can respect your kinks and our disagreements on politics, but I don't think your platform is going to win most of the population over to supporting Trump.  Just because you like it doesn't mean it works for everyone.

[OblivionKnight]

In all my years of practice, there is nothing I've found that a swarm of dildos couldn't fix.

[Grefter]

Yeah but it takes years of practice to handle as much as you do.

[NotMiki]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-taxes-50-percent-Americans-dont-pay

Remains to be seen what the fallout from Trump's tax return will be, but here's the best place for the Dems to start.

[superaielman]

I'm all for trashing Trump as an immoral failure and hammering him for not releasing the taxes, but I more consider it a commentary on the system rather than Trump that he paid as little taxes as possible. That just seems like human nature.

[Lady Door]

Minimizing your tax burden is smart.

Minimizing your tax burden by carrying massive business losses while running on a platform of business success, gloating that smart people don't pay taxes, that we need to get rid of freeloaders (not just the welfare class, he's literally discussing the arrangements we have with foreign governments and their not paying), and saying that he's going to "fix the system" without any nod to the loopholes he's used to escape paying any tax... not so smart.

But then, that's why he hasn't released anything, isn't it?

I think it's especially damning that he's come out about this leak by saying the leak was illegal, not that the forms themselves were in any way erroneous.

[NotMiki]

The critical question that the returns don't answer is: how did he amass the $915m in losses?  If he did it entirely by losing money he had personally invested, or by taking depreciation on assets he had bought, that's above board.  Raise your hand if you believe that was what happened.  Ok everyone who raised their hands, I've got a great real estate proposition for you - a can't-miss investment located between Manhattan and Brooklyn that is guaranteed to make you rich!  Anyway.  There is a very good chance that the tax structuring he did to amass those losses is not legitimate.

[Hunter Sopko]

A second, more critical-er question is for the people who think it qualifies him to fix the tax code.

Do you really think, given the kind of person he's shown himself to be, he'll in any way fix the tax code in a way that won't also massively benefit himself? This is assuming he even does anything resembling tax reform.