Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one

[Tide]

Well see you lot in 4 years.

Grefbro channeling my inner thoughts. Are you my twin?!

[Cotigo]

Fenrir's got a good point, though: there is a certain strain of young(ish) white male Trump supporter that you'll see in various other places of the internet: alt-right, antisocial types who would typically describe themselves by such labels as "anti-SJW" and spout conspiracy theories. However, the DL has always seemed to specifically reject that type, even moreso than our general left-wing bias would suggest (our more right-wing posters don't fit that description at all, e.g. Hal, Dune, ID).

Have I ever mentioned how grateful I am for that? Keep on keeping on, DL.

you know i have to agree with this

despite all the shit i talk about you guys I never get unreasonably angry at y'all's opinions {edit: lol, I realized it as soon as I posted it)

all things said and done, members of the DL have a pretty good track record for basing their opinions on the facts as they understand them.

anyway I am just listening to this on repeat right now b/c i need a voice not my own echoing that back at me while I play minecraft for the first time in five years and pretend that things don't exist.

[Fenrir]

 

[superaielman]

In fairness, while Republicans haven't been attacking Bernie, Hillary's team has been going at him for the last 1.5 months pretty hard.

And there's a reason that polls consistently show Bernie outperforming Hillary against Republicans: Hillary's popularity is pretty bad overall and it seems like a she has a high percentage of voters that don't feel heavily inspired by her. I honestly think that she would have trouble against Trump since he can capitalize on all her weaknesses (self funding vs constant appearance of corruption, a Republican who can still manage to attack her from the LEFT on Iraq/Syria/Libya, insurgent candidate in a broken political system vs. "inevitable" dynasty candidate, unpredictable debater versus someone is a bit poor at speaking off the cuff). I fear that the people Hillary will motivate to vote will be the opposition (because I don't think she'll have a lot of luck with young or very progressive voters on the whole). She's already drifting to the right on issues as well (Oil extraction on public lands in the last 2 days for example).

I feel like Hillary could be a prime example for the old motto about Democrats snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (I really hope that I would be wrong, but there's so much ammo to use against her). I really, really, really hope that the FBI investigations are just witchhunts; I think the email one is, but there's definitely some blurred lines in the Clinton Foundation investigation that could turn into something real.

Yeah about that...

Hillary's weaknesses both personally and politically is well known at this point; not going to repeat it myself. I am sickened that Trump won the White House, but democratic leadership should be absolutely held accountable for this shitshow.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Haha, okay guys you got me! You can stop trolling now.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I know the temptation is there to play the blame game, but I'm not really sure what magical Dem candidate would have done significantly better. Trump very clearly tapped into something; preliminary numbers look like turnout rose considerably from 2012 (had turnout gone the other direction, I'd be much more on board with hating on the Democratic party right now). It's not hard to imagine that the same populist sentiments would have felled most other establishment candidates. (And if you cross-check the Dem primary results with the general election results, there's literally no way Sanders could have won, even if he miraculously managed to convince the general electorate that socialism wasn't a dirty word.) Maybe some hypothetical candidate with all of Clinton's strengths but none of her weaknesses could have closed the gaps and won, but that scans more like wishful thinking to me at the moment.

I do blame the Clinton campaign / the media for not relentlessly focusing on the issues and forcing Trump to be more substantive about his policies, but I'm not sure how much to blame each. It's very embarrassing that this wasn't more of a focus; instead we lurched from Clinton scandal to Trump scandal ad nauseum. I don't think it's a surprise that Clinton did best polling-wise after the debates which were one of the few times anything substantial policy-wise was covered by the media, at least from this outsider's perspective.

[Lord Ephraim]

Despite most of our state being Red, there were a lot of Bernie supporters.  A decent lot of them jumped to Trump when he was knocked out of the nomination.

In swing states where Trump won by grabbing votes from rural counties,  I think Bernie could have got quite a few of those votes over Clinton especially among working white voters.  210,000 votes is what separated Trump/Clinton in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wyoming.  Would Bernie get enough of those votes to swing those states blue? Maybe, but then again it would mean it come down to Florida and fuck Florida.

[Shale]

I know the temptation is there to play the blame game, but I'm not really sure what magical Dem candidate would have done significantly better. Trump very clearly tapped into something; preliminary numbers look like turnout rose considerably from 2012 (had turnout gone the other direction, I'd be much more on board with hating on the Democratic party right now).

Turnout ended up being down some 12 million from 2012, and the lowest overall for a presidential election since 2000. So commence the hating.

(That said, I suspect that in a battle between two smash-the-system outsiders, America would still have gone for the racist one over the self-declared socialist.)

[dunie]

They have the House, they have the Senate, so they have Congress.  They don't have 2/3rd majority for constitutional amendments, but now they have Trump who can shoot out executive orders. I hope the rift between Republican constituencies does not mend.

Make sure to track your state legislation.

Make sure to take as much care of yourself as possible.

Don't leave the playground to the bully - relocation is always a momentary salve, unless you're actually trying to become Canadian. Friends in other countries like Germany are proud to be there, but Germany's political future is uncertain too. Vienna's. Etc.

Figuring out a way to keep Planned Parenthood afloat. It is a necessary fixture, and no, not for its 3% budget for abortion care.

Re: Shale's comment
yes, turnout was also particularly horrendous for Georgia

[Captain K]

Make sure to take as much care of yourself as possible.

This.  It's about to get very dangerous for anyone that is "different".  Looking at what happened in the UK after Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/07/hate-surged-after-eu-referendum-police-figures-show

and this will probably be worse.  The bigots are empowered now.  I have a transgender grandchild, and I'm very worried for her.

[Lady Door]

Because I take comfort in other people's words, here are some select quotes - some of which I have shared on social media, some of which I haven't - that sum up my feelings, especially with regards to the discomfort I feel at the people who are like "lol, whatever, they both sucked":

A lot of my friends are scared of Trump’s America, in other words, and they should be. As Maya Angelou once said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Donald Trump has shown us over and over again who he is; the worst of his supporters — the ones who will now feel like they have free rein to indulge their various bigotries — have shown us who they are, too. And while not every Trump voter is among the worst of people, they share the responsibility of having made anyone who isn’t straight, and white, and male, and well-off, less secure, less safe, and more frightened. That’s what they bought for us when they pulled the lever for Trump.

source: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/11/09/early-morning-thoughts-on-the-day-after/

What I learned on #ElectionNight: Being a racist, bigoted, prejudice, lying sexual predator is still more acceptable than being a woman.

source: https://twitter.com/Allen_Clifton/status/796249121158004736

Strange that the best case scenario at this point is that Trump has been lying about his views and plans the entire time.

source: https://twitter.com/levie/status/796265923397107712

Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.

Britain - "Brexit is the stupidest, most self-destructive act a country could undertake!"
America - "Hold my beer."

[Niu]

So, not only Trump wins, Prop 61 didn't pass in CA because people here think it is still okay to let the Pharmaceutical company doing whatever they want with drug prices.

While Prop 59 passed, it means nothing when GOP controls both houses of Congress...

I so want to go back to Taiwan now...

[Shale]

I don't blame you. My boss (a gay immigrant journalist, so the Trumpites will just love him) is probably moving back to England when practicable, and given the state of England that's saying something.

[Niu]

To think Britian was the stupidest country a while ago... and we are now topping them by a huge margin.

Speaking of which, are the British regretting their votes yet?

[Sierra]

There's a lot to be said right now, but I've mostly said it in private conversations elsewhere.

I just can't help but draw one specific parallel, though: out of a field of unpalatable candidates, we chose the worst exemplar of humanity among the lot.

We are Vault 11.

[Cmdr_King]

Wrote this on my (not officially but may as well be) brother-in-law's facebook post.  He lead off with "I am ashamed of my country."  It's the only response I can muster that's not angry swearing or telling people off for murdering PoC or LGBT (especially T, I... I really hope every trans person in the country had someone with them last night because otherwise they may already be a body count).

"I was pretty ashamed of my neighbors, countrymen, and indeed family when the polls came back saying that the half of Republicans who didn't vote for Trump in the primary let party loyalty cloud their better judgement. That even more people said to themselves "this is fine" and joined in after that is galling.

Mostly though I'm angry at one man. There is a moment you can point to where the Republican party stopped being a conservative opposition to the rising Democrat coalition and started being the outlet of fear-mongering and obstruction that bred the Trump movement. A moment where the Republican party stopped trying to bring ideas to the table and work to create laws that served the entire nation. And yes, a man who created a 25 year long witch hunt against a women who, while flawed and corrupted, was still an able and effective administrator who could have been swayed through political pressures to try and steer the ship in a better direction.

Fuck YOU, Newt Gingrich. Even more than the incompetent imbecile we just named President Elect, I hope you don't see the fruits of the victory you've swindled from the American People."

[SnowFire]

To think Britian was the stupidest country a while ago... and we are now topping them by a huge margin.

Speaking of which, are the British regretting their votes yet?

No.  This is a popular Remain meme that all the pro-Brexit voters all went a-twitter at the collapsing pound & stock market and said "Oh woe, what have I done?" That might have been true for like 3 people but that's it.

It's possible some will change their minds in 2 years after the fallout, then lie and claimed they saw it all coming, or voted Remain, or it was the fault of the politicians for bollocksing it up.  But no, they haven't changed their minds yet.

Meanwhile if I was a Remainer in the UK I would be going just as crazy as Brexiteers were before.  It used to be both parties were officially pro-Remain.  Now the Tories have gone pro-Brexit, and Labour is both insane and half-heartedly no-position on Brexit.  Who is there even to vote for?

[Fenrir]

Yeah Brexiters will tell you that any economic issue like the rise of prices is the cause of greedy corporations using Brexit as an excuse

We are mainly dealing with mean dumb spiteful people that will never learn, sorry (oh shit we are not supposed to look down on them)

[Captain K]

[Grefter]

No thx.

[DragonKnight Zero]

There's a part of me that wonders how much sheep people who hated the candidate but still voted Republican impacted the outcome.  Then I remember that I'm happier focusing my energy on things I have control over.

[Cmdr_King]

Given the margins, I feel safe saying "enough that they the election would have gone the other way if they stayed the fuck home".

(it's something like 15-20% from what I remember, but that was just "seen in passing scrolling twitter", not something I looked up.)

[Grefter]

http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/09/kkk-of-north-carolina-announces-donald-trump-victory-parade

Remember this.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/fox6now.com/2016/11/09/wisconsin-election-turnout-near-20-year-low/amp/

Remember this.

[dunie]

UGH!

I'm pasting my rant in chat today, because I don't ever want to think about saying it again.
Warning, Trump supporter rant:
[7:13am] <dunsters>
So, it is too much in my attention a rising string of violence, emboldened or otherwise, that invoke Trump's name.
1. Trump supports cannot wash themselves clean of this association, and should not allow for these acts of their neighbors, friends, citizens, violence stand uncontested.
2. If Trump supporters dearly disagree with charges of racism, sexism, xenophobia and white nationalism in their group, they need to commit with allying themselves across party lines to achieve justice.
Write letters to Congress saying that you don't, in fact, want a wall; that you want to de-escalate violence of LGBTQ, that you don't want to keep gunning for Planned Parenthood, that you don't want to break up Muslim families by ignoring a worldwide crisis.
If you are SO "Trump doesn't represent this, we don't represent this," prove it.
Just like folk today have been trying to disempower stereotypes that they are hateful white cis males, that they are violent black people, that they are thrify asian folk, that they are salacious gay folk, that they are bra burning women.

re: Cid pointing to Grefter's links above
<dunsters>
This shit should be met with equal dissent by Trump supporters. A lot of me is thinking their laziness or distinterest in acting is probably the conclusion here, which itself enables and they cannot at all remove any responsibility of that. So be okay with being hated then.

[Grefter]

http://billypenn.com/2016/11/11/n-er-lynching-group-text-shocks-penn-freshmen/

Remember this

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a50598/russian-talked-to-trump-campaign/

Remember this

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/11/peter-thiel-joins-donald-trump-transition-team

Remember this