Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one

[Cotigo]

 I remember in middle school, it was during the Bush/Gore election, we had just learned about the great depression. Someone in my class asked, "what's stopping something like that from ever happening again?" My social studies teacher, whose name I have forgotten, responded: "Well, we learned from our mistakes. We have protections in place to make sure it doesn't happen again."

Then Bush V. Gore came down to several significant figures worth of votes and we had something historically unprecedented to discuss in history class. I guess that's why this one teacher stands out in particular*.  That, and how completely wrong she was. Graduating college and entering the workforce around 2009 was fun.

We never learned our lessons. Our grandparents did, the hard way, and we all got complacent. We had been brought up with Nazis as these shorthand-for-evil baddies that Indiana Jones punched because they were bad and forgot the sheer terror the Nazis/Alt-Right/White Supremacist movements wrecked upon the world. Prince Charles dressed as a goddamn nazi for a joke. We even have a Godwin'd term for how gauchely we throw the around term Nazi around, like it's some weak defeated relic of the past. I spent an embarrassingly large amount of my early 20s with "edgy" humor (read: tons of holocaust jokes because WHO COULD ACTUALLY BE A NAZI AM I RIGHT?). I was /pol/'s goddamn target audience for part of my life. And now a literal Nazi sits in on the meetings where they tell the soldiers what to do. They're doing literal Nazi moves by publishing a report of all the supposed crimes committed by the scapegoat du jour, and blatantly attempting to persecute people based on their religion.

The ACLU are goddamn heroes. I hope this can stay civil and that the battles will be fought by lawyers, but I think I may have a moral obligation to go punch a Nazi if it comes to that.

*EDIT: Fun story, the only other thing I remember about that class is that she made us write new lyrics to Billy Joel's We Didn't Start the Fire with recent events and I got in trouble for making a joke about Columbine. Ah, youth.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Rather topical in another spectrum of the fascist apparatus building movement: https://twitter.com/jess4_rk/status/825358392575266816

Also worth noting Trump has filed for reelection almost instantly after taking the president seat, which also has consequences on dealing with his actions in the legal veneer. History spins its wheels and has a keen sense of irony.

[dunie]

shoutout to ACLU receiving 24mil, which is apparently 6x their annual donations

shoutout to the marchers/protesters/people doing things re:tide, is this in response to Trump or the shooting in Canada? either way, don't knock yourself. folk are well aware that just cos' someone aint there don't mean they ain't aware.

fight the fuckery, watch out for gerrymandering and new voter laws lest we want another lopside electoral college superplay.

[superaielman]

All the electoral college fuckery in the world doesn't matter if Clinton doesn't completely blow off key midwest states in the election. of all the things to be angry about in the past few months, that is not one of them.

[Cmdr_King]

Flipside, all the campaigning in the world won't keep Wisconsin from flipping if a couple hundred thousand of your base's votes can't pass the voter ID laws.

[superaielman]

You can assign blame to Comey or voter ID laws or third party voters or whatever else, but pretending that it was anything but Hillary's own weaknesses as a campaigner and candidate that ultimately cost her the election is missing the point.

[Dark Holy Elf]

There were many factors at play in the election result, rather than just one, and pretending otherwise is foolish. Clinton made some mistakes for sure (though your "I told you so" attitude isn't impressing anyone; I didn't see you saying she should have been campaigning more in those states before the election results came in) but that doesn't mean we can't take issue with those other factors.

[superaielman]

There are lots of factors, but the candidate is the one who bears the brunt of the blame.  She got hammered badly on the Clinton legacy (NAFTA in particular and to a lesser extent the 94 crime bill, a really bad piece of legislation) by both the left and right. And no, I didn't think even a complacent democratic party could fuck this up. I was wrong and I wish I wasn't.

I get that the electoral college is frustrating, but the system wasn't a surprise on either side. Unless there is solid proof that Russia actually tampered with votes, the results are valid.  I hate the implication otherwise (Because it undermines our political process) and because it avoids addressing the pretty serious issues within the democratic party. They need to be better than they have been; I don't have much faith in them as an opposition party and feel pretty justified in that reaction.

[Cotigo]

(though your "I told you so" attitude isn't impressing anyone

Yeah that. Take your own advice, Super. Right now is not the fucking time.

[SnowFire]

All the electoral college fuckery in the world doesn't matter if Clinton doesn't completely blow off key midwest states in the election. of all the things to be angry about in the past few months, that is not one of them.

If anything, the argument might be that Clinton spent TOO MUCH time in the likes of Iowa & Ohio, where she lost far more badly than expected.  As for Wisconsin and Michigan...  well...  maybe, but you can't say Clinton didn't campaign in Pennsylvania.  She spent a crapton of time & resources there, and still lost.  IOW, even if Wisconsin & Michigan had been flipped - perhaps Obama goes to campaign in Wisconsin more and North Carolina less - Clinton *still loses* unless she can get Pennsylvania too.

Basically if there's anything this election taught us, it's that campaign infrastructure and advertising dollars are even weaker than people thought.  Clinton had a gigantic infrastructure and money lead and it didn't matter.  I've said before that money only moves the needle a tiny bit - mostly to far-left types who think that MONEY BUYS EVERYTHING - but it seems said tiny bit is even tinier.  So...  it didn't matter that much *where* Clinton campaigned.  It was the message + Comey that fell apart.  Because apparently OH MY GOD TRUMP IS EVIL AND INCOMPETENT AND SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED FOR ANYTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOGCATCHER apparently isn't convincing enough even when it's 10000% true.

[Grefter]

(though your "I told you so" attitude isn't impressing anyone

Yeah that. Take your own advice, Super. Right now is not the fucking time.

Here, hope this helps.

But seriously it isn't Hilary Clinton's fucking fault that someone can run a campaign on racist hard right politics, lose the preferential vote by a couple of million votes, still end up winning because of the electoral college skews the fuck out of the representation part of your representative democratic republic and then makes good on racist and fascist campaign promises.

[dunie]

Oh dear, my post obviously touched a nerve.

I'll say this: reading my short comment about the electoral college in the same vein as a lamentation of Clinton and complete blame on a system means you've taken a piece and ran a mile.

 I don't think I need to keep restating how important it is to vote locally, vote in the primary, and watch how state laws affect these two things? or that the electoral college has been fuckery for decades regardless of some progressive ideal candidate winning?

That's my last on that given my numerous posts in poli threads, etc. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that we are in extra stressful times and perhaps you've misaligned my one comment with recent liberal critiques of the EC that happen every presidency.

btw to lighten things: i was hashtag feel the bern sad face emoji when my last option was clinton (sure that's in here when I shat on her debates) edit edit edit figuring out what to make of bannon and nsc. like, if trump is doing things w/o precedent, imma just call to see what career dems understand resistance can be then go from there

[Tide]

shoutout to the marchers/protesters/people doing things re:tide, is this in response to Trump or the shooting in Canada? either way, don't knock yourself. folk are well aware that just cos' someone aint there don't mean they ain't aware.

I meant in general. Like you can go see a picture or video of people lining up donating blood and some fucker will post some comment in their to shit on those people trying to help those in need. You didn't see it as much before, but I guess Trump just brings out the worst in everyone. When did it become a crime to stop awful things or to fight awful things from happening? 

[Shale]

On the scale from George Washington to Emperor Nero, last night just blew past Nixon's second term. The Republican caucus still DGAF. Fuck this is terrifying.

[Tide]

I'm almost afraid to ask - what happened last night? I saw some stuff regarding how the acting AG was terminated and replaced with someone that would validate Trump's claim, which is pretty terrifying in and of itself based on all that has been happening behind the scenes.

[Shale]

That's it in a nutshell. The acting AG, Sally Lynch -- who was originally appointed to DOJ George W. Bush, declared that she would not defend the immigration order because she believed it to be unlawful. Trump fired her in a memo that reads like it was put together by an especially petulant seventh-grader. The last time a president fired an attorney general for disagreeing with him on the law was Nixon in his last-ditch bid to stop the Watergate investigation, known as the "Saturday Night Massacre."

Bonus points: here's Jeff Sessions, Trump's AG nominee and one of his biggest cheerleaders, pressing Yates at her confirmation hearing on whether she would stand up to the president if he ordered her to do something illegal.

[Tide]

So what are the chances of a constitutional crisis occurring? Seems more and more to me that the law isn't really doing much to stop this lunacy. As I mentioned in chat to Jim, based on their inaction, I am doubting that any chance of a peaceful resolution (such as impeachment) will be happening.

[Shale]

It's a constitutional crisis right now. If you mean an incident that historians will be able to point at and say "that's where the U.S. stopped being a constitutional republic," (assuming Trump & co. win the ensuing confrontation) I'd say it's all but certain if Trump and Bannon are still in power a month from now.

(Edit: I expect them to openly refuse to follow court rulings telling them "stop this, it's illegal" by that point. Something else might happen sooner.)

[Cotigo]

Sup nerds. You called your congressfolk yet today?

I'm basically going to be bugging the shit out of mine about Steve Bannon because THERE IS A NAZI SITTING IN ON NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL MEETINGS OVER THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF.

I wrote out what I wanted to say beforehand*, and frankly it just made the whole process easier for me. Less stuttering, less terrified emotional fear babble, and as a bonus I refrained from referring to Bannon as a doughy Goebbels fanboy even once!

If Steve Bannon terrifies you too and you want a script to use, by all means, feel free to use this however you see fit.

"Hello, my name is X from Y, and my zip code is 00000. I was calling to ask if Senator/Representative Z has released an official position on President Trump's decision to have his chief strategist and of former Breitbart News editor Steve Bannon to sit in on National Security Council meetings instead of the director of the joint chiefs of staff."

(Upon being asked for my opinion so it could be documented): "Steve Bannon terrifies me, and his appointment to the NSC should terrify all of us. The man is a dangerous white supremacist who must not be allowed to dictate the future actions of the Armed Services. I believe we have not only a political obligation, but a moral obligation to do everything possible to prevent this appointment, and would appreciate if Senator/Representative Z would take this into account. Thank you for your time, have a good day."

This isn't a partisan issue. I don't give a shit what you think about Trump, and I don't give a shit about what you think about Hillary Clinton. This isn't about either of them. This isn't about the election. This is a fucking NAZI sitting in on the meetings that decide what the THE UNITED GODDAMN STATES MILITARY is going to do. And he was given this power QUIETLY while Trump kept us occupied with his dumbass poorly planned executive order.

Steve Bannon is an actual existential threat. If something isn't done, US Citizens WILL die.

I haven't really slept in two days. That is all.

[Tide]

Sup nerds. You called your congressfolk yet today?

I'm basically going to be bugging the shit out of mine about Steve Bannon because THERE IS A NAZI SITTING IN ON NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL MEETINGS OVER THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF.

I wrote out what I wanted to say beforehand*, and frankly it just made the whole process easier for me. Less stuttering, less terrified emotional fear babble, and as a bonus I refrained from referring to Bannon as a doughy Goebbels fanboy even once!

If Steve Bannon terrifies you too and you want a script to use, by all means, feel free to use this however you see fit.

"Hello, my name is X from Y, and my zip code is 00000. I was calling to ask if Senator/Representative Z has released an official position on President Trump's decision to have his chief strategist and of former Breitbart News editor Steve Bannon to sit in on National Security Council meetings instead of the director of the joint chiefs of staff."

(Upon being asked for my opinion so it could be documented): "Steve Bannon terrifies me, and his appointment to the NSC should terrify all of us. The man is a dangerous white supremacist who must not be allowed to dictate the future actions of the Armed Services. I believe we have not only a political obligation, but a moral obligation to do everything possible to prevent this appointment, and would appreciate if Senator/Representative Z would take this into account. Thank you for your time, have a good day."

This isn't a partisan issue. I don't give a shit what you think about Trump, and I don't give a shit about what you think about Hillary Clinton. This isn't about either of them. This isn't about the election. This is a fucking NAZI sitting in on the meetings that decide what the THE UNITED GODDAMN STATES MILITARY is going to do. And he was given this power QUIETLY while Trump kept us occupied with his dumbass poorly planned executive order.

Steve Bannon is an actual existential threat. If something isn't done, US Citizens WILL die.

I haven't really slept in two days. That is all.

I would but unfortunately I don't live in the states . Totally agree on the bottom part - this isn't about Trump/Hilary/the election. I'm in the same boat in that I haven't slept well in the past two days either.

PS: I like how you managed to also avoid mentioning wanting to kick Bannon in the nuts.

[Shale]

Re: my "one month" prediction, In my defense I thought they'd go through the whole appeal process and only move on to civil war when the final ruling came down against them.

[Cotigo]

PS: I like how you managed to also avoid mentioning wanting to kick Bannon in the nuts.

For those keeping score at home, we have reached the point of crisis where *Zenny* is actively trying to choose his words wisely.

So that's kinda where we're at as a nation right now

[Laggy]

we have reached the point of crisis where *Zenny* is actively trying to choose his words wisely

can confirm, actually asked me to affirm that he should not post something completely stupid

The political climate is fucking terrifying right now. I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been addressed. A call to action like what Zenny is suggesting is absolutely the best and most productive outlet you can do to try to make a difference, especially if you live in an area with GOP congressmen.

Without pressure from the constituents in power (i.e. the Republican party which controls all branches of government at the moment) that is the avenue needed to try to force any sort of change.

[superaielman]

PS: I like how you managed to also avoid mentioning wanting to kick Bannon in the nuts.

For those keeping score at home, we have reached the point of crisis where *Zenny* is actively trying to choose his words wisely.

So that's kinda where we're at as a nation right now

Because this threat to liberty and freedom is worth taking seriously; I'm with you 100% on this. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3dPlDKXUAAkvBf.jpg:large The pressure the public is putting on is impacting congresscritters already; and this is less than two weeks in. E: I come of as a little snide but I've been ranting about the dangers of Trump sfor the past year and a half and everyone in the media and his political opponents didn't take it seriously. There's so much blame to go around that at this point it almost doesn't matter, what matters is getting him and his fascist buddies dealt with.

[Laggy]

Dude Super you come off as snide because:

1) You were like "SITTING OUT OF THIS ELECTION THE ONLY THING TO GET ME TO VOTE IS IF TRUMP WINS THE PRIMARY I HATE EVERYONE" (you implicitly said you would ONLY vote in Virginia if Trump won the primary, which he did, and then you backpedaled on this later)
2) When Trump DID win the primary you went "there's no fucking way he's going to win he's going to lose in a colossal landslide"
3) When Trump won the election you went "oh man only Hillary could have fucked up this hard".

It's in your post history, dude. You can look up them up in the old politics thread, I ain't paraphrasing what you said much.

I don't want to turn this into pointing fingers but you need to own up to what you said before and your own mistaken perceptions just like everyone else. The ha ha only that Clinton woman could sink us is downright eyeroll-worthy when you were just as convinced as anyone else in the leadup that she was going to win.