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Author Topic: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one  (Read 66833 times)

The Duck

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #650 on: February 16, 2017, 11:38:40 PM »
I'm reckoning with the fact that a significant proportion of the country watched that press conference and cheered because he took on the media and told it like it is.

Fenrir

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #651 on: February 18, 2017, 06:32:28 AM »

The Duck

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #652 on: February 18, 2017, 12:28:03 PM »
I do wonder if there's a point where Trump's approval ratings slip to the point where the GOP has to jettison him. I think it's remarkable that they'll essentially abide by anything to get tax cuts for the rich and an ACA repeal. If everyone hates him by the midterms, it is possible that the House is taken back even with gerrymandering. Anything meaningful that gets blocked requires GOP congressmen and they're falling right in line.

https://medium.com/@SenatorJohnMcCain/dont-count-america-out-b009355ab990#.bn6nzfuw8

uh huh. I have to wonder about his incentives because he has his senate seat locked down and yet still won't defy Trump in any meaningful way. McCain's rep as a maverick has never been particularly meaningful in his votes. The dude made fun of his military service. Where's the fucking line?


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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #653 on: February 18, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »
I don't think that there's any floor of approval low enough to deter their tacit support. Only public disclosure of some truly unprecedented treachery (I.E., undeniable proof of actual collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia which irresistibly leads to overwhelming public demand for prosecution) will force their hand in actually denouncing and opposing him, and even then only from necessity. But every Republican congressman in a position to actually pursue any meaningful investigation into the administration has steadfastly refused to do so--instead, they are now voicing more significant concern over the people leaking information about the Trump administration's transgressions. The implication here for our new standard of governance is chilling: it isn't what you did wrong that matters, but what you got caught doing wrong. The solution to Trump's blatant scumminess and the polling gap that it fosters is therefore not to disavow and prosecute Trump and his cronies for their infractions, but to minimize public knowledge of his crimes.

Public disapproval of Trump's general shittiness might move individual congressman in the short term on specific issues, but it will not lead to any sea change in the party's behavior. They need him more than he needs them. In spite of Hillary's flaws as a candidate, do we actually think that Pence could have won on his own? Mike Pence is a charisma-free zone. It was Trump's sociopathic grandstanding that got them the White House back, not the appeal of the traditional Republican platform. But thanks to him, they are free to focus on what really matters to them: cutting taxes for the rich, at the expense of everyone else's benefits and privileges. He is wonderful cover for this. It's easier for the public to focus on the latest dumb thing Trump said or did than on the dry, legislative reality of shredding the social safety net and demolishing the environment for the short-term gain of a wealthy few. They won't forsake this deal without incontrovertibly damning proof against Trump, and they will fight to keep any such facts out of the public eye.

Because there is one thing at least that both Trump and the GOP can absolutely agree that they want to get out of this administration: they want to guarantee that no one can get them out of power again. There's zero chance that Trump will accept a lost election in 2020 and peacefully step down, but more to the point, we should absolutely expect every coordinated effort to prevent this eventuality from even being possible. Voter suppression laws will be a reality on every administrative level; this has been a trend with Republican-controlled state legislatures for the past several years anyway, and with Sessions as AG we should only expect this trend to accelerate. Polling failures will not move the Republican party, because their approach is increasingly to lean hard upon their base and simply disenfranchise anyone who might vote against them. When people write in the future about the death of democracy in America, they will conclude that it could not have happened without the Republican party's Faustian bargain.

And yes, nice speech there, McCain, I agree with everything you said, it's exactly the kind of thing that you should be saying in the context of American politics, to your own party. The maverick rep he's tried to cultivate has never in reality had any teeth. There is no line that Trump can cross to make McCain do more than bleat occasionally in mild protest. He's too much a party man to actually do anything other than go with the flow. So he'll complain publicly once in a while to maintain the reputation of a principled conservative, but in practice we should expect him to do nothing whatsoever to hold Trump accountable for his own actions, nor to pressure his party into taking any meaningful stand against the administration's excesses. Because Rowling was right: it's harder to stand up to your friends than it is to your enemies. And McCain hasn't got it in him.

NotMiki

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #654 on: February 18, 2017, 10:26:50 PM »
McCain voted for Betsy DeVos.  I don't think you need to say more than that.
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Cotigo

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #655 on: February 19, 2017, 07:29:31 PM »
Only two things demand that much blind loyalty. Donald Trump, and the Republican Party. Turns out getting people to do whatever despite their personal beliefs while dangling a power carrot in front of them is a pretty good method of clawing up power for yourself.

superaielman

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #656 on: February 20, 2017, 01:01:38 PM »
I'm rather enjoying watching Milo get completely destroyed this morning. Someone named Reagan Battlion (No, seriously) started up a much deserved outrage storm over his comments on Pedophila after Milo got an invite to a leading 'conservative' conference this weekend.

Quote
McCain voted for Betsy DeVos.  I don't think you need to say more than that.
DeVos is incompetent, but as she is truly small change next to some of the other things Trump is doing. Come on impeachment, I have a bottle of Tequila waiting for that day of celebration!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 01:03:24 PM by superaielman »
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Shale

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #657 on: February 20, 2017, 03:01:35 PM »
DeVos is incompetent, but as she is truly small change next to some of the other things Trump is doing.

Indeed, but her incompetence is so obvious that she makes a good litmus test for "will you vote against the most blatantly idiotic bullshit Trump is willing to tee up for you?" Even Joe Manchin found the stones to vote no on that one.
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NotMiki

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #658 on: February 21, 2017, 02:52:29 AM »
Pretty much what I was getting at, yes.
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Grefter

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #660 on: February 21, 2017, 12:52:17 PM »
Yep
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superaielman

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #661 on: February 21, 2017, 12:54:13 PM »
The town hall ended up being overflowing, had a friend text me that people were being turned away by the time I looked at going there last night. I'm glad for the outpouring of civic pride here. http://wavy.com/2017/02/20/congressman-scott-taylor-hosts-town-hall-meeting-in-va-beach/ Taylor gave pretty thoughtful responses here, which is good.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 12:56:12 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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AndrewRogue

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #662 on: February 21, 2017, 06:25:47 PM »
Unsure if this should be in Politics or IotD.

Decided there was minimal difference currently.

http://linkis.com/iowastartingline.com/yzVnD

OblivionKnight

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #663 on: February 21, 2017, 08:55:13 PM »
...

Whiskey.  Tango.  Foxtrot.
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SnowFire

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #664 on: February 21, 2017, 10:31:54 PM »
What, is OK a fan of unreliable Jüdische Physik?

OblivionKnight

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #665 on: February 22, 2017, 01:05:07 AM »
Also, breaking news: Mitch McConnell is an asshole
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
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Excal

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #666 on: February 22, 2017, 02:13:06 AM »
Have there been any news reports on how likely that thing is to getting passed?

Three real thoughts on reading the article.  First, the person ends it with a rhetorical flourish of stating that this is wrong because universities are places for a diversity of thoughts and opinions.  I think that there could in fact be a solid defense of this bill along those lines by pointing out that there is a trend of an overrepresentation of certain viewpoints and beliefs among those who act as instructors in institutions of higher learning, and as such forcing them to hire people with more different viewpoints would thus support the goal of having students interacting with and understanding more ways of seeing the world.  Secondly, given the sort of person who'd go about and make a bill like that, I suspect that one major flaw will be that it'd be in force even in departments where the politics of the instructor should never matter, at all.  So, basically everything but the humanities, liberal arts, and philosophy.  Third, I also suspect that this guy isn't putting in the sorts of safeguards you need to make an affirmative action bill, like this is, work.  Namely, are there provisions here that show how this bill will eventually lead to its own obsolescence, are there provisions for showing how the ideological makeup of faculty is changing, for showing how this change willbe self-sustaining over time without legal oversight, and when they can expect this to happen so they can track expectations vs. results, and effectively know when they can stop forcing an unfair job market and allow people to apply based entirely on their own merits once more?

Frankly, since applying to a job like university teach is a self-selecting trait, and unlike most affirmative action bills, this one aims for political views, which is also a self-selecting trait, and given there are signs of a correlation between belonging to one political group and seeking to teach at a post-secondary level (or even, I suspect, at any level), I would be shocked to find that there are any unbiased studies which suggest that the ideological makeup of the professors at post-secondary institutions will ever be the same as the general public without it being strongarmed by law or forced hiring practices.


Huh, that took up more than I thought it would.  Anyways, on to what I actually came here thinking about.

Not sure I was ever gonna say these words, but I'm kinda impressed by Trudeau's damage control savvy.  While I'm not sure how big a percentage of his electoral base they are, there's certainly a very vocal, noisy portion which was in love with one thing they thought he'd do, and another he'd promised to do.  Namely, not build more oil pipelines, and changing our electoral system, by fiat if necessary (because having the party in power right now determine the method by which any other party might try to replace them by fiat is a genius idea, but I digress).  He's since given the ok to two major pipelines, and he recently dropped the bomb that he isn't going to change the electoral system after all.  Cue the sound and fury and the marches and the petitions.

The clever thing is, he dropped that bombshell about two and a half weeks before he was due to meet Trump for the first time.  So the dude pulls off some of the political theatre him and his father are so good at, gets along well enough with Trump while landing enough small digs that everyone can read in subtle insults and evasions of the more egregious Trumpisms.  And now all that anger is gone because if there's something the noisy ones hate more than pipelines and British systems of voting, it's Trump.  And now we're back to a chorus of Trudeau's general awesomeness and even a few shirtless Trudeau pics (though I'm really hoping those go away soon.  Damned things were fricking everywhere back during the honeymoon).

Ranmilia

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #667 on: February 23, 2017, 12:27:58 AM »
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/1000-protesters-greet-mitch-mcconnell-kentucky-speech-45635639

If people were still unclear, McConnell was kind enough to give us the direct soundbite on how the current GOP/administration thinks and functions.  They won the election: therefore they can do what they want.  And that's all there is to it.  (I think this is what OK was talking about?)

First, the person ends it with a rhetorical flourish of stating that this is wrong because universities are places for a diversity of thoughts and opinions.  I think that there could in fact be a solid defense of this bill along those lines by pointing out that there is a trend of an overrepresentation of certain viewpoints and beliefs among those who act as instructors in institutions of higher learning, and as such forcing them to hire people with more different viewpoints would thus support the goal of having students interacting with and understanding more ways of seeing the world. 

This is one of the major false equivalencies that drove the US down this cliff in the first place.  Not all viewpoints are equal.  Racism, sexism, and outright fascism are not equivalent "different viewpoints" or "ways of seeing the world" and absolutely should not receive equal representation in classrooms.  Mainly because they inherently argue against the very premises of diversity, and allowing them to take root leads to drastic inequality and human misery whenever they do happen to gain a majority foothold.  Such as what's happening right now. 

(sorry if that comes off harsh, Excal - not directing that at you personally, as you said, you don't really buy that.  Just an all too common viewpoint that I have to speak out against.)

dunie

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #668 on: February 23, 2017, 11:50:55 PM »
Yes + their use of "diversity" smuggles in a their desire to return to their structures of moralism  that's ultimately what they want. There's a grave misunderstanding of the idea of free speech. Plus I highly doubt a university with openly racist and openly liberal professors and workers would function in the longterm, especially for "business."

Excal

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #669 on: February 24, 2017, 01:10:24 AM »
Y'know...  there's points of view other than yours and 'racist'.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #670 on: February 24, 2017, 01:22:54 AM »
But in the main Republicans do not advocate for any of them.
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Grefter

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #671 on: February 24, 2017, 01:50:30 AM »
I don't read that as Dunie was trying to imply that Republican = Racist there. (Or am I misreading Excal and that isn't a response to that in that way?). I parsed it as the explicit scenario she laid out; if this bill was passed and Universities then hired openly racist professors and staff = bad results.  Not that this will automatically happen (where do you even get the staffing for that?)



Now in no way not implying that the motivation of the people behind the bill itself isn't so motivated...
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Fenrir

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #672 on: February 24, 2017, 07:52:39 AM »
You all will need to be polite to republicans to eventually win them back, but I think it's pretty fair to call every Trump voter a racist motherfucker for about 6 months

dunie

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #673 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:40 PM »
Y'know...  there's points of view other than yours and 'racist'.

No!

Edit* Less bitchy version: o rly? How you only took racism from that is beyond my threshold for caring, so, you're right.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 04:23:22 PM by dunie »

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #674 on: February 24, 2017, 06:11:00 PM »
I cannot see a feasible defense for this bill. Like, at all. It is one thing to encourage diversity, but this bill would only be encouraging discrimination. A bill that would give a bonus to universities for having a diverse staff? That is encouraging diversity. A bill that literally enforces discrimination on grounds that it is currently illegal to factor into a hiring and/or firing process, letalone even speak of in most circumstances at work is not. At least, I know it's 100% illegal where I live. And it should be. A university professor job is still a job, same as anything else.

So, yes. Diversity = Cool. But not if you're going to gain it by discrimination, because that's where the problems roll in and when the racists do gain power and positions of authority. For example? See the white house.