Best RPG ever style contest: Broken up into eras and LISTED, part 3.

[superaielman]

NES/Handhelds:

WINNERS:

1. Fire Emblem 7 (12.14)
2. Pokemon RSE (11.94)
3. Super Robot Taisen OG1 (11.09)
4. Fire Emblem 8 (10.33)

OUT:

5. Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga (10)
6. Pokemon RBY (9.4)
7. Final Fantasy 3 (9.11)
8. Dragon Warrior 3 (9.1)
9. Dragon Warrior 4 (8.87)
10. Final Fantasy 1 (7.38)

FAILURE:

11. Final Fantasy Legend 2 (6.81)
12. Lufia 3 (6.09)
13. Golden Sun (5.61)
14. Great Greed (5)
15. Tactics Ogre: Knights of Lodis (3.7)
16. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced (1.55)

PSX Era (2 of 2)


WINNERS:

1. Valkyrie Profile (12.08)
2. Baldur's Gate 2 (11.88)
3. Persona 2 (11.4)
4. Suikoden 2 (10.38)
5. Saga Frontier (10.25)
6. Ogre Battle 64 (8.66)

OUT:

7. Legend of Mana (8.38)
8. Final Fantasy 9 (8.30)
9. Lunar:SSSC (8.22)
10. Breath of Fire 3 (8.18)
11. Vandal Hearts 2 (7.62)

FAILURES:

12. Grandia 1 (7.35)
13. Arc the Lad 2 (6.33)
14. Wild ARMs 1 (5.66)
15. Tactics Ogre (2.8)
16. Hoshigami (1.1)

PS2 Era (2 out of 2)

IN:

1. Fire Emblem 9 (12.21)
2. Phantom Brave (11.8)
3. Suikoden 5 (11.58)
4. Tales of the Abyss (10.84)
5. Final Fantasy X (10.76)
6. Dragon Quest 8 (10.05)

OUT:

7. Breath of Fire 5 (9.94)
8. Skies of Arcada (9.83)
9. Digital Devil Saga (9.31)
10. Star Ocean 3 (8.91)
11. Disgaea (8.83)

FAILURE:

12. Shadow Hearts (6)
13. Legaia: Duel Saga (5.68)
14. Final Fantasy 12 (3.44)
15. Final Fantasy X-2 (3.3)
16. Xenosaga 3 (1.66)

---------


Group 1 Winners:

Chrono Trigger
Phantasy Star 4
Final Fantasy Tactics
Planescape: Torment
Breath of Fire 4
Disgaea 2
Odin Sphere
Shadow Hearts 2
Fire Emblem 7
Super Robot Taisen: OG1
Valkyrie Profile
Ogre Battle 64
Saga Frontier
Fire Emblem 9
Phantom Brave
Final Fantasy X

Group 1 Losers:

Earthbound
Shining Force 2
Seiken Densetsu 3
Legend of Dragoon
Dragon Warrior 7
Chrono Cross
Tales of Symphonia
Xenosaga 1
Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced
Great Greed
Lufia 3
Grandia 1
Wild ARMs 1
Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together
Shadow Hearts
Final Fantasy 12


Rules: You must have seven games to have your list count. Also, the top four games in the winner's group will move on, while the bottom four in losers move on. Please number your lists, it makes them far easier to count. Thanks!

[NotMiki]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Final Fantasy Tactics
2. Shadow Hearts 2
3. Final Fantasy X
4. Phantasy Star 4
5. Breath of Fire 4
6. Saga Frontier
7. Chrono Trigger
8. Valkyrie Profile
9. Odin Sphere
10. Disgaea 2
11. Phantom Brave
12. Fire Emblem 7 - if I were ranking these two lists together, this would be sitting just above FFTA.

Group 1 Losers:

1. Wild ARMs 1
2. Final Fantasy 12
3. Shining Force 2
4. Shadow Hearts
5. Chrono Cross
6. Xenosaga 1
7. Tales of Symphonia
8. Earthbound
9. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced
10. Dragon Warrior 7

[Cmdr_King]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Shadow Hearts 2
2. Final Fantasy X
3. Final Fantasy Tactics
4. Chrono Trigger
5. Valkyrie Profile
6. Disgaea 2
7. Super Robot Taisen: OG1
8. Fire Emblem 9
9. Phantom Brave
10. Fire Emblem 7
11. Phantasy Star 4
12. Breath of Fire 4
13. Saga Frontier

Group 1 Losers:

1. Chrono Cross
2. Shadow Hearts
3. Tales of Symphonia
4. Wild ARMs 1
5. Legend of Dragoon
6. Xenosaga 1
7. Grandia 1
8. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced

[superaielman]

Winners:

1. Final Fantasy Tactics
2. SaGa Frontier
3. Phantom Brave
*drop*
4. Disgaea 2
5. Fire Emblem 7
6. Shadow Hearts 2
7. Ogre Battle 64
8. Chrono Trigger
9. Phantasy Star 4
10. Planescape: Torment
*Drop*
11. Final Fantasy X
12. Breath of Fire 4
*Drop*
13. Valkyrie Profile- Still trash with a horrible main and repetitive combat.

Losers:

1. Grandia 1
2. Seiken Densetsu 3- What the hell is this doing in losers? You fail, all of you.
3. Shadow Hearts- Good, solid game.
*drop*
4. Xenosaga 1
5. Tactics Ogre
6. Tales of Symphonia
7. Wild ARMs 1
8. Legend of Dragoon
9. Chrono Cross- At least this was breezy to play through at points.
10. Shining Force 2
11. Dragon Warrior 7- I'd link to a youtube video but ya'll don't have 90 hours to see why it fails.

[Nitori]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Final Fantasy Tactics - Sure~
2. Final Fantasy X
3. Disgaea 2
4. Chrono Trigger
5 Shadow Hearts 2
6. Super Robot Taisen: OG1
7. Fire Emblem 7
8. Phantasy Star 4

Group 1 Losers:

1. Earthbound - Should be in above bracket (why is BoF1 not here)~
2. Shadow Hearts - Awesomely average.
3. Xenosaga 1
4. Chrono Cross - Played halfway. I like headaches, sue me~
5. Tales of Symphonia
6. Great Greed
7. Final Fantasy 12
8. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced

[Tonfa]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Phantom Brave (Concentrated awesome.)
2. Breath of Fire 4 (Highly enjoyable.)
3. Disgaea 2
4. Final Fantasy X (Good.)
5. Fire Emblem 7
6. Chrono Trigger
7. Valkyrie Profile
8. Final Fantasy Tactics
9. Shadow Hearts 2 (Blarg.)

Group 1 Losers:

1. Final Fantasy 12 (Good.)
2. Great Greed (aww yeah)
3. Shadow Hearts (Average.)
4. Wild ARMs 1
5. Grandia 1 (Bad.)
6. Seiken Densetsu 3
7. Chrono Cross
8. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced (no)

[Shale]

Group 1 Winners:
1.   Final Fantasy Tactics - Hey look it's one of my 10 games.
2.   Planescape: Torment - Hey look it's the best RPG storytelling ever.
3.   Shadow Hearts 2 - Still my favorite PS2 RPG.
4.   Chrono Trigger - Close between this and FFX. Massive replay value advantage wins the day.
5.   Final Fantasy X - The upper tier of this bracket is harsh.
6.   Phantasy Star 4  - See above.
7.   Super Robot Taisen: OG1 - Fairly substantial drop here.
8.   Breath of Fire 4 - Close. Series fanboyism is the main thing placing this below OG1.
9.   Disgaea 2 - Good but not great.
10.   Saga Frontier - Good but needs an absurd amount of polish.
11.   Fire Emblem 7 - Good until it gets boring.
12.   Valkyrie Profile - Good until it gets really, really boring.
   
Group 1 Losers:
1.   Shining Force 2 - I rated this in my top 3, so yeah.
2.   Grandia 1 - Battle system love.
3.   Shadow Hearts - It was fun, and had Yuri.
4.   Earthbound - I don't like the gameplay, but I've got to respect the humor.
5.   Dragon Warrior 7 - Objectively should probably be lower, but I like the job system and the gameplay enough to forgive many of the flaws.
6.   Wild ARMs 1 - Colossal meh.
7.   Legend of Dragoon - Yeah, now we get to the dreck.
8.   Chrono Cross - Style! Music! They don't save it.
9.   Xenosaga 1 - I think this was the first RPG I ever bought and put down completely without finishing even once. Because it sucked.
10.   Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced - Also sucked.
11.   Seiken Densetsu 3 - See the review topic if you want to know why it sucks.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Final Fantasy Tactics: Amazing.
2. Final Fantasy X: Amazing, part 2.
3. Fire Emblem 9: Awesome SRPG.
4. Fire Emblem 7: Ever so slightly less awesome.
5. Valkyrie Profile: Creative!
6. Chrono Trigger: Very polished.
7. Phantasy Star 4: Good all-rounder.
8. Breath of Fire 4: Same, slightly weaker on challenge/main cast hurts it?
9. Shadow Hearts 2: Yuri.
10. Super Robot Taisen: OG1: Meh. Decent, but it being in winners feels wrong.
11. Saga Frontier: Obviously inferior to the rest.

Group 1 Losers:

1. Xenosaga 1: Wow. XS hate much? It's a bit silly.
2. Legend of Dragoon: Actually decent!
3. Seiken Densetsu 3: Replay value.
4. Shining Force 2: Decent early attempt at a SRPG.
5. Grandia 1: Battle system had potential.
6. Shadow Hearts: Bleh.
7. Chrono Cross: More bleh.
8. Earthbound: Not my style.
9. Wild ARMs 1: Basically has nothing.
10. Tales of Symphonia: Bad Tales game is bad.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Final Fantasy Tactics- Simply the best.
2. Saga Frontier- A really solid game, fun battle system, and I enjoyed Asellus quest plot at least. INFIDELS.
3. Shadow Hearts 2- Really damn good game on most fronts, but less addicting than SF. Too easy, though.
4. Breath of Fire 4- Great battle system, I love the combo system and turn manipulation and the plot is solid when relating to Fou/Yuna. Otherwis kinda slow
5. Phantasy Star 4- Fun fluffy game which just hit the good points with me. Story is not great but decent, same with gameplay, and I love the story presentation as I’ve mentioned. Also Rune.
6. Final Fantasy X- My second favorite battle system in a normal RPG, but the story is looong and boring. It has good characters but also Tidus. Note that this is still an 8/10.
7. Valkyrie Profile- Creative but the story lacked that extra punch into greatness.
8. Fire Emblem 9- Decent story up to a point, decent gameplay up to a point. Both devolve after a time though.
9. Chrono Trigger- Fun fluff.
10. Fire Emblem 7- Still a 6/10.

Group 1 Losers:

1. Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together- Godlike.
2. Shining Force 2- A really fun game. ODD EYE!
3. Xenosaga 1- Ziggy.
4. Great Greed- IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS A GREAT GAP IN OUR VALUES
5. Shadow Hearts- Good first half, psyduck second half.
6. Chrono Cross- I remember a little of it and I quit because of sidequests.
7. Wild ARMs 1- I don’t remember it.
8. Grandia 1- Bored me to tears.
9. Earthbound- Blah.
10. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced- Um, at least the story could have possibly not failed given the premise?
11. Seiken Densetsu 3- No such hope here.

[Dhyerwolf]

Group 1 Winners:
1 Valkyrie Profile- Love
2 Shadow Hearts 2- Love, but not quite as much as VP
3 Final Fantasy Tactics- Very Solid.
4 Odin Sphere- Love, but it's flaws weigh Heavy upon it.
5 Final Fantasy X- Solid
6 Saga Frontier- Had some cool stuff
7 Chrono Trigger- Solid, but not outstanding
8 Breath of Fire 4- Fou Lu is awesome, don't care much for the rest
9 Phantasy Star 4
10 Fire Emblem 7- Not really good at anything.

Group 1 Losers:
1. Legend of Dragoon- Inexplicable liking
2. Shadow Hearts- Yuri+Awesome setting+Koudelka
3. Chrono Cross- Like it a decent amount
4. Grandia 1- See Above
5. Wild Arms 1- Okay
6. Lufia 3- Best Lufia!
7. SD 3- Had some cool stuff in it.
8. Earthbound- Pokey is worth a few places up.
9. Xenosaga 1- Dull
10. Tales of Symphonia- Below average at everything
11. Shining Force 2- Overall dull
12. Final Fantasy 12- Battle system of endless fail

[BaconForTheSoul]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Disgaea 2- It's me
2. Final Fantasy X- Is FFX
3. Fire Emblem 7- Is FE7
  **BIG DROP**
4. Shadow Hearts 2- SH2 is awesome, just not one of the above 3 (Or BG2)
   **DROP**
5. Breath of Fire 4- Good, not great
6. Chrono Trigger- Good, but less replay value for me than a lot of SNES games
7. Valkyrie Profile- Good, but less great than the above
8. Final Fantasy Tactics- Not awful, but this is a winners bracket so this makes sense
9. Ogre Battle 64- Meh

Group 1 Losers:  

1. Shadow Hearts- Wow this is a loser?
    **BIG DROP**
2. Legend of Dragoon- Not god awful
3. Earthbound- Not god awful, despite me remembering it for shit
4. Chrono Cross- getting closer to god awful
    **DROP**
5. Xenosaga 1- And we've hit god awful!!!
6. Final Fantasy 12- These last 4 sucks so bad, I'm going in order of shinyness
7. Seiken Densetsu 3- Not as shiny as the above 2
8. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced- Lacks any shiny

[Twilkitri]

Group 1 Winners:

1 - Planescape: Torment - Awesomeness let down by horrendous battle system
2 - Breath of Fire 4 - Great overall
3 - Valkyrie Profile - Great overall that isn't a BoF
4 - Fire Emblem 7 - Best FE
5 - Super Robot Taisen: OG1 - Great with lower replay than FE7
6 - Fire Emblem 9 - Overly complicated FE
7 - Phantasy Star 4 - Best PS
8 - Final Fantasy Tactics - Pretty good let down by several factors
-Drop-
9 - Chrono Trigger - Mehish

Group 1 Losers:
Bah at missing the target by one.

1 - Tales of Symphonia - The heck is the only good tales game doing here?
2 - Wild ARMs 1 - Uninspiring.
3 - Legend of Dragoon - Painful battle system and somewhat boring. But pretty.
4 - Earthbound - Obsolete
5 - Final Fantasy Tactics: Advance - Not SD3
6 - Seiken Densetsu 3 - SD3

[Clear Tranquil]

Group 1 Winners:

1) FFX - Since S03 is out I have to choose the next best gameplay <_< FFX isn't generally one of my favourite systems but it still has a lot of twink potential (plus FFX challenges are awesme >_>)
2) Favourite story line. Gameplay isn't up to much out with of certain things and tbh the only reason I replay this is because I love Lucia's battle boots.
3) Chrono Trigger - Awesme fluff but still fluff. Plus I don't really like Marle <_<
4) Breath of Fire 4 - Main cast fails compared to Fou-Lu, the ending sucked.  Still interesting enough romp the first time through. Never got the chance to replay so don't know the full value of the gameplay/twink potential though meh =/
5) Valkyrie Profile - Not incredibly fond of platforming aspects. Might have ranked higher if I'd played it more extensively
6) Disgaea 2 - Too *much* gameplay? o_o
7) Phantasy Star 4 - Meh


Group 1 Losers:

1) Shadow Hearts - Yuri! Also Alice.
2) Wild Arms - *whistle*  Seriously though this was an epic introduction into the Wild Arms series for me and I think ... was my first non FF RPG as well ... so yeah >_>
3) Legend of Dragoon - Same as Dhyer
4) Seiken Densetsu - I really don't understand the hate for this game <_<
5) Grandia 1 - Awemse fluff but still fluff.
6) Final Fantasy 12 - Gameplay ... but not overall not as fun as my above picks?
7) Chrono Cross - It has Harle at least.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Group 1 Winners:

1 Disgaea 2 - Pretty much amazing all-around, strong gameplay that perfects Dis1's flaws, though weaker dialogue/humor. Still #1 here.
2 Valkyrie Profile - Though VP is close. Creative, and the story was impressive. Each individual einherjar's story really stood out.
3 Odin Sphere - repetitive, but the story/presentation sells it. Battle system was still fun even if repetitive.
4 Fire Emblem 9 - Best FE
5 Phantasy Star 4 - Generic, but fun setting/presentation combined with no real negatives puts it here.
6 Final Fantasy X - Can't believe FFX ended up this low.
7 Phantom Brave - Pretty awesome, though not as polished gameplay as Disgaea.
8 Shadow Hearts 2 - Setting/characters are best part, but story and gameplay are also strong at points.
9 Fire Emblem 7 - Getting Average.
10 Chrono Trigger - Polished Average
11 Final Fantasy Tactics - More polished average
12 Breath of Fire 4 - unpolished average, though has Fou Lu.

Group 1 Losers:

1 Grandia 1 - Doesn't belong here.
2 Tales of Symphonia - Cause I like Tales gameplay + fun character interplay.
3 Earthbound - Humor makes it worthwhile.
4 Shadow Hearts - Better than everything else here?
5 Chrono Cross - Generic, but memorable.
6 Wild ARMs 1 - Generic, but a fun enough start to a good series. Point for original RPG setting.
7 Shining Force 2 - Meh
8 Final Fantasy 12 - Pretty bad, but not complete trash.
Huge drop!
9 Xenosaga 1 - Not as bad as XS2 or 3
10 Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced - Pretty much the worst game I've ever played.

-Djinn

[Sierra]

Group 1 Winners

1. Odin Sphere
2. Valkyrie Profile
3. Final Fantasy X
4. Final Fantasy Tactics
5. Phantasy Star 4
6. Shadow Hearts 2
7. Chrono Trigger
8. Disgaea 2
9. Saga Frontier

Can't vote on the second group. LoD and FF12 for great failure, though.

[OblivionKnight]

I assume you're doing the rest of the winners/losers next week?

Group 1 Winners:

1) Shadow Hearts 2 - Better cast beats out Disgaea 2.  Damn, the top ones here are gooooood.
2) Disgaea 2 - Really good overall!  The cast, if it were Disgaea 1's, would win it.  Damn good nonetheless.
3) Planescape: Torment - Yeesh...I want to put this as 1.  But...I guess the better combat and replayability of the top 2 take it?  Damn.  Still awesomeness incarnate.
4) Chrono Trigger - Still excellent after all this time. 
5) Phantasy Star 4 - Badass.  PS2 might beat out CT, though PS4 is still a damn sight better than many things.
6) Fire Emblem 9 - This feels too low.  The game is badass.  Just...I prefer the others above it!
7) Final Fantasy X - See above it.
8) Phantom Brave - Yeesh.  All great, 10/10 games...and they feel underranked.
9) Valkyrie Profile - Badass, though hey, now we're out of 10/10 territory, at least.
10) Fire Emblem 7 - Worse than FE9, which...puts it down here.  And it still isn't bad.
11) Odin Sphere - I need to finish it.  Honestly, I feel like it could go higher, but...it probably won't break the top anyway.  Great game in many ways, but...still need to finish the last sections (end of Oswald - I've been moving so slow recently >_>).
12) Breath of Fire 4 - Good game.  Tough competition, though I don't love it like the others.
13) Super Robot Taisen: OG1 - Uh...wow.  Ok, not a huge fan of OG, but it's not bad.
14) Saga Frontier - Bleh.  Fucking mechanics and no story/characters.  Still owns...
15) Ogre Battle 64 - Crap
16) Final Fantasy Tactics - The ultimate shit here.

Will do the next one later, but...Jesus.  Worse than the top group in every way!  Guess it makes sense.  But wow....some games are good here, some are complete shit, then some are EPIC.

Group 1 Losers:

1) Shadow Hearts
2) Wild ARMs 1
3) Lufia 3
4) Tales of Symphonia
5) Shining Force 2
6) Earthbound
7) Grandia 1
8) Great Greed
9) Chrono Cross
10) Xenosaga 1
11) Seiken Densetsu 3
12) Dragon Warrior 7
13) Legend of Dragoon
14) Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together
15) Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced
16) Final Fantasy 12

Final Fantasy 12 and FFTA are so damn close.  Decided to let HAIR win out for the day.

[Lady Ashe]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Final Fantasy X - Amazing.
2. Shadow Hearts 2 - Equally amazing.
3. Ogre Battle 64 - Pretty fun game that I haven't played in forever and am probably overrating due to nostalgia. I wouldn't have it any other way.
4. Fire Emblem 7
5. Disgaea 2
6. Chrono Trigger
7. Odin Sphere - Painful.
8. Saga Frontier - More painful.

[VySaika]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Saga Frontier
2. Valkyrie Profile
3. Final Fantasy Tactics
4. Final Fantasy X
5. Fire Emblem 9
6. Fire Emblem 7
7. Shadow Hearts 2
8. Ogre Battle 64
9. Phantom Brave
10. Chrono Trigger
11. Phantasy Star 4
12. Breath of Fire 4
13. Super Robot Taisen: OG1
14. Odin Sphere

Group 1 Losers:

1. Earthbound
2. Xenosaga 1
3. Chrono Cross
4. Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together
5. Tales of Symphonia
6. Wild ARMs 1
7. Shining Force 2
8. Legend of Dragoon
9. Seiken Densetsu 3
10. Final Fantasy 12
11. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced

[alanna82]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Fire Emblem 9
2. Valkyrie Profile
3. SaGa Frontier
4. FFT
5. PS4
6. BOF4
7. FE7
(big gigantic gap)
8. Disgaea 2
9. Chrono Trigger
10. Shadow hearts 2
11. FFX

Group 1 Losers: (why do I like this group more than the winners?)



1. Earthbound (this game should be on the winners list.)
2. Tales of Symphonia (this too)
3. Chrono Cross (this also, its much better than Trigger)
4. Grandia 1 (also a winner)
5. Final Fantasy 12 (also a winner)
6. Dragon Warrior 7 (it wasnt that bad)
7. FFTA (also wasnt that bad)
8. Wild Arms
9. Lufia 3 (I kind of liked the battle system)
10. Legend of Dragoon (okay, this one belongs here)

[Talaysen]

Group 1 Winners:

1) Final Fantasy X - It's FFX.
2) Final Fantasy Tactics - It's FFT, which isn't as good as FFX.  And I've been accused of hating the FF series before.  People are stupid.
3) Breath of Fire 4 - For some reason I really loved BoF4.
4) Phantom Brave - Fusion.  Just overall a good package.
5) Super Robot Taisen: OG1 - Customization and actually fun SRPG gameplay.  Really, this and the two above it are really close.
6) Shadow Hearts 2 - Still good, but noticably below the above.
7) Planescape: Torment - Plot hype.  Need to finish it, but I don't think I have it anymore.
8) Saga Frontier - Overall fun, despite its flaws.  Seeing it this low is strange, but tough competition here.
9) Valkyrie Profile - Overall good, but there's just something that keeps it from going higher.
10) Disgaea 2 - Still good, but yeah.
11) Phantasy Star 4 - Slightly above average, but that hurts in this field.
12) Chrono Trigger - Bleh, ATB.
13) Fire Emblem 9 - Bleh, FE.  Still, seems better than the GBA games.  Probably wouldn't be this low under different circumstances, as much as I hate to admit it.  I mean, I haven't tossed the disc out the window yet!
14) Fire Emblem 7 - Bleh, FE.  This one deserves to be low, but even this is kind of bad.  At least it's not...
15) Odin Sphere - AFJOOOJHOEANOSDF

Group 1 Losers:

1) Wild ARMs 1 - I are fanboy.
2) Xenosaga 1 - Before the series sucked.
3) Shadow Hearts - Bah, this is still good.
4) Grandia 1 - Gameplay was fun.
5) Chrono Cross - Gameplay was fine.
6) Legend of Dragoon - See above.
7) Earthbound - Rolling HP for the lose.
8) Lufia 3 - Just kind of bleh.
9) Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together - Gameplay failure.  Plot is good though.
10) Final Fantasy 12 - Uh, Larsa hype?  Why is this so high.
11) Tales of Symphonia - Fails.
12) Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced - Fails more.
13) Seiken Densetsu 3 - Fails on a level comparable to Magna Carta.

[Lance]

Group 1 Winners

1. Fire Emblem 9
2. Final Fantasy Tactics
3. Shadow Hearts 2
4. Phantom Brave
5. Fire Emblem 7
6. Chrono Trigger
7. Phantasy Star 4
8. Valkyrie Profile
9. Breath of Fire 4
10. Saga Frontier
11. Final Fantasy X


Group 1 Losers

1. Tales of Symphonia
2. Shadow Hearts
3. Wild ARMs 1
4. Earthbound
5. Seiken Densetsu 3
6. Lufia 3
7. Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced
8. Chrono Cross
9. Grandia 1
10. Shining Force 2
11. Final Fantasy 12
12. Xenosaga 1

[Monkeyfinger]

Group 1 Winners:

1) Ogre Battle 64
2) Final Fantasy Tactics
3) Chrono Trigger
4) Fire Emblem 9
5) Valkyrie Profile
6) Shadow Hearts 2
7) Breath of Fire 4
8) Planescape: Torment
9) Final Fantasy X
10) Saga Frontier
11) Phantasy Star 4
12) Fire Emblem 7


Group 1 Losers:

1) Tales of Symphonia
2) Shadow Hearts
3) Chrono Cross
4) Grandia 1
5) Seiken Densetsu 3
6) Xenosaga 1
7) Wild ARMs 1
8) Final Fantasy 12
9) Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together
10)  Earthbound

My fucking god what a difference between the groups. #9 in the first one is about equal to #3 in the second one.

[Veryslightlymad]

Group 1 Winners:

1)Final Fantasy X
2)Phantasy Star 4
3)Chrono Trigger
4)Disgaea 2
5)Fire Emblem 7
6)Final Fantasy Tactics
7)Fire Emblem 9
8)Valkyrie Profile
9)Phantom Brave
10)Ogre Battle 64



Group 1 Losers:
1)Grandia 1
2)Shining Force 2
3)Chrono Cross
4)Seiken Densetsu 3
5)Shadow Hearts
6)Wild ARMs 1
7)Tales of Symphonia
8)Earthbound

[InfinityDragon]

Group 1 Winners:

1 - Breath of Fire 4 - All around goodness.
2 - Saga Frontier - Setting and battle system are made of win.
3 - Planescape: Torment - Clunky combat, but that's its only fault.
4 - Valkyrie Profile - Fun combat, awesome dungeon design. Good setting, but the plot is abysmally stupid.
5 - Final Fantasy X - Best combat system in the FF series. Idiotic linearity and horribly cliched characters hurt it.
6 - Fire Emblem 7 - Fun at first, but then you realize the first map is as difficult as all the following maps.
7 - Final Fantasy Tactics - Decent at its core, but has a slow, clunky, boring battle system and an insultingly bad plot.
8 - Chrono Trigger - Sucks
9 - Phantasy Star 4 - No redeeming features at all. This piece of shit belongs at the bottom of the next list.

Group 1 Losers:

1 - Lufia 3 - Amusing game as long as you don't take it seriously.
2 - Wild ARMs 1 - Good setting, music, and characters. Battle system is passable, but nothing special. Definitely needs polish.
3 - Xenosaga 1 - Decent battle system, does the space fantasy setting well. Characters are pretty bad and the music grates after a while.
4 - Seiken Densetsu 3 - Fun battle system, sucks at everything else.
5 - Grandia 1 - See Lufia 3.
6 - Legend of Dragoon - Meh, below average in most respects, but not terrible.
7 - Shining Force 2 - Massive drop here. Now we're getting into "holy shit this is bad" land.
8 - Final Fantasy Tactics: Advanced - Solidly beats FFT as far as the core battle system is concerned...everything else except a few songs from the soundtrack are horrible.
9 - Shadow Hearts - Lame
10 - Final Fantasy 12 - Way too many flaws make it painfully boring.
11 - Chrono Cross - Horrible shit.
12 - Earthbound - Cool setting marred by a horribly idiotic turn based battle system, shitty characters, and shitty plot.
13 - Great Greed - This game is fucking stupid.

[Dunefar]

Group 1 Winners:

1. Final Fantasy Tactics - Duh.
2. Chrono Trigger - Awesome beyond words.
3. Saga Frontier - Outstanding niche title.
4. Disgaea 2 - Typical Disgaea awesomeness.
---DROP---
5. Final Fantasy X - It's a solid game.
6. Odin Sphere - Good but stiff.
-DROP INTO SHIT-
7. Shadow Hearts 2 - The plot is bad fanfiction.
8. Valkyrie Profile - Crappiness and wasted potential.
9. Phantasy Star 4 - Eh, didn't do it for me.
10. Breath of Fire 4 - Pure shit.
11. Planescape: Torment - Overhyped and pure shit.
12. Fire Emblem 7 - The opiate of the masses.

Group 1 Losers:

1. Tales of Symphonia - Once again the DL fails at taste.
2. Shadow Hearts
3. Wild ARMs 1 - None of these three deserve to be here, but there were some bitchin' fields.
4. Grandia 1
5. Seiken Densetsu 3 - It all sucks from here on out.
6. Legend of Dragoon
7. Dragon Warrior 7
8. Chrono Cross - DOES NOT EXIST WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT ALL OF THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU - Wait, nevermind, CT never had a sequel. Yes. What a pity.