Proving grounds Tide Tier (Low light): :-* in full force.

[superaielman]

Sancho- FM4 temp. One of Tide's many heroes.
Sacred Slayer- XF healer, bad at offense.
Ilyana (FE9 only)- Lews Therin Kinslayer not included.
Thief (FFT)- Thief. Thief never changes. E: Male

Sancho vs Allen (XS3)
Sancho vs Dean (WA5)
Sancho vs Emma (ACF)
Sancho vs Kain (FF4)
Sancho vs Noel (SO2)
Sancho vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Sancho vs Randolph (Lufia 3)
Sancho vs Aeris (FF7)
Sancho vs Paula (EB)
Sancho vs Brey (DQ4)
Sancho vs Arietta (TotA)
Sancho vs Mogu (BoF1)

Sacred Slayer vs Allen (XS3)
Sacred Slayer vs Dean (WA5)
Sacred Slayer vs Emma (ACF)
Sacred Slayer vs Kain (FF4)
Sacred Slayer vs Noel (SO2)
Sacred Slayer vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Sacred Slayer vs Randolph (Lufia 3)
Sacred Slayer vs Aeris (FF7)
Sacred Slayer vs Paula (EB)
Sacred Slayer vs Brey (DQ4)
Sacred Slayer vs Arietta (TotA)
Sacred Slayer vs Mogu (BoF1)

Ilyana vs Allen (XS3)
Ilyana vs Dean (WA5)
Ilyana vs Emma (ACF)
Ilyana vs Kain (FF4)
Ilyana vs Noel (SO2)
Ilyana vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Ilyana vs Randolph (Lufia 3)
Ilyana vs Aeris (FF7)
Ilyana vs Paula (EB)
Ilyana vs Brey (DQ4)
Ilyana vs Arietta (TotA)
Ilyana vs Mogu (BoF1)

Thief (Male) vs Allen (XS3)
Thief vs Dean (WA5)
Thief vs Emma (ACF)
Thief vs Kain (FF4)
Thief vs Noel (SO2)
Thief vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Thief vs Randolph (Lufia 3)
Thief vs Aeris (FF7)
Thief vs Paula (EB)
Thief vs Brey (DQ4)
Thief vs Arietta (TotA)
Thief vs Mogu (BoF1)

[Random Consonant]

Sancho vs Dean (WA5) - Shouldn't have problems enforcing a heal lock here, La Alianza folks don't have significant evasion and pierce armor doesn't help Sancho here.
Sancho vs Kain (FF4) - e: Outdone by BLOOD SPEAR, Sancho?
Sancho vs Noel (SO2) - So unless I looked up the wrong shotgun for Sancho he has a total of 112 shots with his three refills, Noel durability is below average but probably not so much that Sancho performs better than usual here (12HKO with bad accuracy)... seeing as how Noel is under no pressure here he can just punch Sancho and coast off of his 21 shots of 50% healing, which is too much.
Sancho vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Some status of some sort should work.
Sancho vs Randolph (Lufia 3) - Gets something unpleasant off.
Sancho vs Aeris (FF7)
Sancho vs Paula (EB) - yep
Sancho vs Brey (DQ4) - Uh well the good news is that Borya doesn't heal lock.  The bad news is that I'm inclined to see GT hitting all body parts...
Sancho vs Mogu (BoF1)

Sacred Slayer vs Dean (WA5) - I... think?  If Dean crits at the wrong time SS isn't going to be in a good way.
Sacred Slayer vs Kain (FF4) - no
Sacred Slayer vs Noel (SO2) - Uh I'm not really willing to hype Noel's MP draining here but... it... really doesn't matter, does it?  If even if SS adopts an aggressive strategy of Fragile -> poke -> poke... Noel won't be out of healing before SS runs out of Fragiles, and if she doesn't VP damage will erode some of the ground she has from her better and more plentiful healing (and again, 55% accuracy so of course she's not even doing better than Noel physicals).
Sacred Slayer vs Black Wizard (FF1) - I think?  BW status accuracy can't be good here.
Sacred Slayer vs Randolph (Lufia 3) - As a rule of thumb you need to be 50% PCHP for SS to 2HKO post-fragile, and no, Randolph isn't -that- bad.  Were she faster, this might have been enough anyways, but she doesn't even 4-3 to me so he gets off something unpleasant.  She could try chipping... but no, accuracy is too problematic.
Sacred Slayer vs Aeris (FF7) - Runs into some awful limit here I'm sure.
Sacred Slayer vs Paula (EB) - Paula like 6HKOing someone with that much healing sure.
Sacred Slayer vs Brey (DQ4) - Unless the ID here is quite wretched (more than advertised) I'm not sure how Borya loses this, going off of 4DS.
Sacred Slayer vs Mogu (BoF1)

Ilyana vs Dean (WA5) - Well WA5's speed spread is naturally quite wretched so I'll say Dean doubles here.
Ilyana vs Kain (FF4) - Again no hype for jump doubling and Kain only 3HKOs, Wind is a drop but should at worst 4HKO Kain unless you don't consider it forged or something.
Ilyana vs Noel (SO2) - Probably correct unless Noel also has some unlisted fire resist available to use.
Ilyana vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Again BW status is quite wretched here.
Ilyana vs Randolph (Lufia 3) - ORKO
Ilyana vs Aeris (FF7) - Probably fails to get around Seal Evil.
Ilyana vs Paula (EB) - PSI Shield deserves little respect as usual and Paula can't afford to take an offensive strategy here.
Ilyana vs Brey (DQ4) - Bounce should make Ilyana weep lilies here unless I've missed something?
Ilyana vs Mogu (BoF1)

Thief vs Dean (WA5) - You could maybe argue that steal weapon vs. a WA5 character hoses them bad?  Not really sure how I feel about that.
Thief vs Kain (FF4) - surely not thief here
Thief vs Noel (SO2) - super can tell you more of this spectacular marvel
Thief vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Should be able to block the worst of the status if that's an issue here and outslug from there.
Thief vs Randolph (Lufia 3) - Well Thief has speed on his side here at least, a 3-2 should suffice and his first attack won't trigger anything life-threatening.  For hilarity, Randolph's damage should become quite terrible when bereft of his +450 atk weapon
Thief vs Aeris (FF7) - Steal Heart should give Thief free reign to steal Aeris's weapon and bangle, making her offense wretched and his slightly less so, I think that's enough because I really don't want to think about this more than I have to.
Thief vs Paula (EB)
Thief vs Brey (DQ4)
Thief vs Mogu (BoF1)

rest of this flaming trainwreck later

[SnowFire]

Sacred Slayer:
82% speed, can heal 27 times before running out of MP (assuming no Fragile nonsense, and that duration is pretty bad anyway).

The XF generics damage average throwing out Gadgeteer is ~103, and arguably a tad even lower including some special classes.  So...  .37 PCHP damage @ 60% accuracy.  Taken at lower weapon levels, accuracy problems might get even worse.  EDIT: Whoops, that's 37% of average damage, or an amazing .14 PCHP when it hits.  More like .8-.9 PCHP over time.  Ow.

Sacred Slayer vs Allen (XS3) - Some sort of super-move or boost.
Sacred Slayer vs Kain (FF4) - Blood Spear until the healing or VP runs out.
Sacred Slayer vs Noel (SO2) - Horrible MP draining.
Sacred Slayer vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Status.
Sacred Slayer vs Aeris (FF7) - Seal Evil.
Sacred Slayer vs Brey (DQ4) - Huh, neither Zenny nor hinode even listed attack damage for Brey if he Bikills himself.  That said, there is Poison Needle (no way does magic damage work here).  Brey is...  2HKO'd, but at poor accuracy, so call it more like 3HKO'd.  Can Brey get a Poison Needle proc off in 3 attempts?  super claims its hit rate is like 20% so prolly not.  There's a Sleep game as well, but that also has problems.  EDIT: Wait, no, SS's offense is so much worse than I thought.
Sacred Slayer vs Arietta (TotA) - Not really a Light to me.
Sacred Slayer vs Mogu (BoF1) - Mogu 4HKOs without crits, so SS can safely heal after 2 hits.  And if a double is incoming, heal up to full and only lose to two crits in a row.  No.

1-7


Ilyana vs Allen (XS3) - Heal a lot then boost?  ...nah, Ilyana's crit rate wasn't great (Tallychu claims enemy average luck is 5-7), but it wasn't horrible at 10 crit, she'll zap first.
Ilyana vs Kain (FF4) - Kain doubles and apparently FF4a gave him Lightning resistance gear so Ilyana's damage is even worse than usual by switching to Wind.  Which arguably Kain "counters" anyway since he's supposed to be good vs. Valvalis or something.
Ilyana vs Noel (SO2) - Noel punches too weak even against Frail Ilyana, and if he heals he burns MP like crazy because his heals aren't very good.  And Silence is like turn never vs. Ilyana Res.  He can even force Ilyana to equip a Fire tome via nulling Lightning & Wind and it doesn't matter.
Ilyana vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Super resistance to the rescue!
Ilyana vs Aeris (FF7) - Ilyana can't chip around Seal Evil.
Ilyana vs Brey (DQ4) - The good: Brey doubles!  The bad: he's hitting the wrong defensive stat.  EDIT: The ugly: Bounce.
Ilyana vs Arietta (TotA) - Dark > Arcane yo
Ilyana vs Mogu (BoF1)

4-4.  Counters are still pretty good it turns out.


Thief (Male) vs Allen (XS3)
Thief vs Kain (FF4)
Thief vs Noel (SO2) - Noel doesn't particularly care if his stuff gets stolen.  EDIT: Maybe?  Apparently Noel's weapon does give him magic power, so maybe not, but eh, Thief will probably be at death's door fast with no Aegis Shield.
Thief vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Thief vs Aeris (FF7) - After Zack left her, Aeris will date bascially any guy she sees.  and "loan" her staff & armlet to them.  Although apparently Aeris loses less damage from going staffless than I thought...  she might well beatdown faster even post-theft!  and at least threaten a Healing Wind.  Goddamn it, switching the vote to naked Aeris.
Thief vs Brey (DQ4)
Thief vs Arietta (TotA) - Bad Thief.  She's too young and also a boss.
Thief vs Mogu (BoF1) - Wins the slugfest.  alternatively dude where's my claws

1-7.  Equally as bad as Saced Slayer.  Thief-F...  isn't much better off, Allen/Noel/BW all block the status and she probably loses to Aeris, but maybe beats Brey.  Same result in the end.

[Tide]

THE MIGHTY Sancho vs Allen (XS3) - I'm think? Both are pretty bad but Allen probably has greater resource depth and Boosts don't share the same resource as his healing so he should have the edge in this.
THE MIGHTY Sancho vs Dean (WA5) - Dean will eventually get to a point where he will have the FP for a Double Critical which probably heal locks Sancho forever at the point.
THE MIGHTY Sancho vs Emma (ACF) - Good grief Sancho. You actually let Emma play around with her skill set. That's so incredibly sad that I have no further words.
THE MIGHTY Sancho vs Aeris (FF7) - Sancho can't break past Healing Wind >_<. Christ.
THE MIGHTY Sancho vs Paula (EB) - This match is literally Snow. The Mighty Sancho's healing will keep him afloat as he slowly gnaws Paula to death. Y-Y-YESZ
THE MIGHTY Sancho vs Arietta (TotA) - Sancho eventually rams face first into Big Bang and can't kill before he dies. I think one of the forms have basic magic anyway; otherwise Sancho wins since Big Bang can't kill. RIP.

1-5. E-p-I-c as is deserving of the mighty Sancho.

Sacred Slayer vs Allen (XS3) - Boost overwhelming, sure.
Sacred Slayer vs Dean (WA5) - Sits on FP probably and waits for a crit + double crit afterwards I guess. I'm not thinking too hard about this one.
Sacred Slayer vs Emma (ACF) - Well, if you actually let Emma get set up, she's pretty competent >_>. Granted, this says a lot more about how incompetent you are
Sacred Slayer vs Aeris (FF7) - Seal Evil thankfully makes this one easy. Otherwise you have finite resources vs. technically infinite one. So Aeris still wins, but just in a lot more pathetic way. More so than right now.
Sacred Slayer vs Paula (EB) - This is :biodame:. Random's right though. Paula trying to kill someone with that much healing = no
Sacred Slayer vs Arietta (TotA) - I think? Rams straight into Big Bang, but can heal from it and has the RES to tank through the other bad magic attacks, so she should manage.

2-4. But still not as mighty as THE MIGHTY Sancho

Ilyana vs Allen (XS3) - I sadly don't remember Allen too well, but think Snowfire's right. Allen can try stalling by natural crit on Thunder Magic means its risky and its only a matter of time before he gets blown up.
Ilyana vs Dean (WA5) - Sure
Ilyana vs Emma (ACF) - Ilyana might have bad speed, but Emma's worse and probably actually gets doubled (76% average - really?). Even if she doesn't Double, I'm not sure what exactly saves Emma here other than chancey status rates which likely aren't turn 1. She could do Anti-Magic zone and try status then but that assumes she doesn't get blown up before setting up all the pieces.
Ilyana vs Aeris (FF7) - Seal Evil
Ilyana vs Paula (EB) - Paula can't make anyway using PSI Shield and the moment she attacks, she's going to get blown up by counters. That amazing 0.55 PCHP at work folks.
Ilyana vs Arietta (TotA) - We finally have one person who won't ram into Big Bang! And probably wins the damage race afterwards maybe. Geez.

4-2. In this sea of bad, turns out that having counters makes you suck less! Whowouldathunk

Thief (Male) vs Allen (XS3) - Probably. Allen also likely has the better offense when I think about it which is all kinds of pathetic.
Thief vs Dean (WA5) - Thief is faster but Dean is more damaging. The doubles don't come fast enough for Thief, so easy enough.
Thief vs Emma (ACF) - Charm does actually probably wreck Emma here since its a 56% chance of her giving him some really bad boost (Great Booster Thief is slightly less pathetic than standard Thief) and she can't block it. She can't really two round him either due to bad stats and he goes first.
Thief vs Aeris (FF7) - EDIT: This match is CANCER. Thief steals weapon, then steals accessory, then waits for an Assassin Dagger proc to win. WHAT the fuck is this shit? SUPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!
Thief vs Paula (EB) - tfw you realize Thief has 2HKO damage. FeelsBadMan.
Thief vs Arietta (TotA) - I dunno. I think Thief just rams into Big Bang like the MIGHTY Sancho and then dies afterwards since he can't heal >_>

3-3. Thief is the Nergal of Low Light.

[superaielman]

Sancho vs Allen (XS3)- I don't think Allen is much ahead of Sancho on offense and he is so bad on stats .
Sancho vs Kain (FF4)- Blood Spear.
Sancho vs Noel (SO2)- Resources.
Sancho vs Black Wizard (FF1)- Status.
Sancho vs Randolph (Lufia 3)- Has offense.
Sancho vs Aeris (FF7)- Sancho offense is garbage.
Sancho vs Brey (DQ4)- Confuse is bad news here.
Sancho vs Arietta (TotA)- What the fuck,  Arietta gets a limit.
Sancho vs Mogu (BoF1)- Mogu.

Sacred Slayer vs Allen (XS3)- Allen is trash.
Sacred Slayer vs Kain (FF4)- Blood Spear.
Sacred Slayer vs Noel (SO2)- Noel. Noel never changes. Wins by running SS out of MP/VP/will to live.
Sacred Slayer vs Black Wizard (FF1)- Good luck hitting that status here, BW. E: Temper/Haste lock, SS can do dick all to stop this.
Sacred Slayer vs Randolph (Lufia 3)- Oversold SS's offense. Randolph getting a limit.
Sacred Slayer vs Aeris (FF7)- Seal Evil yeah.
Sacred Slayer vs Brey (DQ4)- POISON NEEDLE HYPE?! This is some next level failure.
Sacred Slayer vs Arietta (TotA)- chip chip KO. Arietta makes Nergal look like Emerald WEAPON.
Sacred Slayer vs Mogu (BoF1)- Mogu is also trash.

Ilyana vs Allen (XS3)- Allen can't one round Ilyana with physicals? GET OUT.
Ilyana vs Kain (FF4)- Yeah no. Ilyana doesn't beat fighters.
Ilyana vs Noel (SO2)- I think he can resist all of her elements offhand.
Ilyana vs Black Wizard (FF1)- Racially Insenstive Wizard back to being Racially Insensitive Wizard, losing embarrassing slapfights to low lights.
Ilyana vs Randolph (Lufia 3)- Don't think Randolph can get off two attacks here no matter what he does.
Ilyana vs Aeris (FF7)- Seal evil I think.
Ilyana vs Brey (DQ4)- Bounce.
Ilyana vs Arietta (TotA)- Arietta.
Ilyana vs Mogu (BoF1)- Mogu.

Thief (Male) vs Allen (XS3)- Allen is and remains trash.
Thief vs Kain (FF4)- NOPE.
Thief vs Noel (SO2)- Thief needs to: Steal Noel's weapon, armor, and then silence, and THEN outslug. I don't think there's a single goddamn thing Noel can do to stop this. That is factoring in that Thief's physical is like a 10KO with the mage masher. I have no words. It gets worse if you don't allow the silence blocker (Magical Rasp IC armor), as Thief goes straight for the silence. It's possible Noel could win this but god, he's so slow on anything magical and his physicveal is innately inaccurate. Vomit.
Thief vs Black Wizard (FF1)-E: I don't think Thief can prevent BW from getting 3 turns? Open to arguments though.
Thief vs Randolph (Lufia 3)- Randolph is bad.
Thief vs Aeris (FF7)- Charm works for me. If you don't allow charm/respect it the fight gets closer but I still think Thief wins.
Thief vs Brey (DQ4)- Kneejerk? Brey is so bad against fighters.
Thief vs Arietta (TotA)- Arietta, still garbage.
Thief vs Mogu (BoF1)- Mogu.

[DragonKnight Zero]

Sancho vs Kain (FF4)  Blood spear, sure, even with the stat drop
Sancho vs Noel (SO2)  Noel runs Sancho out of healing first in this extended slapfight.
Sancho vs Aeris (FF7)  Seal Evil if nothing else

Great item bot in game, terrible alone


Thief vs Kain (FF4)  I let Jump hit Thief so he's badly hurting before swiping Kain's weapon through the evasion.  Think Kain can win the slugfest from there.
Thief vs Noel (SO2): Earth Clothes gives Thief all sorts of time to steal weapon, any silence blocking equipment, and silence with Mage Masher.  Noel can get off a few Blood Suckers while being stabbed which really only delays the end result.  It's then a race between Thief's butter knife and an unarmed Noel.  Death by a thousand cuts follows.
Thief vs Aeris (FF7): Going with the sillier option.  Stab with Assassin Dagger until Death Sentence lands, before or after swiping her weapon.  Also, Steal Accessory exists to swipe her status blocker if need be.  Could be argued based on power of Aeris physicals.

What the hell is this nonsense, FFT weapon procs worth something?

[074]

Thief vs Dean (WA5) - Can Thief weapon steal before Dean does too much damage?  No idea just yet on this one, though I'm less likely to give him respect for crests than some other WA5 characters
Thief vs Kain (FF4) - Yeah, I'll buy outfighting.  Jump gives Thief fits as well.
Thief vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Black Wizard doesn't give a shit.
Thief vs Aeris (FF7) - Charms, steals her weapon and armor.  I don't see her being able to limit-heal-lock after that.
Thief vs Paula (EB) - thief vs. .  Enough said.
Thief vs Arietta (TotA) - Can't steal, can't charm, and I remember her being durable enough to where Thief probably can't chip around Big Bang.
Thief vs Mogu (BoF1) - Dude, where's my claws?