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Author Topic: What Games are you Playing 2017?  (Read 80750 times)

Captain K

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #575 on: May 11, 2017, 10:27:04 AM »
Persona 5: beaten.  7/10 in the context that I've played Persona 3 and 4 before.  Would rate higher if it was my first Persona game.

So, this game brings nothing new to the series and what it does do is worse than what's been done before.  It doesn't have the atmosphere or pacing of P3, nor the setting or characters of P4.  And wow is this game on rails too much.  "Let's not do that right now."  FUCK YOU MONA.

Dungeons were decent, at least a step up from P4s.  Still prefer P3's random dungeons.

So the ranking goes P3 > P4 > P5.

89 hours, finished at level 73 (killed Reaper once).  Maxed out Chariot, Heirophant, Tower, Hanged Man (on the last day, didn't even get to use it), Temperance (mah waifu), Death.  Moon was at level 2 because fuck you Moon.  I actually went out of my way to always pick the dialogue option for Moon pretending the Phantom Thieves don't exist.

Spoiler stuff:
The Akechi stuff was handled pretty terribly.  Other than the pancakes thing, everything they show you is something that happened off camera, that your character just "forgot".  Despite Akechi being telegraphed, I was expecting Mishima to be the real villain because Futaba talks at one point about the person controlling the Phantom Thieves popularity.

Kamoshida was a really great villain.  I loved how they showed the difference between his public face and his private actions.  Problem is, he was also the first villain and the game had nowhere to go but down from there.

Ryuji:  Was boring.  A large portion of the plot revolves around him revealing the identity of the Phantom Thieves every 5 minutes.  The scene escaping from the boat was pretty great though.

Ann:  Also boring.  This character appears to have been made strictly as fap-bait.  From the latex suit to falling over with her ass in the air to attacking enemies with a dildo (critical assist with electromag whip equipped), she's just an object.  They could have done something interesting with her being from another country, but they didn't.

Yusuke:  He had a personality but was annoying.  Missed opportunity for him to say "IT'S HIGH NOON" when summoning his Persona.

Makoto:  Also boring.  She did feel a little more realistic than the other characters.  Great outfit and her introduction scene is the best in the game.  But her codename is lame, should have been Rider.

Haru:  NUH-WAHR!  MILLADEE!  God I hate this character.  Worst in the game.

Morgana:  Second worst character.  Tries to be Teddie from P4, just ends up being pointless.

Futaba:  This was the best character.  Although she had plot-device hacking powers, she felt like a real person with a variety of emotions.

Sojiro:  Good character, good UOM.

Kawakami:  So the Valentine's Day scene goes like this.  Sojiro's asking if you have any plans, cause when he was young he was a real ladykiller.  Kawakami walks into LeBlanc.  Sojiro's mouth drops.  "Miss Kawakami?  So... a teacher and a student?  That really happens?"  Then he leaves, we talk for a bit and then Kawakami says "Tonight you're going to take care of all MY needs."  Hell yeah!

Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #576 on: May 11, 2017, 01:53:18 PM »
Woah I disagree hard.

Salt and Sanctuary: Oh shit how could I forget to mention this:
 I died to a mimic and the game said "8000 salt lost to mechanical lever"
???
I went back to the mimic, killed it, got no salt back.
Then I went down below and saw that the lever I already used to open a door was full of salt twirling around it? Shit got real there, I couldn't activate it again or hurt it so I had to leave it there and lose all my salt. I'm still happy though, because that's the best bug I've ever seen in a game TBH

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #577 on: May 11, 2017, 09:46:47 PM »
I had no idea that could happen, but I've never actually died to a mimic.

NotMiki

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #578 on: May 12, 2017, 05:11:50 AM »
Salt and Sanctuary 2h weapons are a joy to use, if a tad overpowered.  You can pick up the warhammer fairly early.  Smash some dudes with it.  Don't knock it til ya tried it!
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Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #579 on: May 14, 2017, 12:57:37 PM »
Salt & Sanctuary vita always crashes in Hagel's on the way to the boss so I've dropped it for now. A patch is on the way apparently.


Persona 5: On the boat, all confidant maxed (except the forced ones)
I'm sure the game is very proud of its story but that was dumb.

Thanks to strength lvl 10 I made a cocytus. Nice but just okay! I then made her into claws, which were, again, just okay. But then I made  a Shiva, which is ludicrously good by that point. He has Auto-Matarukaja and opens every battle with MT Severe Gun damage. Makoto/Yusuke wipe the rest.

The high fusion cost is so high I probably won't be able to finish the compendium, which makes me :(

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #580 on: May 14, 2017, 10:29:47 PM »
Final Fantasy Dimensions - NINJAS

Are you ready for wanky edgelord NPCs? I know I am!

Alba now has access to Dancer. The main thing Dancer has going for it is that Osmose Dance takes less JP/AP to access than does Osmose, otherwise the job offers little for a solo besides bad durability. Speaking of Black Magic, not having that at level 5 (due to not having done the grind for Deep Freeze that Dusk did) is going to make the randoms here harder than they were for Dusk. The randoms themselves fortunately are a bit less good than the corresponding ones in the early parts of the Paladin chapter.


Moonlight Wood: The game talks up how this is a hunting ground and hands you a new bow right at the dungeon's start (which several enemies are weak to) so I figure sure why not. Red Mage with Counter and HP+20 probably isn't what they had in mind but it works pretty well! A number of the enemies here are also seen from Mt. Wells.

-Clouded Eagles are not as scary as Caladrii were but they still do respectable enough damage and can rarely use blind. They get 2HKOed by bow attacks which is nice.
-Tanglethorns use a lot of turns trying to paralyse me and getting trolled by my sweet red shoes. They're weak to fire so MT Fira can clean 'em up fast enough.
-Clouded Wolves are a rather vanilla enemy, they do enough damage though that I often cast Protect at the start of fights involving them.
-Juggernauts are similar. Weak to fire.
-Clouded Bears are bulky and hard-hitting and can be confused.
-Mythril Dragons are even bulkier and extremely hard-hitting and can also be confused. Still uh those hits they land on me do hurt! So I sometimes heal myself with Cura mid-fight, imagine that.
-Coeurls can use Blaster (chance of instant death), which makes them grade-A douchebags. Sleep + Confuse double lockdown is worth it here.

I have a few resets, generally either from Coeurls or Mythril Dragons.

At the end of the forest I fight a wanky ninja. It's a plot fight of course and he retreats after a few rounds. I should really count how many plot fights this game has. For now I'll just settle for saying it's too many.


Shop upgrade with L6 spells and some new gear. For now I mostly just buy a new sword+shield so I can do Backliner red mage physicals better.

Akame Valley: Yikes, this dungeon is a huge drain on my Hi-Potion supply. I actually run out once, have to retreat and do it again, and almost run out again before clearing the dungeon. Not having L5 black kinda sucks! But unfortunately I'm not that tempted to fix this lack because I really want to work on Red Mage for my ninja setup I have planned (plus getting it to L10 for an extra slot then L13 to carry the skillset are both worthy benchmarks; I do achieve both this chapter).

-Purobolos: Vulnerable to Break, doesn't like Blizzara much either, but hits quite hard with Fira. If they're the last enemy left, they're a candidate for Attune Blade spam to restore MP.
-Blood Lamias: Slap counters are kinda annoying (damage that can confuse, but I block that permanently now with Red Shoes). Weak to fire. Various status can slow them down. If they have Embrace I don't see it.
-Beligians: I have no idea why they're called this; they're horses. They double physical for decent damage, or can use Roundhouse for damage + stun. Ew.
-Devoahans: They can also hit pretty hard and are weak to fire, confuse helps.
-Wild Ogres: Hit hard, lots of HP... Mini makes them a free win though. Mini is below 100% unlike most status at this point, but good enough.
-Undertakers: Can be hit by sleep, otherwise they're really annoying, bulky and Quake hurts quite a lot.
-Destroyers: The most annoying, they're bulky and have no status holes I can use.

Casting Protect at the start of some fights is actually worthwhile since my offence isn't too strong and most things can't be petrified. Ranger, when I switch to it, does actually work somewhat better. Otherwise I sometimes use -aras, which are by now quite weak unless hitting a weakness, and sometimes use Backliner sword physicals which are somewhat better and save MP but lift confuse/sleep from enemies which are my main ways of controlling them. I sometimes run Counter too but Counter and confuse don't have great synergy.


Underwater Tunnel: Easier than the previous dungeon because petrify is back in style after a dungeon where it was near useless. That said there are some very capable enemies here too and it does take a few tries, and eats about 70 of my Hi-Potions.

-Gelatos: Mmm, gelato. Anyway, they regenerate a bunch and are vulnerable to Break. They can use Curse Breath which is kinda annoying but they mostly show up in statusable formations so not that annoying.
-Sea Flowers: They can inflict slow, the jerks. Sleep too, though this matters less. But can be petrified.
-Grand Shells: They can inflict slow and be petrified... I think I just said that.
-Poison Toads: Can not be petrified, but can be confused, and weak to ice and not too durable, so direct assault works well enough. Their firebreath is no joke, though, even though it's a MT move that doesn't focus, about 500-600 and they can show up 3 at once.
-Hoanes: Confusable. Can use silence so I block that via Scholar's Hat. Weak to lightning, not too durable.
-Leach Squids: From the previous chapter. Still hard-hitting even now. Still vulnerable to Break.
-Goblin Mages: They hit quite hard with their spells, around 1000! Confuse makes them use their (surprisingly respectable) physicals instead, and silence can shut them down more permanently. Leaving one for last = Attune Blade food.
-Mother Lamias: Unlike their brethren in the previous dungeon, they DO have Embrace (petrify). And a lot of status immunities. Know what they don't immune? TOAD. Experimentation pays off, no petrify 4 j00.

I reach Leviathan. Leviathan is a lot like Styx (a good start), hitting a bit less hard and with fewer statuses overall, but with one extra bit of annoyance: it can counter with Slow. I have no way to block Slow so this sucks. This fight is winnable especially if I use White Mage to counter Slow with Haste and am hyper-conservative with healing buuut the problem is this will probably need at least one Elixir, maybe more. And Leviathan's not really a good enough spell to justify this at this point.

Unfortunately not defeating Leviathan means there's no teleporter back, so I have to walk. This worries me a bit but knowing the enemies well and being able to take a very direct route back instead of taking all the detours for treasure makes my remaining Hi-Potion supply last long enough.


Tower of Trials: Miniboss right away. It's basically  a random but I aproach it wrong.

Lesser Ninja x4 (1 reset) -  They are reasonably fast and can double physical or use Shuriken for about 600-700 to the back row, and since there are four of them that can be tough. On the second try I cast Protect immediately, and use a combination of Confuse and Sylph to get them down; they're more durable than the average random but nothing super-special in that regard.

ninja plot nooooo. Fortunately Jinnai can kill himself off reasonably quickly thanks to being a ninja.

Anyway, randoms here are legitimate again, let's talk:

-Lesser Ninja: Just covered, they're pretty common here in a lot of formations actually!
-Kurohabaki: They are pretty much the "Greater Ninja"; they use a lot of ninja moves including various MT spells and Stunner (Red Shoes say hi), as well as double physicals. The bigger thing is they immune all status and have decent HP so I usually deal with/confuse their allies, get Protect up, Cura a few times if needed and take 'em down.
-Poison Toad: See previous dungeon.
-Nix: Can hit hard with magic (1100 or so) or use some status like Silence and Confuse, I block silence after dealing with this. Vulnerable to Break/Silence, or are a source of MP if needed.
-Attack Dog: Can Roar for an annoying turn-cancel. Vulnerable to Break.
-Devout: Along with Kurohabaki, the other main jerk of this dungeon. Divine Shot and Dark hit slightly less hard than Nix's magic, but they have no status holes... other than Slow anyway. They're durable enough that Slow is worth it. They sometimes cast MT Protect or Shell too.
-Helios: Like many other giants, can be Minied and thereafter can't deal damage. Not quiiiite harmless after that if they have support because they can still use Roundhouse for stun. I'm picturing tiny little versions of these guys using roundhouse kicks and it's adorable.

There are three trapped treasure chests containing some decent formations of the above but all are near save points. There's also a plot fight mid-dungeon zzz. Then...


Tobikage (5 resets) - Bascically a more well-designed version of Wendigo from FF5, there are four of him. Hitting the wrong one makes it immediately vanish, but will use a counter, either a Sweep for ~300 or a Wind Slash for ~600 (the latter unfocuses MT). The real one can use Displacement to revive any fakes and then immediately shuffle their positions (there's no pattern I could notice). He can also use it as a counter to taking damage sometimes, though never the first time he is hit between Displacements (he'll say "Hmph!" instead). Otherwise they use a combination of their counter moves, and physicals and MT ninjutsu which do anywhere from 200 to 600, but remember there are four of them so this can add up. The real one also has a few extra moves up his sleeve, and yes him using one will telegraph where he is: one is Flash for blind. Sadly, though, waiting for him to use these is a bad idea, because the other is Assassinate for ID. Can't block that, GG.

Anyway I try to win with a Ranger Ogrekiller (anti-human weapon) Quick Shot barrage and it works kinda well but his ability to use counter Displacement means I can't take advantage of my time advantage very well. And if I go on a bad run of picking targets he will be able to get off Assassinate eventually.

I then try to win with Summoner. This works better, surprisingly: Summon takes out everyone at once and makes me eat three counters but "Hmph!" also appears to reset his AI so that I don't see Assassinate, that or I just get lucky. However the offence adds up fast against Summoner's poor speed/HP and it's easy to get stuck casting Sylph in a heal-lock until enough time goes by for him to throw in ID, or just overwhelm me with damage because I have to be at least somewhat aggressive.

The solution is to gain a couple levels in Summoner so that I can cast Titan as another class, namely Red Mage of course. Now I can cast Protect at the start of the fight, then use Titan or Sylph as necessary with far better stats than what Summoner could pull off, so I never have to Sylph twice in a row. Titan like 7HKOs him too. Not an easy boss by any means and I did have to resort to a little grinding (I might have been able to win with MT Dark, probably should have tried, but it is a lot weaker...) but not too bad.


A little more dungeon with some tougher formations (a sneak attack by Devout + Kurohabaki is one I have to run from) and I reach the final save point. Then another plot fight as invincible Jinnai plotkills Tobikage. Then...

Elder (3 resets) - Man 50000 HP is a lot at this point. The fight has three phases, 15k/15k/20k each, let's talk about 'em.

In the first phase he is a generic ninja. His physical ignores row and hits for a bit over 1000 depending on setup, and his ninjutsu do somewhat less but are MT. He'll rarely counter magic with Slow (agh) or physicals with a physical of his own. Aside from the Slow counters this is easy-peasy and his damage here is low enough that even Slow counters wouldn't be a bother.

The second phase is the Real Problem. When he takes 15000 he'll counter by "putting his back to the wall" and powering up. Now his ninjutsu does over 1000 too. Worse, he picks up Noxious Gas (Toxify, must be healed or blocked), Assassinate (so sayeth the guides, I never see it), Great Gale (HP-1), and Wind Slash, which does a staggering 2600 ITD magic damage (unfocuses against a team). He's reasonably speedy. A Great Gale used while charging may mean you're dead next turn. Hell, even if I heal with Sylph, I may die next turn because Wind Slash does more than it can heal! This happens at least once. The one good thing is that Elder's defence drops during this phase.

The third phase sees the emergence of the Mind Parasite, the true boss. At this point the Elder loses his old skillset but he continues with the ability to output loads of damage. -aga spells can do over 1500. Not so bad you say? He can doubleact them after Spellshock (Deshell). Still not that bad? In the second half of the final phase (... the fourth phase? I dunno man) he can doublecast them for over 3000 damage even if you're not in Deshell, the highest damage of any boss to date. He'll also counter periodically with Mind Blast (does around 600, but also adds Sap and Paralyse). The one nice thing about this phase is that it will waste some turns on Forsaken (some MP damage and confuse).

This boss is kinda custom-made to overcome Sylph spam. The threat of ID and Great Gale->Wind Slash in phase 2, and then the huge damage of phase 3, mean turtling is no bueno. But hey, I have other plans. See, the Elder is, unlike Avalon's generals, weak to human-slaying weaponry, even when the Mind Parasite comes out to play. And the strongest weapon available to Ranger at this point is the Ogrekiller, which hits weakness on humans. A Ranger with Ogrekiller Quick Shot can do around 1400 per swing (four times a round), 1800 during the second phase. So it actually only takes around 8 rounds of offence to down the entire boss this way. Quick Shot does produce a few more counters than I'd like, but they're uncommon enough and none of them inflict Slow, so that's acceptable.

Setup is thus Ranger with HP+20%, MP+20%, and Counter; we don't need no stinkin' healing skillset! Front row since no reason not to, Red Shoes to block confuse/paralyse and equip for speed past that. The plan is to spend as little time in phase 2 as possible, in particular. X-Potions can be used to heal when my HP drops (I make sure to go into phase 2 healthy even though Great Gale is a threat). I use one Elixir as well midway through the fight to restore both HP/MP (Quick Shot does burn through it), and probably 3-4 X-Potions in all. I get a little lucky as his one use of Spellshock misses but all that does is save me some items and I had others to spare.

Ninja chapter complete!

Alba Level 79
Ranger L13
Red Mage L13
Dark Knight L7
Summoner L7
Warrior L5
Black Mage L5
White Mage L1

It's worth noting that she's 6 levels higher than Dusk now; some of that is the Asmodai grind but a lot of that just seems to be that the Ninja chapter is longer and grants more exp than the Paladin chapter; every dungeon in Ninja is longer than the corresponding one in Paladin except for Moonlight Wood versus Mt. Wells.

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Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #581 on: May 15, 2017, 07:04:35 AM »
P5: I'm in the final dungeon. Jingle bells.

Let me grade all the time wasting activites in the game. On hard mode.

Raising confidants:
- Chariot: 9/10. Sure, everybody hates Ryuji, me included, but: 1) you can focus on him at the beginning and get a lot of cool in-battle bonuses before anyone else gets them 2) he's one of the best characters endgame thanks to Matarukaja 3) Shiki-Ouji is a godsend persona earlygame 4) the rank 7 Auto-kill is neat
- Lovers: 9/10. Ann comes early and is one of the best for a long time. Not impressive endgame, but only at the very very end? Crocodile Tears is 100% useless because demon negociation is weird in this game
- Emperor: 6/10. Pretty good for most of the game. Clear LVP at endgame though, and not amazing against bosses, which is where the confidant in-battle abilites matter the most. I've never duplicated cards. Who the fuck does this
- Priestess: 8/10. Better healer than Morgana, but not by that far. Confidant bonuses are decent quality of life but disposable. Looks fucking rad
- Empress: 9/10. Really interesting stats and skills, plus her crops rule. Why doesn't any shop sell carrots / tomatoes, in Tokyo? This would have made the earlygame so much easier
- Hermit: 9/10. All these skills are RNG but they're all so good and free?
- Hierophant: 4/10. I mean, coffee / curry is good for the earlygame if you don't know about the clinic I guess. +1 for the fucking coffee trivia
- Sun: 7/10. This guy helps fill up your compendium, and that's about it. +1 for the cool story
- Death: 10/10. She's fun. And SP Adhesive 3 removes the stressful part of the game entirely
- Moon: 9/10. More exp. More exp means More personas. Yes. You can even ignore his dialogue and treat him like shit, he'll auto-rank up
- Hanged: 3/10. I've tried gun customization super late in the game. Gave everybody the best guns and customized to max. It still wasn't really worth it. I could have fused a Metatron instead! The game needed a cheaper way to restore bullets
- Star: 9/10. More money is good. Party member swapping is so important for the later boss fights.
- Fortune: 10/10. Biggest timesaver in the game
- Temperance: 9/10. I love reading in class and getting massages after dungeons. -1 for the maid outfit, come on this was already sleazy enough without it
- Tower: 6/10. Much better than I expected for a gun focused confidant. Down shot makes recruiting no-weaknesses enemies a breeze, and bullet hail is neat
- Devil: 4/10. All the abilites are useless. You do get a lot of charm points + exp boost for devils, that's still something

- Studying at home: 2/10. For chumps
- Crossword puzzles: 4/10. Oh great, hard crosswords, for a subpar knowledge bonus, on random ass days only. I can't rate it too lowly because the concept is really cool
- Reading books at home: 3/10. Reading books should only be done in class or in the subway, unless you want a fucking trophy from it
- Using the washing machine: 1/10. Just let your maid do your laundry instead
- Making coffee: 4/10. Just let your maid do it too, if you care, I guess. Still not too bad , for SP healing early , and Soji points. And it's cool. Quietly making some nice coffee with your coffee machine is one of the best things about this game
- Making curry: 3/10. See making coffee, less useful because it comes later
- Hot bath: 6/10. Good earlygame source of charm. -1 because I never could get any the special effects on rainy days to happen, and I suspect this might not actually be a thing
- Making tools: 9/10. Hell yes, lockpicks and huge proficiency gains
- Battling cage: 2/10. Bad minigame for low rewards. +1 point because it looks nice
- Training: 5/10. More max HP isn't bad at all TBH when MC death = gameover
- Installing a DVD player and watching DVDs: 4/10: A relatively bad way to raise stats. You waste one day installing the player. There's no easy way to tell the good DVDs from the bad ones. Morgana will fuck you over and you'll have to return your DVDs late. Still, this is so damn cool I can't give it a bad rating
- Installing a console and playing videogames: 6/10. They're very much like DVDs, except it comes later in the game, has additional but worthless rewards. But they're even cooler. Playing videogames in a videogame is my thing. I finished them all
- Installing a computer: 9/10. Should be done ASAP, ignore everything else, you get some of the best armors from it
- Sleeping: 2/10. Gets you a random ass bonus, sometimes. Just train instead. +1 point for the satisfaction of being a lazy fuck

- Studying at the cafe: 7/10. Very good source of knowledge and guts early on
- Working at the general store: 4/10. Gets you money and eventually a request (like every other job) No stats though... But I like how the store looks. It's neat!
- Working at the flower shop: 7/10. Good stat bonuses and $$$. Making flower bouquets and shit? Hell yes.
- Working at the restaurant: 6/10. Similar to the flower shop, but a lot more stressul
- Big bang burger challenge. 9/10. "Eat as much meat as you can" challenges are decadent and gross. On the other hand, those stat bonuses. Can't believe I aced my exams and charmed a hot girl only because I ate a really big burger
- Theater: 8/10. Consistently one of my favourite ways to raise stats, it looks really cool too. I like getting more points from it because I read a book about dutch angles once
- Gym: 6/10. The stat gains are low, but it's fun to see the MC get better and better at getting swole. I spent all days at the gym in december in my game and got super ripped (By super ripped I mean like +70HP +30sp)

- Studying at the school library: 3/10. It's like studying at the cafe but less cool and you don't get coffee

- Working at the bar: 8/10. Probably the best job, you get to be the confidant of some random washed up people for stat bonuses and money

- Fishing: 2/10. Really confusing minigame, and once you start getting used to it you've pretty much entirely mastered it already. It looks like you can get a good armor from it but you'd have to get there like 10 times at least and get bored out of your mind

- Maid cafe: 0/10. Maid cafes are Hooters for shitty nerds. No.  And I already have temperance at home anyway

- Praying at the church: 2/10. If you fucked up and replaced Makoto's Marakukaja with Splash, sure, go ahead and use it

- Spending time at the shrine: 1/10. A really bad way to rank up confidants, it might matter if you only have one left and you're super close to the end. This gives you one afternoon/evening for one note. Fortune gives you three notes and doesn't cost time. God Fortune rocks

What did I miss?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 04:07:11 PM by Fenrir »

Captain K

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #582 on: May 15, 2017, 10:12:38 AM »
I never got any special effects from the bathhouse either.  Come on P5 the rest of your game made me expect sexy shenanigans.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #583 on: May 15, 2017, 02:59:46 PM »
Persona 5 - Finished Palace 2, currently dicking around. I'm having serious trouble dealing with locations in this game - feels like I'm missing a lot of places and the game's also been terrible at letting me hang out with Ryuji and Ann. Why haven't they been at EITHER of their usual spots for two/three weeks in a row, dammit. Also, holy crap is Hierophant a slow-going Confidant Link. I agree that Death is an amazing Confidant Link. Just a great character all around, also my most advanced Link to boot.

Also, Mishima is human garbage.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #584 on: May 15, 2017, 03:17:06 PM »
Yeah the game is a bit overwhelming at first and then it keeps introducing new things. I'm surprised about Ryuji / Ann being unavailable for so long though. Generally, going with the flow is great, if someone tells you "check this out" you should do it, unless it's Mishima who wants you to go to some place with him on sunday or something

People will sometimes move. Press R1 twice anywhere to see whoever's up to hang out easily. If there's a blue card , they're available. And if there's an "UP!!" next, then the confidant link will rank up if you hang out. I stopped physically checking out where people were long ago.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #585 on: May 15, 2017, 08:10:10 PM »
It's also a thing that you can't hang out with your party S-Links if you've completed the palace but not sent the calling card yet.

Chariot 6 is apparantly also u ique in that it requires a text and night action, and will only trigger on 15 days in the entire game.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #586 on: May 15, 2017, 08:11:46 PM »
It's also a thing that you can't hang out with your party S-Links if you've completed the palace but not sent the calling card yet.

Chariot 6 is apparantly also u ique in that it requires a text and night action, and will only trigger on 15 days in the entire game.

From when to when? Ryuji's at the point where he should rank up to 6 already.
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Niu

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #587 on: May 15, 2017, 09:33:35 PM »
Temperance also has time limitations like Chariot.
Coop with required events that takes place in school are all like that. (Plot won't let you got school in certain segments of the game.)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #588 on: May 16, 2017, 12:17:18 AM »
Final Fantasy Dimensions - Twilight part 1

You can imagine some obvious joke about Twilight right here if you wish. We good?

Anyway the chapter starts out with a couple fights against Troopers, who are generic soldiers who can cast Cura. Not too worrying, like most humans they can be confused.

We then reach Mysidia. Shops aren't too new here, with one major exception: X-Potions! They cost a lot (equal to 20 Hi-Potions) but they're a neat new healing option in a pinch. Speaking of new options, Dusk now has Paladin. Since they can't Jump and have lower speed than Dragoon they're not really a great physical option for me (though a solid one normally), and Dusk is kinda committed to magic due to having Black L5 right now anyway.


Heliogabalus: For what is in theory a major dungeon (this is the empire's ultimate weapon or whatever) there's actually not much variety in enemies here... far less than in our visit here during the Memorist chapter, certainly. The Trooper makes its return, but everything else here is a machine. This means thunder damage is the way to go, and Thundara isn't cutting it any more. The best choices are Thundaga which requires being in Black Mage, or Ramuh which requires being in Summoner. Summoner proves inadequate as its lower job level exacerbates its already poor HP/speed, so Black Mage it is. My main setup for this dungeon is Black Mage with INT+20% and L1 Summon, because hey Sylph is still great especially off my now super-high Int.

-Troopers: Generic threats, use Cura sometimes, hence why having high damage helps. I no longer have Confuse but Thundaga overwhelms them and makes them spend many of their turns healing.
-Gustavs: Little robots, also can cast Cura. Weak to Thunder. Can fire off Heat Beams for like 600 which can add up fast given their tendency to appear in high numbers, or would if they weren't exploding to Thundaga.
-Couriers: Reasonably tanky and can fire Machineguns which do 900+ to the back row, ouch. Damage overwhelms pretty well again, Stop is a vulnerability I can exploit if need be.

A little ways into the dungeon there is a fixed fight with a Terminator. He can fire off an ID-inflicting Blaster faster than you can say "hasta la vista, baby". Fortunately, saying "Stop" is faster still. Equipping for speed to help get the drop on 'em is important. Thundaga and/or Tornado can deal with them past that. After this point they become randoms too, sometimes appearing with support, so Stopping them ASAP is always essential. I run a Gold-Spun Hat for paralysis immunity in case Blaster does that instead, and sometimes they do open with MT physicals instead.

A little further on in the dungeon another solider will summon a Geo Armament. These guys on the other hand are just big bags of HP. 10000 is a hell of a lot for a random at this point, and they even immune Tornado (and everything else I try). But they have no tricks and always appear alone, Thundaga 4HKOs them or Sylph can help if necessary. Again, they appear as randoms after their introduction.

Also of note in this dungeon is the Assassin's Dagger which gives a substantial speed boost, I use it over a rod for the time being but each has their place. Since I have Black Magic, restoring MP is easy; most things here can be Stopped and used as Osmose punching bags.


Vata 4 (1 reset) - You can mostly copy/paste the previous Vata fight here because it's basically the same. Red Mage, Protect/-ara/Sylph. Jump does decent damage, other moves slightly less. Howling Gale does Sap. Fast so I have to watch out for two Jumps in a row. Below half HP he gets some new moves, the most dangerous of which is Buffet which does as much as Jump and can sometimes add Stun. He can no longer use Lancet but his new dinky useless move is Critical, which does less damage than his basic double physical anyway. He also has Holy Breath but that's strictly less dangerous than Buffet. Execution is everything, I use three Dry Ethers, I win. The fight's a long one and very much shows the age of the Sylph Red Mage strategy; I probably won't use it many more times now. But it still works so hey.

Plot fight against Shango. Zzz.


There's a notable amount more dungeon after this but no new enemies so the same strategies work. After it's complete we switch parties.

Dusk Level 75
Red Mage L13
Black Mage L13
Dragoon L6
Summoner L4
Warrior L3
Bard L2
Monk L1

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Grefter

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #589 on: May 16, 2017, 12:51:57 AM »
So Watch Out for Fireballs did a thing recently on a DS game that was only online purchasable called Crimson Shroud.  It is apparently still available for like $10 or so and is like D&D flavourful as fuck.

It is a Matsuno game, so you got your Ivalice/Ogre legacy there, but is a standard JRPG stand in a line and take turns punching each other.  There is no levelling(? I could be off there), you just power up by improving gear.  You actually roll dice instead of the RNG.  You can like... throw dice off the table to save them to use on future rolls? 

Status is super important.

Game is hard as balls.

No random encounters, everything is a fixed encounter that you can redo.

If it didn't have online only purchase, random drops and an obtuse critical path it would sound like the Elfest thing ever.  I am tempted to try it out.

Dragon Quest Heroes 2 - So they made this more open worldish than the original,but that really is just substituting the boring maps with running through wilderness.  Crafting is way better, in that instead of rolling the dice on accessory upgrades you just use it to upgrade base accessories.  This lets you build up to status immunity/mostly immune to the real bothersome effects (for me it was Quake/Roar and Freeze in the original one).  They included class changing for the main characters, so you have a huge swing on variety in the mains.  There is just straight up more characters.

I hated Torneko stuff in DQ4, but apparently all you needed to do was make him borderline stereotypical Irishmen and now he is dead sexy.

It does focus too much on the new characters rather than playing with the returning ones though.

All in all it feels like bigger and better than the original, carries over the good flavour stuff of the original and really lives up to the promise of the first.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it looks like no one is playing it.  So RIP that series I guess.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #590 on: May 16, 2017, 02:44:58 PM »
Final Fantasy Dimensions - Twilight part 2

Back in control of Alba. Again, storebought X-Potions! The new job this time is Ninja, which is probably the game's strongest job overall. Let's review.

-Ninja has the second best speed of any job, with speed being generally the most important stat in this game (level adds on to Str/Int/Mind for damage, defensive stats aren't as potent relatively)
-But in case that's not enough: they're above average in every other stat too, except for Mind and MP. Their MP is still the highest of any physical job by a ways, as is their Int. Mind doesn't matter. Their Strength is about equidistant between game-best and average, which puts them notably above Red Mage, for instance. In other words, they have the best general stat build.
-Great skillset which includes ninjutsu (slightly weaker than a MT -aga, but no charge time and lower MP cost), Healing Pill (fixed 30% healing which is already at minimum better than Cura), and eventually will include some status attacks and Restorative Pill, which is fixed 60% (!!!) healing... already better than Sylph, at no charge time.
-Innate Dual Wield. It's only +50% damage in this game but uh that's still huge, and it's a huge advantage over other physical jobs for freeing up slots.

I immediately dip in for two levels to get the three basic Ninjutsus (unlike most other non-mage skillsets, you can port the skillset to other jobs starting at JL1!) and Healing Pill, then it's back to  Red Mage. My goal is to get Magic Blade, an outstanding physical skillset which is at the core of some of my lategame plans (it includes cheap elemental 1.5x damage skills, fast 100% status, and a great Osmose clone... even some healing).

Anyway, Dr. Unne tells me to go get a tablet to translate Lufenian because this game wants to repeat almost every FF1 plot point. World map randoms are mostly fire-weak and get nuked by Flame.


Rosetta Tower: There are some pretty respectable randoms here. It's made worse by the fact that two of them will use petrification, and not just as a counter either. Athena's Mirror counters this, but this kicks out Red Shoes. And enemies still use paralysis and confuse so I waste all my slots blocking those too. I run Red Mage with Ninjutsu and a random support skill (MP+20% to start dungeons, Attune Blade if MP runs low, HP+20% or Int+20% otherwise).

-Spectres: Fire-weak but reasonably bulky and not jokes on offence with their Sap-inflicting Rend, four Flames will take them out.
-Lufenian Souls: Also fire weak. They can cast Dark for a bit over 800. Interestingly, Silence doesn't prevent this, but it does half Dark's damage, perhaps because it's a fusion ability between one silenceable skill (Cura) and one not (Curse)? Interesting anyway. That said Confuse is overall a better reduction of their damage if I need it. Three Flames blow them out. They sometimes death counter by causing Berserk, but fortunately any enemies they're with are 1-2 hits from death by now.
-Mini Satanas: Cast a bunch of spells, their favourite being confuse but there are also -agas in there which hit for over 1000 if not resisted (the Dragon Shield in this dungeon halves fire). Vulnerable to Break or can be abused with Attune Blade.
-Spites: Can cast Quake or use Embrace for petrify, so Athena's Mirror is go! They can also use Entice for confuse. Also weak to fire, and petrify for that matter.
-Creatures: Can Bite for confuse+poison. Vulnerable to Break.
-Medusas: Can cast Break or Tornado. Those are nasty! Obviously blocking petrify is still go, but Tornado is dickish too. Break doesn't work on them, but Confuse does, so I mostly use that. Their claw physicals are merely decent though, so if I'm on the ball after Tornado I can use Healing Pill to get back in the game, but it's still something I'd rather not see.
-Mystic Dragons: Loads of HP, immune to all status I have, can cast -aga spells, have hard-hitting physicals. The good news is that the Dragon Shield halves their physical damage down to a mere ~500 to the back row or so, and halves Firaga too! The bad news is that they have very high HP and only give 10 AP, so I conclude after beating one that they're a big waste of time.
-Radons: These floating balls of invisible radioactive gas hydras are rare encounters who immune most status and hit hard enough to generally convince me not to bother; it doesn't help that I only ever encounter them when low on MP.

At the top there is a boss.


Guardian - He has no plot but 40000 HP, which is more than Vata. Anyway he's kinda like Vata in that he has... respectable but not overwhelming offence so we slowly turtle through him with Protect/Sylph/-aras. Let's talk about what he does:

At full HP he will either use two physicals for around 500 a swing to Protect + back row (not great accuracy so a number of them miss against my shield) or Quake for around 1100. He can also use Thwack for around 900 against Protect + back row. The latter two moves are MT but I don't care. Boring! A grind to get down but an easy one.

Below half HP he will try harder. The second physical can be replaced by Roundhouse (always hits, damage+stun) or Headbutt (always hits, 1.5x damage) adding some bite here. He can sometimes counter with Right Arm, which is slightly stronger than a single physical. And Thwack gets replaced by Pox, which not only hits harder but also inflicts the devastating Deprotect. Roundhouse has the potential to be kinda terrifying but the good news is that my Red Mage with +speed can get stunned and still charge Sylph before his next turn (unlike when Vata's stun landed), so it's not as bad as it could be; I just need to be very fast on my menu use if necessary!

My HP is around 4400 and Sylph does around half that, heal whenever my HP is below half or I suspect it will be before I finish the charge, Protect when it's about to wear out or after Pox lands it (unless I need to heal at which point things get scary), anticipate running out of MP and use a Dry Ether at that point (it takes three). Fortunately I win first try because this fight takes a while!

Alba Level 81
Red Mage L14
Ranger L13
Dark Knight L7
Summoner L7
Warrior L5
Black Mage L5
Ninja L2
White Mage L1

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Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #591 on: May 16, 2017, 04:53:43 PM »
I talked about Crimson Shroud earlier, it's real good and doesn't overstay its welcome.
I played it twice.

It had pretty average difficulty, though, it's not too hard. I didn't really dwelve in the systems I just made the best sounding numbers bigger.

There is indeed no levelling.
At one point you need a random drop to progress and that just blows though.

Grefter

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #592 on: May 16, 2017, 10:42:53 PM »
Difficulty complaints on the podcast were very very much about New Game +, but I also don't know their threshold for JRPG difficulty.  Other genres well documented, clear fans of the genre but have grown out of them, and they haven't really covered a ball buster of a JRPG on the show.  So *shrug*.  You also decide to solo games first play through Fen.  You have a knack for them.
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jsh357

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #593 on: May 17, 2017, 01:26:35 AM »
Difficulty complaints on the podcast were very very much about New Game +, but I also don't know their threshold for JRPG difficulty.  Other genres well documented, clear fans of the genre but have grown out of them, and they haven't really covered a ball buster of a JRPG on the show.  So *shrug*.  You also decide to solo games first play through Fen.  You have a knack for them.

I also played Crimson Shroud. Liked it a lot less than Fenrir, and I still don't think it's worth the cost, though the idea was cute. It's got a neat aesthetic and an interesting story presentation, but like Fenrir says, you can pretty much ignore most of the skill development in the game, which makes the seemingly-complex aspects of the game feel very underdeveloped. (I seem to recall this being a problem in TO for PSP as well) As an example, if I remember right the game gives you a metric ton of equipment that wards off various kinds of magic, but the enemy variety in the game is so low that you would never have any reason to equip any of it. I will say that rolling dice for attacks was satisfying somehow, even though they were virtual.

Difficulty-wise, I seem to recall it being very easy, but I didn't play it on NG+ so maybe it's tougher. I have listened to enough WOFF and BonfiresideChat to know the casters are... I hesitate to say bad, but not great... at games, but for all I know I found gear they didn't or something.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 01:30:38 AM by jsh357 »

Fenrir

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #594 on: May 17, 2017, 06:59:51 AM »
I meant that the games are not hard in comparison with other RPGs / Matsuno games. I'd say TO / FFT and Vagrant Story are much much harder.
It's overwhelming but easy on NG
On NG + it's harder but you know what works. And most people have no reason to play it, it's only for people who really loved it

The podcasters are pretty much always rushing through the games, I don't think they'd necessarily find the same issues as normal people unless the game is designed for rushing


LordDirtyBrit

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #595 on: May 18, 2017, 11:27:23 AM »
Haven't posted here for a while.

Final Fantasy V: Decided to replay this one after finishing Final Fantasy III for the first time to see how well it holds up. I felt that FFIII was pretty solid for an NES RPG, but the final boss was pretty tough unless you didn't grind beforehand. With Final Fantasy V, I've just got the submarine and boy has this aged really well. The battles are much faster than FFIII's and an unlimited inventory is always welcome. I also prefer how FFV is built around experimenting with the jobs to deal with different areas and bosses, as opposed to FFIII which is based around keeping to a job for as long as possible. While FFIII's job playstyle worked; I'm definitely more comfortable with FFV's, if only because I'm more used to it.

Pokemon Platinum: Beaten Cynthia, both during the maingame and postgame. I've already moaned about this game's battle speed in my previous post so I'll instead focus on a different topic. This game loves HMs so much that it causes it to become tiring to playthrough after a while. Throughout my Pokemon binge, I've tried to teach some of the HMs to my team members to minimise on HM slaves. I couldn't get away with this technique with Platinum as the game loves throwing the nigh useless Defog (before generation 6) in your face and will sometimes rear its ugly head even during the postgame areas. What I'll give this game credit for is one of the best champion battles in the series. Asides from Kukui, Cynthia is probably the toughest champion thanks to her well rounded team with great movesets and her ace Garchomp which will outspeed the rest of your team unless you are over-levelled. Overall, while I've had several good memories with DPPlt in the past, the games really haven't held up as well as the folks on 4chan and GameFAQs will have you believe.

Final team:


Temporary members:


Dialga and Palkia were mainly used during the postgame, hence why I've listed them here.

Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow: Finally decided to get round to this one as my brother bought it on the Wii U VC for me to play. I've currently reached my first warp point after meeting up with most of the cast members. It's a Castlevania plot so I'm not going to give two fucks about any of them. As for the game itself, it is pretty darn good. It's already coming off as an improvement to Symphony of the Night, a game I already enjoyed quite a bit, as the soul system allows for more depth to combat in this game. I find that they do a much better job at giving variety to your arsenal than the awkward spells for SOTN. Whether or not I prefer this game over SOTN depends on how much more challenging the bosses are.

MasterLemon

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #596 on: May 18, 2017, 11:55:12 AM »
Final Fantasy III: Game beaten. I liked this version of the game way better than the DS version, and I find the original take on the job system to be an interesting one. Even though it still has two major issues. Your bag space can run dry very quickly even with Fat Chocobo to try and solve things. It's particularly annoying when you have to empty your character's equipment before they change classes. The other major issue is that the final dungeon is comparable to Chapter 12 of Xenoblade Chronicles X in terms of poor design. It's a point of no return, and some of the opponents are too gruelling for a single sitting. The final boss in particular only has one command but your chances of survival depend on luck, you're screwed if she strikes first with Flare Wave if you're already on low health. It must have been difficult for Japanese players having to go all the way back out of Sylx Tower to save, then go back through again just to do the Dark World. Funny since the rest of the game is fine and isn't as grind-heavy as other people will tell you.

Final Fantasy V: Yeah, I'm on a job class binge right now. I just cleared the Barrier Tower and gotten control of the submarine. I played this game before and I didn't think much of it due to the fact that I was relying heavily on a guide written by Djibriel, that guy from GameFAQs who thinks he's a real comedian. Even though looking back and having a better idea on how to use the job classes, I'm really enjoying this one and I'm appreciating it as an evolution of what FFIII brought to the table.

Current job classes:
Bartz: White Mage with Summon (Yuna anyone?)
Lenna: Ranger with Counter
Galuf: Time Mage with Black Magic
Faris: Ninja with Blue Magic

Pokemon Platinum: Good grief this game didn't want to end. Too my surprise the post-game was the more tame part, and that had Stark Mountain under its belt. Platinum's end game has that crushing sea route before Victory Road, and then there's Victory Road itself. That dungeon is a God damn marathon which will have you lucky that your Pokemon have moves with two digit PP. Not to mention it requires every HM in the book, expect Fly and Cut. Even Defog is needed during the post-game portions of Victory Road. Yeah, this game hasn't aged as well as I remember. It's the Pokemon series' Final Fantasy IX; only with less callbacks to older games and no princesses in orange jumpsuits. But I'll give special mention to Empoleon for being badass during my run of the game.

Final team:

Jagens:

Post-game:


Pokemon HeartGold: I've currently beaten Morty and explored certain areas with Surf. Areas like Union Cave and Route 34 have trainers which have surprisingly high levels.

Current team:

Jagens:


Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty: Playing this after LordDirtyBrit started raving about how was a gift from the Gods or something. I've just beaten Olga and already I'm noticing improvements from the first game. Crawling doesn't feel as tight, the AI is more cunning, and the one boss I've fought currently is more interesting than “wait for an opening to perform 60s Batman stunts” battles in the first game. No, Psycho Mantis isn't an interesting fight anymore. Everyone and their mother knows how to beat it. Also, listening to Otacon fail at giving proverbs never leaves me without a big stupid grin on my face.

There, here's my life's work!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 04:19:18 PM by MasterLemon »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #597 on: May 18, 2017, 04:33:33 PM »
Quote
I also prefer how FFV is built around experimenting with the jobs to deal with different areas and bosses, as opposed to FFIII which is based around keeping to a job for as long as possible.

Interesting; with the original FF3 I don't think I agree with this? FF3DS yeah sure, you want lots of JLs. In the original FF3, though, jobs are gonna go obsolete eventually regardless but are often very spiky in terms of performance, so it really rewards using certain jobs in certain areas, as well as certain brute-force things like a Scholar for Hein or Dragoons for Garuda.

FF5 certainly rewards experimenting somewhat too, though there are some powerful options which really reward staying in one job for a while, moreso than in FF3o.


Quote
I played this game before and I didn't think much of it due to the fact that I was relying heavily on a guide written by Djibriel, that guy from GameFAQs who thinks he's a real comedian.

I can take or leave Djibriel's humour but that guide is superb as a source of information. Between it and the BMG you can learn pretty much everything there is to learn about FF5. I played FF5 back when guides were shit and that definitely hampered my enjoyment of the game; now I'm a huge fan.


Quote
t's the Pokemon series' Final Fantasy IX; only with less callbacks to older games and no princesses in orange jumpsuits.

That sounds eerily accurate, right down to the games being too damn slow for no reason and both having weird hipstery fanbases which will try to tell you the games are totally way better than all those other more popular games.

I've only played Diamond/Pearl but there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever it's the worst mainline Pokemon.

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jsh357

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #598 on: May 18, 2017, 05:00:55 PM »
Quote
I also prefer how FFV is built around experimenting with the jobs to deal with different areas and bosses, as opposed to FFIII which is based around keeping to a job for as long as possible.

Interesting; with the original FF3 I don't think I agree with this? FF3DS yeah sure, you want lots of JLs. In the original FF3, though, jobs are gonna go obsolete eventually regardless but are often very spiky in terms of performance, so it really rewards using certain jobs in certain areas, as well as certain brute-force things like a Scholar for Hein or Dragoons for Garuda.


Semi-tangential rant....

The caveat to the jobs having 'spiky performance' is that you actually do need to level up classes in FF3 NES for them to be useful in the long term, especially mages; you can't afford to have them changing jobs much. Magic has the same hit system as physical attacks (unshown) so, for instance, Black Mages will be considerably more useful if you stick with them and raise Skill a lot, which means you either need to level up outside the main story or just focus on one job. I remember being seriously underwhelmed by magic my first time through the game, but once I understood that there were multipliers that changed; unfortunately, it makes the class system far less engaging than it could have been. I actually think having a Skill level system in this game was a mistake from a design perspective.

The problem is that, once you understand the game mechanics, the best way to handle FF3 is to choose classes to stick with for the bulk of the game (Knight, Karateka, Black Mage, White Mage) and only swap them for specific areas that require another class or for their eventual replacements that you don't get for very long. So in the end, it's actually more like FF1 than FF5 unless you want to spend a serious amount of time with weak characters. Like MasterLemon, I appreciate that FF3 has a unique take on class systems that was a product of it being an innovative system, and it's one of the reasons I prefer the original (helped considerably by FF3 DS not having an ability system), but I've definitely become more critical of it over time and vastly prefer FF5. Would be cool to see one more mainline Final Fantasy game try the job system again and incorporate improvements from FFT, FFX-2, Bravely Default, etc. Perhaps I should be careful what I wish for...

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: What Games are you Playing 2017?
« Reply #599 on: May 18, 2017, 05:40:38 PM »
That's just the thing. You can stick with Black Mage to level them up a bunch and have them be better, but as soon as you hit the earth crystal anyone can match the performance of a high-skill black mage by switching to Magus and/or Summoner at that point. So in the end all that job focusing feels kinda worthless to me. The Earth Crystal isn't that late if you do it as soon as you get the Invincible.

I remember Karateka falling off seriously hard as time went on so maybe I didn't grind as much as you but I definitely remember inferior equipment catching up with it in a bad way such that switching to another physical job would be an improvement, Skill be damned. Sticking with Knight I can see but you definitely want Dark Knight for the Cave of Darkness and Dragoon is really great in boss fights especially once you get the Blood Lance (and four Dragoons are consistently amazing against bosses as Garuda demonstrates, though boring); there's absolutely some tradeoff there. Though I'd tend to agree that other physical jobs struggle to find a niche in that section of the game.


I like FF5 quite a bit more than FF3 too for a variety of reasons (the biggest being that being able to move skills from one job to another makes the whole system way more interesting) but I definitely don't think FF5 is less of a victim of this; you definitely want to level up jobs a bunch so you can get powerful skills out of them. Physical setups are completely worthless long-term without hard-focusing in at least one specific job (Ninja, Ranger, Mystic Knight) for instance.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.