What Games are you Playing 2017?

[Luther Lansfeld]

Revisiting old shit.

Suikoden II random thought blob (spoilers for Suikoden II, The Last Story)

It’s been a decade since I revisited the game, so I thought I would just verbalize a few feelings on the subject.

There’s this common trope in video games, of course, of the best friend who goes rogue or who diverges significantly from your path in some way, although I feel like in the modern game, this is a little bit too cliche so story writers have generally moved away from it. I feel like there’s a few criteria for making this trope stick properly, and I think S2 nails all of it.

1. Establishing relationship through dialogue and repeated themes - between all of the flashbacks and the present day stuff in the Unicorn Brigade camp and the really sweet scene between them in the fort (all sex jokes aside), I think the game builds up a pretty good repertoire on this front. I also think Nanami having a positive and happy relationship with the best friend character also helps, because there is more than one person in your army who cares about him(as opposed to say, Tactics Ogre, which is a case study on how not to do this trope.)
2. Character has aspirations beyond their relationship/jealousy of the main character - in general, characters who are primarily or solely defined by their relationship with another character are problematic, and a significant number of the people who fall into this trope (Kain being the easiest to pick on) define themselves by the main. This is a place where Suikoden II excels, because Jowy is primarily motivated by his desire to reshape the world in the way he wants and his quest to obtain the power to do so. By giving him both a pretty altruistic motivation and a brutal method for getting it, he manages to be sympathetic while still being a legitimate threat.
3. Character has significant development on both sides of the coin - both as a protagonist and an antagonist - While Jowy spends a majority of the game as an antagonist, his role as a protagonist is memorable, important, and he is a well-establishment member of team good guy before turning. I actually feel like if anything, I would have liked to see more scenes with him on the other side, particularly a development of his relationship with Jillia. I probably would have added a few more scenes to the Highland people in general.
4. Serves as a logical foil to the main - the game hammers this one home pretty hard, but it works. Often these characters are not particularly good foils because one is just bad or an idiot.

I’ve always had an appreciation for people who are willing to get shit done for the good of man because sometimes The Heroes get away with doing things in the most unbelievable, candy-ass way possible.

The reason I decided to ponder on this was because I was considering why I think Jowy is a more effective version of this trope than Dagran. Is it just because I’m older and more jaded toward all things I consider already done? I think #3 is a pretty crucial part of the puzzle and that’s where TLS really fails. His betrayal is way too late and doesn’t have any scenes beyond just the final one. While I reflected upon how S2 could have given Jowy a little more villain screen time, at least his has time to mature into his own as a bad guy character. I think TLS tries too hard to do the swerve at the very end and it hurts the game’s coherency. Otherwise, though, I think Dagran has credible motivation, he has a good relationship with Zael, and his jaded worldview is a nice contrast to Zael’s idealism. But they botched the landing.The characters are different enough that one doesn’t feel like a copy of the other. Dagran has a much more “looking out for number 1” feel whereas Jowy is driven by misguided ideology.


Other things I thought:

S2 really hits you hard with the good scenes toward the end of the game. Nanami’s death scene is always a heart piercer, and “I threw the book away. You read it too many times.” is a great showdown between two important players who otherwise would never interact. I’m also very fond of both Jillia’s last scene in the main game and of course the final duel. I thought it was interesting that Jowy lies to you about killing Jillia even then. I ended up deciding to go with the best ending rather than the bad end, because I just felt so sorry for everyone involved.

Shu is such a bastard. When Nanami explains to him why she decided to pretend she was dead, she says something like “Bobby is too important to be protecting other people like me.” and he’s pretty much like yup. I admire Suikoden II for actually having a pair of characters who do morally questionable things for the right reasons and who are not shown up/proven wrong for it like in many games.

The game pretty much holds up as well as I remembered. The bosses, for the most part, actually have teeth, and the game feels meaty without being too padded. My final party was Riou/Camus/Flik/Nina/Rina/Oulan. Rina with Cyclone/Mother Earth/Lightning was a pretty fucking silly combination for crushing randoms.

Luca remains one of the most monstrous, in your face villains there is. I was just pondering if, 70 years into Dunan’s future, will there be plaques in Highland commemorating the death of people of Muse? I feel like the facts of that will get out sooner or later. (And will there be Muse-Ritual-Sacrifice Deniers?)

Also, the game has no idea how to use its vs. it's, it makes me twitch

Bam.

[Grefter]

Ciatos makes big post about Suikoden 2.  No hype for the greatness that is Apple and just love for her abusive Bishis.

Forever Ciatos ;(

[SnowFire]

4. Serves as a logical foil to the main - the game hammers this one home pretty hard, but it works. Often these characters are not particularly good foils because one is just bad or an idiot.

I dunno.  That "Peace Conference" scene convinced me that Our Hero is an idiot, and possibly Jowy too (and the best explanation for Jowy not being an idiot involves a strong "plot hammer of fate").  So choose your poison!

Trails of Cold Steel II
Finished Act II.

Okay, I like the game a lot, but per earlier complaints...  whenever I want the plot to zig, it zags.

A) Complaint I have: there's too much cutscene help that decreases player agency by having your battle victory not matter, or require some outside aid.  The game clearly decides to fix this a bit, but in the on area where it would actually make the most sense to bring in aid?
* Fighting random merc, or a random golem: UH OH BETTER CALL IN THE CAVALRY
* Invading an occupied town that's got soldiers & robots & shit in it: WE WILL DO THIS ALONE.  (and not merely not call in adults help - decline other students help, too!  And not for reasons of "it's a suicide mission, volunteers only!")

As it happens, because the plot says so, we end up not fighting the soldiers really, which I can only hope is part of some "leadership is actively throwing the war and trying to undermine their own side" gambit.  I guess they REALLY didn't want to push a child soldiers fighting the war thing, which is fine I guess, although if they wanted to, they could have made this scenario a Mass Effect 2-esque culmination of the game, where all the allies you've recruited play a part in defeating impossible odds or some such.

B) Complaint I have: Game likes its villains way too much, even when Our Heroes have excellent reason to hate their guts due to mistreatment of close family members, and they seem to help the party more often than they hinder it.
* Person who has betrayed all he ever seemed to stand for: "I still believe in him!"  No big melodramatic hate-off.  He helps the party out way more than he should, and the party doesn't bring up any of the other differences.
* Person who is a traitor / spy / terrorist who killed a bunch of people: "Oh yeah he's fine, we'll recruit him back."  He cheers the party on and helps us out in various ways.  Nobody's mad at him.
* Person who's theoretically the big bad: Orders her troops off you, and also seems more interested in helping you forward and "training" you with the occasional boss battle than actually stopping you.

Okay, so we FINALLY reach some *actually* sympathetic villains-of-circumstance, people who already helped the party at the end of Cold Steel 1, and...
* Let's actually have a melodramatic fight!

I'm not REALLY complaining, I'll take it, just if ever there was a time to just say "Hey we surrender, the price is having an AWESOME DUEL" and not pussyfoot around these people not being villains, do it.  (Also some seriously bad opsec on the Sekrit Plan for tomorrow, wouldn't SOMEBODY in $TOWN have contacts on the other side?).  Also on that note...  come on, Falcom.  I was gonna pussyfoot around and scan them and see their moves, but Laura had a crit marker on her turn.  I couldn't resist Radiant Lioning the Group A fight and winning it in a single move.  No Domination either, this was just with a Jusis buff on top of her starting Brave.  Yes, these kind of split battles can be kind of bullshit if you somehow get stuck, but considering the plot, just make them optionally winnable like the Lorence fights in Skies.  This is on Nightmare mode against the Act boss.  I should not win in a single action, without even getting to see Tide's favorite character take a turn!

(Also jump in a lake, FAQ writer that suggested grinding up current weapons for everyone.  Telling a FAQ writer "I am so great, this fight you hyped up was actually easy" are annoying, but this is a rare time that I wouldn't feel like a jerk for sending one: you're telling people to waste their time preparing for a very easy fight.)

[Luther Lansfeld]

Ciatos makes big post about Suikoden 2.  No hype for the greatness that is Apple and just love for her abusive Bishis.

Forever Ciatos ;(

It is Super Cool that Apple bends down to give a blowjob to Abusive Bishie. All ladies need to fall in love with Abusive Bishies.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I dunno.  That "Peace Conference" scene convinced me that Our Hero is an idiot, and possibly Jowy too (and the best explanation for Jowy not being an idiot involves a strong "plot hammer of fate").  So choose your poison!

I don't agree with this at all. Riou/Namami want to believe that Jowy is their buddy and really does want peace, and that with the war's major instigator dead, peace should now be possible. With what they know, this is an entirely reasonable belief, and even if they have some reason to doubt, they're gonna want to believe the best of their friend. (Being skeptical here is Shu's job.)

Don't really see how Jowy is an idiot in that scene either; he springs a pretty good trap; due to the presence of Pilika he freaks out and isn't able to quite follow through on it, but him not having veins of ice-water is kinda the point and hardly idiocy.

[Grefter]

Riou/Nanami bringing Pilika to the peace accord is kiiiinda sketchy though, but that is just the same point you are bringing up.  It is all in character.

Ciatos makes big post about Suikoden 2.  No hype for the greatness that is Apple and just love for her abusive Bishis.

Forever Ciatos ;(

It is Super Cool that Apple bends down to give a blowjob to Abusive Bishie. All ladies need to fall in love with Abusive Bishies.

Victory at any cost.  Pride is for people who are prepared to lose.  and hey sometimes you just want some of that d


Also talking about Suikoden 2 on a page where you can search for Neclord and don't find a version of this linked is something I am fixing.

[SnowFire]

To be clear I like Suikoden II, but sorry, Riou is a complete marshmallow to a frustrating degree.  If the game wanted to sell the idea that Riou genuinely believes in Jowy while also believing in the cause he has just been leading and fighting for, they could have written him some dialogue that indicates that rather than "...", the dialogue choice for the stunned and confused person who's out of their depth.  I want to play as someone who can go toe-to-toe with the villain and argue their side (which may well be "This isn't you, Jowy!  We can stop the carnage!  I know you care!" or some such if they really want to hype Riou the believer-in-Jowy), not shut down and either concede or mutely, uh, something.  Jowy's actions at the Conference are a grievous insult, a betrayal, and a breach of honor; act like it!  If this was a one-off I could write it off as an exception or a writing gap, except the rest of the game seems to concur with Riou = charismatic figurehead (who doesn't display THAT much charisma, but whatever, silent main problems), Shu = brains who bails Riou out of trouble.

107 star ending with murdering Jowy to hell in the duel totally canon.  Kill the bastard. 

[OblivionKnight]

Persona 5
Brutal.  Savage.  Rekt. (To quote memes from games I don't play, thanks Grefter.)
Anyway, I got to the boss of the Palace, and got DESTROYED.  No mercy.  Annihilation.
The good: I ranked up Skull's bond a bunch, so have a really badass Shiisa which resists physicals, is L19, no relevant weaknesses, and has Rampage on Joker for some MT physicals.
The bad: 5 boss parts means the action economy on Panther spamming Tarunda isn't very good vs. the Tarukaja spam the boss does.  Tradin' turns to be 3 of my turns vs. 4 of their turns.  Nose's MT damage outdamages Mona's Media healing too.  The ST damage is all solid 2HKO level if not resisted/weakness'd.
The horrible: Did I mention that the bosses spells can hit weakness on my party members, nearly OHKO'ing them from full health, and surely OHKO'ing them if they aren't fully healthy?  And yes I'm wearing stuff like the Fire Ring on the fire-weak character, Ice Ring on the ice-weak, etc.  And that the boss part gets a One More off this?
The execrable: So I got him down to just the Mouth once with Joker alive at 22 HP or something before dying.  Let's say I sweep 'em.  Well hahaha the fight isn't close to over then, that's just phase 1, I even double-checked OK's stat topic.  That's "okay you can start the real fight now."

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah.  I'm obviously running our recent recruit for plot reasons, wouldn't be right to deny him his rival showdown.  Of the others...  Panther has Tarunda to stop the buff spam, if inefficiently.  Mona has MT healing, but playing slow still gets me plain out-DPS'd, my healing won't cope and even if it could, eventually an elemental weakness will get hit and that's that.  Skull can speed up the clock on wiping the physical-weak parts (most of them), but he's only ST unlike Joker's MT physicals; Fox has the same problem.  Yeah...  this looks dark.  Not sure if there's a way out of this short of grinding my way up, unless some of those armor purchases are a lot more potent than I expect....  although checking, OK's stat topic claims that they work against magic damage too, which is something I guess.  Everyone's L16 except Panther & Mona who are L15, but I could grind a tad on Panther to get her to L16, she's really close.  If I need to go to L17/18, it probably means burning a day grinding in Mementos, which is probably the plan now I guess.

Yeah, Goldmember is probably one of the rougher fights in the game for several reasons:
1) Multiple parts, meaning you can't Tarunda to nerf everything at once
2) Random action order for the first turn, so you don't know how they'll interrupt your characters
3) Can hit weakness on every party member you have at that point, and 1 Mores are painful for all involved
4) Getting MT physicals is helpful, but requires you to level a little bit (on Normal and lower, usually not a problem)
5) I think it's impossible to have a maxed confidant with any party member by that point (maybe with Skull, but it's tight, and you'd miss everyone else), so you can't get the evasion skill for their weakness

Level 17 helps a ton, as it gives Skull Rampage.  Fox gets Vicious Strike at level 18.  If you are able to gain 1 level, that would help a lot (lower boss damage, raise your damage, etc.).  Even if not, you probably need to try for a blitz if you can.  Yeah, everything revives, but they revive with 75% --> 50% MHP, and so get easier to kill.  You'll get an AoA after you destroy the parts, and then take 10 MT damage over 2 sets of actions on your team.  It's enough to recover, likely.  Attack items, if you have them, can help for taking out the Mouth (since it drains gun and physical skills), if you're running pure physical murdering with Skull and Fox.  Panther can do MT, but she'll only hurt the mouth and nose - same with any basic elemental skill (wind, fire, electric, ice).  Panther's probably the weakest party member for that fight (although 1 more level gives her Dekaja, which...might be situationally helpful if you're really hating Tarukaja).   

Yes, protector defense is universal.  Less noticeable early on, but it makes a difference.  One of the better purchases is the Padded Shirt (27 defense, En+2), since it boosts both defense and En, it's very potent.  One of the better ones you can buy for at least the first 2 dungeons, decent even for the 3rd.  It's 2400 yen, available for the first palace.  Shiisa is probably the best persona for that fight, due to no major weakness and Rampage, as you noted. 

It's generally downhill from there, boss-wise - there are small spikes later on, but the first stage of Goldmember is pretty rough since it's a perfect storm of ways to fuck you over.

[Tide]

I should not win in a single action, without even getting to see Tide's favorite character take a turn!

Cold Steel 2's difficulty is sorta amazing. Like, you know how we basically talk shit about FF8 and the million ways to break it? CS2 is sorta like that too, even on the hardest difficulty setting. Now granted, you needed the Crit event to get the OHKO, but considering that there are multiple other things such as but not limited to:

1) Delay locking. This is even better because like Fie and Angie have Delaying techs as well and can help out with this task

2) Calling in a mecha for free damage (held back by being in the operation phase, but hey)

3) Overdriving twice for free damage.

4) Infinite turn works

5) 1-2 CT Tier 5 spell casting

and you've got a game where you kind of have to let the enemies play to see what they can do. I know for a fact for example, that Pyro, even on Normal has a MT OHKO. This could be bullshit normally, but in Cold steel 2 this isn't even remotely enough since he kind of needs a turn first, which if you are playing optimally means he will never see one. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

To be clear I like Suikoden II, but sorry, Riou is a complete marshmallow to a frustrating degree.  If the game wanted to sell the idea that Riou genuinely believes in Jowy while also believing in the cause he has just been leading and fighting for, they could have written him some dialogue that indicates that rather than "...", the dialogue choice for the stunned and confused person who's out of their depth.  I want to play as someone who can go toe-to-toe with the villain and argue their side (which may well be "This isn't you, Jowy!  We can stop the carnage!  I know you care!" or some such if they really want to hype Riou the believer-in-Jowy), not shut down and either concede or mutely, uh, something.  Jowy's actions at the Conference are a grievous insult, a betrayal, and a breach of honor; act like it!  If this was a one-off I could write it off as an exception or a writing gap, except the rest of the game seems to concur with Riou = charismatic figurehead (who doesn't display THAT much charisma, but whatever, silent main problems), Shu = brains who bails Riou out of trouble.

107 star ending with murdering Jowy to hell in the duel totally canon.  Kill the bastard. 

With the caveat that silent mains suck and this argument kinda shows why... I don't have a problem with Riou reacting to that scene by being stunned, rather than being angry, which seems to be the crux of your complaint? Though yeah, obviously Riou is a bit of a figurehead leader of the war effort. He's both a silent main and fifteen. The game would have been stronger if Riou were a stronger personality, but so it goes.

[Meeplelard]

So...by demand in chat, my next abridged has been chosen and it'd be an unconventional pick, so without further ado...


Final Fantasy 14: Stormblood Abridged

Ok, so before we start, a quick note that yes, I will be inserting Meepel into this as though she's the "canon" main because it's far more interesting than a silent protagonist.  She has a gimmick, which...well...you'll figure it out!  No, I will not tell you what certain letters mean!

Faize: Wait, why am I here?
Narrator: Because I quit and someone else is going to narrate this story, and since you were the original person who broke the fourth wall and criticized...
Faize: That seems hardly fair...
Narrator: Deal with it.
Faize: *sigh* Fine.  *ahem* So after ending a 1000 year long war by stabbing a Dragon in the face...
P. Meepel: Multiple times I might add!
Faize: HEY! Don't break the fourth wall this early!  Anyway, and then trounced the Warriors of Darkness who threatened to break reality because they were pissed off.
D. Meepel: Nay, they were a dishonorable crew trying to revive gods in order to kill them so people would kill themselves.  They got the rightful JUSTICE!!! they deserved and were...not actually killed, but have to deal with Minfillia...I guess that counts?  Oh, and Alisaie decided to be awesome, a true warriors warrior!
Faize: Ok, you just broke the 4th Wall AND stole part of my narrative! And then with the help of Nero, our heroes unleashed FF5 Omega on FF5 Shinryu, leading fanboys to squee, and there was a lot of war, death and oh yeah, apparently that's where we left off.
W. Meepel: MEEPEL SMASH PUNY SLOPPY MAN!
Faize: ok, screw it, just start the story in the Rising Stones already, this narrative isn't really working.

*in the Rising Stones*
Alphinaud: So, now that we've basically broken down Baelsar's Wall, killed the Griffon, watched a robot fight a giant dragon, named said Dragon, I think it's time we go to Ala Mhigo.
P. Meepel: Sounds good to me.  At least it's not that frozen wasteland that is Ishgard.
D. Meepel: Yeah, but it's probably hot, I need to find proper attire that is both comfortable in the heat, yet not unfitting of a true honorbound hero like myself!
Alisaie: Is she...talking to herself?
Alphinaud: Yes, yes she is.  You'll get use to it in due time, sister.  Anyway, as Scions, we should form a party and head out.  We need volunteers besides myself, so whose in?
Lyse: Me.
Y'shtola: Me.
Krile: Me.
Alisaie: Me.
Alphinaud: Well, that was easy.  I guess Urianger, you stay behind and research primals because that's all you ever do.
Urianger: Got it!
Alphinaud: And I guess Thancred will single handedly defend Eorzea while we're gone?
Thancred: Already defended 5 times in the past 10 minutes!
Alphinaud: I...just...nevermind.  There is one member we still need to address *eyes Meepel*
P. Meepel: ...yes?
Alphinaud: We're going to a foreign land, and the Garlean Empire is there and seeing as you took down a legatus...and multiple gods...and a giant robot meant to kill said gods...a huge Dragon that was the first brood...
P. Meepel: I don't see any of that is relevant...
Alphinaud: What I'm saying is...you're single handedly the most valuable person on the team when fighting off a whole miltiary and we need you, please come?
P. Meepel: ...you're not going to let me say no, are you?
Alphinaud: Not really.
D. Meepel: I guess FOR HONOR, and GLORY, I will go and help defend Eorzea in Ala Mhigo!
Alphinaud: ...I'll take that as a yes, but before we go, let's see how our Doman allies are!

*next room*
Yuigiri: Yeah, we'd love to help but I think we need to check on Doma.  I mean, we did just see a huge dragon fly off in that direction and SOMEONE has to help out.
Gotsetsu: And I had chance to introduce myself, SO MY TIME IS UP FOR NOW!
Alisaie: ...is he drunk?
Yuigiri: I don't think "sober" applies to him ever.

*in Gyr Abania*
Raubahn: Ah, the Scions, excellent.  We've set up camp here. 
Lyse: So what's the situation?
Raubahn: Exactly the same as it was yesterday.  In any event, we need someone to talk to the Ala Mhigans to joining.
Alphinaud: Well that's why we're here!
Raubahn: Yes, but we can't find where they are!
Lyse: I know where they are, leave it to me!

*at a giant freaking rock*
Alphinaud: All I see is a huge boulder.
W. Meepel: Boulder? MEEPEL SMASH GIANT BOULDER!
Y'shtola: Wait, there's no boulder here...that's a glamour to hide the area, isn't it?
Lyse: Exactly right! I will use this Glamour Dispeller to get through it!

*inside the resistance camp*
Conrad: Aha, so you're from the Eorzean Alliance, welcome!
Lyse: It's good to be back, but we have urgent news to as-...
Conrad: You're going to ask us to join, aren't you, or at least an alliance?
Alisaie: Look, can we cut out all the middle stuff and you just say yes so we can get on with this?
Conrad: ...ok, that works.  We're in, but people need a MORALE BOOST before we can be effective.
Alphinaud: Ok, but I'll have nothing to do with that, I need to head back and get people from the Scion base, GOOD DAY!
Alisaie: ...after all that, he just leaves...
P. Meepel: He does that a lot...
Alisaie: I didn't say I was surprised...wait, where did Y'shtola and Krile go?
D. Meepel: Tending the wounded, like any good healer should! SUCH DEDICATION TO THEIR JOB! IT BRINGS A TEAR TO MY EYE ;_;
W. Meepel: Meepel hate puny garleans.  Meepel want crush Garlean scum!
Alisaie: Well, all we need is a token victory to raise morale...anything our information sources can help with?
M'naago: Well...you see...
Alisaie: WHO ARE YOU AND WHERE DID YOU COME FROM!?
M'naago: ...we've already met though!  I helped at Baelsar's Wall!  It's not fair!
Alisaie: ...I'll take your word for it...
M'naago: ANYWAY, apparently there's some prototype Magitek Armor they want tot est out and we can ambush it.  If we can destroy it ahead of time, it'll be a minor but impactful blow that will sure to help people out!
Alisaie: And we can use the element of surprise, let's go tell Pippin!
P. Meepel: Wait, why Pippin?  Shouldn't we tell his far more capable father?
Alisaie: Look, he needs a chance to prove himself.  I mean, he's a Gladiator despie being a Lalafell, you of all people should respect that...
P. Meepel: Well, can't say you don't have a point...

*Eorzean Alliance Camp*
Pippin: That plan sounds a little too convenient, and will only really work if they have an incompetent leader that we may or may not have run into already.
Alisaie: That's another way of saying "Let's do it" isn't it?
Pippin: Pretty much.
M'naago: Eorzeans have a weird way of using words.
P. Meepel: Well, if you want to be technical, Alisaie is from Sharlya, and Raubahn is from Ala Mhigo and...wait what were we talking about right now?
D. Meepel: We were going to destroy a horrible murder machine to save the lives of many defenseless innocents.
P. Meepel: Oh, right, heroing!

*after many failed attempts due to FF14 Early Access shenanigans I am forced to reference*
Raubahn: Ok, we're in position.
Pippin: Wait, father, when did you get here?
Raubahn: I was always part of this mission!
Alisaie: SHHH! You're going to give away our position.
Grynwald*: Ah, I dinnae this we have any trouble 'bout ere, laddies.  Easy pickins!
Pippin: That giant robot is probably the Magitek Armor.  So what's the best course of...
W. Meepel: MEEPEL SMASH MAGITEK ARMOR!!! *Charges in with a huge freaking axe*
Pippin: ...I guess there's no point in figuring that out now...
Alisaie: Let's just get this over with...

*I forget how you spell his name but going with that for now


*one fight later*
Grynwald: Wut? I b'en bested by the Warrior of Light again!? Blast, Ah'll get ye next time, ye brute!
D. Meepel: A decisive and honorable victory! *whistles the FF Victory theme while doing Cloud's winning stance*
M'naago: Did her axe just turn into a glowing Greatsw-...
Alisaie: Yes, yes it did, and we don't have time to explain that!


*back at Rhalgr's Reach, the resistance camp*
Conrad: Excellent, that should slow them down, but we still need more men!
Lyse: I got an idea, I'll go to my hometown and ask them for help, surely they'll do us a solid!
Meffrid: Can I be important and help too?
Lyse: Sure, why not.  Meepel, you're coming with me too!
P. Meepel: Of course I am, not because I want to, but because literally nothing gets done if I am not there to take action.
Lyse: See, you're catching on!
P. Meepel: Oh don't worry, I figured this out a long time ago...like, around the time I fought Ifrit long ago...on reflection, why haven't I quit again?
D. Meepel: Honor?
P. Meepel: ...eh, sure, why not.

*at Lyse's hometown*
Lyse: Hey guys, LET'S FIGHT THE GARLEANS!
Elder: No.
Lyse: What!? But why?
Elder: Look, while you were busy having fun in Eorzea dancing around and punching things with your sister Yda...
Lyse: Technically, Yda wasn't there much and I was more punching things alongside a bothersome intellectual Lalafell Thaumaturge...
Elder: NOT THE POINT!  Point is, we've lost so much, and living is the best we got, we're not going to throw our lives away.
Lyse: But...
Elder: YOU HAVE NO PLACE HERE DESERTER!
Lyse: You're spineless!
Elder: AND STILL ALIVE!
P. Meepel: So while you two were arguing, I caught wind that a merchant is lost and we should probably go help him.
Lyse: What does that have to do with our quest?
P. Meepel: I dunno, just it's a lot more interesting than hearing you two argue in circles.
D. Meepel: Plus, a helpless soul like may be in trouble! WE MUST MAKE HASTE TO INSURE NOTHING BAD HAPPENS
P. Meepel: And yeah, what she said.
Meffrid: So...can I help on this mission?
Lyse: Sure.
Meffrid: Yay, I can be important!

*one useless quest later*
Meffrid: Was I important?
Lyse: I...oh look, a former friend of mine!
Youth: YOU'RE A JERK!
Lyse: But...
Youth: LOOK AT US! AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!
P. Meepel: I have no idea what's going on...
D. Meepel: Alas I myself am perplexed...
W. Meepel: Meepel's Head hurts...
Meffrid: Hey, I heard some other guy is in trouble, we should help him!
Lyse: FINE! If it means I don't have to deal with this jerk!

*a quest in a ziggurat later*
Merchant: Thank you, now I need to BRING THESE ILLEGAL OBJECTS OVER QUESTIONABLE TERRITORY!
P. Meepel: This won't go over well, will it?
Lyse: He's going to get himself killed...
D. Meepel: TO RESCUE HIM WE WILL!
Meffrid: Indeed, let's go!

*at the bridge*
Lyse: Are those...Garleans?
Meffrid: Worse, Skulls!
P. Meepel: Are you going to explain what skulls are?
Meffrid: No!

*scene where-in Ala Mhigans who sympathize with Garlea beat up worthless merchant and walk away*
Lyse: That's horrible...
Meffrid: BUt that's the reality.  He's alive, which is lucky for him.
Fordola: I smell something...probably not important, BUT I AM IMPORTANT!
Meffrid: Did I here someone being important!?
Lyse: No, you didn't, let's go back!

*back at the hometown*
Elder: You helped us, thank you, but unfortunately much as we want to help, we simply do not have the man power.  I apologize but we want to, but can't.
Youth: I can.
Elder: WE HAVE NO ONE WHO CAN HELP!
Youth: No, really, I can help you guys.
Elder: MAY THE GODS BE WITH YOU!
Youth: ...yeah, I'm helping you guys.
Lyse: Well, one is better than nothing!

*at Rhalgr's Reach*
Conrad: Well, it seems we have a few more warriors...
P. Meepel: By a few, you mean one...
Conrad: And the empire's forces are dwindled a bit!
W. Meepel: MEEPEL SMASH PUNY SECRET WEAPON!
Conrad: So we can finally make our move, right?
Alisaie: Yes, let's get this battle under way!  We shall plot our next move!
Alphinaud: Plot? Did someone say plot!?
Alisaie: Where...did you come from? How did you get here so fast?
Alphinaud: ...teleporting is a basic magic ability anyone in Eorzea has, sister, why are you surprised?
Alisaie: I dunno, just didn't expect to see you like this.
Alphinaud: Anyway, I brought someone willing to help.
Arevold: I AM AREVOLD! I AM HALF ALA MHIGAN! PLEASURE TO MEET YOU!
Conrad: ...
Alisaie: ...
Lyse: ...
P. Meepel: ...
D. Meepel: SUCH PASSION! SUCH SPIRIT! GLAD TO HAVE YOU ABOARD!
Conrad: So...go tell the Alliance that we're ready to make our move.
Alphinaud: Got it! Let's go tell Raubahn!

*at the Castrum*
Raubahn: Attacking when they least expect it? Ok, sounds good, let's go!

*meanwhile, at Zenos' castle*
Zenos: Ah, the joys of being IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING.  Tell me soldier, what's the status...
Soldier: Well uh...sir...things are as normal...
Zenos: Are you...being useless!?
Soldier: NO sir! By the spikes on your father's spikes I am useful, sir!
Zenos: Ah, good, you are-...wait, are yo mocking my father's fashion sense!?
Soldier: No sir! I did not make fun of the fact that he has too many spikes than should be feasible for someone to wear!
Zenos: That sounds like mockery to me! YOU WILL PAY FOR SUCH INSOLENCE!
*murders soldier*
Fordola: Sir, I have a plan that we can rid the rebels.
Soldier #2: KNOW YOUR PLACE ALA MHIGAN WORM!
Fordola: But sir, I have an ide-...
Soldier #2: YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PAWN FOR US! BE HONORED WE LET YOU FIGHT ALONGSIDE US, DOG!
Zenos: Calm yourself, this "dog" seems to wish to hunt her own kin, I believe she at least deserves to be humored.
Fordola: Sir! My idea is this!
*fade away*

*at the attack site*
Pippin: Excellent, everything is in range!
P. Meepel: Yes, things are looking good.
Alphinaud: If everything goes well, this should be a decisive blow!
Alisaie: Indeed.  I mean, what could go wrong!?
P. Meepel: ...
Alphinaud: ...
Alisaie: Did I say something wrong?
P. Meepel/Alphinaud: THAT'S THE WORST POSSIBLE THING ANYONE CAN SAY!
Alisaie: I don't know what you-...
*explosion in Rhalgr's Reach*
D. Meepel: Alas! We must quit this attack and aide the resistance! THEY WILL NEED OUR HELP!
Alphinaud: Hate to say it, but she's right.

*at Rhalgr's Reach, battle between Resistance and Garleans*
Meffrid: *kills a Garlean* HA! See!? I'M IMPORTANT!
Fordola: Important you say!? WELL SO AM I!
Meffrid: THEN PROVE YOUR IMPORTANCE TO ME!
Fordola: PERHAPS I WILL! ENGARDE!
*Fordola wins*
Meffrid: NO! I'm suppose to be important *dies*
Lyse: MEFFRID! Traitorous scum, you will pay for this!
Fordola: really? And what are you going to do against someone IMPORTANT LIKE ME!
Lyse: Simply.  Punch you in the face! After all, I'm not just important, I'M A MAIN CHARACTER!!
*cue cool fight scene here*

Zenos: Down, woman!  You clearly are not worthy of fighting a MAIN CHARACTER.
Fordola: I...I...
Zenos: Back down, I will handle this!
Lyse: DIE GARLEAN SCUM!
*she punches Zenos, who blocks all her punches with one hand ala a Shonen Anime Villain*
Zenos: My turn! *knocks Lyse down* And now...you die! *goes for killing blow*
Y'shtola: I GOT THIS! *Barrier*
Zenos: Clever...a magic barrier...BUT IT WON'T BE ENOUGH!
*Barrier shatters, Y'shtola slashed*
Lyse: Y'shtola! NO!!!
Zenos: Oh look, I might have killed her!
Lyse: She can't die, not like this!

*meanwhile, at the entrance*
Alphinaud: Krile! What's going on?
Krile: We were attacked, what do you THINK happened?
Alphinaud: Well, I uhh...
Alisaie: Can we just go in and fight them?
P. Meepel: I agree with the female Lleveliar!
Alphinaud: Ok, so our party consists of me, who is an Arcanist and my Obsidian Carbuncle, that's DPS.  Pippin is a Gladiator, that's a tank, Krile is a Conjurer and...Alisaie, what are you?
Alisaie: I have a sword, what do you think I am?
Alphinaud: But you...don't have a shield...
P. Meepel: Look, I'm a tank too, we can do this with 3 tanks instead of a 2nd DPS, so let's just rush in there ok?
*one awesome single player instanced later*
D. Meepel: We have rescued many a fallen ally! Let us press on and defeat our foes further!
Pippin: Someone please translate that for me?
W. Meepel: MEEPEL SMASH PUNY IMPERIALS!
Pippin: ...fair enough.
*team gets to Lyse who is captured, and rescues her*
Lyse: Conrad and Y'shtola need healing, now! THEY'RE GOING TO DIE!
Krile: On it! Alphinaud, get the old guy.
Alphinaud: Right!
Zenos: All these foes were worthless, but perhaps you 3 will be good.
Pippin: Is he referring to us?
Alisaie: I think so...
P. Meepel: So...we have 3 Gladiators against him...does anyone else find this redundant?
Zenos: You must be bad at math, because I only see ONE Gladiator!
P. Meepel: Oh god, not that cliche...
Alisaie: What are you-*is knocked out by one move, Pippin too*
P. Meepel: ...Ok, I can do this, I've beaten Gods and other crazy things before! ...with a full party of 4 or 8...that consisted of varied fighting styles...aaaah crap...
D. Meepel: Fear not, we can do this! We just need to push through with STRENGTH, HONOR AND-...
*explosion that ends the fight*
D. Meepel: ...I did not forsee such a tactic, you win this round, villain!
P. Meepel: Leave the planning to me next time!
D. Meepel: You had given up hope, do not pretend as though your outcome would be any better!
P. Meepel: And thanks to you, we're going to be feeling sore for at least a week!
D. Meepel: BUT AT LEAST I WENT OUT LIKE A MAN!
P. Meepel: ...but...that...I...you...
W. Meepel: QUIET! MEEPELS NOISY AND MAKING ME ANGRY!
P. Meepel/D. Meepel: YES MA'AM!
Zenos: If you're quite done arguing with yourself...
P. Meepel: NEVER!
D. Meepel: HUSH! Let the vile one speak...
Zenos: I have to say...there is no point in continuing this and...why is my sword broken...screw it, I'm going to use that as an excuse to leave, GOOD BYE!
Alisaie: Why did he leave you alive?
Lyse: No! Y'shtola, don't die!
Krile: SHhh! She'll be fine...kind of...look she needs a doctor, I've done all I can.
Alphinaud: Meanwhile, this old guy is fully healed.
Krile: Wait what? I'm the healer and you healed him better?
Alphinaud: Turns out he wasn't actually injured, just fell asleep...in the middle of the battle...not even sure how he did that...
Conrad: Either way, we've lost, but it seems we need a new approach.
Raubahn: Hmm...Zenos controls both this area and Doma...whcih is across the sea.
Alphinaud: AHA! Meepel, do you know what we need to do!?
P. Meepel: ...I get the feeling you're going to tell me anyway... *actual dialog prompt option*
Alphinaud: Why yes, WE SHOULD GO TO DOMA!
P. Meepel: ...why?
Alphinaud: Well, you see, he rules over there and here so...
P. Meepel: ...go on...
Alphinaud: Someone can't be in two places at once...even for someone as perfect as you that's impossible...
P. Meepel: Oh trust me, I'll find a way, just you wait!
D. Meepel: This is not a time for jest!
P. Meepel: ...who said I was joking?
Alphinaud: EIther way, it'll force them to split their forces, and we attack on two fronts!  Of course we'll need a Scion kept back here to watch over Y'shtola and keep things under control.  Someone smart with high healing capabilities, ideally small so they can get around fast...
Krile: ...look, just say it already.  "Krile, can you please stay behind and handle things here?"  It's faster and less patronizing!
Alphinaud: Er...ok, Krile, can you stay here and help out?
Krile: See, that wasn't so hard! And of course I can.
*The above few lines actually happen*
Alphinaud: IN any event, since it's across the sea, TO LIMSA LOMINSA!!!!

*in Limsa Lominsa*
Alisaie: Ok, brother, I get that this is a port town, but let's be real...WE CAN'T TAKE AN AIRSHIP INTO GARLEAN TERRITORY AND WE CANNOT TAKE AN ARMADA SHIP.
Alphinaud: I know, I kind of didn't think that far in advance...
Lyse: Aren't you the brains of the group?
Alphinaud: Hey, I didn't say I didn't have a plan...
Lyse: Well, do you?
Alphinaud: ...not really, BUT TATARU DOES!
Tataru: Yes, I do!  Meet the leader of the Kraken's Arms, Carvallain!
Alisaie: ...he's a pirate...
Carvallain: Yes, yes I am!
Alisaie: ...why are we trusting a pirate?
Carvallain: Because you have no other option!
Alphinaud: Forgive my sister, she can be a little...blunt...at times.  Look, we need your help, can you offer it?
Carvallain: Yes, yes I can, and I have already been compensated.  Please note I can't take you to Doma, just across the sea to Kugane.
Alphinaud: It's a start, let's do it!  We should first ask our Doman allies to come aboard for some guidance of course...
P. Meepel: Wait, does that mean...no, please, don't tell me you need...
Alphinaud: Meepel, please return to the Rising Stones.
P. Meepel/D. Meepel/W. Meepel: NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
*one return later*
D. Meepel: I swear, those words should be considered illegal and justice should be dealt upon anyone who says them as a result!
P. Meepel: I agree.
Alphinaud: Well, let's get going!
Urianger: Hey, I'm in this game, let me do something!
Alphinaud: Er...what do you want to do?
Urianger: I have this cool looking Crystal Rapier for Alisaie.
Alisaie: But I have a cool looking Crystal Sword already!
Urianger: BUt this one is lighter and better suited for you! Let's face it, you're not exactly tanking material.
P. Meepel: Yeah, that's my job!
Uiranger: But this should let you stab things more efficiently, try it out!
Alisaie: ...you neglected to mention the convenient detach-able orb on this that let's me cast magic too...any reason for that?
Urianger: Look just take the rapier and change your fighting style to Red Mage which is how you actually trained.
Alisaie: Right!
Alphinaud: Ok, NOW we can go!

*one boat trip and an overdue filler dungeon later that we don't need to talk about*
Alisaie: Well, here we are.
Lyse: Indeed, but we're still not on the mainland of Othard.
Alphinaud: ok, Pirate, I know you've done what you were paid for, but can you at least answer me a question out of good faith?
Carvalliar: SHoot.
Alphinaud: How would one go about getting to the mainland from here?
Carvalliar: Ask people, you're not the first visitors here trying to get to Doma after all.
Alphinaud: Right, Yuigiri came through here no doubt, let's find details!
Merchant (name eludes me, but he has one): Aha, there you Scions are!
Alphinaud: And who are you?
Merchant: Lolorito sent me.
Alphinaud: GOOD DAY WE ARE LEAVING!
Merchant: Oh COME ON! Are you still upset over the Crystal Braves thing?
Alphinaud: Lolorito is like the single least trustworthy guy ever, I already know this is a bad idea.
Merchant: Can't you at least listen to me?
Alphinaud: Why should I?
Merchant: Because I have important info.  If you come with me, I can tell you...besides, there's spies everywhere.

Faize: And so the Scions end up in Kugane.  Will they join Lolorito?  Will they succeed?  And will Meepel ever get in touch with her Healer side?
P. Meepel/D. Meepel: NO!
Faize: Tune in next time for Stormblood Abridged!

[superaielman]

Luca remains one of the most monstrous, in your face villains there is. I was just pondering if, 70 years into Dunan’s future, will there be plaques in Highland commemorating the death of people of Muse? I feel like the facts of that will get out sooner or later. (And will there be Muse-Ritual-Sacrifice Deniers?)

S3 mentions a revolt in the Highlands. Makes me think the darker path is more likely (Luca lionized like Stalin and Jowy being the villain).  People, especially those who are oppressed, will forgive a lot for someone who is a winner and lead them to success.  Luca was a sadistic killer, but he also was an extremely effective leader who brought the Highlands to the  brink of victory over the city state in a pretty short period of time before his death.

[Fenrir]

Star Ocean 3 (answering El Cid with this post cause writing on PSN makes me want to die)

This has aged really badly, like really really badly.

Issues are:
- plot and dialogue
- AI PCs
- music
- battles. To clarify the game aims for higher technicality than button mashing SO1/2, notably with sidesteps / AAA / energy bar. Fine idea but the rest of the game works against it, there is just often too much 1) shit going on in general 2) sfx 3) stunlocking weird pattern enemies 4) Camera zoom in/ out extravaganza 5) AI PCs ruining your day, for all this to work. I'm playing solo Fayt to compensate but this also makes the game a gankfest
- hausers
- Maps: either you try to 100% maps and have a miserable time, or you don't and end up with the Worst Maps In The World
- 15 max CP? Fuck you
- Item creation is way less fun for no reason
- NPCs furnishing their houses weirdly. Why is a chair blocking the way?
- PCs screaming the name of their moves before using them
- BLAZING........................................
- literally every game has battle trophies now and everybody hates them, sorryyy
- Fayt saying "Oh oh!!" before battles, channeling Mickey Mouse
- Fayt saying "That was fun!" After a life and death fight. What is wrong with you you fucking psycho
- Sophia's jeans
- ........................................ SWORD

The good:
- It's full of ambitious ideas thrown together with no respect for cohesion.
- the plot twist
- the murder of pacific noblemen for no reason
- item creation music

[Dark Holy Elf]

I disagree with quite a number of things there but I will instead reply to

- Fayt saying "That was fun!" After a life and death fight. What is wrong with you you fucking psycho

This one is pretty much bang on. It's not exclusive to Star Ocean by any means, although Tri-Ace does seem to have a thing for it. Even worse is games where you win a battle quickly and the characters are all "how boring, when are we gonna fight some challenging foes?" I'm pretty sure almost nobody would actually think that and anyone who would is seriously mentally ill.

[Hunter Sopko]

Pacific or Pacifistic nobleman? I don't remember murdering Laggy in the game...

[Dark Holy Elf]

Pacific is correct, actually! In fact it's probably a better choice than pacifistic, which... I hesitate to say "isn't a word" because it does occasionally get used, but most style guides would probably tell you not to use it ("pacifist" is already a fine adjective).

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pacific

The ocean is actually named after this word.

[OblivionKnight]

Pacific or Pacifistic nobleman? I don't remember murdering Laggy in the game...

It's DLC

[SnowFire]

Pacific or Pacifistic nobleman? I don't remember murdering Laggy in the game...

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/09/21

[Tide]

This has aged really badly, like really really badly.

Having played through this from speedrunning after multiple years after, I agree. It's kind of amazing how many people would still defend it vehemently as like the best game ever though. It's weird. Not as bad as say OoT, but for a game like SO3, you wouldn't expect there to be as many people being vocal about it.

- battles. To clarify the game aims for higher technicality than button mashing SO1/2, notably with sidesteps / AAA / energy bar. Fine idea but the rest of the game works against it, there is just often too much 1) shit going on in general 2) sfx 3) stunlocking weird pattern enemies 4) Camera zoom in/ out extravaganza 5) AI PCs ruining your day, for all this to work. I'm playing solo Fayt to compensate but this also makes the game a gankfest

The only way I can ever really play it again I think nowadays is to turn everyone on Manual so the AI isn't running around like crazy and there is less crap happening. Also make it more fun by being able to micro everything.

PS: You can set the camera to fix position so it doesn't go all WHOAMG BATTLE SKILLZ when you activate one. Should help with the crazy camera movement.

- Maps: either you try to 100% maps and have a miserable time, or you don't and end up with the Worst Maps In The World

Map completion is also completely bonkers because to get 100% you have to walk into weird corners and generally maneuver Fayt around like a complete idiot. I don't think people move around like that normally. Better yet, when you get 100% maps on some areas, the game drops an item into your lap worth a lot of money! Bad News: It can also slow you down in battle by 50% making everyone move like Maria and Maria move like a sloth.

- 15 max CP? Fuck you

Yeah, this makes no sense. It really gimps the set ups you can do and makes the game less interesting since often times you're stuck to really only using 2 skills despite a wide berth of solution. If you wanted to put a draw back on setting skills, you could have also made a skill that ups CP but costs a support slot or something.

- PCs screaming the name of their moves before using them

Anime man. It is bad.

- literally every game has battle trophies now and everybody hates them, sorryyy

I like how they also cost like 2 Megabytes on your memory card and just ate space. It was innovative at the time for achievements I guess, but then some of the trophies are just bizarre. Like there is one that awards you for spending 2 hours in battle. Not cumulative, but having a fight go on for 2 hours.

On a side note - I don't mind Blazing Sword having a long start up. It gives the move a notable disadvantage, which helps hold it back a bit. In the early game, Blazing Sword is really good and since you learn the skill at level 6 or something. If you are referring to the dialogue, yeah, Fayt announcing his battle skills there sounds really weird due to the long pause. I really wish I had the JP version still so I can play this game without understanding anything.

[Sierra]

Fenrir man just plug a keyboard into the PS4. Messaging problem solved.

I was chipping away at SO3 last week before getting Shanghai'd by FFXIV expansion, and have been having similar thoughts. Probably much less negative in their intensity, but still encountered enough "Why, Tri-Ace, why" moments to reach basically the same conclusion. Combat is a lot floatier than I remembered, regular attacks swing right over low enemies all the time, etc. Also AI PCs getting themselves killed or not healing reliably (it seems like I have to play healer myself to consistently keep everyone alive in a boss fight). The CP ceiling is really the worst idea in the mix, though. If that was at least notably higher, it wouldn't limit the gameplay as much as it does.

It's still basically a fun game? Fayt, Cliff, and Nel mesh really well as a protagonist team and I'll forgive a game a lot for the continuing opportunity to listen to Nel talk. But the privileged position it held since like 2005 as one of Cid's favorite games is definitely dispelled. (This almost makes me afraid to replay Breath of Fire 5, something else I've been meaning to reconnect with for a while.)

[Hunter Sopko]

Pacific is correct, actually! In fact it's probably a better choice than pacifistic, which... I hesitate to say "isn't a word" because it does occasionally get used, but most style guides would probably tell you not to use it ("pacifist" is already a fine adjective).

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pacific

The ocean is actually named after this word.

I am aware. This tends to matter little for making jokes.

EDIT: Though yes I should've gone with Pacifist. Damn.

[LordDirtyBrit]

Shadow of the Colossus: Beaten Malus. Because it's the final boss, it was easily the most nerve-racking fight in the game. This was due to Malus being the tallest of the colossi, which meant that falling off at any point would cause the player to lose quite a bit of progress, and the method of navigating it involves jumping whilst clinging to it's body which was a technique that I hadn't quite mastered by that time. Another factor that adds to the tension of the fight was the atmosphere which the setting created. While a thunderstorm is quite a cliched backdrop for dramatic fights in most works of fiction, here it is used to add to the bleak nature of the fight. As RabbidLuigi described in his 'most depressing bosses' video, even nature itself wants to prevent Wander from committing the crime of murdering every colossi.

As for the game as a whole, it easily deserves the hype it gets from critics and gamers as a whole. Every colossi fight feels unique in terms of design, even the weaker ones such as Basaran can be admired for the ambition the developers had to create an engaging fight. The sections where the player explores the overworld to find the colossi sound dull due to the lack of enemies and sidequests, but they actually allow you to keep on your toes to anticipate the moment when you wake your next opponent and they don't feel as though they pad out game time with dull puzzles or fetch quests. The AI in the game is rather solid for the most part, though Phaedra takes a while to start searching for the player when they are hiding from it. Agro's AI is particularly stellar as she accelerates rather quickly and she'll arrive to your aid almost immediately after you have Wander call her. I suppose Team Ico wanted to make Agro as competent as possible in order to allow the scene when she sacrifices herself to allow Wander to continue finding Malus even more effective.

I also believe that the game is pretty fantastic from a presentation and narrative standpoint. The game's world looks great and has managed to hold up with its realistic visuals much better than the likes of Twilight Princess (who the fuck thought the faces on the likes of Ilia looked passable?), and the soundtrack has several highlights that have become some of my favourite video game songs. The Opened Way, Revived Power and Despair  Filled Farewell are my big favourites from the game right now. The narrative is very minimalistic which works immensely to the game's favour. Only the key plot points are presented to the player and quite a bit of backstory is left to the imagination. For example; the player clearly understands Wander's motivation to revive Mono, but his prior relationship with her is up for debate. Were they lovers? Was she his sister? Did they have darker connections? That's only the beginning of the ambiguous plot points and character motivations in the game. While several important narrative aspects are kept vague, they are clear enough for the player to understand the storyline perfectly and react in the ways which the writers intended.

I've gone quite a bit about the game, but I feel that Team Ico put so much effort into every aspect that I have to give suitable enough credit to them. This has easily become one of my favourite games of all time and I would highly recommend this to anyone who can at the very least tolerate open world titles. As for the other games I have played this week; I'll get round to them next week, I feel I've gone on long enough in this post.

[Cmdr_King]

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia- Finished the maingame.  Knowing that the aftergame is 99% one stupid long dungeon definitely inclines me to not do it, but we'll see.

Highlight notes:

- Dungeons are certainly the weakest part of the game, but aside from teh final dungeon they mostly keep it all short enough to be fairly tolerable.  I do like how the town segments work actually though, helps keep track of quests and makes getting goodies pretty straightforward.
- They did a good job attaching personalities to the original cast, and of fleshing out plot points all over.  There's one big issue, but we'll dig into that later.
- Except when they just straight up added new cast members they were basically the worst ones.  Like dude Faye is just not fun to sit through.  Well, for the PCs, the villain additions... also more below.
- Oh c'mon, you just don't get access to Celica's party between the end of C4 and the final battle?  Not even a chance to promote?  Laaaame.
- As alluded to the final dungeon is not terribly fun, and the final map is like every annoying mechanic (damage tiles, enemies that spawn reinforcements (that spawn reinforcements), Witch teleport spam) from the game tossed on top of what's already a really nasty fight (Final Boss and Big Bad Mage Dude on the same map, final boss has a full MT attack).  I dunno how one beats this game on Classic mode honestly.

Broadly this fits squarely into the middle of the series I think?  Somewhat better than Sacred Stones, but clearly behind Awakening feels right.  Which works out because Sacred Stones clearly pulled way more from Gaiden than most of the games, while the remake was obviously built more or less in Awakening's engine, so it being exactly between its two closest parents makes perfect sense.

Issue the First- There's a massive, massive disconnect between parts of Celica's story.  Like, okay.  She sets off to find Mila, and stops all over the place to help people, because she's that sort of character, but then at the end she falls into a complete funk and sets her mind on sacrificing herself because without the gods the people will surely die.  Like, I feel like there's some missing aspect of the character where she can simultaneously have this intuitive sense that people have a duty to each other and can get through anything together while also believing people are helpless without the gods.  I dunno, I guess it would make sense in a real-world religious context, where Gods are distant and unknowable and may not be there so Faith and that's why religions have built in commandments to help the helpless and all.  But here the gods are physical persons you can go talk to, and either of the Gods don't seem like they'd have that commandment?  I mean, Mila's thing is bountiful lands that require no tilling, so everyone is innately taken care of by pure virtue of living in Zofia, while Duma's all about the self-determination and relying on your own strength to make it in a harsh environment.  It's a weird setting inconsistency that manifests really strongly in Celica's story arc.

Celica's really awesome for that first half or so of the game before then though so I'll allow it.

Issue the Second-   This one's been discussed, but Berkut is a neat idea that gets totally botched in execution.  Like having someone on the opposite side to go on the opposite character arc as Alm is a bit of naunce the game benefits from, but the cast keeps having way more sympathy for him than they should really be willing to grant?  He doesn't really do anything in front of them that's not cacklingly evil.  Alm being kinda distraught over the final battle with him makes some sense, he's been having an awful day and having to sever yet ANOTHER long lost blood relation would really wear on him, but everyone else is just as into it and that's weird.

Funny enough Fernand has a similar arc but works just fine, they do a better job establishing just how long he's known Clive and Clair, and do a fairly good job of limiting sympathy for him from those two (with Alm just kinda feeling bad that he indirectly caused this).  He also realizes he was the asshole without selling his girlfriend's soul to a mad god so there's that.

Loses some steam in the endgame, but real strong up through roughly the end of C3 despite the way the game handles randoms and reinforcements being a bit lame.  7/10.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I dnno, I found Faye pretty amusing (<Faye> "Watch me Alm, watch me~~, I will kill for you if you want~" <Alm> "O... kay, that's weird"). She's like the tired FE trope of the girl who crushes on the main but can't achieve him (Catria, Cordelia) taken to its extreme at which point it rolls over from sad into funny for me. But I'm not gonna fault anyone if a one-note comic character doesn't work for them.

I definitely thought the dungeon in early Alm C4 (Fear Mountain) was too long; it took me well over an hour to clear and that was with animations off. You can probably cut down on the time some by trying harder to avoid randoms but that's extremely risky since an enemy first strike that kills someone = well I guess you've gotta reset. Dungeons are probably less annoying on Casual.


Fire Emblem Echoes - About to fight Jedah for the first time, though obviously not the last. Most people are in their final class now, except for people who I've had trouble gaining levels with (Atlas, archer Grey, Clive, every General).

Zelda 2 - Did a random replay of this. Enjoyable. Still don't know why Zelda went back to the inferior top-down gameplay of 1.

Final Fantasy 5 - It's fiesta time! Doing the new mode, #regpopular, which is basically chaos but with a slight bias towards certain classes? Kind of a pointless gimmick but fiesta is still fun. Got Red Mage/Mystic Knight so far.

[Meeplelard]

FF14 Stormblood: ...yeah, not going to do abridged.  Too much happens and I enjoy it less when I keep focusing on "HOW CAN I ABRIDGE THIS!?" for all that writing for Meepel was fun; I'll keep it isolated to chat moments.

In any event, just finished the Doma arc, so back to Ala Mhigo!  If there's one thing I have to give Stormblood so far, it's that it has the best character work in FF14 thus far.  Heavensward was good, but Stormblood seems to have perfected the style Heavensward established in this regard, having more cinematic scenes and giving more time to a larger cast. 

It also highlights just how much better the ARR and after characters are relative to the pre-established ones from 1.0.  The original Scions are, to be honest, kind of dull.  They basically topped out at "we have...personalities..." Sure Thancred was fun and Yda could be funny but you didn't see them quite enough to have an impact, and then you have useless characters like Minfillia, or a Personalitiless Stoic in Y'shtola, and it really is no surprise that 2.0's Plot just kind of sucked.  2.X shifting to focus more on Alphinaud, introducing Doma for world building (and by extension, Yuigiri), Moenbryda was short lived but well done for that brief stint, what have you, and it only actually started getting GOOD when they started the Heavensward build up stuff late.  It's almost like that plot thrust of "Primals are bad, go stab them in the face!" wasn't exactly a compelling plotline.
Sure enough, Heavensward comes out and oh look, it's NOT "We need you to do X in Y area!" but an actual storyline, one that could easily fit into a solo RPG, and as I've said, the Dragonsong War is basically the best plot stuff FF14 has done (and still is.)

Stormblood's plot isn't quite as good as the Dragonsong War, but it's at least a lot more engaging than "PRIMALS!!!" that was the majority of ARR's plot.  At the same time, as I said, character work so far has just been better.  Alphinaud plays a smaller role, but that's because his character arc is done from HW, and they've done good following up since the character we see here is a lot different than the pretentious, arrogant know-it-all we first met, Alisaie has been a real treat in her comeback, basically being that appropriate Sword-arm second half to Alphinaud's brain, Lyse is a functional protagonist, etc.  The real good stuff kicks in at Doma, though, where Hien in his short time since he's introduced has basically been surprisingly refreshing for that RETURNING SYMBOL OF REBELLION character, in that he took a logical reason WHY he didn't just start the rebellion up again when recuperating.  I think what stands out the most about Hien is despite being literally introduced in the middle of Stormblood, he's done more than basically all of the original Scions of the Seventh Dawn COMBINED Save Yda, who doesn't count because Lyse is basically a whole different character, which really just highlights how useless the original crew was.  It almost feels like Yoshi-P recognized this and has been slowly trimming them away to make way for the newer characters who have universally been better and more fleshed out across the board.

I mean, they COULD give time to the older Scions, but they tried with Y'shtola and Thancred in Heavensward and I think they realized the ways these characters are established, there's really no idea what direction to take them.  Y'shtola basically just has nothing to work with; they gave her one of those "it's a problem because we say it's a problem!" downsides that never actually comes up, so why should we care?  Thancred's case, he had a small character arc in 3.2, but it's over in a single patch, and while he has a fun personality, you can only do so much with that.   From what I can tell, I think the whole situation stems from "Minfillia was the glue that held them together" in a sense, which is a problem because Minfillia may be the deciding factor, but she's also very problem at it's core too:

A useless character who basically just exists to tell you things to do, and whenever something dangerous happens, she tends to Rinoa it up and get into trouble, begging the question of why she's so confident and assured with herself when her track record does not justify it.  It doesn't help that the game Mary Sues her up with the other Scions singing the praises of how good a leader she is, despite how bad she is at the job.

MEANWHILE, in one instance we get a glimpse of Alisaie's creds as a leader by them simply stating she rallied a bunch of NPCs off screen to come and rescue you and Yugiri from an unwinnable scenario, and saves your ass.  When you look at that and see Alisaie being a very capable individual on her own who can fend for herself and think in the moment, there's no question that she could make a competent leader.  Minfillia, meanwhile, sits at her desk, sending people on quests, then gets attacked and her only action is "I Surrender!"