Author Topic: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact  (Read 1014 times)

DragonKnight Zero

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 516
    • View Profile
Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« on: September 16, 2018, 10:09:28 AM »
Though I didn't announce this upfront, this is a double elimination setup.  I'd planned from the beginning that each team get multiple fights and a chance to overcome an unlucky draw.

Winners bracket:

Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

Hassou Tobi banned.  Marcus is FE6 only.

Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)

Losers bracket:  A loss here will result in elimination from later rounds.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

Rena has a Mental Ring.  Sancho has items that work on teammates.


Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

Short form:

Red vs Silver
Brown vs Blond
Blue vs Black
Pink vs Green

Standard voting period of a week.  It's likely to be extended a few hours unannounced though.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 02:58:48 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 07:58:02 PM »
Winners bracket:

Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

Souji can block Fire and Lenneth can halve. Lenneth will kill Millenia and Red team can't really take Souji.


Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)- Well, at the very least with my status scaling, Slow won't hit everyone hit turn 1. But Tidus in a team setting.

Losers bracket:  A loss here will result in elimination from later rounds.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

Large damage difference + Fang can tie someone up well enough.


Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

More healers, more damage

...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 03:16:51 PM »
Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

Hmm.  Can Souji/Yu null both Fire & Physical at once?  Or at least null one & resist the other.  Agate's opening burst is a problem, too...  I think DQ8 explosion is a different element than Fire too, although I have no idea what it'd be SMT equivalent too, which might mean Kaboom and the like can get around immunity (for worse damage).  I think the blitz strategy might work anyway.  Magic Burst + Wild Rage 2-> Dragon's Dive is a ton of damage even with some Fire Resistance thrown in the mix that I think should kill everybody but maybe Souji.  The question is if Souji can solo the fight - which he might very well be able to if he can immediately off Millenia, since Jessica & Agate will have nothing left in the tank after that.  (If he can't status / OHKO Millenia, he gets Spellbinding Eye'd and the team probably figures something out.)

EDIT: I'll buy Tide's Team Silver hype.

Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)
Haste'd Primm statusing out key targets.  Ouch.


Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

Can Magus hard-carry Team Blue?  I don't see ID resistance in Pyro's ToV status accessory list, Zerase can't block it, and Fang can only resist it.  If we arbitrarily say that it tags 2-non-Fang members, it's a fight, since Fang will really need to land some good status on Artea since Rena & Magus have pretty good blockers...  if Yuri lived, he can blow up Rena to stop any revival / status healing train, but that leaves Magus alive.  And if Zerase lived, she can't OHKO anybody and will have her work just be undone by Rena.  So yeah, think Magus takes this one.


Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

Team Pink has real trouble taking out Elincia safely, unless Et has some sort of bow/gun attack in her arsenal somewhere.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 03:58:06 PM by SnowFire »

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1373
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 02:46:21 PM »
Winners bracket:

Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

Couple of different dimensions here. First, if Len1 can get enough Fire Res to soften the opening burst to survivable, then Lenneth wants to be Len1. Note that Souji does have a Persona that nulls Fire and Halves Phys with Helel. So he's always going to be safe from the opening salvo. If Team Red goes for the same strat as before - massive MT damage of death - they will kill everyone but Souji and Len1. At this point, it's pretty much over because Jess/Agate will have blown all their resources. Len1 kills Millenia, then Souji starts Reviving people and/or OCVs. 

If Lenneth can't get enough Fire Res as Len 1, Len2 still makes this possible. Opening Salvo kills everyone but Souji. Souji can then Revive Lenneth. If Millenia SBEs Souji, Lenneth should be able to survive follow up hits from Agate/Jess off hand (since they'd dumped their massive damage resources) and Revive Chris and things just start going south at that point.

Moral of this story: Putting 2 Revivers, 3 mass healers and 3 synergistic godlikes together = lol.


Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnaud (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)

Team Brown can make things pretty irritating for Team Blond, but at the end of the day, there's just too many threats to keep in check. The main argument for Brown lies in Arnaud and Lilka stacking buffs on Elc and having him systematically drain the MP of the vital targets so they can't cast MT death on top of them and slowly grind back from losing the initial footrace. They can sorta get away with this maybe for a round and take out probably one of the threats. But at that point, most likely, Lilka and Towa are both dead. Arnaud can't heal so this creates big big problems. Worse yet, assuming they do take out Primm's MP and Arnaud manages to get Illusion to stick on Tidus, they have no way to handle Alisa. Not only can she *also* revive teammates (so her MP has to go), but when she dies, she'll launch a big MT damage, self revive, then get *all* her MP back. This means, the only way for team Brown to really make any headway is for drain all of Alisa's MP (and leave her as the last target), Illusion Tidus to neuter his physicals and find someway to incapacitate Purim before she starts statusing out key people. All within a single turn. Good try, but no.

Losers bracket:  A loss here will result in elimination from later rounds.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

I think. Team Black's big weakness here is lack of revivers. This means that if any of them go down, they will be down for the count. With Magus' ID, this can cause issues if key people die too early. However, Dhyer/NEB analysis feels right? Outside of Magus, rest of Team Blue isn't that threatening. Rudy is pretty much a non-entity since he's way too slow and Fang can lock someone down once she gets going. Yuri + Zerase will kill any target sans maybe Magus - so they go for Rena and Artea and probably take them both out by Round 1. So at the end of the day, it's pretty much Magus OCV or bust. Don't think I buy that since he has to take out 3 pretty nasty targets. Large part does depend on how you see Magus' ID working. If he takes out Fang AND Zerase at the start for example, Team Black is in deep. But it sounds like it has some targeting issues and Fang being able to resist it should drop the worse case scenario from happening.

Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

Turn order here is something like Emmy > Et > Elincia/Makalov > Jess = Terra > Arche > Clive. Anyway, team Pink is still sort of outclassed here. I don't buy the "Et having a bow" argument. She does have an attack that changes her chakram into a bow, but many of her other attacks are bludgeon type in nature than piercing. Even then, she has to deal with Elincia's evade, so I don't really see it. She probably wants to go after Terra instead since she's Green's sole reviver. When Elincia gets her turn, she'll probably kill off whoever Emmy has attacked (so probably Jess). Terra will probably Petrify someone and since Team Pink has no status healing, this puts them at a near 2 person disadvantage. Even if Jess gets off a Healing Echo, Clive can Gatling to seal this advantage. That's probably game at that point.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 02:28:11 PM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2206
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 03:45:53 PM »
Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

Yeah I can't really see a scenario where Team Silver can't recover from anything Team Red does here, Yu needs to be taken out in the opening salvo and that's just not happening with his level of walling (forget Helel, lolshitsune resisting fire/nulling phys is enough, Hassou Tobi may be out but everything else sanely attainable before the final boss is go), and Team Red holding back on the opening salvo is not an option because Lenneth is going to fucking murder people.

Also god help Team Red if you do see Agate needing that turn to use Wild Rage if Chris can manage to survive Magic Burst somehow because that's really not gonna work out.


Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)

Tidus in a team setting, part 2.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

Pass.


Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

Better.


« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 04:52:03 AM by Random Consonant »

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 11:07:54 PM »
Snowfire, I would say that having Magus be able to ID 2 of the enemy combatants feels extremely generous. If his move was MT he could get two, but it's AoE (and even worse it's AoE surrounding himself. There are scenarios in game where you can't even use the move because there are no enemies in range and CT has no ability for PCs to move into range. Some enemies will wander into and out of range). 1 seems more realistic, and Zerase may resist it (if it's correct that S5 uses Mdef to resist status), as does Fang. Granted, it is possible that Blue would take it anyways if Yuri is the one who is X'ed out. Granted, Yuri could also be arguably faster than Magus to start (for all that I don't really remember ToV well enough beyond that Yuri moved quickly and many of the other PCs were sluggish).

Did Fang have MT damage? If so, Zerase + Fang could also be a nasty combo.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 01:19:13 AM »
I believe S5 actually uses magic, rather than mdef? Not certain.

Fang has GT damage in Blitz and bigger but weaker GT in Ruinga (which is magic, and hence weaker in Fang's hands). Ruinga I'd probably treat as largely MT but I'm less sure about Blitz.

Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

I think the only glimmer of a chance Team Red has relies on a different version of Agate than the one I saw. Also I love how FE6 Marcus is on a posisbly OP team.

Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)

Brown definitely has a few ways to be useful here despite the total nonsense that Tidus teams create but pretty sure this is right.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

Zerase gets a turn for sure which feels really terrible for team blue. Fang silences Rena and presumably Yuri can check Artea in some way (probably by attacking him at the same time as Zerase gets her spell off at worst). That's pretty much that.

Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

Et throws chakrams and such, but that's clearly more Hand Axe than bow to me. Elincia erases Jess and green looks generally more solid otherwise.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

DragonKnight Zero

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 516
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 02:57:34 AM »
Winners bracket:

Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)

Red has a fighting chance though it would require killing off Lenneth with an opening burst and Millenia living long enough to land Spellbinding Eye on Souji.  I don't really see all of this happening but at least they have some hope.  Theoretically possible if Souji takes his action before both Jessica and Agate.

Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1)

Brown has Lilka's Quicken and Arnuad's Slow Down to counteract Tidus' speed shemanigans so they're not completely boned.  They also have a late start to the speed race.  I thought of bringing up Wall as a double-edged sword to block most of brown team's skillset but setting them on fire works too.

Losers bracket:  A loss here will result in elimination from later rounds.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4)

Jumping on the Black Hole hype train, choo choo.  Because it amuses me.  Being area around caster, I'm not often inclined to let Magus choose who to hit but this is one of those times it makes things interesting enough.  Sancho should avoid it regardless due to using a ranged weapon.

Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)

Later

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 03:02:45 AM »
Winners bracket:

Red - Aurora (CoL), Millenia (Grandia 2), Jessica (DQ8), Agate (Trais series)
vs
Silver - Lenneth (VP), Souji (P4), Chris Lightfellow (Suiko3), Marcus (FE6 only)
The opening Salvo takes out Lenneth, Chris, and Marcus, leaving only Souji? Souji probably can full-restore his entire team? Or mass-ID the other team? A couple of options from there surely.

Brown - Lilka (WA2), Elc (Arc the Lad 2), Towa (ToCS), Arnuad (WA4)
vs
Blond - Primm (SoM), Tidus (FFX), Alisa (ToCS), Sonya (Suiko1): Initiative Hastega/Slowga… There is no recovering from that. Especially if Alisa buffs Sonya's M.Atk to high heaven.

Losers bracket:  A loss here will result in elimination from later rounds.

Blue - Rena (SO2), Rudy  (WA1), Artea (Lufia 2), Magus (CT)
vs
Black - Yuri Lowell (ToV), Zerase (Suiko5), Fang (FF13), Sancho (FM4) : I guess Magus and Artea can't off Zerase. After Zerase goes the black team mops up with Fang/Yuri/Sancho KOing folks.

Pink - Jess (MK), Arche (ToP), Et (MK2), Makalov (FE series)
vs
Green - Elincia (FE10), Clive (WA3), Emeralda (XG), Terra(FF6)


Et can't do anything decisive, so Emeralda/Elincia off someone (Jess? Arche? Et?) while Terra can likely off Makalov by herself. Terra can revive and is hard to put down so that ends up being frustrating for team Pink too.

DragonKnight Zero

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 516
    • View Profile
Re: Return of the Hair Tourney: 2nd impact
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2018, 10:21:10 PM »
Results

Red vs Silver
Brown vs Blond
Blue vs Black
Pink vs Green

Blue and Pink have been eliminated.