Register

Author Topic: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike  (Read 1134 times)

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« on: September 28, 2018, 10:25:01 PM »
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) - DL Control.  Summons dragonz, goes fishing.  Not the best at putting away fights on turn 1, but if you let him throw his dragon parade at you, that's a lot of HP to eat through.
Alyssa (Cosmic Star Heroine) - The main character who gets some OP weapons near endgame.  Has a powerful buff, and also has an extreme turn 2 nuke.  Can even equip for status defense at the cost of damage.
Wizard (Bravely Second) - Either initiative OHKO average, or wait until their turn and kill even harder.
Rean (Trails of Cold Steel) - Oddly enough, I don't think Rean's ever been in, maybe because of giant robot interp split, and Delay vulnerability headaches?  Well, he's pretty good either way at least.


Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Ryu vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Ryu vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Ryu vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Ryu vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Ryu vs. Tir (S1)
Ryu vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Ryu vs. Terra (FF6)

Ryu vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Ryu vs. Wakka (FFX)
Ryu vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)


Alyssa L'Salle (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Alyssa vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Alyssa vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Alyssa vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Alyssa vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Alyssa vs. Tir (S1)
Alyssa vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Alyssa vs. Terra (FF6)

Alyssa vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Alyssa vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Alyssa vs. Wakka (FFX)
Alyssa vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)


Wizard (Bravely Second) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Wizard vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Wizard vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Wizard vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Wizard vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Wizard vs. Tir (S1)
Wizard vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Wizard vs. Terra (FF6)

Wizard vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Wizard vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Wizard vs. Wakka (FFX)
Wizard vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)


Rean Schwarzer (Trails of Cold Steel) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Rean vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Rean vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Rean vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Rean vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Rean vs. Tir (S1)
Rean vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Rean vs. Terra (FF6)

Rean vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Rean vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Rean vs. Wakka (FFX)
Rean vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2018, 12:24:11 AM »
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) - sure
Ryu vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Ryu vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4) - Doesn't look like Ryu can skip the Bewildering Fog phase even with my level of eyeball disrespect, but in all honesty he should be able to get it low enough with some chipping that he only sees one, eyeball may have better offense than Apocrypha but not so much better that he hoses Kaiserbreath fast enough and he has something like half the HP.
Ryu vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Ryu vs. Tir (S1)
Ryu vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Ryu vs. Terra (FF6)
Ryu vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Ryu vs. Wakka (FFX)
Ryu vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel) - He can spoil her BS?  Huh, cool.

Rean Schwarzer (Trails of Cold Steel) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) - Too much durability I think.
Rean vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3) - Tide's probably right here.
Rean vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4) - Yeah I probably don't see bosses as being 100% delay vulnerable by default but at the same time I don't respect the eyeball nearly as much as the stat topic does.  That said eyeball has a bit too much HP for Rean to do the whole Valimar thing and with the level of delay resistance that I think I do see bosses typically having... means this fight is probably the eyeball's even if Rean stacks Impede.  So it goes.
Rean vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default) - Probably beats out DK's first turn and does the whole Valimar thing.
Rean vs. Tir (S1) - Faster.
Rean vs. Orlandu (FFT) - Yeah nuking Rean's EP and having the the shield evasion screw up his delay game and then breaking his weapon works well enough I think.
Rean vs. Terra (FF6) - I am really unsure about this but the fact that Terra can't do anything decisive here (Break is blocked and she doesn't OHKO) if she gets a turn doesn't really help her case.
Rean vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4) - Doubleturns right off the bat and 2HKOs with Stone Bullet, Miscreation durability is fairly bad but not bad enough to get OHKO'd by a 100 CP Termination Slash with no buffs (now then, if we were talking about the likes of Jeremy on the other hand...).
Rean vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn) - Not sure how much Valimar helps here considering how much CP it eats and that it's just as evadeable as anything else that's not an S-Craft, to be honest.  At least the delay game avoids counters but that evade is gonna trip him up at the wrong time and get him murdered (and it's not like I've seen any actual evidence of MT in FE10 being ITE, sure Onagers have a base 255 hit rate and the final bosses all have ridiculously high accuracy that any chance of dodging unrealistic, but that's not the same thing).
Rean vs. Wakka (FFX) - Kneejerk says E&C isn't really helping out here, no.
Rean vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel) - Kneejerk that in the match of two incredibly bullshit Trails PCs, Alisa's bullshit is a bit better at dealing with Rean's than the other way around.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 04:13:40 AM by Random Consonant »

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2018, 03:19:27 AM »
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Ryu vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Ryu vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4): Too tanky?
Ryu vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default): I think he can get to go first if he needs to?

Ryu vs. Empyrea (DQ8): She's fast and KO's first?
Ryu vs. Tir (S1)
Ryu vs. Orlandu (FFT): Can negate MP damage? Kaiserbreath.
Ryu vs. Terra (FF6)

Ryu vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4): Elemental def.
Ryu vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Ryu vs. Wakka (FFX): Mocking status.
Ryu vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel): Kaiserbr?rescue?


Alyssa L'Salle (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Alyssa vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Alyssa vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Alyssa vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Alyssa vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Alyssa vs. Tir (S1)
Alyssa vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Alyssa vs. Terra (FF6)

Alyssa vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Alyssa vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn): Proc's a fatal strike?
Alyssa vs. Wakka (FFX): Can negate status which leaves Wakka kinda boned.
Alyssa vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel): Alisa takes too much to go down.


Wizard (Bravely Second) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia): Not pretty.
Wizard vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3): Also not pretty.
Wizard vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4): Still not pretty.
Wizard vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default): Absorb Magic.

Wizard vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Wizard vs. Tir (S1): I think his magic durability is good enough.
Wizard vs. Orlandu (FFT): Aegis shield too.
Wizard vs. Terra (FF6)

Wizard vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4): WA4 boss durability?
Wizard vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn): Initiative elemental weakness.
Wizard vs. Wakka (FFX): Initiative OHKO before the status.
Wizard vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel): Might score a kill, not 3.


Rean Schwarzer (Trails of Cold Steel) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Rean vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Rean vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4): Can't say I feel too bad about the eyeball getting cheesed.
Rean vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Rean vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Rean vs. Tir (S1): Not having a casting time makes it faster turn 1?
Rean vs. Orlandu (FFT): Goes first, wrecks something important.
Rean vs. Terra (FF6): Can he slam enough damage through her pdur/evade? I think probably, though her getting a turn recovers her HP.

Rean vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Rean vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn): The Gundam might be better here since Nailah has great evade?
Rean vs. Wakka (FFX): E&C isn't helpful here.
Rean vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel): Better BS.

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1374
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2018, 03:46:02 AM »
Rean vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) - Later
Rean vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3) - Rean outspeeds, calls Valimar and squashes. Too bad cause Gilbert actually has Delay resistance so if he didn't get owned by a giant gundam crushing his face in, it might be relevant!
Rean vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4) - *checks* OK has Ameno listed as having 20% evade. I'm not sure if that's right because I certainly don't remember it evading *at all*. So Infinite Delay Turn works should net out win here.
Rean vs. Empyrea (DQ8) - Infinite Delay Turn works part 2. Empryea has only 113% speed (and that's if you take the speed literally in CTB and don't factor in  DQ8 Speed wonkiness...) and no notable evade, so Rean Delay locks her to death here.
Rean vs. Orlandu (FFT) - Orlandu outspeeds and opens with Dark Sword, draining all if not *most* of Rean's MP. This leaves him pretty much impotent on winning. Most likely, Orlandu would have drained more than 50% of his MP, which means he can't summon Valimar  and sapped a significant chunk so he can't Delay loop.
Rean vs. Terra (FF6) - Think this is a case of "Valimar smash" on kneejerk. If Terra can survive, Rean probably wants to start his Delay game, but 37% evade might give him some headaches. And he doesn't like Terra getting Turns cause Drain really sucks for Rean. Could be argued.
Rean vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4) - THIS on the otherhand, lol. Instant double turn with high 2HKO Earth damage that Rean can't resist. GG.
Rean vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn) - Pinning down how the evade works is important for the next two fights. If you see AoE as evadeable, Rean has a problem. AFAIK, none of his crafts are ITE (Dhyer/Pyro can correct me if I'm wrong or test for this). This means that even if  he is in Valimar, he will probably end up missing a hit - which he  probably needs here because Nailah has solid defenses. The good news for him is that I probably don't see AoE being caught by FE evade - at least not FE10 evade. There are some examples in game where AoE exists  (Boulders/Catapults/Ashura's wave attack thingy) and you are clearly going to get nailed by the attack as long as you are in the way. So, he should manage this.
Rean vs. Wakka (FFX) - See above,  except I think in this case, it's more clear. E&C doesn't catch GT/MT type attacks, so Rean outspeeds, then Gundams Wakka's face in. Good thing too, or he'll bust his nuts.
Rean vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel) - Rean goes first, but can't capitalize. Alisa equips Delay/ID blocker and that pretty much shuts down his tricks. Opening with Valimar isn't an option because Alisa's has 2 lifebars and since any overkill doesn't spill over, he will run out of turns in Valimar before Alisa dies. Alisa, meanwhile, just brute forces with standard slugging.

Rean: 6-3, with a couple of matches that hinges on interpreting Evade. He's good at what he does, but definitely spoilable and not as strong as Alisa despite his options. Going off at  117% average speed and having two avenues to win makes him quite versatile, although all of it subject to evade.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 03:47:56 AM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2018, 07:43:38 AM »
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Ryu vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Ryu vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)- Not only a tank (although a good chunk of that is defense), but...damage immunity for 3 turns is Ryu wasting a lot of MP + almighty damage to reduce Kaiserbreath
Ryu vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)- Lacking respect for cast-wide options to maximize speed
Ryu vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Ryu vs. Tir (S1)
Ryu vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Ryu vs. Terra (FF6)
Ryu vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Ryu vs. Wakka (FFX)
Ryu vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)- Alisa wins with the old BoF 4 topic where Ryu can't OHKO her!


Alyssa L'Salle (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Alyssa vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)- Desperation nets her this one
Alyssa vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)- Ameno-Sagiri...actually just lacks enough HP for this by a hair, I think. ITD nature gets past a good chunk of Ameno's durability.
Alyssa vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Alyssa vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Alyssa vs. Tir (S1)
Alyssa vs. Orlandu (FFT)- While Alyssa can deal with fast 2HKOs, she can't deal with them if they 3-2 her
Alyssa vs. Terra (FF6)- Break is turn 3 to me
Alyssa vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Alyssa vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Alyssa vs. Wakka (FFX)- Even for most people who don't disrespect Wakka's status like me (only Silence is turn 1), Excalibo shines in a match like this.
Alyssa vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)


Wizard (Bravely Second) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Wizard vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)- I do see Gilbert as having sufficient HP to avoid the initiative OHKO and Wizard is slower if not using initiaitive.
Wizard vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Wizard vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Wizard vs. Empyrea (DQ8)- Just enough HP to live
Wizard vs. Tir (S1)- Enough Mdur to get a turn
Wizard vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Wizard vs. Terra (FF6)
Wizard vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Wizard vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)- Fire weakness
Wizard vs. Wakka (FFX)
Wizard vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)


Rean Schwarzer (Trails of Cold Steel) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Rean vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Rean vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)- Is there any reason to think Ameno-sagiri woudl be 100% susceptible to Delay. Given that most CS 2 bosses in game have 90% resistance, it's hard for me to imagine that an endgame boss would be fully susceptible withaesonecific reason.
Rean vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Rean vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Rean vs. Tir (S1)
Rean vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Rean vs. Terra (FF6)- Although it is depending on dice rolls. Not respecting Stone + not seeing Terra OHKO helps a lot.
Rean vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Rean vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)- Nailah doesn't have enough relative evasion, especially considering that Fire weakness.
Rean vs. Wakka (FFX)
Rean vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)

Ryu 7-5 (Doesn't deal well with super high durability)
Rean 5-7 (Doesn't deal well with moderate durability)
Alyssa 5-7 (Can't deal with faster OHKOs)
Wizard 4-8 (Wants a bit more ITD damage)

Good field since it seemed like only Apocrypha swept everyone. Ryu is a little cut above once I remember that the BoF 4 damage curve has decreased a bit.
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 09:03:10 AM »
Dhyer: I suspect that local game respect would cause a vastly varying guess at where their delay resistance should be taken in games that don't have Delay.  P4 bosses just eat Debilitate with no resistance to it, while Cold Steel bosses often decently resist stat-downs..  certainly reason to respect P4 bosses less than CS ones.  (Not to mention that in practice with non-DL-legal stuff, CS bosses have even worse Delay resistance.)


Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Actually not so sure here.  It's gonna take Ryu awhile to slug down all the forms, but it's gonna take Apoc awhile to eat through Ryu's AP, and he can presumably Kaiserbreath down the first two forms while status immune, then use his remaining AP on one last dragon to finish things.  Maybe.
EDIT: I'll buy Elf.
Ryu vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
I guess people see Gilbert as below average speed?  Hard to tell from the topic.  If so, one Dragon form has a bad day, but then Gilbert has blown his stock.  (I'd add that SP Lowering, since it hits the resource used by fusions in SH3, might arguably mess with dragon form maintenance, but it barely matters.)
Ryu vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Blow'd up.

Ryu vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Turn 1 KO, barely.
Ryu vs. Tir (S1)
Ryu vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Ryu vs. Terra (FF6)

Ryu vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Nailah has worse than average threat range I assume?
EDIT: nah, was just thrown by the Ryu votes.  Switched.
Ryu vs. Wakka (FFX)
Ryu vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)
Yeah, Alisa has trouble when she's getting constantly OHKOd.  She probably does file off a reasonable amount of Kaiser's healthbar but not enough.


Alyssa L'Salle (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Has to run Excalibo, is at best heal-locked on some Heroine Aura / First Aid / Rally loop forever and never gets in damage.
Alyssa vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Desperation.
Alyssa vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)
Desperation + poke, even non-Hyper'd Data Storm should dot he trick after DK beats himself up some.  DK can try and slow roll with Life & Death, but I dunno if that goes anywhere.

Alyssa vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Alyssa vs. Tir (S1)
Unlike these two cases, where Desperation doesn't really help.
Alyssa vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Alyssa vs. Terra (FF6)
Cunning is high enough to drive Break to turn 2?

Alyssa vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Yeah, WA4 boss durability, but non-Hyper damage turns are really uninspiring.
Alyssa vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
Gambles everything on Data Storm hitting, but if it does...
EDIT: Nm, will respect FE movement > CSH Sparke.
Alyssa vs. Wakka (FFX)
Excalibo.
Alyssa vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)
What a nice hyper turn that was.  How would you like your Altair Cannon?


Rean Schwarzer (Trails of Cold Steel) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Rean vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3)
Rean vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default)

Rean vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Empyrea is the kind of boss I'd see having okay Delay resistance, but Valimar's damage is the kind of thing I'd see as good at cutting through Empy's defenses - her HP isn't that special, just she has good Def & elemental resistances, exactly what doesn't matter vs. Valimar in-game.  A close one....  really comes down to respecting Valimar vs. respecting Empy's good in-game physical defense.  Will kneejerk that Valimar doesn't quite make it, but could be argued.
Rean vs. Tir (S1)
Rean vs. Orlandu (FFT)
Rean vs. Terra (FF6)

Rean vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4)
Rean vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn)
The Delay numbers are so busted that I think Rean can afford to miss the occasional Arc Slash and be fine, but Nailah's evade is better than "occasional".
Rean vs. Wakka (FFX)
Rean vs. Alisa R. (Trails of Cold Steel)
Delay immunity, and getting stomped by a giant robot hurts less than you'd think.

Ryu: 7-4
Alyssa: 4-7
Rean: 4-7
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 04:00:31 AM by SnowFire »

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 03:40:50 PM »
P4 stat downs aren't resistable by anything at all ingame (not even with all the bullshit Yu has at his disposal), and there's nothing about them that leads one to believe the game considers them to be anywhere near similar enough to status ailments to use that as justification for anything else in that regard, so as far as I'm concerned that argument's less relevent as P4 boss's crit immunity in this situation (and that's only relevent because otherwise there'd be a slim chance to knock him down.).  Never mind the fact that CS2 bosses often have plenty of minor status holes which bosses from other games (such as P4!) lack completely and I'd certainly take issue with such bosses being seen as -more- vulnerable to anything handled the same way as status without good reason, and if anything, the fact that you openly can't get extra turns against the eyeball despite the system allowing for such things makes me severely disinclined to believe that there is one.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:21:15 PM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 02:30:41 AM »
Ryu (Breath of Fire IV) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia): Probably? Ryu gets off seven Kaiserbreaths before running out of MP and Apoc can't chew through his HP fast enough to weaken those. That's like 9PCHP minus some % as he loses health, way more than Apoc's 4-5 PCHP.
Ryu vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3): Gilbert's speed is hard to pin down for sure. Whoever goes first wins. I guess that's Ryu on average.
Ryu vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default): lolno at letting Ryu of the #4 out of 6 speed outspeed Dark Knight due to castwide shenanigans.

Ryu vs. Empyrea (DQ8): Ryu ended up a lot less physically tanky than I expected. I guess Cray/Ershin do that though.
Ryu vs. Tir (S1): Quickdraws: what's for dinner.
Ryu vs. Orlandu (FFT): Hmm yeah Mist Armour can barely tank a damage-optimised Cid hit while reducing MP damage
Ryu vs. Terra (FF6): Faster.

Ryu vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4): Miscreation is extremely close to an instant triple and he 3HKOs against Ryu's earth res. But... probably not quite there.
Ryu vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn): Chomp chomp. Yeah 113 pdur not cutting it.
Ryu vs. Wakka (FFX): Block sleep, go to town.


Alyssa L'Salle (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia): Probably.
Alyssa vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3): Speed coinflip again.
Alyssa vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default): DK can hit Alyssa three times for the kill, and be at 40% HP, and throw in Absorb Magic. Alyssa can't really do much there I wouldn't think.

Alyssa vs. Empyrea (DQ8): KOs and survives.
Alyssa vs. Tir (S1): As above.
Alyssa vs. Orlandu (FFT): Er... probably? He can break her weapon but that doesn't help that much... Dhyer, why would a 3-2 matter? Desperation is "survive until your next turn" unless I'm misremembering.
Alyssa vs. Terra (FF6): No break these days.

Alyssa vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4): Yep.
Alyssa vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn): Chomp chomp part 2. 10 threat range is pretty clearly above average, only bow paladins and Tibarn beat that.
Alyssa vs. Wakka (FFX): Sleep Buster. Don't see anything remotely sleep-like on CSH's status list.
Wizard (Bravely Second) vs. Apocrypha (Radiant Historia): Not Wizard's type of fight at all.
Wizard vs. Gilbert (Shadow Hearts 3): I definitely see the initiative damage as enough, especially since Wizard can use light to hit Gilbert's weakness.
Wizard vs. Dark Knight (Bravely Default): Absorb Magic claims another victim.


Wizard vs. Empyrea (DQ8): More or less a coinflip on Empyrea's HP here I think. My initial kneejerk was Wizard but looking at the numbers I may have been selling Empy's HP short a bit. It's hard to say since the stat topic doesn't incorporate tension (as well as Call Team's functionally free damage). Still, after scaling it looks like she should have over half of Dhoulmagus/Leopold and I always pegged both above 2PCHP so...
Wizard vs. Tir (S1): Elemental defence to the rescue.
Wizard vs. Orlandu (FFT): Aegis Shield gets him past the Dart blitz.
Wizard vs. Terra (FF6): Halves all elements.

Wizard vs. Miscreation (Wild Arms 4): I see Miscreation beating out Wizard's for first turn (295% CTB speed > infinite TB speed), but that's not enough, Dart comes after that and kills. (Horrendously so in fact, I see Miscreation as weak to wind.)
Wizard vs. Nailah (FE Radiant Dawn): Should survive two Fire Darts, the other two miss.
Wizard vs. Wakka (FFX): Initiative KO.

Ryu 6-4
Wizard 4-6
Alyssa 3-7
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 06:13:16 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 02:43:22 AM »
Dhyer: I suspect that local game respect would cause a vastly varying guess at where their delay resistance should be taken in games that don't have Delay.  P4 bosses just eat Debilitate with no resistance to it, while Cold Steel bosses often decently resist stat-downs..  certainly reason to respect P4 bosses less than CS ones.  (Not to mention that in practice with non-DL-legal stuff, CS bosses have even worse Delay resistance.)

Hmm, while I can see this argument, it's a little hard for me to equate an effectively far more fatal/debilitating effect to stat downs (which are good, but not "lock enemies down so they get no turns good"). Even with maximum twinking on Raven, CS bosses still have over 50% res generally (since they seemed to have 90% resistance to start, so 5 stacked Delay items still isn't turn 1).

On Gilbert, I think SH 3 bosses are slightly slower their first turn, right?
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 03:18:03 AM »
They are from what I can tell, yes, similar to FFX. Not sure how much. Gilbert definitely can roll well enough to go first, but also last. The listed stat is slightly above average, but I suspect it's a bit below in practice.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1374
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 03:58:35 AM »
Gilbert's initiative is pretty solid as an off hand guess. I wager he probably goes first 50/50 against you and usually is 2nd in cue when he isn't 1st. Granted, that's against a party of Level 33s against him, so YMMV.
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds: New Blood in Godlike
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2018, 03:58:10 AM »
Dhyer / Random: Yeah, fair enough.  I was also thinking a bit holistically in the sense of "use this ability and make a boss suck!"  Figuring out what Delay resistance value to use, and whether a boss deserves the 10% vuln or the 20% vuln or even higher, is probably more art than science.  For me, Empyrea is hard to cheese so might get the benefit of good delay resist, while P4 bosses seem more vulnerable to various in-game cheeze.

Elf: Hmm...  I suppose thinking about it more, the CSH Sparke values really are a tiebreaker of last resort, since they only matter for inter-party order.  Fire Emblem movement is more impactful, so sure, I can see Nailah going first and knocking Alyssa into fatal before she takes her turn 1.  Also, sure, I suppose it takes awhile for Apocrypha to wear down Ryu's first dragon, so by the time Kaiserbreath is out of juice, any random dragon can finish the job afterward before the AP runs dry.

Tide: That sounds like a great argument to kneejerk Gilbert as losing tiebreaks at "DL" levels, yeah. :)