Author Topic: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade  (Read 38232 times)

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #200 on: September 16, 2020, 07:29:41 AM »
Tales of Berseria - Why do birds fly?

To ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD, then ground him for a literal eternity, apparently.

It's not a pleasant game to say the least, but it is one that I did enjoy in many respects, possibly enough to push it past the 8/10 barrier and into 9.  Playing it on the heels of Vesperia was also kind of interesting but that's something of another topic.

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #201 on: September 16, 2020, 03:58:11 PM »
Children of Morta - A very fun rogue-lite dungeon crawler game. Kinda diablo-ish gameplay, I guess? The storytelling is all done by a narrator, but all the characters have a lot of personality anyway. I'm at the...has to be endgame rn, if there's something behind the boss I'm at I'll be shocked.

The seven characters you can play as are all fairly different and it's hard to call any of them actually worse than the others(except Mark) since there's been bosses and floors that even the ones I would normally consider the "best" deal worse with than...honestly even Mark. He just has a larger amount of situations he's not great in, really.

To break things down a bit, my character ratings(and please keep in mind the gap between 1st and 6th is very small)

1st - Lucy. Lucy is one of the two characters with long range damage and hers becomes much stronger than Linda's as you let it build up. The thing is, Lucy can't move while attacking! This is in fact a downside and the reason Lucy has some bosses she's just the wrooooong pick for. But the speed of her fireballs increases the longer you fire, and she starts spraying off more and more "sidewinders" which are little mini-fireballs that vaguely go where you're shooting and do less damage. They still inflict tiny amounts of hit stun though. And at the speed she fires...well. Lucy's two special attacks are her Tornado(which sucks in enemies and pins them down for a bit) and her Doppleganger(which is a decoy that enemies will attack instead of her). Both very strong! But the thing that puts her at the clear #1 spot is her passive which gives her little shields which null attacks. When capped out, that skill gives her 3 tiny shields which will nullify attacks that hit her, and if she hasn't been hit for 8 seconds she will regen 1 shield(up to 3, ofc).
Lucy's Rage mode does allow her to move while shooting for a bit...as her shots turn into a giant fuck off laser. It's not as damaging as you might think, but it is great for letting her escape.

2nd - Linda. The other ranged damage character, an archer to her little sister's mage. Act shocked, the ability to hit shit from across the screen is Good Actually. Linda can fire while moving, but it drains from her stamina bar(which will build back up as she either doesn't shoot or doesn't move for a bit). Her damage at base is better than Lucy's and she also gains more damage as she stands still and fires from a passive skill, but Lucy's will build up to higher levels as the speed goes. Linda's two skills are the Explosive Crescendo, an arrow that homes in on where some enemies are and creates an explosion, and Harmonic Slam, which stuns the enemies immediately around her for a second. Crescendo is very very good, since it can hit enemies you can't normally hit(hard corners, etc) and some area boom is great for thinning things out. Harmonic Slam...I dunno. When surrounded with Linda I typically hit the dodge button to create distance before I remember to welcome my enemies to the Jam.
Linda's Rage mode gives her infinite stamina for a short period and MASSIVELY increases her rate of fire. This is one of the strongest rage modes for sheer "Get. Out." factor. It's not as good as some others in hallways, but she'll make a boss ablate a third of their HP bar in record time with it.

3rd - John. So John is the patriarch of the Bergson family, and is the classic sword & board hero. He's slow, the only character who has only a single dodge bar, and his damage is on the low side. So why is he in at #3? Two reasons. First, that fucking shield. He can just raise the shield to block and it will stop most projectiles cold, and enemies that hit his shield in melee will take damage from the impact! He can still be hit by some attacks, and using the shield does drain his stamina(and you have to have your facing right! You block from the FRONT only.) but it's a strong mechanic. I was bad at it for awhile but once I put in the effort to get gud, John became a slowly advancing wall that would just smoosh enemies into the dirt. Second is his skill Heaven's Strike. This is the best button in the game, full stop. Hits multiple enemies, homes in on ones close to you, each sword has a bit of explosion damage around it, it's just the best crowd clearer in the game. Also can fire around hard corners because fuck you that's why. His other button is the Shield Slam(which replaces Heaven's Strike while you have the shield up!), which is basically just a better version of Linda's Harmonic Slam.
John's Rage mode doesn't really do much. Just makes him immune all damage for a few seconds and deal retaliation damage to any enemy that hits him while he's using it. Wait did I say not much I meant it's also the best Rage mode in the game.

4th - Kevin. Kevin is weird in that when he's the best option he is THE BEST OPTION and when he's not...well, he's squishy and also a melee character who uses knives so has a very short attack range. He's Linda's younger brother(and thus Lucy's older), and the little story arc he gets before you gain him as a playable character is great imo. So Kevin's whole deal is that instead of a stamina bar like Linda/Jon/Joey or a mana bar like Lucy/Apan, he has a momentum bar. As he attacks, his attacks get faster, and you can level up a passive skill to let him keep this going longer. He also has the highest crit rate and I believe bonus crit damage? Basically once he gets going he becomes a blender and the dungeon is now a juice bar. Buuuuut he's still short range and has no hard defenses like John or Lucy. He is the only character with three dodge bars, and that's good! But he still has to get back in there to do the killing. His buttons are Fan of Knives(whips throwing knives in every direction. Pretty okay) and Cloak of Shadows(enemies can't target him for a bit!). While in Cloak, he also learns two other skills: Execute(huge damage single swing with ID chance) and Shadow Dance(hits a bunch of enemies? I dunno it's not good).
Kevin's Rage mode sends his attack speed even higher and it seeeems like it also increases his crit rate further? The game just says "Sends Kevin into the Ultimate Frenzy!" which thanks real helpful game. Basically it makes Kevin even more Kevin-y.

5th - Joey. So to preface this, Joey is honestly better in most hallways than Kevin is. He has a hammer and everything looks like a nail, he has huge reach on his melee swings and is a giant sack of HP. That is basically the long and short of it. Most of his power comes from a couple passives he has. One gives him a damage boost on his next attack whenever he takes a hit. One increases his damage and move speed when low on hp. One increases his damage based on how many enemies are hit by his attack. You get the picture. His other big claim to fame is that his dodge deals damage to enemies and kinda pushes them. Joey is a big boy and he can move anything smaller than him whether it wants to move or not. Most things are smaller than him. Hit buttons are Smite(a hammer attack on the ground that damages enemies in front) and Whirlwind(spin2win except not much winning tbh it's pretty weak). Smite gets an upgrade to Divine Smite which when you hold the button before releasing it will send out a GIANT ENERGY WAVE on impact which is the second best button in the game after Heaven's Strike.
Joey's rage mode continues the Big Boy tactics and he now does contact damage to the enemies instead of the other way around. Another move that's good at clearing hallways.

???th - Apan. So I have no idea where she fits, to be quite frank. Apan has a staff that she swings and hits with this super weak fan of energy from...but it has some pushback which is nice, and covers the most area by far of any normal attack. Her Thunderclap button damages and slows enemies in a cone in front of her and she has a passive that gives her bonus damage to slowed enemies! But even with that her damage is the worst in the game by miles. But she can fight from a reasonably safe range, and her dodge also slows enemies near her when she does it, so she has good escapes. The biggest issue is that her second button, Magic Glyph, is...bad. She makes a big field on the ground that hits all enemies around her a bunch and she can't move while using it! And the damage is...much lower per hit than even her(already worst in the game, remember) basic physical. And it drains her mana super fast! I just don't know what to make of her. Playing Apan feels like an exercise in "Okay everything is under contr...NOTHING IS UNDER CONTROL!" until you somehow extricate yourself from whatever the fuck just happened and now you have everything under control again.
Apan's Rage mode gives her a big shield bar which takes hits instead of her HP for awhile. Which would be amazing if it didn't disappear fairly quickly even if it hasn't taken that many hits and if John's "literally invulnerable also I hurt YOU when you hit me instead" wasn't right there.

7th - Mark. Ooookay. So I love Mark, let's get that out of the way right here. He's a cool dude and deserves better than he got. He's the punch-dude, and he has some awesome passives so lets talk about what he has going for him first. His main deal is his Atman Barrier, a bar(what he has instead of Stamina/Mana) that fills up as he punches things and that gives him Armor. His armor gained from the barrier reduces damage he takes, based on the strength of the barrier(it is a skill to put levels in, etc) and taking hits will deplete the bar. You can keep it going fairly well by punching more often than you get punched. Also he gets another passive that increases his damage as his Atman Barrier gauge fills as well, which...until you get this going he's just god awful, I'm not gonna lie. He has 2 dodge bars like most characters, but gets a skill that lets him spend the second one while in the middle of the first to cancel his dodge into an area attack around him. Very strong move!
Okay, so all that said...why does he suck? Well, apparently punching dudes is very hard and not accurate at all. See, Mark has the worst attack reach(fair, he's punching) and makes up for it with the ability to dash in to hit enemies when he's close enough! But...you don't control the dashing. He'll target an enemy, which you can see as a red circle around the enemy he's currently homed in on, and when you attack he'll dash in and hit that enemy! And...how the game decides who is targeted is pure magic. And if your facing has gotten a bit weird, like say in the middle of a giant clusterfuck, Mark likes to not actually home in on any of the enemies that are slightly off to the sides and currently stabbing him but instead punch thin air. Every other character you can just hold down the attack button to go ham with and adjust your facing as needed. Even with Lucy you can change your angle of shots without stopping the barrage! But with Mark you have to let go of attack and reorient yourself. In the middle of melee. With the shortest reach character. He suffers from extreme jank, I'm sad to say.
Also his two buttons are...okay at best. Scourging Whip does negligible damage but pulls all enemies hit in and gathers them up in one spot, stunned, for a moment for Mark to wail on. Solid! But still janky since which enemies get caught in it is a frikkin' mystery sometimes. Also ones that just decide to immune stun for some reason, well they're now right in front of you and it may or may not have interrupted any attack animation they were in the middle of. Swirling Staff is the exact opposite. Instead of pulling enemies in, it knocks them away. Well, not the EXACT opposite, it still does negligible damage. Can't have the dude with 0 attack reach or range on his normal attacks having any reliable way to damage multiple enemies at once.
Mark's Rage mode...is my least favorite in the game. It turns his basic physical into the Punch of Concentration, which is a cone shaped area in front of him that is roughly the size of Apan's physical but much higher damage. Sounds good, yeah? Except that it's slower than his normal swings, he no longer moves at all or has the targeting circle, and being a cone it doesn't hit enemies that are approaching you from a slight angle well. And being Mark, he's gonna be in the middle of everything most of the time. It's...the opposite of Kevin. Kevin's Rage makes him More Kevin. Mark's makes him a different character for a bit.

Anyway, this has been my breakdown of the characters. I love the game and enjoy playing as all the characters(even Apan and Mark) and think the story is very well presented. Play it!
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Dhyerwolf

  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #202 on: September 19, 2020, 04:08:59 AM »
Trails in the Sky 3rd: Up to Chapter 4. This is very good. I'm a sucker for a well-done vignette structuring, and both Tita and Kloe's doors were quite good. The bosses have been very solid for so far (not overly damaging, but with interesting enough variety/durability). Hopefully no more versions of the enemy that explodes enough being killed with a ~30% chance of inflicting ID  because that was painful.

Cthulhu Saves the World- Beat this. Worst Zeborg game by far because it was basically BoD 7 remixed, but even worse on the endless trash mobs. The conceit of how the random battles basically becomes completely pointless because of this. Probably should have scaled back on the auto-healing after battle.
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #203 on: September 21, 2020, 07:12:54 PM »
Yay Brig! Glad you're enjoying it.

Also if you have a Switch, y'know what I'm going to recommend. It's been too long since I've nerded over FE with you.

Hey, guess what I just started!

Fire Emblem Three Houses - So yeah, it's been ages since I played a FE game and this honestly cannot stand. So, just started my first playthrough - Black Eagles, Hard Classic. Currently up to the battle in Chapter 3. The dating sim hub thingy felt unwieldy and annoying at first to me, especially given how I just came from Brig, which is just menus and gameplay all the time - exploration feels more and more undesirable in a RPG to me as I grow older, and I just want to go straight to the nitty-gritty. This said, once I unlocked fast travel and got used to the monastery's layout, I've gotten engrossed in the building involved during the sim part - it's a big part of making into your battle builds!

Right now, I have started supports with Petra/Edelgard, Dorothea/Edelgard, Ferdinand/Edelgard, Ferdinand/Hubert, Byleth/Petra, Byleth/Ferdinand and Byleth/Dorothea. Linhardt already got to Faith C, while Dory's up to C Reason/D Faith. Edelgard's at C Axes and almost C authority, so I'm building Heavy Armor/Lances/Flying for her right now. Byleth's just doing Sword/Faith/Authority stuff with whatever comes up at seminars. Hubert's doing Reason/Authority/some Lances, Sylvain and Ferdie are focusing on lances+riding, though maybe I should build them Axes at some point? Bernadetta's doing Lance and Bows, whatever girl. Currently, only Edel and Byleth have gotten beginner classes. Everybody else either needs to reach L5 or class mastery or both. I suspect Dorothea will get her class next, I want Fiendish Blow. Not sure where should I take the other kids, though. Wondering if I should bother with C Heavy Armor for everyone in order to get that -3 Weight, but maybe I'm overthinking it. Oh well, it's still C3. I already benched Caspar, because his build looks miserable.

Brigandine - Yeah, beat it with Guimoule. The final boss is a fairly decent take on what can make a fight against very few targets dangerous in the system, but it's ultimately very controllable and frankly not too exciting after the first time. The most compelling part about the game is the moment-to-moment conquest hubbub, and battles between squads are a lot more exciting than what the game can muster for boss fights. Will definitely give it replays, it's a great game for replays and has quite a lot to explore (I didn't even touch cross-classing in my first playthrough!), but it'll have to wait until I clear Three Houses at least once.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #204 on: September 22, 2020, 05:40:38 AM »
Trails 3rd- Beat Ch 4. Used Anelace/Mueller then Tita/Agate for the 3rd/4th due to great weapon selection that made them obvious choice/Orbal Gear (which is nasty). Stacking magic boosting is nasty; with 2 of those +300? magic stats, Kevin did 11000 damage from his S-Break when no one else is really breaking 5000 and he's doing 4000 with spells anyways. Boss challenge seems to have fallen off somewhat, but maybe it's just that I bothered having a decent Orbment setup.
...into the nightfall.

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #205 on: September 22, 2020, 05:06:53 PM »
That sounds about right, later bosses in 3rd are nasty on paper but the level of setup available even at that point is just plain nuts.

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #206 on: September 29, 2020, 11:44:53 PM »
Hades: So I have been binge playing this like there is no tomorrow lately. I've cleared at least twice with every weapon and just got the "ending" this morning. I cannot state enough how good this game is.

I don't actually have the brain to talk about it rn, but it is good. If you like action roguelites go play it!
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

DragonKnight Zero

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #207 on: September 30, 2020, 06:21:00 AM »
Mana Khemia: Finally beat the bonus dungeon after it's been sitting at 80% complete for ... it's been so long since I lasted posted about it I don't remember and not going to bother digging through old posts to find it at the moment.

  First there's the matter of having enough of the useful items.  The attack/magic buffs turned out to be the most important along with revival.  Party healing is handy for emergency use as well as full HP heals.  I made 15 Globes but didn't use any in my winning attempt.  Did end up farming some ingredients but at least this is something done once and I'm not repeating steps every attempt.  Oh, and made an additional 5 Treasure Capes.

  Prior to descending, it's a good idea to set a useful rumor.  I saved before doing this so I could experiment with different ones on each attempt.  -10% SP consumption is nice though my winning attempt used the all stats +5 one.  The descent isn't too bad in theory since there's a warp point that takes me most of the way.  Things can still go wrong.  If I hit too many enemies on the way down, even though I'm getting the first turn and running without getting hurt (thanks Nikki), night falls earlier than I'd like.  Running into an enemy with ????? HP is worse.  Can't run from them and waiting for them to kill my party takes so long, it's faster to reset.  I allowed one encounter before nightfall, any more and it's warping out to reset the clock and try again.

  That's the basic plan, dodge everything and get as far as possible before night falls.  During nighttime, that's when I bust out the Treasure Capes to not be bothered by encounters.  Takes 2-4 Treasure Capes depending on how far I got before.  Still takes about a half-hour or so (counting retreats) to make it to the bottom for a crack at the boss battle there.  This way, my team is at full HP/MP for the hardest fight in the game.

Anna and Muppy sit out for the battle.  The other three mages are just so much more useful and since I'm planning on using Variable Strike, Anna's offensive assist doesn't synergize well with that.  I also learn every Support SP Recovery and Support Speed skill for some added edge.  Turns out multiple of the same type do stack; I never knew that.  Vanye, Nikki, and Pamela go up first with Jess, Flay, and Roxis waiting in the back.  Nikki is there mostly to get the first turn since Speed decides the initial turn order. but she also hits hard with her animal friends plus having MT knockback  Vayne is also fast and has Overrealm and Jade Shift for more actions.  I am prepared to use him as an item healer though he'll go on offense in Burst Mode.  Pamela is mainly there to help tank the initial assault since 2 out of 3 opponents only have physical abilities.  I'd like to set up low HP No Bullying but am not counting on it.  Survival is more important and it's not always worth the risk of a close to full Burst gauge.

  As for the other three, Jess heals and has Boost and Grand Ray for support if she somehow has a free turn where no one needs healing. Flay is there for Defense down on his offense assist and hitting weakness with his regular attack for Burst gauge building.  Raiden Charge is nice to have and he has other skills for Burst mode offenses.  Roxis is important for clearing enemy time cards and also because Chroma Drive is one of the best ways to build the Burst gauge. (the other being Variable Strike mostly though any skill which hits all three enemies and does many hits can also be useful for that)

  The opposition: Three different bosses that have already appeared earlier in the descent.  Except now it's all three at once.  There's also a time pressure present because Darkalvero still has his Necroism gimmick.  Take too long and he becomes essentially unkillable.  Darkalvero absolutely must die first even if getting rid of Darkcrowley first (the only source of magical damage) would make survival easier.  For added insult, Darkyula always opens with a triple-act.  Combined with the other two, they can waste a healthy character from full to nothing.  Hence, my choice of starters.  Nikki and Vayne are both durable and Pamela laughs off all physicals.

  I can't really gives a blow-by-blow account of the battle because there are so many moving parts to juggle.  Keeping everyone alive, getting that Burst gauge up, getting the most mileage out of Burst Mode (timed skills refill the bar a bit based on hit count), is it an opportune time to use a knockback skill, using offensive buff items on the people doing the most damage, do I need someone available to tag someone out and therefore it's not safe to unleash Variable Strike.  A lot of turn by turn judgment.  I used the Switch command a few times even.  There's no added battle benefit unlike what the offense and defense assists have but sometimes, having that turn right now was worth it.  Mostly for Roxis when there are lots of enemy time cards piling up.  Getting off Overrealm isn't a sure thing.  If all three enemies have turns in between the charge time, Vayne could be killed or dizzied and therefore, it's probably not safe to use it.

  I got lucky with the opening turn.  Nikki used a buff item on someone, quickness activated, and she got another turn before the enemies could act.  Cast Decoy Shield on Vayne for lack of anything more productive to do.  It actually worked a few times, saving some damage.  After some earlier failed attempts, it was quite gratifying to dogpile Darkalvero with Variable Strike, doing good damage and also building lots of Burst meter, often entering Burst mode right there.  Risked extra timecard damage a time or two to fire off Chroma Drive instead of Purifying them.  In these early turns, more offense is valuable.  Darkalvero cooperated a bit by using Spark Blade on his 3rd turn.  It has a charge time, delaying that crucial 4th turn where he starts with the Necroism nonsense.  Succeeded in toppling him though two characters dropped almost right after.  But with the time crunch gone, it's a simple matter to recover.  I think a third fell at some point but spared a turn to use the MT revival item and everyone's in fighting shape again.  Hey, this is the hardest battle of the game.  If there's ever a time to use the highest tier items, this is it.  Not that I really needed them since the major threat to winning is gone.  Took out Darkcrowley next.  Pamela could solo the physical only Darkyula at this point but I saw no reason to leave two people dead so mostly normal boss fighting strats to finish things.

  Won the surprise battle after that.  Yes, there's an immediate followup boss fight with no chance to recover.  Given my playstyle, not an issue.  Would really only catch someone who cuts it too close to disaster.  OK, Pamela was still at 1 HP but whatever.  It does have some new moves after its HP is low enough and also gains a gimmick where it will block most physicals.  It's a dispellable buff though, much more fair than what came before.

  And with that, the bonus dungeon is truly conquered.  These two fights can be refought to farm stat boosting items as well as bonus dungeon exclusive gear but I don't plan to do so.

Link to the Past randomizer
  I'm not going to get into my randomizer escapades here.  Just felt like giving a shout out to its Retro mode for doing something the original game doesn't.  Namely, money stays relevant for the whole game.  When its 550 rupees to kill Vitreous with silver arrows, one is less likely to scoff at rupee drops/treasure.


Niu

  • Kitchen Knife
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2593
  • and Everyon's Hatred
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #208 on: October 04, 2020, 04:30:43 AM »
Just want to tell people this: Go play 13 Sentinel if you haven't! This thing is Game of Year material. And this one of those few games that can provide experience truly unique to a video game!

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #209 on: October 06, 2020, 05:34:05 AM »
I've been streaming 13 Sentinels.  About 75% through the plot, after 9 or so 3-hour sessions.  Just an astounding game.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

Niu

  • Kitchen Knife
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2593
  • and Everyon's Hatred
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #210 on: October 07, 2020, 04:15:50 AM »
Buy the game Miki, buy the game. Give Vanilla Ware your money!
Kamiya went as far as defying orders from Atlus to get this game out. He needs to be rewarded. (Atlus ordered Kamiya to cut away 5 characters from the game. But Kamiya didn't listen and still made 13 character under the table.)

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #211 on: October 08, 2020, 03:56:46 AM »
13 Sentinels' story is pretty engaging and I love the unique chapter structure and how it plays around with chronology.

But the gameplay itself looks... dull-at-best? Super would probably like it, it reminds me of a lot of the things he raves about, but it just didn't do anything for me.

Maybe it gets better?

Niu

  • Kitchen Knife
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2593
  • and Everyon's Hatred
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #212 on: October 08, 2020, 05:33:02 AM »
The Tower Defense part?
It is a bit too easy is the problem.
Once you find out how to exploit the first generation and third generation, the game just become a easy walk over until you do the after game.

Though, just why there is a total of 9999 after game stages.
I mean, serious.

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #213 on: October 08, 2020, 07:27:13 AM »
Buy the game Miki, buy the game. Give Vanilla Ware your money!
Kamiya went as far as defying orders from Atlus to get this game out. He needs to be rewarded. (Atlus ordered Kamiya to cut away 5 characters from the game. But Kamiya didn't listen and still made 13 character under the table.)

I bought it.  I meant I've been broadcasting it myself, not watching other people.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 07:52:42 AM by NotMiki »
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

Niu

  • Kitchen Knife
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2593
  • and Everyon's Hatred
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #214 on: October 09, 2020, 05:49:35 AM »
Buy the game Miki, buy the game. Give Vanilla Ware your money!
Kamiya went as far as defying orders from Atlus to get this game out. He needs to be rewarded. (Atlus ordered Kamiya to cut away 5 characters from the game. But Kamiya didn't listen and still made 13 character under the table.)

I bought it.  I meant I've been broadcasting it myself, not watching other people.

Ohhhh! You were streaming!? Link please!

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #215 on: October 09, 2020, 03:14:55 PM »
twitch.tv/notmiki
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #216 on: October 11, 2020, 12:58:20 AM »
Fire Emblem: Three Houses: Crimson Flower

Nothing special about this playthrough, its main purposes were to (a) ensure SS wasn't my most recent file, (b) watch a bunch of scenes/supports again to help with fic writing, and (c) try out a couple classes I had never used before. Spoilers for that last one, there's a reason I had never used them before.

Byleth: Pegasus Knight -> War Cleric. I half-hoped to do both Brigand and Pegasus Knight but Byleth's training being what it is, that didn't happen. Anyway, dodgy punchy build is effective enough. Felt less good than on my AM run but I'm not sure if I had worse stats or the CF map design is less friendly to it.

Edelgard: Brigand/Mercenary -> Warrior -> Wyvern Lord. Vantage/Wrath time! I figured I'd try this out. Compared to Battalion Vantage/Wrath, it requires mastering a pair of mediocre classes. Reaching low HP is easier than reaching low battalion health, but it's also more dangerous. So it's a weaker build overall but still valid and pretty satisfying. CF also has far fewer (uncounterable) siege weapons than other routes, which helps. The Crest of Flames bringing Edelgard out of Vantage/Wrath range is something you have to watch for, so she's not really optimum for this build... but you really need a lot of str to make it work (too easy for a Killer Axe+ crit to fail to KO if your str is much lower) so not too many people would be good for it... Felix or Raphael are interesting candidates? Anyway she's also Edelgard and could erase anything on player phase too, was MVP for every post-TS map except one paralogue.

Hubert: Mage -> Paladin. Frozen Lance all day every day. I decided to see what not going to Dark Knight was like, I'm... less happy with it but it does slightly maintain better OHKO potential, and Arrow of Indra+ helps make up for no magic.

Ferdinand: Brigand -> Paladin -> Great Knight. The first new class experiment! Great Knight is bad on this route, don't use it. Cavalry that dismounts to 4 move (every other endgame mounted class dismounts to 6 except Valkyrie) is incredibly hard to use on the last couple maps. Otherwise could kinda tank things and use Swift Strikes to kill squishier enemies.

Dorothea: Mage -> Dark Flier. She got mag-screwed and only had 23+2 at the end of the game. Did it matter? I mean, a little? Not really? She still had range 5 Thoron (6 if I grabbed Thyrsus), Meteor linked attacks, Physic, could 2HKO most things and go wherever she wanted, and just enough durability to bait things since Dark Flier actually gets speed. Dark Flier is good, it turns out.

Petra: Dancer. She looks like such a badass dodging everything. I don't have much to say, she's not quite as evasive as Dancer Ferdinand but she's not far, same basic idea that works well as always.

Felix: Brigand -> Hero -> Assassin. So uh, yeah. Hero. 5 move, whatever stats, Swordfaire is the worst -faire probably, especially before I got the Brave Sword. Felix was the worst of my main team, which is an impressive thing to say about Felix. I wasn't planning to go to assassin but I just couldn't deal with his shit any longer, so I went there after getting Defiant Str which I never ended up using anyway even though Assassin's a good fit for it.

Manuela: Pegasus Knight -> Assassin. I was planning to go Falcon but changed my mind with her, due to authority reasons. Basically she starts too far behind on authority so it was nice to just slap Supreme Armoured Co. (C rank, great stats for a mixed build) on her. Could double most things with Levin Sword and Assassin is actually cool with its Stealth and terrain ignoring. Darting Blow is neat. I think this build would be very nifty with both Darting and Fiendish Blow, but Manuela doesn't really have time for that... maybe Ingrid? Marianne, Dorothea, Lysithea? Something to try someday.

Lysithea: Mage -> Valkyrie -> Dark Knight. Solid, getting range and move and Uncanny Blow from Advanced is great. Luna's a nice trump card against a certain Vantage/drainsword boss and a couple others. She got magic-blessed as well so good times.

Shamir, Marianne (with Stride), and Jeritza were my filler 10th, 11th, and 12th as needed. Nothing unusual about their builds.

Kills: Marianne 4 /// Jeritza 10 /// Petra 50 /// Shamir 76 /// Manuela 82 /// Felix 83 /// Lysithea 100 /// Dorothea 105 /// Hubert 107 /// Ferdinand 113 /// Byleth 117 /// Edelgard 215

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #217 on: October 11, 2020, 03:05:30 AM »
Quote
Could double most things with Levin Sword and Assassin is actually cool with its Stealth and terrain ignoring. Darting Blow is neat. I think this build would be very nifty with both Darting and Fiendish Blow, but Manuela doesn't really have time for that... maybe Ingrid? Marianne, Dorothea, Lysithea? Something to try someday.

This is kinda what I ended up doing with Ingrid on my VW playthrough (ok, Mortal Savant instead of Assassin so had to rely on dodging/not getting gambit'd, but similar idea), it definitely has potential for a slightly off-the-wall non-hypothecial optimal person build and I feel like the biggest problem I had when doing it was that I didn't decide on it earlier
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 06:16:19 AM by Random Consonant »

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #218 on: October 14, 2020, 12:14:43 PM »
Brigandine knight/country reviews. Been working on this on and off as I've played the game over the summer and fall. Will post as I have time. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1phCX__6IuomaEnioApz_db_ZNaA7xwPazKwJoHDqhIY/edit#gid=0 Stats are pulled from the Brigandine spreadsheet. It isn't perfect but gives you a pretty good thumbnail for relative stats.




I'd just like to say that male priests are *TRASH*. Who the hell thought that class line needed a nerf?


Country: Mirelva
Best Knight (not ruler): Tommy
Worst Knight: Viggo
Good: A lot of competent mid tier knights and a good starting location
Bad: No easy path of expansion; second in command isn't super impressive



Stella: 9- High stats, charm and starts off competent at everything. She doesn't have the crazy physical damage of Rudo or the super high INT of Rubino, but she's good at everything and starts off at L15 which is nice. I'd put her in the same area as Tim and Rubino for use. She's not quite as good as them at the very end, but she starts off much faster due to levels and having a Brigandine.

Adieu-7.5- High INT is useful; he laughs at status that wrecks say Ginny. He's a very solid unit who has pretty good Rune. That said he doesn't start as a Viking and it does take a bit of time to get him promoted. I'd peg him as the worst of the second in command types(Grados/Kyle/Darian/Ginger/Sid)  due to the lack of overwhelming power at the start and not having a crazy endgame of someone like Sid.

Gallivard-6- Literally has the same stats as Adieu minus 30 rune, 6 levels lower. That means he's quite solid but nothing amazing. I'm not a big fan of Berserker due to the poor agility and no ranged options, but he's still worth using.

Ginny-7- Interesting knight. He has crazy high STR but no AGI or INT and bad Rune. He excels at both questing and defense; plant him on a castle and watch him tear through enemies. Don't use him like the AI does and charge him into the line though, he is really bad at hitting most enemies without Halo and his low INT means he is very vunerable to status and Dimension.

Lorzeno-2- Male priests are embarrassingly bad across the board in this game. They get literally one shot of Holy Word and one other spell and that's it. Cardinal is also the worst tier 3 class in the game to boot. Their INT/stat spread is garbage and they don't even get Halo or Divine Ray. Hard pass.

Lucia- 3.5- Unremarkable to bad stats all around; the rune is especially bad. As much as I love her promoted class, there are better options out there for Royal Guards. The only thing I can say for Lucia is that she's better than Lorzeno and that Temple Knight is at least competent.

Pluto- 7.5- Excellent INT and MP; he can do a ton of damage with Geno Flame right out the gate and is great at supporting Mirelva's fighters. Wizard is inferior to Witch in this game but it's still useful, mostly thanks to how useful Solid is.

Ratka-7.5- Below average STR for the class line, but amazing Rune and Snipers are great. Archers are easy to baby, just get them a Knight or high level monster kill and they're already at their tier 2 class. That said she still requires some effort to get going and the low STR is really annoying.

Robilio- 2.5- Barbarian is a really bad class. Robilio doesn't even have the high STR of Ginny or the INT of Gallivard or Adieu. You can use him but why bother with the fourth best Berserker Mirelva has?

Sherad-5- Thieves are trash until promotion and in the running for worst class in the game. Once he promotes he's fine, but that requires some effort; I docketed him 2 points for that.

Sophie-7. 148 Rune is *so* bad at the start. She's great once she gets rolling, but it takes biting the bullet and dragging her to fights at a low level or several months of questing. It's enough of a problem that it lowers her score.

Tommy-8.5- Rangers are great for hit and away tactics; you can use Draw Trick to start the fight and then have your ranger retreat to your line and let the AI crash into you. There is a reason why he is the only starting Ranger in the game; the line is crazy busted from L10 onward. He also has incredibly high STR for the class as noted above; 95 STR is average for an L30 Treasure Hunter.  Draw Trick is ITE, hits three in a line and has the benefits of pulling the closest target (if possible) one square forward. Tommy pairs tremendously with someone with Power or Brave Song; IE Sophie or Pluto, just in case he wasn't already doing enough damage already. He doesn't have the same evasion as other Rangers and his Rune isn't good, but I don't care when he is so good at smashing things.
 
Umimaru-7. As good as the offense looks on paper, it is severely limited by MP concerns and not being able to move before using it. I think he's a better unit for defense due to the high defensive stats; he can take a tremendous beating on a castle tile. The unique knights in each country are really well balanced, surprisingly. I was expecting Umimaru to be like a ninja master and all about the crazy ranged offense, but that was more from what I got from Rangers.

Viggo-1.5- Monk line is really bad until Champion. Viggo's got bad rune stats and unremarkable physical stats. On top of that his weapons are a pain in the ass to get too and he competes with much better units for light armor. The hideously low MP  is a problem too.

Yuki-6- Above average swordsman. Joins 7 seasons in which is a bit annoying. Yuki makes for pretty solid midgame fodder and is certainly an improvement over Lucia or or Robilio, even if he isn't amazing.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #219 on: October 21, 2020, 04:04:40 AM »
13 Sentinels: I can't believe Vanillaware created a mystery VN with 13 perspective characters and time travel and the biggest plot hole is why does Gouto have his glasses in his sentinel cockpit?

13 Sentinels is a very good game.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

DragonKnight Zero

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #220 on: October 21, 2020, 04:10:41 AM »
Atelier Meruru Endings ranking (by difficulty to acquire)

    Been plinking away at my postgame save for the purpose of triggering some endings I haven't unlocked yet.  Felt like writing about Meruru and rather than try to give highlights from my gameplay (everything that isn't an optional boss gets crushed) decided doing an endings ranking would be more fun.  This is purely subjective and assumes the viewpoint of a player who knows what they're doing.  Also making no distinction between whether playing from scratch or a Clear game in ranking the difficulty to unlock.  I'm also not including any of the failure endings on this list.

From hardest to easiest to acquire -

Strongest Princess: Need to beat Masked G for this one.  Without making special preparations, I get maybe one or two turns total before losing; his offense is that potent.  Even with special preparation, he has innate 95% damage reduction so every hit dealt to him feels like scratch damage.  He also regains HP on every action and triple-turns.  Pretty much need to use the alchemy system to cheese him and it still takes awhile to wear him down.  On top of winning the Masked G fignt, I believe there's an additional requirement of Keina reaching Lv50 and winning a battle with her in the party.  Oh, and if the Miss Popular ending got flagged, all the work into beating Masked G is for naught.

Alchemist: One of the NG+ exclusive endings with a strong NG+ exclusive boss   This boss is one of the most legit threatening opponents in the game.  Simply making the strongest weapons and armor and items may not be enough.  It will take some paying attention to which traits you add to your gear to have the firepower to win.  Because this requires some degree of proficiency with the alchemy system, I consider this the next hardest ending to acquire.

Boy's Bath: Requires completing a quest line to the end, then revisiting a location you've been to before.  Then there's nearly three months of events and synthesis at a minimum.  Then there's a facility to build which takes another 30 days to trigger the ending.  That's a lot a time to set aside.   Also need a high alchemy level since the items to synthesize are Lv 50 items.  So if your alchemy level is lagging, it's quite possible to not have enough time to grind it up and still finish the ending requirement.

Witch's Tea party: Because max Alchemy level takes a lot of time to reach.  Also need to finish another sidequest but that one is more straightforward.

Castle Life: Yeah, I consider this difficult.  Anyone's who is playing halfway decent can trigger Topsy-Turvy without intentionally trying so getting this one requires deliberately playing to not grow the kingdom population too fast.

Miss Popular: The other NG+ exclusive ending which requires seeing all the character scenes.  This requires getting Friendship up to 80 for PCs and about 50 for NPCs.  I don't consider this too hard and end up needing to go out of my way not to trigger this when going for a different ending.  It's also not too unlikely to have one character lag behind on Friendship growth (or if RNG never generates Friendship requests for them) so I guess this one does take some effort.

A Rich Nation: This and the next two I feel are about equal in difficulty to acquire.  This one has the most prerequisites so I used that as the deciding factor.

Finally, As Planned: The required synthesis to trigger this one is a Lv 48 item.  Don't actually need to have that high an Alchemy level with the help of some traits to boost the success % of a synthesis though.  There's a boss fight as part of the event chain but nothing harder than the required bosses for other endings above this.

Now Go Bravely: It doesn't take any special effort to lose to Masked G.  Triggering the fight takes some effort (and I don't think the exact requirements to trigger the lizard invasion are documented anywhere) but less work than the other ending arcs.  The required battles are also less demanding overall.

Topsy Turvy: Although it's very low on the priority list, other endings are at the ends of long event chains so it's simple to intentionally avoid triggering them

« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 04:25:22 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #221 on: October 22, 2020, 09:47:17 PM »
13 Sentinels: beat.  I'm not sure why I don't play more VNs.  The ones I have I almost invariably like.  Maybe I'm an easy mark, or maybe, since I've generally only hit the highest-profile of 'em I've only encountered the good stuff.  13 Sentinels is not strictly speaking a VN - I guess you'd say it's a combination of segments of RTS combat and light adventure game gameplay.  But in spirit it's a VN through and through.  The basic structure of the game is that the RTS segments are a final battle against a mechanical alien force called the Deimos, who are opposed by our protagonists: 13 teenage pilots, some of whom have time-travelled from other eras, of giant robots called sentinels.  So that's where we know the plot ends up, but how, why, and to what end? The real meat of the game (and what you will spend far more time on) is the adventure game segments where you guide each character through the choices they can make in their daily life prior to the final battle.  Here's where the game really impresses.  13 perspective characters is a lot.  Now imagine a plot akin to what you had in Odin Sphere, where characters are constantly bouncing off one another, questions that arise in one character's story are answered in another, alliances form and shift, and story segments are not doled out in even remotely chronological order, and multiply that complexity by three or so.  That's 13 Sentinels.  It's brilliant.  Critical to all that is the plot twists, of which there are many, abetted by the nonlinear storytelling.  I streamed the whole thing, and eventually each stream would start with half an hour or more of pure speculation as to the plot, and on a regular basis words would come out of my mouth that formed sentences but were also so objectively absurd they'd make you laugh, even in context.  Have I mentioned that the game somehow manages to be perfectly serious 90% of the time but is also neck-deep in blatant pop culture sci-fi references?  It's quite something.  I'd be remiss not to talk about the art.  It's absolutely beautiful.  Much more restrained color scheme than Vanillaware's standard fare, which helps set the tone for the more serious story, but the light effects are just on another level.  The sunset in the distance, the sunlight shining into a dusty old wooden schoolbuilding with no interior light, it's just all great.  The character art is also quite restrained considering Vanillaware's other games, but shines in giving each character a body language in line with their personality.  I can't think of another videogame that's had more dedication to those subtle movements of arms and body.  Music is good too - Hitoshi Sakamoto & co., occasionally channeling the GitS:SAC soundtrack, it seemed to me.  It's a stellar game.  Play it!  Also there's Problematic (ymmv) Queer Romance, which I cannot even begin to discuss without getting deep into in spoiler territory but I appreciated a great deal.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 09:49:05 PM by NotMiki »
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1373
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #222 on: October 23, 2020, 04:08:31 PM »
3 Houses: Picked up a Switch this September as a reward for a job change. I've beaten almost two campaigns (Azure Moon and Verdant Wind) - on C.21 of VW right now. For the most part, this game is really good. Cold Steel 3 was what I was looking forward to playing but 3 Houses wins the award for probably the best game of this year. It's close though since I also loved Azure but yeah, pretty glad I was finally able to sink my teeth into it!

I do have some minor nitpicks but they don't super detract away from the game. The main one will probably be familiar to everyone who has played 3H, is that you can't enjoy all the campaigns without starting the game from the very beginning. This means, while there are 3 campaigns (4 if you count Church route), you end up having to replay a bunch of earlier levels, where the enemies and levels aren't as creative or challenging. To give 3H some credit, I'm not sure with how the game is set up how you can set up a midpoint without ruining the immersion or character skill level customization. Both are kinda important for making 3H work. It is really the one glaring problem in 3H because IntSys has shown they know how to use midpoint checks before (see FE7 and FE8).

The other minor issues I've spoken about in Discord. For example: I'm also not a huge fan of cutting off recruitment halfway through the game. Normally in other FE entries, there's always an early game crutch (Jeigan) and a late game crutch in case you get really screwed. FE7 had Athos, FE9-10 gave you Laguz royals, Echoes gave you Mycen, etc. 3H really has no recourse here. It also has no real Jeigan. The closest we come to is Catherine and she's more of the Oswin/Nolan archetype versus a Marcus. To make up for this fact though, 3H does a lot of curb potential screwage. You have: Battalions that give extra stats, Class minimums for insurance on a certain stat's floor value, Combat abilities that allow you to make up Strength, Hit and even Attack Speed weaknesses (on player phase), accessory slot to provide a little more customization and benefits to units. I still would've preferred a more guarantee solution in the form of a unit, but what's there is adequate. Another example is that 3H doesn't tell you which skills are learnt from class mastery or skill proficiency. The slight good news is that class masteries aren't super important (although there are a few that are just very good to have in general). However, skill proficiencies is a different story as the magic list and combat art list for every unit is different. I have no idea if investing in say Lances for Sylvain fully is a better idea than fully investing in Axes until I run a playthrough to do both.

These minor blemish I think hold it back slightly for me, for all that 3H is very good and you should definitely play it if you have a Switch. As I spoke about in chat, it's basically Echoes++ with a lot of the bad stuff removed, leaving behind a very unique experience that plays more towards Neo/Modern FE.

Units and Thoughts (not ordered in tiers):

Top tier units: Byleth, Lords (haven't use Edelgard, but I doubt she isn't top tier), your Dancer unit
Pretty conservative Top tier list, but also not surprising. Byleth's versatility along with his/her overall growths make him/her always a great combat unit or support unit if yours gets screwed somewhat. Held back largely by a mediocre magic list and needing to use Exploration time to get WEXP. The latter is curbed on a New Game+ and if you ever want to see how broke that ends up being, definitely try it and get a good laugh. Between Dimitri and Claude, Dimitri has a stronger early game as his offense starting out is already notable. Has a weaker mid-game before the time skip unless you build him around specifically with Wyverns in mind. Late game, his offense shoots out of the roof. Immense strength and Atrocity is ridiculous. He's also pretty good defensively too as Royal Lineage gets upgraded to give him +20 Avoid at full health, letting you build some evade tanking on top of his decent Defense. Claude on the other hand has a weaker early game, stronger mid-game and probably the best T3 promotion between the lords. Flying + bows, along with his stat base means he's the most agile and mobile of the three and his offense isn't that much worse for the wear. Like Dimitri is very strong late game, although probably the weakest in this tier.

High tier units:
Lysithea: Probably the game's strongest mage. Pre-DLC, Lysithea is held back by having weaker choices for Tier 4. You'll have to do quite a bit more work to get her to Dark Knight, otherwise, you're probably defaulting to Gremory. Given the amount of power she has, she usually doesn't need the Double spell charges, although 2x Warp is nice. With DLC, that drawback goes away. Her defenses are pretty bad but she's an extremely strong glass cannon - especially once the +2 magic attack range accessory comes in.

Catherine: Her only real problem is that she's stuck in Swordsmaster, which is a bad class. You'll have to recruit her early, but as was discussed in chat, she's basically Nolan or Oswin. Someone who starts off strong, but you do need to put time into developing her and she can't one-woman carry you like a Marcus or Seth. Otherwise, instant access to a Hero's Relic (a strong one at that), actual growths and no real troubling banes make her damn good.

Felix: His strong bases + Raven-esque growths (55/55 on Str/Spd) make him a physical offense cannon. He tends to hit harder than Petra who is similar in terms of stat spread but his problem lies mainly in his proficiencies. Sword/Fisticuffs are kinda eeeeeeeeeh and an authority bane is bad. He doesn't mind Assassin that much but he's definitely more limited in where he tends to grow.

Mercedes: Probably the game's best healer due to having actual usable combat stats and Fortify as a reasonable time. Turning her into a Gremory gives you 4 shots of that which is a total lifesaver if you get in a bad spot. Her one kind of minor blemish is speed. It's more iffy than Lysithea's but even if it turns bad, you can just keep her at range due to her White Mag List.

Sylvain: Just...very versatile. He has 3 viable builds - all of which work at end game (Pal, Wyvern Lord, Dark Knight). In the early game, he has access to his legendary weapon ridiculously early and it kind of wrecks the damage curve if you are okay with blowing it's charges. His main problem is accuracy, but you can build him in many ways, which means you can slot him into a team easy. Plus he's basically free if you are playing as F.Byleth.

Petra: Felix with worse strength growth but better proficiencies. So her start is a bit worse, but she's definitely stronger at end game. Also has a lot of versatility, although it's mostly with the physical jobs. Dodge-tanking or a Wyvern Lord smashing flyer both work for her. Basically does anything on Player Phase due to her insane speed + access to Darting Blow if you so choose.

Hilda: Has a built in path to Wyvern Lord and is otherwise really strong. Instead of speed, Hilda's big growth number is in strength. However, she also has access to Darting Blow so if you want to make her have the possibility of doubling more stuff, it's also on the table. Also gets access to her legendary pretty early, which makes her just pure ball of power, capable of even OHKOing things pretty frequently. Authority bane kinda of sucks though.

Marianne: I waffle between the tiers here, but I think this is right with DLC. Marianne has both riding AND flying proficiency bonus, which means she can make great use out of the DLC classes. She likes both because one helps her ramp up her borderline speed and the other gives her Uncanny Blow was mastered, which she greatly appreciates as she's stuck with Blizzard for her base Reason spell. Both her magic lists are solid in general but no siege tomes is a bummer. Her budding talent in Lances is important since it lets her move into Pegasus Knight for Darting Blow to help with speed and later to Dark Knight to help with move. Both require a bit of investment, so she obviously likes the DLC classes more cause they are more readily available and can shore up those weaknesses just as well. Probably goes down a tier without the DLC since she'd require more effort then, but very solid. 

Mid tier units:
Dedue: Strong start but mediocre finish. In the beginning, before enemy offense starts spiking and people get into their respective roles, Dedue's super high defense is very valuable and his damage is on par with everyone else. Later on, there are things that can break it and his slow speed means he's almost always doubled, so everything begins to look less impressive. Also, the last AM map is like 90% mages just to spite him or something.

Ashe: The opposite of Dedue. Starts off being pretty mediocre but when twinked in a certain way becomes very powerful and unique. A lot of the late AM maps are about positioning - where the enemies usually have some sort of terrain advantage or lots of siege weapons on deck. Ashe goes "lol whatever" with his 22 threat range bow snipes and knocks out those more fragile units in the back. Not a strategy that can be replicated in Maddening due to the extreme accuracy penalty that you suffer, but on Hard, a fully decked out Ashe has something like 237 Hit, making it a valid of taking out the map/unit disadvantages you end up facing.

Ingrid: Similar to Ashe. A little weak at the start, but her speed/res are a great so late game, becomes a valid FalcoKnight and proper magic tank. Which is good because not very many people fill that niche. Suffers slightly in the mid-game too when she doesn't have a really advanced class to tech up to, but its rather minor given this period isn't terribly long and FalcoKnight is one of the better intermediate jobs.

Cyril: It's the game's Aptitude project character, except Cyril is vastly different than them in that a) his bases while weak, are not god awful in the way Donnel/Mozu's are. b) This then comes with a trade off which is that he just doesn't end up as strong as them either. I later looked at his growth rates, and all aptitude really does is bump them into the averages of everyone else, so it's kinda misleading in how worthwhile of a project he is. The good news is, his skill proficiencies are solid and he tends to be a little above average once built up, so it's not like there's no pay off.

Constance: In some ways, very similar to Lysithea. Has a built in path to Dark Flier, which is probably the game's premier magic class. Her speed being a little weaker is made up for by having a magic set compatible with Black Tomefaire so she ends up hitting harder when both her and Lysithea are doubling. The downside here is that, Constance doesn't have a lot of branches to work to and if you're already building Lysithea as a flying mage death cannon, both of them end up fighting for the same resources (battalions, accessories, etc).

Dorthea: Maybe it's just me, but Dorthea always seems to grow weaker than the other mages. It doesn't matter too much because her spell list is just so strong. Psychic + Siege tome means she can stay safely in the back if yours ends up screwed on some combat stats. Probably weaker now with DLC compared to others because she has both banes in Riding and Flying and Valk + Dark Flier are both great classes. Doesn't mean she can grow into them but it takes more effort than the others.

Ferdinand: Is similar to Sylvain in that he's versatile with several different builds. This along with his personal, makes him the game's probable best dodge tank. He is weaker though in that he doesn't have a legendary weapon access like Sylvain does and his recruitment isn't free. In fact, you need to take Armor to C and while that's not completely worthless, going to Armor at C that early hamstrings Byleth's WEXP growth in other areas so it is still a notable tradeoff.

Leonie: Just a very solid growth spread. Like the other built-in pallies thus far, has some versatility in where you want to built her. Lack of a crest means you can't really use a legendary without committing suicide, but other than that, she works well on the frontlines.

Seteth: Late join, but is at least in a good class and his weapon proficiencies aren't in bad areas. Going to A spears gives him Swift Strikes, which a brave effect combat skill and fixes some other problems. Overall, he's a low effort filler. He won't go into other classes as easy, but he doesn't have to since he's arguably already in the game's best class line.

Low tier units:
Annette: What a terribly depressing magic list. She doesn't get anything notable like Psychic, Thoron or a Seige tome. She does have Wind and Cutting Gale is great, but that's about it. You can turn her into a Rally bot (gets +Speed and her own personal gives + Strength) or an magic axe wielding lady but that's a pretty sad route to end up going down.

Ignatz: All the archers specialize in something that's usually off kilter. For Ignatz, it's his extreme accuracy as his personal stacks with Archer's mastery for +40 Hit. Unfortunately, he lacks Deadeye, so he can't pull the same tricks as Ashe. Then on top of that, he's stuck on a route where you have Claude, the route's dedicated Archer who also flies. All this is just bad news for Ignatz' usability. The extreme accuracy comes in handy once or twice and he does have a stat breaker build unique to him, but the few times he shines are very minute.

Raphael: All you need to know about Raph is his growth spread, which includes 6 base speed +15% growth. He is completely saved by class minimums but he's tough to use just because so many things will eat into his HP and he ends up being way less durable as a frontliner than you'd like. To his credit, he at least hits decently but there's a lack of long term project here since you can easily build up another punch dude with actual speed by that point.

Manuela: Very weird. Her white spell list isn't all that amazing and having a reason bane means she's a mage with a magic list problem. On growths, she's basically Ingrid but magic focused. This tends to be a problem because there really isn't a good class for her to occupy. About the best plan you can hope for here is to build Manuela as an Assassin or Trickster and wield Levin Swords. Like Annette, this isn't exactly a great plan, but it's something. Having to work to build all those weapon levels...oof.

Hanneman: Most mages in 3H hover around the same spectrum for speed, with Lys being the fastest. Hanneman is probably on the other end as the slowest. Except he's notably slower compared to everyone else. He does get access to Thoron and Meteor, which is great but you have to work quite a bit of his WEXP to get there. His Magic also isn't as spec'd out like Constance. If it was, his type of build (single powerful hit ala Orochi in Fates) might be something but as is, he has problems when stacked against the others.

Shamir: Good early, pretty bad late. Shamir is solid early to mid-game filler before everyone gets going. However, there's a lack of long term game plan here so you definitely want to keep her around too long. She tends to get outclassed by the time the time skip is about to happen, but that does give her around 5-6 chapters +whatever paralogues you have to work her magic.

Alois: Shamir, trading in that good early-mid stint for being a potential project for later use if you're willing to reclass him and give him some skills. This is not terribly promising but does let you etch him into late game if you've had deaths or bad RN rolls on certain units.

Flayn: Her saving grace is her White Magic list is quite good (Rescue AND Fortify). The downside is she's pretty bad otherwise for combat. The stat spread is not great and she lacks levels in Reason. These things along with her delayed start make her similar to being a project since you need to feed her Reason WEXP, then regular EXP. She does join early enough that she can get out of the hole but that hole shouldn't be there in the first place.

Bottom tier units:
Lorenz: Dumpster fire man is also dumpster fire in terms of his build. He's set out to either be a tankier paladin or tankier mage, giving up some speed for some better defenses. This tends to lead to him being too slow to do much of anything and enemy offense shoots up much faster than his slightly higher than normal defenses. He probably actually works best if you treat him as a mage rather than a frontliner, but even, there's a lot of competition there and his magic list has issues. He does get a notable mention in that you need to do his paralogue to get his broken ass accessory so you'll probably recruit him regardless, but yikes.

Caspar: Just very mediocre in a non-inspirational build. All the dedicated fist guys tend to be slower but Caspar tends to be the faster. This doesn't really save him though because his strength is lower to make up for it and if you want to be a punch dude, you want to have more power so your first two hits count. Throw his bleh proficiencies on top and you got someone that becomes hard to justify using. Oh yeah AND an authority bane on top of that cause why not???

Gilbert: If his introduction as a guest doesn't make you sad with profound sadness, don't worry; Gilbert will disappoint you on official join. Inaccurate (like 50ish hit most of the time), very slow (lol 2 raw speed) and he's on a path where Dedue is already present at a time when Dedue is beginning to fall off on a pure defensive front. Even if you treat him as a new recruit and respec him, he joins 13 chapters later than everyone. I guess he deserves a mention for being the only person who will likely get to Great Knight and you need him to do an AM unique paralogue but holy crap he is bad. Is definitely the game's worst recruit by a notable margin.

That should be most of the characters. Big ones I'm missing are Edelgard and Hubert, but there are a few others. Will update when I finish the Black Eagles campaign.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 05:59:39 AM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #223 on: October 28, 2020, 04:48:36 AM »
Already responded re Tide, but...  3H just isn't a very friendly game to latejoining structurally, so I'm happy they frontloaded all the recruitment.  Gilbert being one of the worst characters in the game, and him being a late recruit (which is really just a midpoint recruit by the standards of other games!), is not a coincidence.  (The other notable late recruit is better, but that's partially because he's just given some busted abilities.)  For people who like building supports, it's also nice to get everyone sharing meals early, which late recruits interfere with.

Flayn: Her saving grace is her White Magic list is quite good (Rescue AND Fortify). The downside is she's pretty bad otherwise for combat. The stat spread is not great and she lacks levels in Reason. These things along with her delayed start make her similar to being a project since you need to feed her Reason WEXP, then regular EXP. She does join early enough that she can get out of the hole but that hole shouldn't be there in the first place.

If you're using Flayn at all, I don't even see the point of bothering much with Reason and trying to project her toward that.  You're using her as almost a pure support, either as a Bishop or as a Dancer, and you don't want her ever entering combat short of an emergency (and then, Frozen Lance is free).  I'm still not super enthusiastic with Flayn even ranked strictly among other supports because she misses Physic which rules in 3H, but there's certainly room for a pure healbot in most party comps, and White Uses x2 on Rescue does allow some cheesy plays.  Most notably, if you're not using Canto units for whatever reason (War Masters, Mortal Savants, etc.) then Rescue can become pretty important to allow characters to move forward, kill something, then get Rescue'd back.  I guess Dark Flier is an easier build for her than Dark Knight was post-DLC, but meh, offensive Flayn is so problematic I'm not even inclined to encourage bothering building it.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: What games are you playing 2020: The true last year of the current decade
« Reply #224 on: October 28, 2020, 05:48:58 AM »
Dragon Quest 11 - I beat a spider and sent some butterflies to a tree.

Gameplaywise this is pretty clearly the best Dragon Quest... I'm a bit mixed on entering turns when you get them instead of at the start, obscuring how rounds actually work, but it's fine. Everything else about the gameplay (the skill system, encounter design, item creation good lord) and QoL is significantly improved from 8 and 9. Writing's generally not very good, it's DQ doing DQ things but it definitely feels a step behind DQ8 to me so far, and DQ8 would already probably mostly put me to sleep for writing if I played it in 2020.


Belated replies:

@Tide: Enjoyed the unit rundown. I'd probably have Dorothea, Leonie, and Shamir a tier higher, and maybe Hilda/Sylvain lower (though they're near the border either way), but those are small quibbles. Some of this is just some specifics to Maddening, where Hilda/Sylvain's "pretty good" speed suffers a bit, Leonie's "really good" speed and Shamir's early Hunter's Volley get better, and accuracy becomes more of a concern making Meteor links really useful.

@Super: Most of that squares with my feelings too. I'm a bit surprised you're so high on Tommy; I can't speak to his long-term (I didn't get him more than a few levels) but his combat definitely didn't feel that amazing to me... I love the tactical positioning options so I can kinda see it, just didn't work out nearly as well for me. I lean towards Pluto as the second best knight there but mages are tough to compare with other units and I think it's a good fight between a number of people.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.