Author Topic: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom  (Read 4128 times)

Cmdr_King

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Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« on: March 07, 2020, 10:43:27 AM »
Probably the first bit of political analysis that wasn’t horse race (well, not exactly) that felt worth putting here and not in chat: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/06/warren-team-wonders-how-they-blew-it-122628

This matches well with various vibes I was getting.
Anecdotally, there’s another thing I saw a lot that wasn’t discussed here: Warren never fully recovered among leftist WoC from the Cherokee heritage controversy. It was a complete non-issue among white leftists, she sat and apologized to Cherokee representatives by most counts, but doing so in relative privacy rather than tackling the issue head on was cited frequently from that camp in my experience.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2020, 08:27:20 PM »
Probably the best analyst over at 538 these days has a solid speculative article: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-commitments-can-sanders-and-the-left-get-from-biden/

He got some quotes in there that I think are worth highlighting.

Quote
“The big left asks of Biden will be on the scale and permanence of government interventions more than on any of the issues in the primary,” Schlozman said.

“Biden is very old and his instincts really do just stem from a different and much more cautious era for [Democratic] domestic policymaking,” Rosenfeld said. “That’s going to matter. That said, it’s important to note that the establishment has itself moved significantly since 2008 … The center of gravity on policy questions has shifted left.”

Obviously I can't speak for every leftist but at a Party/Platform level these scan as very true.  Indeed, in simplest terms the entire primary is about this core issue: Democrats no only do not know just how bad huge swathes of the electorate were doing before Trump, they actively condescend and shut down anyone trying to draw attention to those issues.  A willingness to keep life support going until underlying issues can be addressed legislatively will be key to mending that rift.

(Of course, the Party/Platform are not nearly as important to maintaining coalition with the left as the moderate electorate proving they aren't going to just fuck off and stop pressing their electeds to do fucking anything.)
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 09:31:17 PM »
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-biden-choose-a-running-mate-based-on-electability-ideology-or-identity/

This seems accurate.  Biden/Harris 2020- the worst and second worst of all possible Democrats.
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

superaielman

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2020, 12:24:24 PM »
Kamala Harris is a remarkable dumpster fire but she offers more to the ticket than Mayor Pete or Bloomberg at least. Yes I realize how little this says.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 12:26:16 PM by superaielman »
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 01:49:55 PM »
For purposes of bitching to the DL about politics on the internet, I actually don’t even count Bloomberg and Gabbard as Democrats, which puts those two on the bottom.

Pete... hell of I know what to make of Pete, fortunately he was never a serious contender and that goes double as a VP option. But probably less actively hostile to trans people than Harris.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2020, 02:43:18 PM »
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/did-sanders-blow-it-for-the-democratic-left-or-was-the-nomination-always-out-of-reach/

Bit of an overview so it goes all sorts of places, but this jumps out at me:

"The other point in that list that’s pretty undebatable is the effort to stop Sanders. What happened in the three days between the South Carolina primary and Super Tuesday — in particular, former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Sen. Amy Klobuchar dropping out of the race and flying to Texas to endorse Biden — was surprising and without much precedent in recent primaries.

“I have never seen my party do anything it deemed strategically necessary as quickly and decisively as it did here,” said Brian Fallon, a longtime Democratic operative who was Hillary Clinton’s national press secretary for her 2016 presidential campaign."

And it jumps out at me because we're seeing the DNC better able to motivate presidential candidates to do what helps them than the larger Party do what helps them win elections during a global crisis.
It feels genuinely dishonest to say not conclude what leftists have been saying: Democrats care more about beating progressives than beating republicans.
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dunie

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2020, 04:10:16 PM »
Quote
“With Bernie Sanders losing,” NoiseCat said, “the silver lining is we get to define a progressive movement post-Bernie that is not attached to him.”

Which must deal with local and state politics as boldly and energetically (and even more) as they do at the federal level and in states that ruin their chances. What thriving social movement against establishments in the US ever survived a top-down approach? There are many "progressive movements" before and after someone like Sanders, that're severed in viability because of constituents and systemic suppression. Bandaid project or internal medicine?

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2020, 04:16:59 PM »
Quote
Democrats care more about beating progressives than beating republicans.

I don't think that's fair at all. Democrats care very, very, very much about defeating republicans/Trump and polls show this repeatedly (the article even references this). And this is a big part of why they coalesced around Biden, who is seen as having a better chance to do so (old white dude with moderate views, has ties to the most popular Democratic administration of our lifetimes). Whether he deserves that assessment is another (unprovable) story; I can't say I'm that comfortable with either Biden or Sanders' ability to unite and inspire the coalition needed to win elections compared to the way I felt about Obama in 2008.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2020, 05:37:44 PM »

I don't think that's fair at all. Democrats care very, very, very much about defeating republicans/Trump and polls show this repeatedly (the article even references this). And this is a big part of why they coalesced around Biden, who is seen as having a better chance to do so (old white dude with moderate views, has ties to the most popular Democratic administration of our lifetimes). Whether he deserves that assessment is another (unprovable) story; I can't say I'm that comfortable with either Biden or Sanders' ability to unite and inspire the coalition needed to win elections compared to the way I felt about Obama in 2008.

That's what the base cares about, not the party.  Prominent Democrats could be doing many, many things right now to bolster their performance in the general election, but instead are giving Trump full control of the narrative over how he's handled the current crisis.  There's none of the coordination that appeared to thwart the progressive candidates.

Quote
“With Bernie Sanders losing,” NoiseCat said, “the silver lining is we get to define a progressive movement post-Bernie that is not attached to him.”

Which must deal with local and state politics as boldly and energetically (and even more) as they do at the federal level and in states that ruin their chances. What thriving social movement against establishments in the US ever survived a top-down approach? There are many "progressive movements" before and after someone like Sanders, that're severed in viability because of constituents and systemic suppression. Bandaid project or internal medicine?

Perhaps.  But... I'm biased here.  It's flatly not possible for people like me to form local coalition or advocate in 99% of the country, and there's several other groups for whom that's also true.
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dunie

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2020, 06:13:31 PM »
Perhaps.  But... I'm biased here.  It's flatly not possible for people like me to form local coalition or advocate in 99% of the country, and there's several other groups for whom that's also true.

You're not the moneyed contingent I'm referencing nor is it sensible or ethical to presume the burden is on those disenfranchised. Obviously each state has its own variables–if a state has zero relationship from even a small or large progressive group with something like the Congressional Progressive Caucus, that's their problem to solve and co-devise with others. Judging people who truly cannot do such mistakes empowered local and state stakeholders whose task it is to extend one's ability to participate.

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2020, 02:04:25 AM »
I'm thinking from a... how to phrase it.
So in activism I think before you get into organizations at any level you actually start with community, right?  But the world isn't really the same as once it was, so it's possible and increasingly common to have non-localized communities.  For trans people this is just a material necessity: having the Gender does have a minor hereditary component but it's still something that happens somewhat randomly across all other populations, so you can't really have a concentration of trans people in one area to really form the nucleus of a local political organization.  But all sorts of other demographics have this sort of splintering, relocating, itinerant lifestyle now too, but people maintain their old social networks to a degree it stays as a community.  So I think there's a visible chunk of voters whose community can only exist at the federal level because it's dispersed all across the country. 

So while those who can should absolutely invest in local GOTV and similar efforts because that's where the voting is, at a "commiserate if your community to sway them to better beliefs and praxis" level it's all spread out rather than a district by district change, and I don't think there's really a good way for this group to unite with local practices without office seekers at the national level to rally around.

But granted I'm also salty here.  There's a strong streak of dismissing online community building entirely and seeing it as something to be broken up in some spaces, despite local organizations typically reveling in their local bigotries.  Which coming back to selfishness, is marked by transphobia in 99.99% of the country.  Bleh, rambly.
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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2020, 02:17:52 PM »
We'd agree that those disqualifying online activism would not be your allies, right? Must online activism only seek the national? Both in-person and online activism should strive to balance both. When it doesn't, we have all those atrocious examples a la Shaun King that bankrupts the currency of a movement that attempted such. But I suspect you're responding to comments outside of my post, even though these points are quite useful.

I'd like to respond to the rest of your post, but it's a bit unclear to me. Will need more time.

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2020, 02:32:48 PM »
Oh, yes, to be clear the “salty” comments are more my limited brushes with other people who tout local activism. I guess I should say that the barriers to trust and cooperation are much deeper and more complicated than national/online activists ignoring local organizations, but you’re absolutely right that happens and is a problem.

Shaun King is a good point, the flip side of nation-level, mostly online activism is the grifters can gather a lot more influence and it can take a lot longer for toxic influences to be full outed and shunned.
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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2020, 02:37:56 PM »
I'm thinking from a... how to phrase it.
So in activism I think before you get into organizations at any level you actually start with community, right?  But the world isn't really the same as once it was, so it's possible and increasingly common to have non-localized communities.  For trans people this is just a material necessity: having the Gender does have a minor hereditary component but it's still something that happens somewhat randomly across all other populations, so you can't really have a concentration of trans people in one area to really form the nucleus of a local political organization. But all sorts of other demographics have this sort of splintering, relocating, itinerant lifestyle now too, but people maintain their old social networks to a degree it stays as a community.  So I think there's a visible chunk of voters whose community can only exist at the federal level because it's dispersed all across the country. 

This seems to argue that trans people do not need localized communities, and also that a concentrated, localized trans community is impossible. But trying to think through this thought you expand it generally to human migration and technological advancements that are also prone to/supportive of fragmentation, and chances are greater for backgrounds that are higher in number? Is this correct?

Quote
But granted I'm also salty here.  There's a strong streak of dismissing online community building entirely and seeing it as something to be broken up in some spaces, despite local organizations typically reveling in their local bigotries.  Which coming back to selfishness, is marked by transphobia in 99.99% of the country.  Bleh, rambly.

Pretending I understand the same lay of the land as you would be totally offensive. I, for one, keep online activism at a distance because I cannot interface with accountability the same way. And I recognize that I live in a space where multiple communities overlap or bark at each other and that the only community I see missing much support for is the disabled. Those are privileges to an extent, but this ain't New York City, you know? I think about historic examples of activism that were always both local and remote (mail campaigns, remote donations, etc.), and this problem of enclosure is a long one in that regard. It's also a privilege that I could just easily shed lots of my internet and social media presence for some psychosocial peace, because the internet just moves way too fast for me. You have me wanting to look into greater detail about what actually exists beyond GA and TX.


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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2020, 03:24:13 PM »
yeah, that’s pretty much it. It’s just something I’ve seen a lot starting as someone who lives online, where going from that to learning and engaging with trans issues was seamless... but even many people I went to high school with who moved on still have roots as strong or stronger with their other scattered friends from various life phases than with their current physical neighbors.

Funny enough I find huge overlap with online trans and disability activism/education. Partly because those identities overlap disproportionately, but I think there’s a similar phenomenon going on where the numbers are widely spread making local activism much rarer aside from traveling  advocates.
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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2020, 07:36:16 PM »
I suppose this all depends on how one defines the look of activism. LGBTQ in general have a different relationship to the rules of social space and local community than cishet folk, and I'd even gently argue back that the local is not negligible for a host of reasons. It can be both, has been both, but the internet is a different field of opportunities that's brilliant too. I'll be interested to see how your ideas continue to evolve were you somewhere else geographically.

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2020, 07:46:55 PM »
Yeah, that's certainly a thing.  I can count the number of LGBT folk I've known locally on one hand, all cisgay men, and of them only one did any activism.  And he pretty much dedicated weekends to go to Chicago for it and ultimately moved to LA.
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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2020, 12:25:47 PM »
https://twitter.com/raynerskynews/status/1249053545837604864?s=21

Turns out there’s credible evidence that moderate Labour members engineered complaints against Corbyn, so many it disabled the commissions ability to investigate.
I think I’m going to have a heart attack and die from not-surprise.
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 07:02:27 PM by Cmdr_King »
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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2020, 04:01:26 PM »
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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2020, 02:29:03 AM »
Distraction is so easy nowadays.

So while I was doing four things that weren't working, sleeping, or writing a post I meant to over a week ago, Aimee Stephens did indeed die.  And another event from today has joined with some things I wanted to say about this in my mind, but we'll see if I get that far because I think I'm going to start typing and stop when I don't feel like it anymore rather than trying to make this properly composed.

All I can think about with this case is the limits of the legal system and how... belittled I feel at the grand political level because of it.  Aimee's case was taken up by the ACLU, meaning she never had to directly financially contribute to the case.  But her entire life was still consumed by it, and she fell into financial ruin whilst waiting due to the demands that made of her.  She died waiting for a justice that we all know will never come.  Honestly I expect roughly a 7-2 decision on the question of the case.

And even if it had, the path for those coming after would be little better.  Suing for discrimination damages is a rich person's game.  Trans people are amazingly disproportionately likely to live in complete poverty.  The sort of family safety net that enables people to go after lawsuits are usually denied us.  Employers are pretty good at just not acknowledging why they fired someone and giving themselves plausible deniability.  And yet... no one cares, in politics.  Because we're expendable, and aren't concentrated enough anywhere to affect a single election in the nation, so we get vague, TERF-ass "support" as long as we understand "legitimate concerns" and that means we can just wait on the good graces of the courts that will never come unless Democrats win every election at the national level for 30 years on end.  And if it ever came it wouldn't do anyone any good because god forbid this country have a safety net for healthcare or housing or direct financial support.

And that's the thing.  I think a lot about this question: what does the average liberal think "Trans Rights" would look like, really?  I look at Obergefell and realize oh, they'll just say "We did it!" after one big court case and not take the slightest interest in what sorts of issues trans folk have on the ground, or how easily the spirit of such a ruling could be subverted by bad actors.  Like... god, I don't know if there's a fucking informed consent clinic in a hundred miles of me (I certainly haven't been able to locate one from the internet), and the list of requirements to get a changed gender marker here are comical.  And god knows if my insurance would cover anything should the time come I actually leveraged it for such things.

Granted that assumes the average Democrat isn't actively hostile to trans rights.  Watching them vote for Biden I'm less than certain anymore.  Hard to read someone who's said he would oppose multiple programs that the bulk of trans folk have pushed for winning the nomination, especially considering how basic and universal they are, as anything but packs of boomers wanting us to die.

Another one for that pile of cynicism: so this dropped today.  https://www.thedailybeast.com/jane-roe-confesses-anti-abortion-conversion-all-an-act-paid-for-by-the-christian-right
And I'm seeing so much anger at her over this from liberals.  Traitor to all women and all that.  Sure.  But y'know... this woman didn't get her abortion.  She was homeless at the time.  In a lesbian relationship.  Baby she never wanted and was forced to care for.  So after all that, and that being where she was left after this landmark case for 20 years before the religious right offered a lot of money, an absolutely comical amount for someone with that life... are they actually mad at the betrayal?  Or are liberals upset because she wasn't a good little martyr who did her bit then went away forever because she was politically inconvenient.  Knowing what I know of the history of 2nd wave feminism... I can't dismiss it. 

And fucked if I don't think a lot of liberals didn't breathe a little sigh of relief that Aimee Stephens is no longer with us.

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dunie

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Re: Politics 2020- Politics as Fandom
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2020, 05:21:10 PM »
here to say, somehow i'm getting free things and it's likely because I am a black woman while everyone's whetting their egos for thanking black women voters

and what i really really want for 2021 and beyond is for folk to not lodge us into myths of superwomen or to discuss us in terms of angels or magic because we are very real people with very real concerns as is everyone else

and maybe 2021 and beyond will push that because we have a black (*and south asian) vp though bets are off because she's establishment too