Register

Poll

Which should be my 2nd Water Starter for my All Starter Gen 7 Playthrough?

Feraligatr
0 (0%)
Samurott
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!  (Read 4097 times)

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« on: August 15, 2020, 03:57:25 PM »
So for a while I wanted to play every Final Fantasy game in order from start to finish...but Square-enix won't release the original 6 in easy to get formats that aren't Steam with ugly graphics for some of them, even though it'd be easy money, as well as for some reason won't release FF13 on PS4 despite that ALSO being easy money, so been floundering...

...then after finishing Pokemon Sword and Shield I went "You know, I should do that idea for Pokemon!" and thus decided I would do that!  I'm going through each Pokemon game, mostly in order, based on their sets.  I say "mostly" because technically Emerald came out after Fire Red/Leaf Green, and someone is going to be THAT GUY if I don't address that, but Hoenn predates Kanto-Remakes so screw you, Emerald goes first!  My intended games played are as followed, with bolded means finished, Itallics in process, and anything written after the title means I did some kind of "gimmick" on the playthrough for shits and giggles:

Red: Poison Types Only
Crystal: Gen 2 Pokemon only
Emerald: Hoenn Pokemon only
Leaf Green: Streamed, random shit I haven't used before, all nicknamed.
Platinum:  Streamed.  All pokemon nicknamed after something I haven't used, all Gen 4 originals.
Soul Silver: Gen 2 Pokemon only, but different team than Crystal
Black: No gimmick, because I couldn't think of anything.
Black 2: Starter + One Pokemon from reach generation
X
Alpha Sapphire
Ultra Moon: Starters Only (2 of each typing minimum, and a Generation can only be represented once)

To be clear, yes, I do consider Sun/Moon and Ultra SUn/Ultra Moon as part of the same set, as USUM is really a "3rd version" that was released as a split.  It contrasts BW2 where-in those games are full on sequels and completely different games, just set in the same region.

Anyway, each time I finish a game, I will post a full on rant.  I also posted a poll for you to pick my starter for Emerald.  No I didn't forget Treecko; I purposely left him off because I DON'T want the Grass starter this time, having required it for my Red play-through (read above!), and it got voted in Discord that I go with Chikorita.

So with that out of the way, RANT IN THE NEXT POST!

(Feel free to comment on my rants to engage discussion.)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 05:02:34 AM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection?Rant Topic!
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2020, 03:58:25 PM »
Note that my Gen 1 Rant is going to be Half a Rant, half "reflection on this terrible idea of a playthrough."

Generation 1:

Generation that started it all.  There’s something to be said for it’s simplicity that makes it accessible and makes it age better than you’d think.  At the same time, the games feel archaic and it shows in all the other ways you expect.  Balance is atrocious, both in terms of Pokemon learning god awful level up moves or learning moves so late they don’t even count (Growlithe and Flamethrower anyone?), as well as theType Chart being absolutely terrible.  This is to say nothing of how there are no decent Bug, Poison or Ghost moves, only ONE Fighting type learns worthwhile STABs, and literally not a single Dragon Attack that actually counts as Dragon, and then stuff like Flying HAS decent moves but it’s restricted to who can use them (Granted, Fly is fine in-game...but we’ll get to that later!) It is well known of course just how broken Psychic is as a typing, how bad Fighting is, and how there’s literally only one line for Dragon and Ghost, and both are dual types as well.  Special is a broken stat as well because on top of playing double duty, there’s also very few workable Physical attackers (it says something that Normal is one of the best physical types just because it has actual attacks to use.)

The AI is also absolutely atrocious.  First off, the game lets AI cheat in that they can act based on the exact moment their Pokemon goes, NOT based off the start of the turn.  To demonstrate what I mean…

In later Gens, both actions would be chosen simultaneously, and then Speed/Priority determines which goes first.  So if you have a Fire type out, and the enemy has a Ground move, they’ll probably use it, meaning you can swap into a Flying type to bait the hit out.  Here, if you try to bait, they will go “Oh, you brought out a FLying type!” and hit you with a Rock move.  This is most obvious with Item usage where instead of Items following the same rules as the player (resolves before any Pokemon actions), enemy items resolve when the Pokemon acts, so “oh dear, you hit me down to Pixel Rage -> FULL RESTORE!” Luckily, only Lance with Hyper Potions and Final!Blue with Full Restores make this meaningful, but it’s still obnoxious.  Then there’s the other side of the coin in how their AI is so bad it’s unpredictable.  The infamous “Low Level Venomoth beating Lance’s Dragonite due to Gen 1 AI Quirk in Twitch Plays Pokemon” is not an anomaly; you’ll see it frequently.  I don’t think my Poison playthrough would have been doable if Sabrina or Blue had AI from latter Gens, as they would waste turns doing stuff like Reflect because IT’S A PSYCHIC MOVE, instead of just having their Alakazam’s nuke me outright and call it a day.

Some of the old mechanics really stand out at how ludicrous this game really was.  The massive crit rates are well known, especially in high crit boosting moves like Slash, and while we know stuff like Razor Leaf is kind of OP, it didn’t really stand out to me how OP it really was until it occurred to me that even resisted, Razor Leaf is often Venusaur and Victreebel’s best move, as they are now just 55 STAB attacks that can’t crit, stronger than a majority of other actions they can use.  Likewise, the game lacks so many QoL features that we take for granted now.  Inventory Limits, UI being entirely text (so no graphical shortcuts), no shortcut option, all HMs must be accessed in Pokemon menu instead of just being triggered when necessary, etc.  Speaking of HMs, this problem was even worse here given how limited movesets were (literally nothing but Flying Type Birds can learn Fly, meaning Golbat can’t even HM Slave properly.)

Also the types are kind of uneven in how it handles it.  Water is probably the most glaring example.  If you don’t pick Squirtle, you don’t get a legitimate Water type option outside of raising Magikarp until Celadon City where you can get Vaporeon, and if you don’t pick Vaporeon, you’re actually waiting until after you get the Pokeflute to get the Super Rod where you can finally get some more and then they’re underleveled.  This is especially insulting when the game hands you Bubblebeam extremely early but very little to use it on.   The kicker is that Water is an incredibly large typing in terms of raw quantity, but most are held off until the 2nd half of the game, so you’re being teased with crap like Staryu, Poliwag, Goldeen, etc. for half the game and no way to get them.  Fire types have a problem as well, since they’re relying on Ember for most of the game unless you’re Vulpix who gets Flamethrower in the 30s (Growlithe is hurt the most since it can’t evolve until the 50s to get this integral move, OUCH!)  As a reminder, this is a game where end-game levels are in the mid-40s…

Really, every single problem Gen 1 has can be traced back to one very obvious flaw: It was the first, and had no precedents to go off of.  Hindsight is a hell of a tool to work with, and it’s really no surprise that a lot of the QoL things we take for granted now first appeared in GSC.  This isn’t to say RBY were bad games, but they do have their unique share of problems entirely stemming from that.  They’re good first attempts, but without the nostalgic defense and the “It was their first time, cut them some slack”, it’s hard to defend these games compared to later entries. 

Oh yeah, non-gameplay things...well, Plot is basically non-existent, even for Pokemon.  Evil Team is there because “We should have a villain, right?” when really, just having a rival was probably enough.  To Blue’s credit, he works thematically, as he’s constantly one step ahead of you, even picking the starter with type advantage on you, and pretty much always higher level, given a sense of “he cares more about power than friendship!”  Also they establish that he’s been someone Red’s been butting heads with since they were young anyway.  For this reason, Blue is probably the one rival I can say is a Pokemon game’s true antagonist.  You might think “What about Team Rocket”, but really, they play such a minor role.  Some minor hiccups early on, then you face them in Celadon, then atop Pokemon Tower (which apparently, Mr. Fuji wasn’t even being held captive, he went of his own accord and Team Rocket just happened to get there around the same time you did!), then Saffron City...and then they’re gone until you face Giovanni for your last badge.  I guess they really wanted a TRULY EVIL CHARACTER and thus made an EVIL VILLAIN ORGANIZATION, but let’s be real, Team Rocket is kind of “meh” if we ignore their role in the Anime (which is far better usage of them for obvious reasons.)  Blue is literally your first and last opponent, and you fight him no less than 8 times, and the game’s real story is “Become a Pokemon Master!” which getting the 8 Badges and beating the Elite 4 is directly related to that.  Also, Blue goes on about catching all these Pokemon, so he’s in direct competition.  So yeah, screw it, Blue is the game’s true Main Antagonist, Team Rocket is just the game’s Seymour, and unfortunately, Team Rocket lacks the anime quality to make them as awesome!

Music is a bunch of classic themes we all known and love.  The Trainer Battle Theme is still a great template for later games to build off, being more upbeat and engaging of in contrast to the Wild Theme which feels more like “Oh, here’s a roadblock, get rid of it...or catch it” though later games would make the WIld Pokemon Themes a little more interesting.  Graphics are all over the place; some sprites are pretty good in-spite being the Gameboy, then we have some that are abysmal (like half the Pokemon backsides you can’t even figure out what they’re suppose to be.)  Just thought I’d get these out there.

POISON TYPE ONLY PLAYTHROUGH:
Ok, because this game is RBY and thus I know it too easy when it’s just “Grab a Psychic type, slaughter everything!”, i decided to go with a forced typing restriction, picking Poison because Poison is terrible in RBY due to no good STABs and weakness to Psychic.  So naturally I picked Bulbasaur as my starter.  Early on, grabbed both Nidorans and Weedle so I’d have more than Bulbasaur, not that I needed help for Brock, but figured it could help with Mt. Moon, where I grabbed Zubat as well.  Mt. Moon is hell because Zubats everywhere and the usual failsafes of Pikachu and Butterfree (and Geodude caught within) to slaughter them aren’t there.  The high level Raticate fight was tricky because of the lack of Geodude (the Go To option to not die to it), and I am reminded of something from RBY that doesn’t exist in later games:

Rattatas and Pidgeys are the most annoying thing to fight for a large part of the game.  Rattata get STABs on moves that most early game Pokemon do not, and they have high Attack and Speed for the time, AND eventually Quick Attack and Hyper Fang, so they can be legit annoying to overpower.  Pidgeys have STAB Gust, Quick Attack and Sand-Attack, which again are annoying.  In a normal playthrough, you’d have stuff to counter, but here?  Between garbage movesets and no real tanks, I’d groan anytime I saw one of them early game.  Nidoran-male learning Horn Attack is a hell of a help since it’s like “FINALLY something that isn’t Scratch or Tackle.”

Grab Ekans after Mt. Moon, and I can’t wait for him and Zubat to learn Bite so they both have a real move.  Nidoran Male evolves into Nidorino, hold off on evolution until after Misty just in case, get Oddish who then proceeds to mostly shut down Misty entirely, and ditch Beedrill.  Get Nidoking and TIME TO GET A STAB GROUND MOVE IN DI-*Nidoking can’t learn it* ...go to hell, Gen 1 movesets :(

I get my First Wipe on the way to Vermillion, which is a level 20 Butterfree that was spamming Confusion, crit every regularly, and one turn I did get, Oddish missed an integral Stun Spore.  I can already feel the pains of high level Psychic types soon to come.

I grab Farfetch’d to be a Fly/Cut slave (and then teach Oddish Cut ANYWAY, because it’s better than basically any other Off-STAB it can get -_-), give Body Slam to Ivysaur for a legit damage move, Nidoking Horn Attack proves helpful, Ekans learns Bite so it can actually provide something, Nidorina evolves, and it...remains kind of “meh” because WHY GET SCRATCH AFTER TACKLE!? Yes it’s technically better but very marginally so...oh it can learn Bubblebeam, ok, that’ll do!  Pity I didn’t realize that until later so Rock Tunnel later is a chore.  Blue’s Kadabra is my first fear, but he loves to spam Disable so I kick his ass.  Nidoking walks over Surge, Rocket Game Corner is easy because my team is slowly getting something resembling real movesets.  Pokemon Tower provides me with Gastly, which beats up the Saffron Dojo and becomes Haunter.  Haunter is a huge gain since it can learn Psychic AND Thunderbolt.  I just wish I could make Gengar, but Haunter’s stats are good for a Stage 2 Pokemon so it’s a staple.  I get Venonat and Tentacool, and the latter being LEvel 5 has to be raised a crap ton.  I’ll say this now: Venomoth was disappointing because it gets moves too late, though it still helped me out in clutch points, most notably against Sabrina where her AI moronically used Reflect as Alakazam, letting Venomoth Stun Spore and that made the fight actually do-able!  I’ll say this now: Alakazam AI Idiocy is the ONLY thing that made this challenge do-able without massive grinding, as Blue’s Alakazam remains deadly the entire game.

At this point, my team is basically solidified to the following:

Venusaur: Grass type, gets Razor Leaf which as I said before is BROKEN, Body Slam as a back up, Leech Seed sometimes for an extra DoT.
Nidoking: Physical Power House, has STAB EQ, can use Strength and Thrash to prevent massive PP Usage, gave him Rock Slide to nuke things.
Tentacruel: Actual Water type, high Special, good speed, has STAB Surf, what more could I want? Oh yeah, taught it Ice Beam (has more PP than Blizzard, suffices for my purposes, held off on teaching it Blizzard just in case.)
Nidoqueen: Back Up Water type damage dealer, gave it Fire Blast because it and Nidoking were the only ones who can learn it...mostly just filler 6th who was better than my other options.
Haunter: Can learn Psychic and T-bolt, do I really need to say anything else?
Venomoth: Learns Psychic naturally...but too late.  Psybeam is alright, but it gets a lot of Status moves at least, Stun Spore was integral for beating Sabrina and Blue’s Alakazam.

I had 2 legit resets.  Once against the Butterfree, and once against Blue who got me in a Fire Spin lock (oh yeah, add that to another “Stupid Gen 1 Mechanics I’m glad were completely reworked” thing...and the way Sleep worked as well for that matter!) late in the fight.  His Alakazam the first time used Reflect on Venomoth, Stun Spore, became bearable.  Refight, he actually one shotted Venomoth, Nidoking proceeds to one shot it through Reflect because Gen 1 AI Idiocy. 

It was an interesting run, mostly got better as it went on because GOOD GOD early game Gen 1 movesets are terrible, and the amount of things getting POISON STING and my lack of STABs and...look, let’s just say I am so glad they realized that ultra highly limiting movesets don’t add to strategy, they just make things less fun, and am so glad they fixed that later.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 04:35:01 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2020, 09:51:57 PM »
Generation 2:

This Generation I have a bunch of mixed feelings about.  My Pokemon hiatus that a lot of older fans go through (stop playing games because you “outgrow them” -> come back years later go “oh right, these were fun!” and appreciate them on a different level) happened just before Gen 2 came out, so I have little nostalgic attachment to them the way I do Gen 1, though I did play Gen 2 before any of the Gen 3 games so there you go.

…but no one cares about that!  The important thing is how is Gen 2 as a whole? As I said, mixed feelings.  So first let’s go over the good.

The big thing Gen 2 brings to the table is, frankly, a lot of features, standards, and quality of life that Pokemon takes for granted now.  Inventory is fixed (though not perfect, I’ll get to that later) so that now you can hoard TMs and Pokeballs, and integral Key Items don’t take up inventory space which was a huge deal in Gen 1.  The ability to register a single item to use with just one button is a nice perk, as not having to access the menu every time I want to go on the Bicycle is big, and being able to access HM abilities simply by interacting with the proper context saves time as well (eg if you have Surf and interact with Water, the game will ask you if you want to Surf.)  If any of these weren’t in Gold/Silver and added in Crystal specifically, I don’t know, I’m basing this off of Red/Blue -> Crystal.  Also little things like the Move Deleter allowing you some flexibility with HMs so “Oh I need this HM ability for literally ONE MOMENT, and then want that slot open later”, you can do it!  Likewise, seeing an EXP Bar in combat is nice as helps you keep track of how close something is to leveling, and I believe the game won’t “skip” levels if you get too much EXP, so a Pokemon won’t miss out on learning a move (I know in Gen 1, if you got a Pidgey from Level 4 to Level 6, it won’t get Sand Attack, a level 5 skill.)  Arguably more gameplay changes but adding them into QoL things Sleep is no longer an auto “Win” status if you’re faster, and Wrap mechanics completely redone such that enemies spamming them no longer make you groan are further examples of “learning from their mistakes in Gen 1.”

Which also segues nicely into Gameplay factors that are less QoL.  Gen 2 did a lot of big things here.  Held Items make their first appearance, giving Pokemon an extra slight bit of customization.  The Special stat split now means Pokemon stats are a lot more flexible, which is a huge deal, as Special is no longer a god stat.  2 New typings to help with the type chart, making Psychic no longer godlike (though still good), and Fighting no longer complete garbage.  Also every typing now has something resembling real moves and things to use them with like Fighting getting Cross Chop, Poison getting Sludge Bomb and Grass getting...uhh...er...ok, Grass still has issues here!  A readjusted type chart as well, so now Ghosts can actually hurt Psychics, Fire resisting Ice so it’s less garbage defensively, Poison and Bug no longer hit weakness on each other because...wait, why was this done? Ok, Bug now has Dark types to hit and real Bug moves to hit Psychics with so I get THAT, but what’s the excuse for nerfing Poison in a Generation that introduced a typing COMPLETELY IMMUNE TO POISON TYPES?  Yeah, that’ll be a theme you’ll notice about Gen 2 in the future: Things aren’t the most well thought out.  Day/Night Cycle is something else added but I’ll get to that in the flaws (yes, it’s a flaw, you’ll see why.) And of course, they added 100 NEW POKEMON!!!

...which segues into the start of the negatives.  While I didn’t play Gen 2 in its heyday, I absolutely remember it’s big marketing push was “100 NEW POKEMON!!!” as it’s thrust.  That’s all well and good, and naturally you’d think the game would make you want to use them, right?  Well, this is where Gen 2’s flaws start to show up.  The game is still too attached to Gen 1 in many ways that while making many improvements, it doesn’t want to leave Gen 1.  You get new starters (I’ll cover them in a bit), and that’s a good thing!  Then you get to your first route where you fight Pidgey, Rattata, Sentret, and Hoothoot.  Hey, half new and half old, seems fair right?  Well, not really; Rattata is very clearly way better than Sentret if you glance at their stats and Rattata even has a better moveset early on.  Hoothoot is also only available at night, so if you play during the day, oops!  And Hoothoot is pretty terrible as well.  This here starts the first problem with the region: Way too many Gen 1 Pokemon everywhere.  Rather than making a new interesting Psychic type, screw that, here’s Abra again!  Hey, want a strong rock tank? Well here’s Geodude AND Onyx available early on! Oh yeah, Gastly’s around early game as well, he’s neat!  It leads to a case of “Why would I use these new guys when the old things I remember being super awesome in Gen 1 are readily available?”   It should be the other way around: Throw a lot of Gen 2s are you, and then make the Gen 1ers more sporadic, so you’re encouraged to use the new guys, simply out of options (and we see this done with great effect in Gen 3, but I’m getting ahead of myself.)

To make matters worse?  Gen 2 Pokemon are overall unimpressive compared to Gen 1.  I just demonstrated with the Birds and Rodents (if I threw Spearow in there it’d be especially bad!), but this remains on-going.  Many Gen 2 Pokemon either have garbage stats for their builds (high Sneasel of the Dual-Special types with garbage special attack), or they don’t get a moveset to support it.  Heracross is maybe one of the biggest offenders here; he’s well known for being one of the reasons Bug types stopped being disrespected, and on paper it makes sense! Lots of Attack, 2 physical STABs, and passable speed.  In-game? It’s terrible, getting no legitimate STAB until level 44 and that’s Reversal, you know the move that sucks until Heracross is near dead?  Doesn’t get it’s trademark Megahorn until 54!   It relies heavily on a Non-STAB Strength to do damage, which should say everything right there.  This is one of the many examples of Gen 2 Pokemon being crappy. Oh, and some of the few that are neat, like Houndoom?  Screw that, can’t get it until Kanto where it’s underleveled!  Speaking of levels, reminder that Johto part of the game levels end in the 30s (the legendaries are level 40), so this makes anything high level ESPECIALLY insulting.  In contrast, Gen 1 Pokemon tend to not have this issue.  Also doesn’t help that many of the good Gen 2ers are just evolutions of garbage Gen 1ers (oh hi Crobat!), and in some cases, PRE-EVOLUTIONS of Gen 1ers that no one asked for (ok, Elekid, Magby and Smoochum are fine, since getting Electabuzz, Magmar and Jynx that early would be kind of OP, so it’s a fair balance.  I’m more talking about stuff like Cleffa and Igglybuff who have no reason to exist.)   But hey, that’s ok, because Gym Leaders tend to show off cool new Pokemon right?

Yeah, see...they don’t.  The first Gym leader as we know is Falkner and what does he use? Pidgey and Pidgeotto.  Now I get it, they didn’t want to throw a fully evolved Pokemon at you that early, but why wasn’t that Pidgey something like Hoothoot to go “look at this new thing!”  There’s a bunch of new Bug types and Bugsy uses Metapod, Kakuna and Scyther? Ok, I get why Scyther since maybe Heracross and Scizor could be tough that early but WHY WOULD A GYM LEADER USE METAPOD AND KAKUNA!?  Why isn’t one of them Spinarak and/or Ledyba?  It isn’t until Whitney that we finally see something new and exciting in her Miltank...then we have 2 more Gyms with pure Gen 1ers and oh hey, Jasmine has Steelix...an evolution of a Gen 1 Pokemon...Claire’s no better in that respect, but I’m willing to cut her some slack as it’s a result of lack of options, where as Jasmine could have used something like Skarmory.  What, I skipped Pryce? He’s a scrub, no one cares about him!

Oh yeah, briefly wanna touch on the starters.  This may one of the more balanced sets of starters, but partially because they’re so...mediocre?  On paper, Typhlosion should be the best, but the low leveling curve means it gets Flame Wheel later than expected, and it’s big niche (Thunderpunching Fire type with good speed and special attack) doesn’t kick until it evolves at level 36.  Meganium’s offense leaves a lot to be desired, and a defensive Pure-Grass type doesn’t work as well in practice.  Feraligatr is also about as bog-standard a Water type as you can get, which means he has a lot of competition in this region.   Speaking of Water types, they’re kind of super dominant in Gen 2 for that simple “low level” reason.  While most Pokemon when you get to the E4 in Johto are still relying on moves of 50-70 power, every Water type has easy access to a 95 power STAB with 100% accuracy.  Normal types have it nicely too with Strength (Ursaring is really damn effective as a result, having monstrous Attack and STAB Strength), though they can’t hit weakness, and Gen 2 has a lot more Physical tanks than specials. 

Also, enemies tend to be really boring in their builds this time around.  I say this because nearly every enemy has one of Accuracy lowering (usually Sand Attack), Bite off something fast, or Confusion.  This makes fights just take longer than necessary, and can even lead to scrub enemies doing more damage than necessary simply because the RNG hated you (the RNG was horrible for me in this game, don’t get me started on that!)  If you aren’t built to take on Poison types (which again, Gen 2 Pokemon are TERRIBLE at due to lack of Ground moves and decent psychic types, so hope you’re using those classic Gen 1ers!), you’re bound to take that much longer.  Trainers are also all over the place in terms of levels, being one moment higher than you, then suddenly the next route, everything is 5 levels lower. 

Again the above is primarily based entirely off Johto; not really going into a Kanto review, since it’s more of the same, just higher levels and different Pokemon...and less plot.

Lastly, a few features added that I feel don’t really add anything to the game but people complained about them not being in Gen 3 (and later Gens), mostly because “wah they removed it!”  First is Day/Night cycle.  I have yet to see this actually be used well in a Pokemon game if you want me to be brutally honest.  All it does is force you to play at certain times of the day (unless you just abuse your in-game timer, in which case, what’s the point of it?) if you want to catch Certain Pokemon or trigger certain evolutions or what.  It’s a limiting factor that doesn’t really add anything.  It’s a standard now but again, I really still have not seen it adding anything other than “Muh immersion!” and just “Something new for newness sake!”  Would prefer the game just followed it’s own cycle, and you could manipulate time with various ways like “Sleeping = Instant morning!” and such, like most games handle it.  That leads into another feature which is daily aspects.  Resetting things daily and expecting you to do things, or having things available only on certain days is, again, not a feature that really adds anything other than “Force plays to players on these days!”  Pokemon is MMOing it up before MMOs really took off, and it’s not an MMO! 

The last is the Phone system.  I get it; they wanted you to be more interactive with trainers and refight them, get items, etc.  It’s neat in theory, but more cumbersome in practice.  Having to go find that one trainer just because they called you to get an item is going to slow the game down and of course, the fact that you can do something then Phone Call - > “HEY I JUST SAW THIS :PIDGEY IT WAS AWESOME! I DIDN’T CATCH IT BECAUSE I GOT AWAY!”  And of course, gotta mention YOUNGSTER JOEY, the most infamous of these trainers.  In Johto alone, he called me 17 times...that’s not an exaggeration, I actually kept track.  That’s almost once an hour!  Needless to say, this is a feature I’m glad generally DIDN’t return, in favor of them having things like the Vs. Seeker to refight trainers, as well as generally not reusing Daily aspects again (sometimes they show up, like the Restaurant in Sinnoh, or the Mandibuzz/Braviary in BW2 that appears only on Thursdays, but they’re few and far between, not “Something different each day!” like Johto games loved.)

...and then there’s stuff I didn’t cover above and while this is mostly positive thus making the “Positives -> Negatives” thing completely obsolete, I thought of this after the fact and am NOT rewriting it for coherency.  First off, music takes a massive step in the right direction.  There’s more unique themes for towns, they give your Rival AND Team Rocket their own battle themes, Kanto has different music from Johto to really emphasize different regions, and in Crystal, they gave the Legendary Gerbils their own theme, being the first time they ever emphasized “Legendary Pokemon, THUS SPECIAL!” in such a way, becoming a staple moving forward.  Likewise, for another Crystal specific addition, the option for a Female Protagonist, which makes a lot of sense when the Trainer really is just an avatar of the player, and tangentially, her name being Kris is a rare instance where her name actually both fits the game she represents (Crystal) while still being a real name.  Given they named the rival Silver, you’d think the Male Protagonist is Gold right? NOPE! He’s Ethan! Why? BECAUSE **** YOU that’s why!  Oh yeah, and they delete Kris from HGSS in favor of Lyra because…?

Speaking of characters, there’s definitely sense to use characters more, such as utilizing Lance mid-game to fight Team Rocket.  That’s good!  Then we have to consider the two antagonist aspects of the game: Your Rival and Team Rocket.  First off, your Rival, canonically named Silver.  He’s really just kind of out of nowhere, a punk kid that just exists because you needed a rival.  I know they later establish he’s Giovanni’s son, but I don’t think there’s any hints about this in the Gen 2 era, and didn’t come about until Gen 3 where FRLG references him by design so I can’t really give him credit there.  His entire character is “He only likes strong Pokemon and is a dick!” but then has absolutely no reason to be full of himself.  He loses to you EVERY SINGLE TIME, so his only claim is beating some Gym leaders, which apparently is more common than what RBY implied (they mention that Whitney complains every time she loses, suggesting it’s happened multiple times before.)  I know fans like him because he has “attitude”, but personally, I think an arrogant attitude with no justification behind it is one of the worst things a character can have, as it means “they’re full of themselves, but they have absolutely no reason to be, meaning any humbling that comes later falls flat.”  At least Bede in Gen 8 (I know, jumping way ahead), has the whole “I was endorsed by the President Himself!” aspect, so he’s given a false sense of importance there before needing to be smacked down to reality, but Silver doesn’t even have that.  When he finally appears in the aftergame, having adapted a new mindset similar to yours and shows more respect for you as a result, it just comes off as sudden.  Then we have Team Rocket...here they feel very poorly utilized.  They’re jackhammered in with no real purpose.  It’s pretty much “We must reform the team!” because...Giovanni?  But Giovanni is nowhere in sight, it takes until HGSS with a BONUS SEQUENCE REQUIRING CELEBI to finally tie stuff together and even then, it’s a prime example of how Gen 2 in many ways was too scared to move away from Gen 1.  Thankfully, we get consistently different EVIL TEAMS moving forward, and their goals are always different and diverse (Expand the Landmass! CREATE A NEW WORLD! RELEASE ALL POKEMON! Etc.  Sure, some of these are terribly written but at least they’re distinct.)  Also, the game completely lacked a real Team Rocket lead this time around, just some Execs with unique sprites.  If you’re going to give them unique sprites, at least give them names!  It really just makes the game come to a halt, especially since this time, you have Lance on your side so there’s a whole “He just walks over them effortlessly, doesn’t he?”  True, this would solidify a trope moving forward of the Champion being a friendly face you meet earlier, used more effectively with Steven and Cynthia since they’re introduced the game, while Lance we already knew was an Elite 4 Member (so the “He’s now Champion!” is more just a generic promotion than a big surprise, all things considered.)

Now compare that to Gen 1’s equivalents.  Blue is established from the outset that he was your rival from a young age, and given how little story there is, that works.  It makes sense that he’s so focused on you because it’s personal, whereas who are you to Silver other than some kid who beat him once before in New Bark Town?  Also Blue has a much better pay off in that his journey parallels yours, so the final confrontation as the Pokemon League Champion, with him constantly being one step ahead of you, it makes sense thematically.  Silver is just randomly fought right before the E4, and it’s like “So that’s it?” until the aftergame where he’s all “yo I mellowed out!”  Team Rocket also makes more sense: Evil gang trying to take over the world with Pokemon, and apparently run by a major Crime Boss, and again, better pay off, as there’s a big twist with “He’s the Final Gym Leader, the one in Viridian City at that!”  It’s simple and silly, but it all works with the minimalist angle RBY takes, where as GSC decided “Here’s a bunch of them that stayed together that want to rebuild it without any real leader, HOPING their leader comes back!”  Gen 5 would do the same thing with Team Plasma in BW2...except there they still had Ghestis leading things, and we at that point knew Plasma’s goals were full of crap (N aside), as it was really Ghestis trying to get rid of everyone’s Pokemon so no one could challenge him.  Come BW2, that plan failed, onto plan B: Release Legendary Overpowered Pokemon and beat everyone with it!  Even had a contingency plan in case N or the BW1 Protagonist showed up with their Legendary!  It only works because Ghestis is a consistent element in both games, whereas Team Rocket, lacking Giovanni, just makes Team Rocket feel forced.

Overall, based on the Johto part alone, Gen 2 takes many steps in the right direction, but flubs many other things at the same time.  It fails at its major selling point (“100 New Pokemon!”), while mostly succeeding at the less spoken about points (the major Quality of Life changes making the game feel significantly more modern).  On a technical level, it is superior to Gen 1 in everyway, but when it comes to the more nuanced aspects, it stumbles in ways Gen 1 did not.  As I said,  Gen 2’s biggest short-fallings was a lot of ideas that they didn’t think too well out for a false sense of more content when it’s really more things the player needs to worry about, and it’s fear of straying too far away from the Gen 1 games in many respects.



Kanto will get it's own, brief section at a later date when I finish.  I just wanted to get this out of the way.  And don't worry, I will post the EVER IMPORTANT JOEY COUNTER there...FOR SCIENCE!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 08:02:32 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2020, 08:57:30 PM »
KANTO REFLECTIONS!


Ok, so the idea of having Kanto in the aftergame is cool, since nostalgia and hey, full after game!  More Gyms! And seeing how it has progressed in the 3 years since is nice.  Unfortunately, Kanto itself is not well executed.  This might be a hot take, but there’s a number of problems with Kanto.

First off, it has a massive hard-on for using the Cut HM for various things, be it slight sidepaths to get items that actually aren’t that good, but you have no way of knowing that.  In some cases, you absolutely cannot progress unless you have Cut, usually in the same places you couldn’t in Gen 1.  The difference is in those parts of the game, Cut was still kind of on-par with what you’d be using, between Surge and Erika (and in some cases, Pokemon may not have even learned their 4th move yet!), so it was appropriate.  Here, you have your E4 team, and you’re expected to either drag along a slave for Cut, OR continually swap out like I did, which wastes time.  If it was for purely optional things, I wouldn’t hate it as much, but the fact that you can’t go East of Cerulean (to the Power Plant) or take on Erika without Cut still is ridiculous.  At least with Surge, you can use Surf as an alternate route, and when I first saw that, I was given some semblance of hope that maybe they thought around it, but NOPE!

The entirety of Kanto is kind of a wash for Gameplay, outside of maybe Sabrina and Blue.  Sabrina due to Psychic still not being the easiest to counter due to how hard Dark types are to find (Though Dark types do terrible things to her; I had a level 29 Houndoom murder 2/3rds of her team), and Blue since he’s a level spike with a lot of variety in his team, kind of a test run for Red.  And really, that’s the entirety of what Kanto is: Just a long training montage for Red, stylized after Pokemon Gen 1.

But even as that, it’s not very good, for one simple reason: Trainers are GOD AWFUL.  So on the Victory Road equivalent in Johto (the route right before it, Victory Road itself has no trainers), Trainers are in the mid to low 30s.  That’s appropriate for the time, seeing as the E4/Champion is from 40-50, and like in Gen 1, the E4 is suppose to be a big spike compared to what came before it.  So you get to Kanto and you’re fighting...trainers that are still in that range, only get slightly higher, and then you fight more than a handful of trainers with garbage at level 29.  As a result, you don’t gain that many levels, and you’re mostly just curb stomping everything, even by Ppkemon standards.  The gyms are an exception as the trainers tend to have levels within earshot of the Gym Leader (let’s say the Gym Leader has level 42~ Pokemon, the Trainres will be consistently 35+; I think some even broke 40!), and their Pokemon tend to not be their basic forms too (unless they’re one stagers), so they give decent EXP.  That leads to a 2nd problem though: 3 Gyms are virtually trainer-less.  Brock has only one trainer, and both Blaine and Blue have none.  That’s a lot of potential EXP and half-decent fights gutted right there.

Then there’s the false sense of non-linearity.  Yeah, it seems like you can explore at your own pace...except you can’t.  You end up in Vermillion so of course you tackle Surge first.  Then you go through Saffron and while you don’t have to take on Sabrina, why wouldn’t you?  ONe of the very few moments of true non-linearity kicks in here as both Erika and Jasmine can be tackled whenever you feel like it, but you can’t deal with Misty until you do Power Plant stuff, and since you’re in Cerulean already, why wouldn’t you knock it off then?  After Power Plant, you can finally access Diglett Cave (Snorlax is sleeping there, remember), get to Pewter...which by the way, YOU NEED CUT AGAIN (can’t tell you how pissed I was to get through Diglett Cave only to find I needed Cut just to reach Pewter and had to backtrack to Vermillion), which finally gives you access to Brock and Blaine.  Why do I bring this up?  Because it’s clear they designed it thinking it was more non-linear than it was, which is why the Pokemon levels are so terrible...again, Johto had the same problem with it’s path split.  They really should have just escalated the levels, in accordance to expected order.  I really shouldn’t be fighting a level 29 Marill on the way to Seafoam Island RIGHT BEFORE THE 7TH AFTER GAME GYM. 

Kanto part of the game gets a lot of hype, and I think it’s more people loving the idea, combined with the “whoa, I get to go back to the old area!?” when they were young being the coolest thing.  The problem is the execution really doesn’t work.  I know watching videos that HGSS alleviates some of that, since a particular trainer I had just fought I saw the HGSS version and he was 10 levels higher across the board so at least it addressed that.   People always rag on later games for not having this extensive aftergame like the Johto games do, but I’ll spin it around and simply note that the other games all have a much stronger Maingame.  My final time in this playthrough was under 30 hours, so I’ll be conservative and between the things I didn’t do (Ho-Oh and Lugia), it’s a 30 hour game. Less than 1/3rd of that is in Kanto.  The reality is it feels like Kanto comes off as a supplement to the lackluster Johto region, and later games didn’t have this kind of aftergame as their own base regions were that much more filled (well, maybe not Galar.) 

Red is a neat super boss, I’ll grant, even with his absurd levels.  Just a final test to really test your team, giving you a diverse fight that should grossly out level you, I have to wonder if the mindset was “People are going to throw legendaries at him!” I know in Gold/Silver, the off-cover legendary was level 70 so they were probably balancing around that being used; not really a criticism, just kind of musing.  My entire team, for reference, was 43-44 when I fought Red, and I did liberally abuse Hyper Potions (and one Full Restore) to beat him.

Final Team in Kanto:
Meganium: Kind of lackluster by the end since the enemies being so weak means tanking doesn’t mean much.  THe only thing it really did for me come endgame was set up Reflect which was vital for taking down the Snorlax.
Houndoom: Yeah, I actually raised one, and glad I did; he shuts down annoying Psychic types and is a great Dark type, kind of lackluster as a Fire Type unless you grab a Flamethrower (or Fire Blast) TM, the former being on Wednesdays and Saturdays only (...again, Johto games LOVES their time sensitive bullcrap), though he gets Flamethrower at 41 which is, frankly near the end of Kanto   It remains dumb that they relegated a new Gen 2 Pokemon that’s actually cool specifically to the aftergame.  Took down Red’s Venusaur, and TWICE got Swift -> Swift Crit (I wiped to Red once) against the Espeon >_<
Quagsire: He got Earthquake earlier than expected and was one of my main cannons.  Also shut down Red’s Pikachu, and helped take down the Charizard.
Skarmory: Massive physical tank.  He doesn’t do as well against Venusaur as I thought (though Houndoom had the covered on the refight), but he does survive a single Espeon Psychic, so I gave him Toxic and let that do most of the work.  Said Toxic also saved me against Snorlax.  He probably could have tanked Snorlax, but a bad crit (Through 3 Sand Attacks…) when I was trying to recover my party got him killed, almost costing me the fight.
Ursaring: He’s a nice strong cannon...but was useless against Red, unfortunately, as got one shot by his Snorlax and didn’t see use anywhere else.  Still that STAB Strength off that attack stat goes a long way in Gen 2 games.
Lanturn: Up there for MVP (Quagsire probably main competition.)  Water types, as covered in Johto section, are overbearingly good due to how much stronger Surf is compared to your options for most of the game, hand STAB Electric moves and Thunderwave on top of that, Lanturn helped me out a lot.  Took down Red’s Blastoise pretty well (hey look, resists Ice AND Water, AND has a STAB Weakness hitting move!), did good against Charizard, and was just durable enough to survive Snorlax Body Slams with Reflect up and let Toxic kill. 

Anyway, my end thoughts are Kanto I feel like many view as the massive saving grace of the Johto games because “TWO REGIONS TO EXPLORE!”  The reality is Kanto is a bare-bones region in this game made to supplement a rather bland base region.  If you get over the novelty of “TWO REGIONS!”, it really doesn’t do the game that many favors.  Again, I’d rather a stronger base game than a “robut” aftergame that comes at the cost of sacrificing the main game.

Oh yeah, and of course, the moment EVERYONE HAS BEEN WAITING FOR I THIS REVIEW!

THE FINAL JOEY COUNTERS!!!
Joey Joht: 17
Joey Kanto: 11
Joey Total: 28

Yes, there will be a sequel in Gen 4, don't worry!

That being said, next up, POKEMON EMERALD!  I have decided to make the Tiebreak myself, and thus, my starter for the Hoenn Region (Mk1) will be…


[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 02:59:27 AM »
Generation 3

Hoenn Games:

Generation 3, the very polarized era of Pokemon for a number of reasons.  The original Dexit, except there was an actual legitimate reason to do it and not one that comes across as a lame ass excuse to hide laziness (in short, so many new mechanics that old games just weren’t compatible with.  Tamashi Hiroka in her Ruby/Sapphire review video goes into some depth about this, so check that out if you’re really curious.)  The one generation that disappointed people because ONLY ONE REGION.  The generation that showed a massive drop off in popularity compared to the previous two, and people trying to come up with excuses as to why the games are intrinsically worse when really it’s “I got older and thus didn’t play them until later so I don’t have that nostalgia bias.”  Yes, I did just come out and play the nostalgia card, and now that the donphan in the room has been addressed, we can move on!

I played Emerald, to be fair, which does fix a number of issues Ruby/Sapphire initially had, but then I did play Crystal which did the same for Gen 2, so it’s even footing!  That said, I will get this out of the way now:

My playthrough of Emerald, which did involve me going to every route to fight all trainers I could find, but did not involve fighting the Regis OR Rayquaza still took comparable time to Crystal Version (so 30~ hours).  So yes, the entirety of Hoenn is equal to Johto + Kanto combined, so this whole “SECOND REGION!” nonsense can definitively be filed under the fact that Johto is such a lackluster and small region to begin with, they needed to buff it somehow, so made a watered down version of Kanto.  Then we need factor in that Gen 3 is just much faster than Gen 2 to begin with across the board (I’ll get to that in QoL), and that Emerald has an after game of its own with the Battlefrontier.  Anyone trying to claim Emerald doesn’t have enough content but hypes the Johto games as having a lot needs a right smacking; Johto games don’t have a lot of content, but rather, they give the ILLUSION of a lot of content, by giving you 16 badges, and claiming 2 regions.  Sadly, a lot of people fall for that and think there was content cut compared to the previous games, without actually analyzing the whole quality vs. quantity thing.  Yes, there’s less badges, but there’s more time between the badges, and actual stuff happening throughout the game, rather than cramming a villain plot into a short sequence that doesn’t seem to tie-into anything (see my Johto Rant.)

That being said, first let’s get some actual complaints about these games I have.  The first big one is how long some of the treks become.  In Kanto, there’s that segment of route 12 through 15 that is long, boring, and filled with trainers up the ass to the point where you always choose the bicycle path, and the only reason you do that other route is because it’s a lot of good EXP.  Hoenn has SEVERAL moments like this, some with no real stops along the way.  The most notable example is between Gym 3 and 4 (though there is at least one town.)  This means you either do a lot of backtracking to the Pokemon Center or you have to prepare for really long journeys.  To be fair, any time a PC exists, you can use that to fully heal your team by simply placing them and removing them in the PC immediately, so that helps mitigate the problems.  The problem gets exasperated later in the game when the “Too Much Water” meme kicks in, as surfing routes tend to suck for two reasons: Every single spot has random encounters AND the Wild Pokemon levels are sporadic as hell.  You can at one point fight a level 30 Wingull, which is what you expect, but then fight a level 10 Tentacool, which is a waste of time and PP.  Sometimes the levels are so sporadic, you get high level stuff making your Repels useless too.  As in, yes, IGN’s “Too Much Water” point is actually valid, but terribly articulated for a tl;dr (they SHOULD have said “Too many surfing routes.”  That sums up the problems nicely!)

Also enemy Pokemon tend to be a little samey as the game goes on.  Branching from the Too Much Water, there is a heavy emphasis on Water types in the back half of the game, ESPECIALLY in Emerald where they, for reasons never properly explained to this day, arbitrarily swapped Steven for Wallace.  This means in the back half, you have to deal with Team Aqua, all those surfing routes, along the Swimmers/Fisherman that come with them, Juan, Wallace and over half of Glacia’s Team (as well as a single Crawdawnt used by Sydney)...it really makes things weak to Water feel very hard to use in this game, and that hurts the game.  It’s a pity too because the first half is actually really good about this, in terms of variety.  To add to this, I only now realized that in the entire E4, not a single Pokemon is weak to Ground.  Yes, one of the “Go To” Attack types does not have a single Pokemon weak to it in Emerald E4 (In Ruby/Sapphire, Steven at least has a few things weak.)  Thinking on it, Wallace might be the reason they STOPPED making Champions just “Gym Leader with 6 High Level Pokemon!” as from Cynthia and onward, their teams are all varied.

This segues nicely into the new Pokemon of Gen 3.  This is where I start shifting from seemingly highly negative into the positives.  Gen 3 Pokemon are, for the most part, actually quite good and interesting!  In particular, they’re either interesting lateral shifts from what already exists, trying something new, or just given legit stats to make them work.  For example, let’s look at Swellow and compare its predecessor in Noctowl.  Noctowl as we covered has iffy stats and distributed in all the wrong places, and it’s moveset involves learning nothing that makes you want to use it as a Flying type (Thank god for in-game Fly I guess?)  Swellow, by contrast, has a good stat spread being built around extremely high speed with adequate enough offense, and on top of that, learns Wing Attack early enough to make it a reasonable Flying type option, instead of “relying on Peck until you get Fly.”  Is he the most interesting? No, but at least there’s actual effort in caring more about competency than weird gimmick crap.  You also get cool distribution throughout.  In the first routes of the game, you get access to all of the following:

-The Region Bird (Tailow)
-Region Rodent (Zigzagoon)
-Region Bug (Wurmple)
-An early Dark type who sucks but considering how hard Dark types were to get in Johto I’ll take it (Poochyena)
-Psychic Type (Ralts)
-A water type (Wingull)
-Grass types (Lotad and Seedot, version pending; Shroomish as well if you want to go as far as the forest for “early routes”)

The kicker? Every single one of those are new Pokemon.  See, Hoenn is exactly why I NEVER bought into the “Unova having only new Pokemon was so good, because breath of fresh air!  I don’t have to rely on the same Pidgey and such again!”  Yeah, no, these people have selective memory.  A majority of what you fight in Hoenn are, in fact, Gen 3 originals, and frankly, a lot of the Gen 1 and 2 returners only appear in the Safari Zone (including the likes of Pikachu!)  And this is where Gen 3 Pokemon REALLY shines compared to Gen 2: Not only are the new options way better, you’re encouraged to use them.  At the same time, they have just enough old blood scattered about that if you want to rely on something more familiar, they’re there.  As in, you grab Aron in that first Cave, it’s a Steel/Rock type, that’s cool!  Then you get Geodude, who you know is already really good, and a stable option.  So now your options are either taking the gamble with this new thing that is a neat new typing whose stats seem to be in the right places for its role (Physical tank), or you can choose the classic option you know is good.  It’s a more interesting decision to make than Gen 2 where you get “Gen 1 Pokemon” vs. “Gen 2 Pokemon of same role who are demonstrably worse.”  In Aron vs. Geodude’s case, Aron seems like an interesting lateral shift from Geodude who might be able to do the same role, rather than straight up inferior.  Similar things can be said for Ralts vs. Abra.  There is, however, one consistent flaw that shows up with A LOT of Gen 3 Pokemon, and it only occurred to me when my friend brought it up how common it is:

Lots of Gen 3 Pokemon are very “projecty”; many get good EVENTUALLY, but a lot require a lot of babying early on, it makes wanting to use anything new annoying.  Offhand, here are a list of Gen 3 Pokemon that have this problem:

Ralts (generally underpowered before becoming Kirlia)
Lotad (terrible moveset and stats before becoming Lombre)
Nincada (feels like I can’t do **** with this thing until it becomes Ninjask/Shedinja)
Seedot (IT STARTS WITH BIDE WTF!?  This thing is so bad, you might as well wait until you fight wild Nuzleaf and use one of those if you want a Shiftry)
Eletrike (an electric type that doesn’t have any electrical attacks until level 20 or so...and that could trick you into wasting your Shockwave TM  on it -_-)
Trapinch (one of the worst offenders.  Evolves late, is a 3 stage Pokemon, it’s second stage is arguably WORSE than it’s first stage due to losing attack, only finally becomes good at level 45 when it becomes Flygon)

I’m not counting Bagon or Beldum in that mix since that’s the typical Dragonite-build, and likewise, Feebas as well.  There’s also subtle problems with like how Aggron (and Flygon mentioned above) don’t reach that stage until the 40s, which is close to endgame, and in Aron’s case, you get it ridiculously early, but it doesn’t evolve until low 30s?  And it’s a 3 stager?  So you’re stuck with a stage 1 Pokemon who while good when you first get it, clearly starts becoming underpowered for a large stretch of midgame until it finally evolves into it’s 2nd stage in the back half.  I’m not sure if this recurring trait was intended, or simply poorly thought out balancing.

And of course, gotta talk about the Starters and Legendaries.  The starters this time around decided to try something new and as a result, blow the **** out of the Gen 2 Starters.  All 3 have more specialized stat builds, and in Blaziken and Swampert’s case, given interesting typings to compliment (ah back when a Fire/Fighting starter was an original idea  -_-.)  Sceptile, meanwhile, looks at the rule of “Grass type sweepers don’t work anymore without Sunnybeam” and goes “hold my lemonade!”, deciding to have a stellar 120 speed, good Special Attack, and of course, Leaf Blade, the 70 Power Grass move w/ high Crit Rate, which more than makes up for the whole “Is another Mono Grass type.”  Also all 3 were given some kind of trademark attack, with Leaf Blade, Blaze Kick and Muddy Water; even if some aren’t the greatest moves, it just gives them that much more of an identity as a Starter Pokemon.  The legendaries this time around?  Well, the idea of Weather focused rather than simply redistributing Mewtwo’s stats was a nice touch, the Regis...are boring but hey, they have a clear “Major Tank” theme, and Latios/Latias are...honestly, I don’t know why they’re their; it’s like they felt that “ROAMING LEGENDARIES ARE POPULAR LET’S BRING THEM BACK!” and I really don’t think they are (granted, there are people who whined about them being removed in modern games...but I think these people forget just how annoying they really were.)

Which leads to one of the biggest things Gen 3 did: Gameplay enhancements.  First, the more minor things which, competitive players are going to knife me over, but redoing how EVs and IVs work.  This...I honestly don’t really care much for; it allows for more customization I guess, and IVs were always there in older games, just now there’s values to work with or something.  Whatever, just mentioning it because it exists and if I didn’t mention these, someone would murder me.  Also, Natures exist...and Gen 3 doesn’t really tell you what they do, so that’s point docked off.  Again, another mechanic that exists for Min-maxers, and little else.  No, the big thing is the addition of Special abilities.  Pokemon now have an extra aspect to them making them more than just “Stats, Typing and moveset” as having a passive unique to that Pokemon can make for some interesting strategies.  Doesn’t even have to be something major, it could just be something like seeing another annoying Sand Attack/Smokescreen using Pokemon, and deciding to say screw it and throwing a Keen Eye Pokemon at it.  In fact, this playthrough, several times where Synchronize on my Gardevoir kicked in and suddenly shifted the layout of the fight.  The other big thing is Double Battles.  Honestly, in Gen 3, they’re not the greatest handled, but I can attribute this to it being “the first time” so it being rough around the edges is expected; double battles do get better as the franchise moves on, so unlike Day/Night cycle which I ranted above in Gen 2, this is something I know ends up being fine and is more going through the whole “first time so weren’t sure how it’d work out.”

Then we have Gen 3’s other major contribution: all the Quality of Life improvements compared to Gen 2.  First off, Items are handled even better here.  The inventory limit exists but I didn’t know it existed until this game because there are so many bags and so many slots, you have to be a hoarder to hit there, so it’s honestly minor here instead of a real issue.  Next off, the UI is just way better.  You move through menus better, the Pokemon PC is laid out now with graphics instead of being pure Text, so you can transfer things much more efficiently, and the game is generally a lot faster.  I cannot emphasize this enough: Gen 3 is a much faster engine than Gen 1 and 2.  Graphics, despite being more advanced, are generally smoother and to the point, the text scrolls much faster (best exemplified by Vending Machines), the game gives you Running Shoes that let you have a middle-speed option between Bike and Walking, one that can be used in some indoor areas, the Pokemon layout is now 2x3 instead of just a list of 6 making it slightly faster to navigate, Surfing moves at a pretty quick pace (about on-par with Running, instead of walking).  It’s more than the game just looking nicer, it PLAYS nicer too.

One thing they did screw up, though?  HMs are still a pain in the ass.  Ok, so Cut is not actually necessary outside of side paths, and they do stop using it, I’ll grant that.  Thing is, you still need 3 Water HMs (though one is Surf, so whatever, and they never make you use Dive and Waterfall at the same time, so you can delete one for the other), Strength (still a good move), and worse of all, Rock Smash.  Rock Smash is one of the most insulting HMs around.  It’s basically Cut, only it’s not even good early game (20 power, chance to lower Defense, so even against a typical weakness it’s STILL weaker than Cut), and the game makes you use it throughout the entire game, including Victory Road.  Victory Road this time around, on top of Rock Smash, also makes you bring Flash.  Victory Road as is can be annoying with it’s Wild Pokemon (Zubats being their usual selves, Lairon has Roar, Hariyama has Whirlwind so both can just waste your time if you don’t one shot them, Sableyes can be a pest as well), but making it a bit HM Hell just turns Hoenn Victory Road into one of my least favorite dungeons in the game.

And further showing they learned from Gen 2, the Gyms this time around are really damn good as a whole.  Let’s go through each one to highlight it!

Roxanne is another “First Rock type” ala Brock to help you learn the type chart, but she stands out compared to him in two ways.  First off, she actually has Rock moves, and doesn’t rely on Tackle and Bides.  Secondly, her Nosepass is actually quite strong.  On top of a STAB Rock Tomb being better than anything Brock has, Nosepass is also Mono-Rock instead of Rock/Ground, meaning a Grass or Water type ISN’T an easy kill, especially since Nosepass has really damn good Special Defense (relative to what you have), basically forcing you into an attrition battle, as the quick sweep won’t work.  It’s good at teaching you NOT to just go “Type Advantage -> OVERPOWER LOL” strategies, but thinking outside the box like “well, if I spam Growl, I can lower it’s offense so I can outlast it” or “Hey, maybe I can poison it and hope it kills itself!”

Then we have Brawly, a fighting Gym Leader.  First and foremost, he has a level advantage, so the idea of “Psychic type -> win!” only really works if you snagged an Abra and got it to Kadabra already.  A Bulk Up Machop means you aren’t allowed to keep him alive too long, so any idea of set up on him is a terrible idea.  Then he has a Focus Punch Meditite, who just hits stupid hard, and while very easy to deal with, it again thwarts you from setting up so when he brings out Makuhita, his ace you have no choice but to deal with it, and has a well built set up with no easy counters (...besides Sableye) beyond “kill it before it kills you.”

How does Wattson do this? Why opens with Exploding Voltorb, so while you’re setting up then suddenly it explodes and you lost your Pokemon!  It also has Rollout, encouraging a quick kill as well.  Many of his Pokemon have Sonic Boom, so going “Ground type -> WIN!” doesn’t work (though, Ground type w/ Ground type DAMAGE does terrible things to him; he is not a fan of Marshstomp spamming Mudhsot.)   The rest of his team is nothing stand out, just general strong Pokemon.

And probably the trainer who I think best exemplifies how well handled Gen 3’s Gyms are is Flannery.  Yes, she’s our 2nd Fire type Gym leader, but her team couldn’t be anymore different than Blaine.  Blaine’s team is built entirely around fast offensive Pokemon, but Flannery goes for bulky fire types.  This on paper shouldn’t work at all, and sounds terrible, as she has 4 Pokemon who are all dirt slow, and none of them cover Fires major weaknesses save the Numel and Camerupt vs. Rock, who have a W4s to Water anyway.  First off, she has the levels necessary to not keel over (but at the same time, NOT so high that it feels unfair.)  Her team is built entirely with Overheat on all 4, so anyone of them can whip out stupid high damage at a moment’s notice and kill a Pokemon, and that’s where things get interesting.  See, all of Pokemon know Sunny Day, meaning Water types actually aren’t as effective as you’d think, and that only makes Overheat scarier.  Then you look at the Numel wielding Magnitude meaning the SpA drop isn’t as bad as it could be, the Slugma has Light Screen to protect the team and Smog to...uhh...rarely Poison?  Ok, that move sucks.  The Camerupt has a below the belt trick in Attract, and oh, bringing out your Wingull who immunes Ground and resists Fire?  TAKE DOWN, now it’s dead.  And of course, her ace, Torkoal.  Not only does it have stats that are quite good for the time, it’s bulky and has no W4s, so killing it is hard, it has White Smoke so you can’t lower any of it’s stats, and to add insult to injury, it has a White Herb, so it gets a Drawback Free Overheat on you.  Also has Body Slam for the “physical compliment to Overheat” and Attract for ANOTHER Below the Belt trick.  Flannery took 4 slow Fire type Pokemon, and made an actual scary boss fight with it; if that doesn’t show you how well throughout Emerald’s Gyms are, I don’t know what does.

Norman, meanwhile, takes advantage of Normal types lack of identity, and is quite varied as a result. Opens with Spinda having Confusion to muck around with any set up, then a Belly Drum Linoone that has a big “KILL THIS THING NOW!” sign over it, Vigoroth being well rounded, and Slaking being a war of attrition, who knows Counter to mess with “Dig to avoid active turns” strat.

Winona’s Ace being an Altaria who Dragon Dance and EQ + STAB Aerial Ace, can be quite scary.  Tropius built around Sunny Day, opens with Perish Song Swablu to prevent set up on weakling strats,  Skarmory being Skarmory, and Pelipper is crap.  Also Aerial Ace to prevent Evasion/Accuracy strats on all her Pokemon.  Level is low for a Gym Leader, this isn’t as scary as she should be on paper, a victim of the “long routes” and underestimating how much EXP you get between Gyms in Gen 3 (though Flannery arguably suffers from this more, and well...see what I said there!)

Tate and Lyza are a double battle boss fight, and they sucked a lot in Ruby/Sapphire being “oh look at the two Rock types, it would be ashame if my strongest attack wasn’t a WATER TYPE.”  Here, they get two more Pokemon, a Claydol and Xatu.  As a result, this is a scary fight now as that Claydol can be a ***** to kill thanks to split damage, they open with it and the Xatu so Surf suddenly isn’t the answer to your problems, and IT SPAMS EARTHQUAKE WHEN EVERYTHING ON IT’S TEAM IS IMMUNE, JERK!!!!  The Solrock and Lunatone aren’t particularly threatening so this fight is very front heavy.

Then Juan is more of a well rounded Water type trainer who...to be honest...is kind of boring outside of dickish Double Teaming Resting Kingdra.  If your Set Up Pokemon is Female, that Luvdisc does a poor job preventing you from setting up, because it’s best damage is Water Pulse, and Sweet Kiss isn’t the most reliable and wears off, and flail sucks.  It really contrasts Wallace later in the game who, as expected, has a MUCH stronger team who I was only able to set up on because the numbers worked out nicely in my favor against his Wailord (no seriously; I was able to get him to red, making his Water Spouts pathetic and proccing 2 Full Restores.)

I won’t cover the E4, since the E4 is about what you expect at this point as is the champion, as I just covered, basically just a much better version of the Gym Leader we just fought. 

Gen 3 also has another thing going for it: Actually attempted a real story.  The story it tells is silly, and not well written, but there’s a much stronger attempt here than the previous games.  It’s not just “Evil organization trying to take over the world because they’re run by the Pokemon Mob Leader” like in Gen 1 or “Evil organization trying to revive themselves because...look, the fans expect Team Rocket, we couldn’t think of something better”, no, it’s legitimately 2 warring factions who have extreme ideologies where-in BOTH answers are wrong, and they seem to have an actual end-goal that makes sense.  “Take over the world with Pokemon!” doesn’t make much sense when you consider the Elite 4, Gym Leaders and the Champions are suppose to be bad asses, and it makes even less sense in the sequel.  Trying to change the environment in some way, ultimately culminating in Legendary Pokemon?  Ok, that’s a little tougher to simply stop.  Also, I guess I have to say “EXPAND THE LANDMASS” or someone will murder me for not saying is, so there it is!  Either way, points for effort and trying something different, but I can’t really defend it beyond that.

Also the idea of your father being a Gym leader is a nice incentive to get you started.  It’s more than just “Get Badges because shut up, you’re a rookie trainer!”, now there’s a mid-game goal of “beat your own dad!”, and he says only after you get 4 badges, and when he’s beaten, you have a 5th, so might as well go for the last 3 right?  A nice touch this game did is going with the protagonist you DIDN’T pick as your rival and making them a friendly rival feels less contrived than Silver who just comes out of nowhere and has no reason to give a **** about you; here, Brendan/May are your next door neighbor, and like with Blue, started your journey around the same time.  One flaw though is how they just stop dealing with you too early on, so you never see their fully evolved starter (ORAS fixes that by giving you one last Rival fight after the ending credits, as a nice capstone.)  This game is also the first to have a 2nd rival, in Wally, who when analyzed, does have a charming and cute story.  A kid who unhealthy who really wants to go on a journey, so you help him get started, getting a Ralts as his starter, a Pokemon that can only use Growl, and watching him go from “pathetic” to “strongest trainer outside of the E4” does show how far he’s progressed.  Honestly, I have to wonder why they didn’t just make Wally Steven’s replacement in Emerald, as that would have made sense, and a callback to Gen 1, especially since Wally’s team more resembles a typical balanced Champion team (No, shut up Lance, you suck.)  I guess one flaw Wally does have is you only fight him twice, but then you could argue that makes his final battle all the more impactful, since his first fight is just a Ralts, and it’s pathetic, but then he’s suddenly on VIctory Road with a team of 5 high level Pokemon, all fully evolved? Yikes!

Overall, I’d say Gen 3 is definitely a marked improvement over the previous games.  Yes, it lacks many little bells and whistles Gen 2 had...or at least, that’s what it APPEARS to have, but if you dig deeper, it’s content isn’t actually any less, it’s just presented in the same way, and it actually has a real aftergame to a full game, not an “aftergame to make up for a very short main game.” 

Oh yeah, things to discuss this playthrough!


I played entirely with Gen 3 Pokemon only, mostly to prove a point compared to Gen 2 Pokemon only.  This wasn’t really a challenge, more of a random restriction because Gen 3 has plenty of good Pokemon and as noted, Hoenn is largely Gen 3 Pokemon so you’re encouraged to use the new things anyway.  Not going to go into details on much, but I guess I’ll point out my final team, and a handful of things I used throughout:

Final Team: Blaziken, Gardevoir, Ludicolo, Walrein, Flygon, Manectric
Pokemon I used throughout: Aggron and Swellow
Pokemon I wanted to use but wouldn’t show up because he’s a jerk: Cacturne

Used Brendan as my protagonist this playthrough, will use May on my ORAS playthrough when I get there.  Next up, back to Kanto YET AGAIN with Leaf Green!  Leaf Green playthrough won’t be any kind of challenge or anything, but will be streamed entirely in Discord as I play it, with the added caveat of “make random decisions for Meeple to screw with his game!”


Oh yeah, because I didn't give him enough respect, here's an Aggron!

« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 08:02:21 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2021, 06:52:06 PM »
KANTO GAMES:

So...let’s just get this out of the way:  Fire Red/Leaf Green are literally just the original Kanto games given a Gen 3 makeover.  You can pretty much just take my thoughts on the Kanto region, splice it with my thoughts of Gen 3’s changes, and you basically have an accurate portrayal of what you’re going to get in FRLG.  So instead, the angle I’m taking is how Gen 3 changes the experience, since frankly, these really are just “Red/Blue but better!”  in the ways that matter.

I should make a quick note about this playthrough before saying anything: Due to lacking the cart for reasons I won’t get into, I played it on an Emulator.  So I need to point out a few things in respects to that.  First, I only save state abused once for a Tauros since I was streaming the entire thing, and didn’t want to waste people’s time...also **** the Safari Zone.  Next off, I didn’t use Frameskip at all, so there’s no skewing of the time.  The last, and most notable thing is that I couldn’t save normally due to some stupid options in the emulator I didn’t know about until I was well over an hour in and the game saves the memory problem when loading a state, meaning I’d either lose progress or just say screw it.  I went with the latter.  This shouldn’t be an issue...except that it means I literally cannot play the aftergame as it requires loading up a save file.  As a result, I will not be reviewing the Sevii Islands. 

That said, onto the review itself!
First off, you’ll note one of the aspects I emphasized about Gen 3 is just how much faster the generation is than previous ones.  This was best exemplified in my final time, which was less than 20 hours (literally 19:51 according to the Hall of Fame screen.)  That’s less than my Red playthrough, despite how Leaf Green, I didn’t skip the Power Plant or Seafoam Islands (actually catching Zapdos and Articuno because why not?), as well as the initial Sevii Islands section the game forces you into (as well as catching Moltres along the way.)  Cleaner UI, Running Shoes, Item Register, and just a faster battle system all make the game move a lot faster and it shows.  In Emerald, you could argue it's psychological, but FRLG are pretty much 1 to 1 remakes of RB in the Gen 3 Engine, so the comparison can be made directly.  The only reason a Gen 1 playthrough might be “smoother” is because of how dirt simple it is compared to the remakes that you can playthrough things with a lone Kadabra or something (...also nostalgia…)


Next off, adding in a Female Trainer option for Kanto.  This isn’t really big but it is nice that they retroactively added her in, since hey, Crystal created the idea, and Hoenn followed suit, putting a female option into games that didn’t have one in the remake really helps solidify “Yes, this is an option that’s here to stay” instead of just a gimmick created by Crystal or Hoenn games.  Also, naming her “Leaf” works well enough since it captures the Green aspect that was missing (shut up about how Blue is “Green” in Japan!), but also acknowledges “She was made in the remakes” giving FRLG specifically their own trainer shout-out.  Also “Leaf” is a better name than Red or Blue (though still not the best…)

Challenge is certainly significantly better.  Brock is probably the biggest upgrade, going from “lolsolowithpidgeysandattacknoob” to “Oh, ow, Rock Tomb is mean!”  Yes, Squirtle still murders him, and Bulbasaur does too but the fact that they had to give Charmander Metal Claw specifically in FRLG so you could have SOMETHING to hurt him is notable, as well as adding in Mankeys in an early route to help counter him means Brock doesn’t completely embarrass himself.  Brock also gives you a real TM this time around instead a joke one.  The AI actually using something resembling strategy (if still sometimes derps) makes it harder, as we no longer get “Barrier is a psychic move, IT CAN KILL POISON TYPES!” silliness.  They do compensate in a few areas lowering the levels, but I think that’s a combination of “The Pokemon have EVs now”, and better AI/Movesets, it’d be cruel to fight them as high as they are.  It’s only about 2 levels, granted, so not breaking, but still nice they considered the apples to oranges situation in the two games.

Speaking of which, the TMs make more sense this time around.  Of note, Surge now gives Shockwave, which is worse than Thunderbolt, but actually balanced for this part of the game, Erika’s Giga Drain is likewise the same but in the other direction (as in, “40 Power move THIS LATE really!?” to “ok, this seems decent for now”), Sabrina gives a real move in Calm Mind as opposed to a joke one in Psywave, and Giovanni, being the last Gym Leader, gives you the ever appropriate Earthquake (a hell of a step up from Wallace/Juan giving you Water Pulse in Hoenn seriously WHAT THE ****?).  Additionally, making a lot of older moves become tutors to keep things consistent with Hoenn was a nice as “Oh hey, you still want Mega Punching Geodude? Well this guy teaches it to you!”  Some of the placement of these is random (Mega Kick that early is kind of ridiculous), but so it goes.

And of course, the Gen 3 rebalancing (well, Gen 2 really) allows for so many more usable Pokemon.  Fighting types aren’t a joke anymore, Psychic types aren’t OP since stuff like Bite exists now (yes, no Dark Type Pokemon exist, but there are Dark type attacks at least), Magneton being Steel gives it a purpose, etc.  There is, however, one thing FRLG does that was absolutely annoying and unique to this game and I’m happy HGSS didn’t follow suit: Locking evolutions.  I can’t hold this against the game relative to Gen 1 since, well, Onix being unable to evolve into Steelix due to a stupid mechanic is really no different than ”Onix can’t evolve period”, and I get they were trying consistency, but it just compromises ideas that could be neat.  Oh, want to see how Crobat fairs in Kanto?  SCREW YOU, gotta wait til National Dex, and stick with the awful Golbat the entire game!  HGSS did it more elegantly saying “You can get the Pokemon but they won’t have dex entries”, which thank you! Because that means I can use the legitimately good Mamoswine instead of being stuck with awful Piloswine.

As far as my playthrough this time?  No real quirks other than I streamed the entire game and let some player input.  I did rename a lot of my Pokemon, so here’s what I used and what their nicknames were, which is uncharacteristic of me!


Omniryce the Blastoise: No, I don’t know why I named him the way I did.  Anyway, would you believe me if I said I basically never used Blastoise in a Kanto game?  Weird, I know...also hadn’t used any Water type starters to this point, so let’s fix that!  Anyway, it’s Blastoise, a pretty stock water type, and not much else to say.  Can use Bite at least!

Ralff the Primeape: I wanted to use a Primeape because I never did (beyond Mankey vs. Brock in playthroughs where I used Charmander), so here we are.  Anyway, he’s basically a stock fighting type, being a bit faster and less durable than something like Machamp.  Brick Break being storebought is of course amazing for him, and a huge improvement over the “rely on Submission for STAB” from before. 

Alf Pogs the Fearow: Needed a Flying type, wanted Fearow instead of Pidgeot, TAKES FOREVER TO LEARN DRILL PECK and I don’t think it even did this playthrough before I replaced him, what the hell?  At least Fly exists.  Anyway, it’s Fearow, you know what to expect.

Soakeminu the Raichu: ...it’s Raichu, what else do you want me to say?  Why Soakeminu? Because I was putting random things into the nickname and came out with what is essentially “Soak them, Japanese Dog!”

Dellfox the Ninetails: I’ve never used a Ninetails in something resembling Modern Pokemon (so anything not Gen 1 or 2) so used it here.  It’s fine except for the fact that it was caught at a level just after it force forgets Ember, so I had to grind to get it Flamethrower before it could do real offense.  Thankfully, Vulpix learns Flamethrower at a low level, so it wasn’t as bad as it could be.

Zynx the Jynx: I never used a Jynx before, decided to use it this time as my psychic and ice type, works pretty well! Hate the fact that its in-game trade only thus forced with the BORING dumb name instead of my own personalized stupid one!

No Milk the Tauros: ...probably starting to see a Pattern; never used Tauros, using him here!  He hits pretty hard with Strength, has Intimidate and that’s about it.

Meushalosh the Moltres: Name is because “Meu” is “Molt” in french apparently, and Shalosh means 3 in Hebrew.  Finally got to use Moltres in a setting where he doesn’t suck, and was good for nukings...especially STAB Overheat.


Like I said, there’s really not much to say about this game that wasn’t already covered in the Gen 1 or Gen 3 rants.  This game probably, above all else, exemplifies how far the franchise went in only 2 generations, and that it absolutely taking steps in the right directions. 

Next up, Platinum!  Already decided that I’m that my protagonist is going to be Dawn!  Why? Because Lucas is stupid!!!

My starter on the otherhand will of course be...

[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 04:51:22 PM »
You know, it took me a while...and I blame the fact that I was emulating and other things involved coming out and look, I'm sorry it took this long, HOPEFULLY I can speed up from here!

Generation 4

Ok, so Gen 3 was a reboot for the series, and with it came a lot of QoL things that essentially set the standard for a modernized version of the franchise, which if you get past petty complaints, basically was probably the best thing that could happen to the franchise.  So what does Generation 4 do?  Well, let's dig in!

First off, let me make this clear: I played Platinum.  Why Platinum? Because Diamond/Pearl are basically just publicly released betas, truth be told.  There are a bunch of things, subtle or obvious, Platinum does that should have been in Diamond/Pearl, but strikes me that DP had to hit some kind of deadline, rushed the game, and didn't get the QA those games needed.  That being said, I also played on an emulator because I don't have Platinum; this is the last game I will play this way, as starting with the next title, it's back to the consoles!  That out of the way, let's talk about the game itself.

Let's get the elephant in the room addressed, which is Generation 4's biggest contribution to the series, no questions asked: The Attack split.  This was something that seemed like they wanted to do in Gen 3, but either ran out of time, or simply felt they changed a lot already and didn't want the shift to be too jarring (see how many Dark type Pokemon have massive attack stats, and how EVERY SINGLE DARK TYPE ATTACK that preceded Gen 4 was turned Physical.)  This is a massive game changer, as now suddenly so much flexibility exists, both in terms of what seems viable to use and from the Developer standpoint.  Case in point? Sneasel.  Even disregarding Weavile (who was a needed evolution), suddenly his terrible design direction is not a factor anymore, and he looks like a valid option!  Probably the most extreme example I can think of, but it certainly illustrates just how much this fixed many bad Pokemon designs, as well as opens the door for many interesting ones, as well as fixes Pokemon that got screwed over in Gen 2 by the Special split (Gyarados comes to mind.) 
All those Dark types with high Attack?  Suddenly Crunch is physical (and not screw over Houndoom, they gave him Dark Pulse for a special equivalent, so he's fine.)  A lot of Fire types suddenly are happy too, with Fire Punch, Flare Blitz and Blaze Kick (and Sacred Fire for Ho-Oh) being new physical options (...ok, Flareon and Entei cry in the corner in this generation.)

That said, they still have some questionable design decisions.  Luxray comes to mind, who is basically Electric Flareon but slightly better stats and Intimidate.  He's usable...but for some reason they never made a physical Electric move stronger than Spark for most Pokemon (A handful get Thunder Punch and Pikachu gets Volt Tackle; that's it!), so you feel a lot of wasted potential.  I get that things weren't perfect, but you'd think "Hey, maybe we should make some generalized Physical electric move for these new Physical Electric types we're creating!?" would be an obvious thing.  Not even asking for anything major, just something like "Electric Crunch" would make a lot of them happy!  I digress, that whining is nitpicking; this change was a massive one and for the better, and suddenly the game is a lot more interesting. 

The Sinnoh Region itself is...honestly kind of average?  Nothing too bad going on, and Platinum did fix a lot of the DP availability problems, increasing the Region dex substantially (HOLY SHIT! The Fire Elite 4 Member can actually use a full team of Fire types now), but I can't help but feel, Surfing routes aside, it's a step down from Hoenn in a number of ways.  I dunno, it's hard to say, but feels more forgettable in most ways...Route 209 and surrounding areas not withstanding because GOD DAMN IT that one Piano Song is so relaxing (...and of course that made it the PERFECT option for a Smash theme...)
Though there are some terrible things about Sinnoh that need to be addressed, namely the Fog routes and the Snow routes.  Fog routes are a terrible idea and exist purely to justify a new HM in Defog, a useless skill (in Gen 4) in battle that is the epitome of "Wasting a spot on your team", unless you make a team of a lot of perfect accuracy moves because THAT'S SO MUCH BETTER RIGHT!?  I'm glad they figured out Fog was a terrible idea for a new weather, and they never did anything with it after Gen 4.  Snow routes are bad because A. Hail is a pain in the ass and helps highlight a problem of this generation I will get to later, B. Because you can't use the bicycle slowing things down significantly and C. DEEP SNOW IS A TERRIBLE MECHANIC.  It serves no purpose other than to slow you down further, making you unable to run, thereby just wastes your time in every sense of the word.

And there-in lies Gen 4's biggest downfall: Time wasting.  It is an inefficient game.  It relies heavily on HMs more than other games, complete with creating stuff like Rock Climb and Victory Road itself uses nearly every one of them (TO BE FAIR: They made Rock Smash not completely garbage for an early game move, upping it's power to 40, what is basically "Minimum to be usable") and you really need a slave.  In fact, Victory Road in itself is offensive because of how many HMs you need, meaning you need to either gimp a lot of moves on your team, leave the dungeon, go to the Move Deleter after the fact to prep for the E4 (because we didn't already spend a lot of time on this game), OR use an HM slave, and get through the games dungeon with functionally 5 Pokemon.  Yes, Hoenn had HMs too in Victory Road, but nothing as bad as what
Sinnoh's did.  In fact, Sinnoh's Victory Road is kind of terrible.  The Trainers are NOT good; there's a guise of variety in them, but I streamed the entire game and anyone watching can tell you, despite being a tad lower leveled with them and not using optimal attacks, I was kind of crushing them left and right.  The enemies in the dungeon, while not Zubats, are basically all "Throw water type at them, win!", since they're primarily Ground types...except for those level 50 Floatzel when you surf, and those are pathetic due to Floatzel having a **** level up set (Floatzel is not actually an example of the aforementioned moveset issue, since the Waterfall HM exists, so using one in-game is very reasonable.)  IT was reaching a "Get on with it!" at one point and OH LOOK BICYCLE PUZZLES TOO YAY (Fuck bicycle puzzles.)
I did a lot of Victory Road without Repels on because I wanted a little bit of extra push for EXP, since I know the Sinnoh E4 aren't a push over...especially the Champion...but we'll get to that later!

And then back to why Hail was terrible on routes?  Well, the Gen 4 engine is SLOW.  Remember how I said Gen 3's is stupid fast compared to Gen 1/2, that despite more elaborate...everything...fights go by much faster, since small details like "Health Gauge Decrease speed" was really fast?  Yeah, Gen 4 isn't like that at all; I don't know if it's Slower than Gen 1/2, or that's just an animation thing.  It gets really bad once you have a double battle in the Sand or Hail, and no one is using appropriate Pokemon to immune the weather, sitting through 4 hits (which is why those northern Snow routes are so bad; even just single battles are a pain.)  I don't recall HGSS being this slow...we'll see when I get there...so maybe they modified the engine since?
This is, no doubt, the Sinnoh games' biggest problem as I said: The games aren't fast, they're slow and do a lot of little things that waste your time.  To be fair, they did learn 2 things from Diamond and Pearl: Surf Speed is now back to Running speed instead of walking Speed, and they added a "back" button on the Poketch.

The game does have a lot of random bell's and whistle's in the form of mini-games, bases, GTS (which was really cool when it was around), first-time you can do multiplayer stuff without any added accessories, what have you, but I can only give so much credit to that.  Poketch is a neat in-game thing too, in particular being able to have a map displayed at all times letting you know how close you are to the next area without having to constantly reference your map (as well makes chasing down runners less annoying as you don't need to keep clicking the Pokedex.)

The Gym Leaders are okish in this game.  I didn't see any particular stand outs like, say, Flannery of Hoenn aka "She uses 4 slow Fire types WHY IS SHE SUCH A THREAT!?" but they also didn't feel like they were complete jokes ala many Johto Gym Leaders...we'll call them very middle of the ground.  The same design philosophy as Hoenn, but toned down a bit.  I don't really feel like going into each Gym Leader because of them weren't impactful, just that I did have to put real effort into beating them, but rarely was it "Ok, s/he kicked my ass...what did I do wrong and what can I do to not be completely boned without grinding?"  The E4 is mostly similar...and then we get Cynthia!

Oh boy...Cynthia is on a whole other level.  First off, in Platinum, they did "nerf" her by replacing her Gastrodon with Togekiss (allows for easier weakness hitting I guess), and possibly one other thing...but she's an absolute terror.  She definitively wins the award for "Hardest Pokemon Champion hands down."  Gone are the thematic teams of Lance, Steven and Wallace (though Stevens' theme is a bit more ambiguous), instead she has a team that resembles something an actual player would use with varied skillsets and the level advantage and GOOD GOD IS SHE MEAN!  I eventually just item spam abused her because I mostly wanted Platinum done by this point.  Also the game just loved to fuck me with RNG constantly getting crits when it would screw my strategy up (like how one strat was an intimidate chain to ruin her Garchomp's physicals WAIT WHY DID DRAGON RUSH CRIT NO!!!)
Cynthia's a great boss...but good lord is she mean.  I can see why none of the Champions after were nearly this hard because I think to some degree they may have gone a little too EVIL with her.  She's not poorly designed, she's just mean, cruel, and an example of why Gamefreak hates you and everything you stand for.
...well, ok, Leon's actually pretty darn good himself, but that may just be because the rest of his game is so lacking in difficulty, the sudden massive spike to "You're not overleveled, and his team is actually COMPETENT" catches you way off guard...look, I don't have a lot of good things to say about Sword and Shield, so let me have this "Final Boss is actually good!" moment ok?

So what about the plot? ...it's Pokemon plot, the villain is basically "I WILL CREATE MY OWN WORLD BECAUSE ANIME EVIL VILLAIN GUY!" and Cyrus is crap.  Team Galactic, however, is hilarious.  They're very clearly written as some kind of parody of the previous villain teams, with a strong sense of self awareness like "I'm just a generic mook that stands no chance against you...let's fight!" style lines and when he's beaten it's like "I mean...we both knew this would happen!" They even make comments like "I'm not even sure what Team Galactic's goals are BUT I WILL FOLLOW THEM TO THE END!" because half the time you do wonder "wait, why are these people working for the bad guy team?"  Barry as a rival is...well, he has personality that can be summed up as "Video Game Interpretation of ADHD", Lucas is dull as fuck, exists just so you can get the other starters in your dex.

That said, thoughts on the team I used throughout:

GAME THEME: Must use Gen 4 originals (Things that evolve into new forms count, mind you), everything nicknamed from a property not Pokemon...beavers not withstanding...

AzureRappy the Empoleon: Special tank, steel type is a blessing and a curse as it gives a lot of resists but then you remember Empoleon isn't as good at countering Fire as you'd think...and she (yes ANOTHER female starter) was my only special attacker on my team because I'm terrible at planning!

Derp Lord the Bibarel: HM Slave, what'd you expect?

Star-Ya-Ku the Staraptor: Named after a Monster Hunter monster because shut up, it's a Staraptor! We know how they are!  One thing I had forgotten is just how Staraptor's can't take special attacks worth shit, getting constantly one shot by any special attack that wasn't resisted.

Zinogacuga the Luxray:  Finally used a Luxray, and being an Electric Sphinx, of course I'm naming as some kind of combo between Zinogre and Nargacuga!  Anyway, I already covered Luxray above more or less, and it was about what I expected; I made sure to get an intimidate because Rivalry is terrible.  It and Star-Ya-Ku having intimidate allowed for fun strategies with Intimidate chains due to how different their typings are for baiting moves (especially if the enemy had a Ground move.)

Lilymon the Budew: I wanted to use a Roserade but HAPPINESS EVOLUTIONS ARE STUPID AND BAD AND SHOULD FEEL BACK FUCK YOU GAME FOR NOT LETTING MY BUDEW EVOLVE AND oh look an Eevee...

Youkomon the Leafeon: Finally got a chance to use Leafeon and...this generation hates Leafeon.  Best physical grass move it can get before level 71 and the E4? RAZOR LEAF, because who needs Leaf Blade right?  At least it can get X-scissor for some coverage, and Secret Power works for some kind of way to hurt Grasses.  Kind of disappointing, to be honest...but it sure is one hell of a physical tank.

Thranduil the Gallade: Also always wanted to use one of these, finally did!  Pretty good as it gets Psycho Cut and Brick Break not too late giving it good STABs and you can get it without too much difficulty stuff like Leaf Blade and Night Slash for coverage.  Physical Fighter with high Special Defense was quite a perk too, though it's speed was disappointing, and the Psychic/Fighting led to situations like "Oh hey, it can resist that Alakazam Psychic!" "...it's neutral because Fighting" "Ah, fuck, you're right."

Nibelsnarf the Garchomp: Finally got to use this too!  While Garchomp evolves below 50, you still aren't seeing one until Victory Road, where it's stuck as a Gabite until then, where it's...usable but not amazing.  Also doesn't get a Ground (physical) move naturally until quite late which is annoying so it's either use a Dig/EQ TM on it, or wait til it evolves.  It does have Dragon Rage when that is still ludicrously strong, and gets Dragon Claw at a reasonable point at least, and Garchomp is infact really damn good.


So overall, Gen 4 made some notable changes, but the core games are hit hard by the fact that the game is just slower.  I finished with a time of about 31 hours, and I think a fair amount of that is just battles taking longer, and shit like backtracking (though nowhere near as bad as Gen 2 Kanto's obsession with requiring Cut at bullshit moments at least), and just generally what feels like a less polished game than Gen 3 in a number of ways.  Which is weird, because you'd think with Pokemon's "move forward" philosophy, Gen 4 should just be better than Gen 3 at least in the enhanced Platinum version, but after finishing the game, there was a sense of "I really don't feel like doing this anymore."

SO OF COURSE MY NEXT GAME IS STILL GEN 4! Namely Soul Silver, and my Starter will be...

« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 04:53:08 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2021, 06:28:43 PM »
Gen 2 Remakes

Ok so first off, before I talk about these in detail, I have a disappointing thing I need to bring up:
Joey kind of stopped contacting me after the 11th time, so the Joey counter was kind of retired.  Yes, this is sad and I was hoping for it to be far higher so I could combine it with Crystals, but "11 times in a 40+ hour file" is kind of pathetic. 

With that out of the way, there was a time I felt there was a strong case to be made for HGSS being the best games in the series.  Between having the modern QoL things that were necessary, the extensive aftergame, the "Hey look basically every Legendary is available in some form if they aren't from Sinnoh!" feature, among a crap ton of content, there was a strong case.  Does it hold up? Let's look into it...and yes, I know, I sound like a cliche youtube video, shut up.

So the first thing to note is that the game runs off the Gen 4 Engine.  This didn't feel quite as annoying as the Gen 4 games, so it's likely modified and fixed a bit to be faster, though the slowness starts to kick in later when the HP values get big and you see the progression slowly; it was most obvious when you tried Hyper Potioning late game Pokemon or hit Red's Snorlax with a big attack.  If I had to guess, the problem here stems from how "HP goes down 1 at a time" and the bar moves with it, where as Gen 3's engine was "Goes down based off HP %", so the speed is universalized.  I recently rewatched a video by Team Four Star of their Emerald Playthrough and had forgotten just how much faster that HP Gauge moves compared even Soul Silver.  Suffice it to say the Gen 4 engine is just slow. 

Next off, HGSS does in fact fix up Kanto significantly.  The Gym leaders were given a big level boost and actually have a real challenge in some cases (others do a poor job at covering their type's issues.)  The Trainers throughout the region are still curbstomped, but most now have real levels so you get a sense of progression.  They changed the aftergame Pokemon too, now incorporating Hoenn and Sinnoh Pokemon which is cool, and it didn't feel like a total waste of time fighting them (...except the route between Pallet and Cinnabar, those trainers are underpowered for god knows what reason; you can't get there after like 4 Gyms in minimum, so there's no excuse here.  Yes, it was like this in the Kanto games, but that isn't an excuse.)  Then again, there's a few ludicrous duds, like a guy in Viridian Forest with 3 level 50+ Metapods.  I'm not even sure what the point of him is; he's not a challenge, doesn't provide a lot of EXP, it's like a sick joke (yes, I know, the 6 Magikarp trainer is a tradition, but that's more being silly, and NOT an aftergame thing!)

They did mostly alleviate the Cut bullshit I whined about in the original games.  I say "mostly" because it's still there a bit, mostly in side pathes, but the most egregious is Diglett Cave.  You get through Diglett Cave and ready to go to Pewter...but the only way to get out of that walled off area is Cut...and there's no PC in the area, so you need to backtrack, grab a Cut user, and get past the tree, OR use Cut on your current team, sacrificing a move slot in the process.  This is really a bad design decision because yo go through all this effort to finally get through Diglett Cave, between finishing the entire Power Plant arc and beating the Snorlax, only to be told "Turn around and come back with Cut!"  Seriously, it's shit like this which makes me glad Gen 7 just ditched HMs entirely, going more the route of "Reward people for using the right Ride Pokemon and backtracking."

One thing it also didn't fix was Wild Pokemon; it still has the same availability issue, and then when you get to Kanto, you're still running into routes with single digit level Pokemon.  "Oh, but that's what you fought in Kanto games here, we're being consistent!" but then you go "So why are their off-region Pokemon running around?" or more importantly "Gameplay =/= Plot and Lore.  You separate these two for a reason!  Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's fun!"  Too many developers forget that "Fun > Realism" in Video Games.  Just because it's cool and realistic doesn't mean people will enjoy it; above all else "Is this fun?" should be your top priority.  Everything else exists to service that, and too often devs go "nah, let's sacrifice that, who needs FUN when you have IMMERSION!" Uh, Fun is probably the best path TOWARDS immersion, jack ass...

...tangent aside!  This leads to my next point, which is while they did make Kanto much better, Johto's issues are all still wide in the open.  It's filled with a bunch of worthless daily events that waste your time either making you play at specific times, or have to stop what you're doing, get everything, and then continue.  This was clearly some attempt made to get people playing the game as many days as possible, but this isn't an MMO, so why should it matter?  More to the point, though, Johto is still a region with a very questionable roster of Pokemon, that does a very poor job focusing on Gen 2 Pokemon, and the levels are still terrible.  I won't go into this again, but pretty much everything I didn't like about Johto still applies to HGSS, and this holds the game back significantly.

TO BE FAIR, being Gen 4 now, a lot of crappy things are less crappy.  Marril line is actually good, for example, nor is Sneasel an embarrassment (though Weavile is Kanto only from what I looked up).  Likewise, Donphan and Heracross were given real moves to work with in-game (Donphan gets Magnitude at level 19, Heracross gets Brick Break at the same level, both service-able enough for in-game purposes), Piloswine can become Mamoswine at any point, etc.  That's a major thing HGSS did in comparison to FRLG: It removed the National Dex restrictions, so now the National Dex is purely for collection purposes.  Want that Gen 4 Evolution of a shitty Gen 2 Pokemon that made him now suck? You can get it anytime now (if you meet the requirements)! It just won't appear in the Pokedex until the aftergame, but that's fine; if I want to use a Yanmega, now I can!

And while the Gyms are fundamentally unchanged, the better AI helps the challenge a bit, and some even have cool strategies.  YEs, Bugsy's is still stupid with Metapod/Kakuna, but OPENING with Scyther, his ace, who immediately fires off a STAB U-turn with evolved stats to beat the shit out of your starting Pokemon and retreat before you do anything (since it's highly unlikely you have anything that can outspeed him without Priority moves) is a cute trick.  Or how Morty can be a terror without the right team since OVERLEVELED GENGAR WITH STAB SHADOW BALL RUNNING OFF HIS SPECIAL ATTACK WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE FULLY EVOLVED POKEMON.  Oddly, this is like the one place where Noctowl of all things shines, since Normal type shuts down Shadow Ball, Insomnia stops Dream Eater strats, and he has worst case scenario Peck to at least do damage.  Noctowl is still a crappy Pokemon, but thanks to Gen 3/4 updates, it can be useful in quirky situations like this.

These are, however, band-aid fixes to Johto's major problems.  They alleviate the issue, but Johto as a region is fundamentally a problem.  It still baffles me that after Ecruteak, they didn't simply implement a random blockade trainer like "Oh no, weather caused a landslide here, and we can't get through, we're clearing up the path!"  and once you beat Jasmine, the game conveniently fixes it.  Cheap as this is, it serves the purpose of bringing back the linearity, and lets them scale all the levels east of Ecruteak to be closer to your own team, rather than giving you this illusion of non-linearity.  Again, I'd go further into rants, but I'd be just rehashing what I said in Crystal, this is a moment that stands out mostly because it's something you could easily fix in a remake with minimal effort, and they chose not to.

Which is ashame because the remake shows a lot of effort in most areas, and did a good job breathing life into the Johto games.  The problem is that Johto as a region, as I keep saying, is so fundamentally flawed that even upgraded in every sense, it still feels like a bit of a chore. 


Because it's a remake, I naturally have less to say about this than other games.  Though there are a few little details I want to point out.  First off, Raikou/Entei appearing immediately on the map really helps the catching of those two.  Runners are still a terrible thing and I'm so happy they were gutted entirely by ORAS (with XY handling them differently in a less annoying way), but at very least now Gen 4 has given us resources to chase them down without having to every actually see them.  Branching from that, Suicune plot from Crystal, modified a bit, was a nice touch, reminding us "Yep, he was special, there won't be a Crystal version, so we'll meet you half way!"  Making him level 40 in Kanto does cheapen the fight with him though, but whatever, less runners are a good thing.   Keeping Lugia and Ho-Oh available in both games, just changing the "when" factor is good, AND both now have their own battle themes, with the Gerbils maintaining theirs but a modified version for each one.  The Weather Trio's battle theme got a subtle but significant upgrade as well for that matter.  The music actually as a whole was pretty good renditions of all the pre-existing music; the Champion Battle theme is really well done in particular.

I think the best way to sum up HGSS is that they're Good Remakes of Mediocre Games.  How it compares to FRLG is a tough one.  On one hand, HGSS does a better job at remaking the game in question, but FRLG is based off a strong foundation (Kanto) so arguably needed less work (That and has to be reminded that Gen 3's engine is way better than Gen 4's.)  Well, there are a couple QoL things I didn't mention that I might as well toss at the end:

-Running Shoes can be turned on BY DEFAULT.  Don't have to hold a button down to dash now, yay!
-Dowsing Machine is probably the most user friendly in the series.  It's an upgrade from Sinnoh's since I don't have to keep tapping, just "Hold stylus down until color changes."

And one last thing to rant about for HGSS, this is more of a "Meaningless Gripe" than it is actually a bad thing, but I still gotta do:
WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH LYRA!?  She's randomly shoved into the game and does absolutely nothing the entire game, but show up, add more dialog, and make the male path like 5 seconds longer for Speed Runs.  I have nothing against having female trainers...heck, half the time I pick them because they have better designs than the males!  If Johto didn't have a female trainer, I'd be fine with this, as she'd be a similar situation to Leaf, namely adding a Female Trainer to a game that didn't have them.
The thing is Crystal already gave us Kris, who not only do I feel has a better design (doesn't look like a country girl trying to cosplay Mario, for starters), but also had a name that was so much better than Lyra.  I mean, the 3rd game in the series is "Crystal", and thus Kris fits that well.  What the fuck does Lyra have to do with any of this?  And they could have at least given us fights against her (and by contrast, Ethan if you're playing as her), where she uses the starter weak to yours (as they did with Lucas/Dawn in Sinnoh games), but no, she just shows up, being followed by her Marril to be all "HI ETHAN! I EXIST! GOOD BYE!"

It's almost like Gamefreak went:
"Ok, we're making the Gen 2 games, let's look at Gold and Silver"
"Oh, they only have a male protagonist.  People expect a female one at this point"
"Cool, make a female protagonist for Johto on the double!"
"Sir, shouldn't we look at Crystal first? I mean, we need to do that for the Suicune storyline we intend."
"Pfft, ha! That's a good one, as if we'd add a female protagonist between versions of the game!"

...at least Pokemon Masters remembers Kris exists, so there is that.
...if it's not obvious, I picked Ethan as my trainer.  Not only did I pick Kris in Crystal, but well, see the above rant!  Also, because I didn't mention it, I used Dawn in my Platinum playthrough because Lucas looks dumb and you aren't convincing me otherwise.

...oh and Pokemon following you I didn't mention and that's honestly because it's such a "kind of there" feature I don't care about.  Seriously, I don't get why people make such a big deal about this feature.  It's kind of neat, but it never played any impact on my game.  I really am not surprised it hasn't returned.  It doesn't really hurt the game (outside of when trying to get a specific spot for the dowsing machine and your Pokemon is standing right on it), but people make a big stint about it...I'm going to come out and say it:
No one actually cared about it.  What they needed was an excuse to hate on Gen 5 games that didn't come down to "GEN 5 POKEMON SUCK!" since they'd be labeled as Genwunners, so they pick a random "cute" feature and obsess over that instead, convincing themselves that made or broke the game.  The sad part is some people act like Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee are GENIUS for introducing this feature that...does nothing and was not the first time they've done (not even the second if we count Pokemon Yellow Pikachu.)

So now onto the part everyone cares about and by everyone I mean maybe like 2 people: WHAT POKEMON DID I USE!?

I held to strictly Gen 2 Pokemon, but not quite as super strict as before.  I allowed Gen 2 evolutions of Gen 1 Pokemon, and used some Gen 1 Pokemon early game before getting a full team.   Also, because this is a Gen 4 game, I was able to get Trade evos using Pokemon Diamond to trade between.  Yes, it's cheap, but Trade Evos are stupid and you should all feel bad for hyping them (even though none of you are.)  Let's get to it then!

Typhlosion: Well, I used Meganium in Crystal, and plan on using Feraligatr in my All Starter Playthrough of Gen 7, so this wins by default.  Typhlosion is about as stock a fire type as you can get.  He still evolves a bit too late for Johto (Johto being the ONLY REGION where "Level 36" is "Too late"), but in Gen 4 they gave him Lava Plume at a reasonable level as Quilava, which is good until Flamethrower.

Steelix: I feel like I did use him once but can't remember when.  IN any event, he was a reliable "I need something to survive this" Pokemon.  Even weakness hitting wasn't that bad because a lot of it was physical and his raw defense goes a long way in compensating.  He was instrumental to beating Lance, what with Curse and being able to not get overwhelmed by Outrage.

Crobat: I've used this before, using it again here because Flying types are limitd.  Unfortunately I got a -Atk Crobat, so he underperformed, but still, a Crobat is a Crobat.  He's fast, he's got modest offense, he has Bite to scare off those frail Psychic types, and he can use Fly.

Kingdra: I never used one of these and finally got around to it.  The good part is how it's got good offense and only one weakness.  Bad part is how lots of what you'd use it on late game (Blue's Arcanine and Red's Charizard) have Dragon Pulse, and it's not as fast as you'd like.  Still, worked for a token Water type.

Ampharos: It's an electric type, bulkier but slower than most.  You basically know what you're getting.  Bonus points for having Signal Beam.

Heracross: ...it's a Heracross.  He's basically a Fighting type with Bug resists tacted on because lord he isn't getting Megahorn in game.  Thankfully, his Brick Break (and later Close Combat) hit really damn hard, Aerial Ace actually works for a coverage move as well.

Ho-Oh: For Red himself, I dropped Crobat and used him because fuck it, I want to use a legendary for once!  It's only one fight specifically for Red anyway, so whatever. Sacred Fire hits really hard, magic tank, Pressure + Fly = low PP Moves hate you. 


And that is my Soul Silver Rant!

Next up, Pokemon Black!  I seem to recall many things about that game, I hope they're accurate.  Also, for my next starter, I will use...

[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2022, 04:16:04 PM »
GENERATION 5


The Initial Games!

On, Generation 5, probably the most divisive Generation…at least when it first came out, I think Generation 8 may have it beat for completely different reasons but shut up, this is Pokemon Black and White time!


Let’s get this out of the way, because I kind of covered in Generation 3: Using ONLY Gen 5 Pokemon for the base game was a bad idea.  People try to sing the praises of this as a great idea, going “I loved being forced to try out new Pokemon, not having to rely on the same Pidgey and crap every game!” to which I say “Hoenn was only 2 Generations ago, and chances are your team was almost entirely Hoenn since the first Kanto/Johtno Pokemon doesn’t actually appear until the second Gym.”  Hoenn struck a great balance of throwing primarily new stuff at you, but tossed in a few classic faces adding some familiarity, as well as many served to fill in gaps without having to create things that felt like clones of older Pokemon.  Case in point? They need an annoying cave dweller, just toss Zubat in there again!  Need a good early game rock? Geodude!  Old Pokemon existed, but the new Pokemon took front and center stage.

Unova went completely in that extreme and it hurts in a number of ways.  First off the most notable thing is how limited you are on Water types and Flying types…you know, those things you want a fair number of for purpose of Surf and Fly?  Normally, these’s a lot of those because they can draw from other generations (Hoenn single handedly would solve the Water problem <_< ), but Gen 5 you’re very limited.  To its credit, Tympole is early, and the fossils are a Water and flying type, both actually good, but overall, you feel like they could have easily fixed this.  The early game instead has a lot of what feels like Bugs and Grass, and just about everything has a Dark move (or at least that’s how it feels)...not what the game needs at all.  More to the point, Gen 5 is the largest Generation to date, because they had to do a lot of stand-ins for things that would have worked.  The number of Pokemon that come off as “This is just a rehash of *insert older Gen Pokemon here*” is staggering.


By the way, Garbodor is a terrible Pokemon on that not because it’s literal trash, but because it’s very poorly made; they took a pile of trash and drew a face on it.  I totally get why a Trash pokemon exists in the New York-inspired region, but they could have been creative about it.  For example, instead of just “Trash with Face” why not make the face out of things you’d find in trash, like the mouth could be a banana peel, the eyes could be bottle caps, what have you.  THAT would have been neat and creative, but instead they pretty made a trash pile and haphazardly tossed a face on it.  Contrast this to Chandeleure who is a chandelier, but they didn’t just draw a face on it, but rather designed it’s elements on things that look like what would be a chandelier, with the face being made out of what looks like an ornate design, the fire on the top looks almost like hair, what have you.  They took “natural” elements of a chandelier and adjusted them to make it look like a creature.  They could have done that with Garbodor, but clearly just didn’t care.

That leads to another problem: Because Unova Dex is so big, it has way more duds than other generations.  There’s far more forgettable Pokemon in this generation as a result.  There’s a lot of good ones too but then you have things that feel either too generic, or the aforementioned Garbodor problem (..and yes, I’m aware Electrode is the single laziest Pokemon design ever; I am not going to defend it and aware Pokemon has always done this, it’s more about the quantity of it feels higher in Gen 5 due to the raw size.)  It’s ashame because there are some real gems in there.  Darmanitan line is really cool for a “I hit you really damn hard” physical fire type, Chandeleure is a fun Fire/Ghost type with a good design as I noted above, the elemental monkeys are a neat way to help teach you the type chart early giving you a pseudo-starter to help deal with the first gym (which was creative in it’s “Gym type changes based on your starter” so well done there), as well as a way to teach you about elemental stones (Though the Monkeys themselves suck), among others.  I feel like Gen 5 would have benefitted more if they cut the Pokedex down to more like 100~ and then supplemented with older Gen Pokemon like Hoenn did instead of going hard on the “NEW POKEMON ONLY!!!!” thing.

Also, the starters are ass this time around. 2 Monotypes and ANOTHER Fire/Fighting.  It gives Gen 2 a run for it’s money for boring starters.  Let’s go over the problems with each shall we? First off, picking Snivy makes you have a rough early game as everything feels like it exists to counter Grass.  But that’s ok, that Monkey you get can help too, right?  No, because a lot of those grass counters are also water counters, so oops.  Tepig can hold it’s own and Oshawott gets Pansear to help cover the rough early game, but you get the worst of both worlds with Snivy.  It also is awkward to use, as it really needs that Coil + Leaf Blade strat (...and NO AWFUL TIMED CRITS SERIOUSLY!!!) to really do well, and Coil is quite late.  It’s fast and durable, but that’s not a great combo beyond “well, throw Leech Seed out” considering it’s damage sucks until the aforementioned Coil strats.  Then we have Emboar who is a slow fire fighting type that isn’t particularly durable.  He hits very hard, but he’s usually taking damage first.  TO BE FAIR: Gen 5 created Flame Charge which helps cover his flaws somewhat with that +1 Speed off a 50 Power STAB, and he can get Scald for an interesting off type move (though it runs off his worse attack stat, but 100 SpA is still pretty good at least.)  He’s actually not terrible, just kind of got that stigma of “3 Fire/Fightings in a row!?” and the other two just felt that much better.  Then we have Samurott, who has something of an identity crisis.  Ok, so he’s packed with a lot of physical moves and his trademark, Razor Shell, is Water physical, clearly a physical sweeper right?   Nope, best stat is SpA, slightly than his attack.  On top of that, he’s SLOW.  Not Empoleon or Swampert slow, but slower than Blastoise, and Blastoise is meant to be a tank!   And unlike, say, Feraligatr, he doesn’t get anything like Dragon Dance to compensate for crappy speed.  Seriously what were they thinking with this Pokemon?  He should have had taken 15 of his SpA and plug that into Speed so he was at 85, which while not great, would at least make him faster than the GIANT TURTLE WITH CANNONS ON IT’S BACK.  Samurott is about as generic as you can get for a Water type and when you’re a start, that’s bad.  Emboar, for all it’s hate, is a typing that isn’t super commonly used, just was #3 in a row for starters, and it’s stats are a unique build from the other 2, while Serperior comes off more like a failed experiment than just a paint by numbers Pokemon the way Samurott does.  I am so glad that Gen 6 and Gen 7 course corrected and made sure their starters were all unique…but more on that when I get to those Gens!  Again, I do wonder if the Generation wasn’t so bloated, they may have put more time and effort into making these starters more appealing.

Flipside, the Legendaries this time around are actually quite good.  I can’t say I’m fond of the Kami trio, they feel utterly peripheral (a bunch of Japanese inspired Pokemon in the region based off the USA what?), but they provided the first real pure Flying type at least.  The Muskedeers are all neat Fighting dual types, and then we get to the ubers: Finally giving us a Fire/Dragon type, a good Dragon/Electric type to match, and Kyurem is kind of a phoned in 3rd type but they clearly were planning for the sequel there, and Ice/Dragon is fine.  Yeah, Reshiram’s stats are literally DIalga’s with swapped defenses, and Zekrom is the same with swapped Attack stats, but Gen 4’s Dragons had good distribution so “Not broke don’t fix it”, they were acceptable follow ups.  Just kind of wish “Turboblaze” and “Teravolt” did way more interesting effects than just being Mold Breaker renamed.

Now it may sound like I’ve been mostly negative towards this game, but truth be told, it’s actually a good entry overall, just had some things to get off my chest.  Unova is a good region, and Castelia City really does feel like Pokemon’s interpretation of Manhattan.  The big thing the game does is a bunch of little and subtle quality of life improvements.  As a generation, Gen 5 feels lackluster in the sense of doing something big to establish itself, but as an “upgrade from Gen 4” it’s service-able, so it feels more like “Gen 4.5” than actually a whole new update.  No real major shake up, just minor tweaks that make the game easier.  For example, being able to register more items is nice, the engine is way faster than Gen 4, so fights don’t feel like they take forever, the visuals are a notable improvement from Gen 4, trying to make the most of the DS Hardware, and little side perks here and there.  It really is hard to get into what it is, but playing Gen 5 feels notable smoother than Gen 4 because of all the little subtle things it did.  Also, implementing reusable TMs allows for far more flexibility with moveset.  Yeah, it removes the strategic component, but it’s just a lot more fun when I don’t have to worry about “Will I need this later?!” and in the end, fun is the ultimate winner.   Strategy from scarcity of resources is often artificial, where as “Ok, I have all these options, what can I put together to beat this fight?” Also just makes so many more pokemon a lot more viable should their level up set be garbage.  Then there’s the fact that someone went “Wait, why do we always separate the Pokemart and Pokemon Center?  Wouldn’t it just make sense to shove them both in the same place?” and there you go, a quality of life change you didn’t know you wanted but is nice they thought of it!

For new actual stuff?  Really just Rotation Battles and Triple Battles and to be perfectly honest? Both suck.  Triple Battles is just Double Battles but too much going on at once and with restrictions on who can target what, it really isn’t a surprise they didn’t follow through with this, and stick to Doubles as the standard for VGC.  Rotation Battles is a cluster fuck, where in there’s little in the way of strategy, it’s just second guessing everything and we already have swapping, now there’s that added “Wine In Front of Me” component which ultimately removes all strategy.  Yes, there is no strategy in Rotation Battles; you can say “Ha! I baited you!” but how did you know he was going to stick with that, and how do you know he knew you were going to do that?  It was this idea that was creative but they didn’t put much thought into if it’s fun.  Luckily, neither Triple Battles nor Rotation Battles are used very frequently, so it doesn’t really hold the game back, it’s just two gimmicks that show up and are kind of meh.  It’s not a shocker that they almost entirely gutted them in Gen 6 (it exists for like one area where the gimmick is that), and they’re practically non-existent in Gen 7 and Gen 8.

There really isn’t a whole lot to talk about in Gen 5, since it really is just “Gen 4 but smoothed out.”  That’s not necessarily a bad thing, it just makes for not a very exciting conversation.  Again, compare the improvements of Gen 2 which basically added half of the systems we treat as standard, Gen 3 adding passive abilities and creating Double Battles (and combat style that DOES show up with relative frequency), and Gen 4’s Physical/Special split, and Gen 5 feels more like Gen 4.5 than it does Gen 5.  That said, Gen 4 was a good foundation and improving upon it works fine, so there’s little to complain about (including a much faster engine.)

And of course, gotta address that part of Gen 5: The plot.  If nothing else, Black and White illustrate that Pokemon CAN do ok plot when they actually try.  The game has an actual theme, an antagonist whose motive isn’t just something nonsensical or generic “Take over the world” and the conclusion actually works.  The Gym Leaders play more of a presence, coming off as somewhat the vanguard of each city, not just some person who sits waiting for trainers to show up.  The big thing is of course N, the aforementioned antagonist.  Here we have a character whose motives actually make sense: He connects with Pokemon and feels the Trainer/Pokemon relationship is a very Master/Slave thing and Pokemon are not being treated properly.  His goal is to free all Pokemon because they deserve to be.  Then he runs into you, and finds with his ability to read Pokemon hearts that your Pokemon actually follow you WILLINGLY and enjoy it, and is baffled by this, meaning he starts to second guess himself.  He still holds true to his convictions, but the fact that you are an antithesis to his beliefs makes him intrigued with you, and actually wants you to succeed.  The fact that both sides have merit makes the argument interesting.  N’s obviously a big proponent of freedom, but in your case, it shows that a positive Trainer/Pokemon relationship brings out the best in them, evidenced by how a trained Pokemon is way stronger than a wild one, and many Pokemon are happy with their trainers.  It finally makes that thing Gen 1 brought up a while back work, the whole “Blue, you’re an asshole, that’s why you lost to Red” but that doesn’t make sense when Blue literally became the league champion so he must be doing SOMETHING right.  In this case, there’s a moral dilemna, and it’s very easy to see how someone could side with N on this.  Of course there is the Ghestis problem who is your typical “TIME TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!” antagonist, but his strategy does make sense at least: Force everyone to release their Pokemon, using the pretense of “It’s for the good of the Pokemon!” to gain a following, then being the only person in the region with Pokemon left, he basically becomes unstoppable (and they even take over the PC System so people simply can’t just catch new Pokemon easily.)   Oh he’s a boring and crappy villain, but at least his plan makes a crap ton more sense than whatever the fuck Gen 2 Team Rocket was trying to do.  And the fact that he had an ace up his sleeve in N using a legendary Pokemon who could beat the champion even addresses the whole “Wait, what if the Elite 4 and the Champion decided to take action? Wouldn’t they just completely destroy us?” which, again, Team Rocket’s strategy makes no sense.  At least Magma/Aqua was about some misguided environmentalism message, and Cyrus was trying to unleash pokemon that are practically gods to do his bidding…so yeah, this is another “removed from nostalgia, Team Rocket is really kind of terrible.”

As far as the protagonist designs go this time around? Honestly both Hilbert and Hilda look good.  I appreciate actually how they look a bit older than your usual Pokemon Protagonist, as it’s a bit more believable that a teenager would be tasked with an adventure than 10 year olds, and the parents would be more willing to let them go off on their own as well (granted, you could argue simply “Pokemon Culture is not real life culture” so yeah).  Also highlights that maybe at one point Gamefreak realized the demographic was getting older and the protagonist should be a more middle ground approach between the younger audience and the college kids who are playing the game, making teenagers a good middle ground.  It’s ashame that they basically ditched this idea and go back to pre-teens by Gen 7, if not earlier.  I went with Hilbert this time around, mostly because I knew I was going to pick Rosa in the next game anyway.

Music was also pretty good.  A few town themes are incredibly memorable, Route 10 is a good route theme, and it introduced the idea of Dynamic Battle music.  Ok, that one is both a blessing and a curse.  Cool in Gym Battles when they bring out their last Pokemon and the music ramps up in a way that makes it feel like “Yes, you can do this!” but also the Gym Leader is also at their peak, but bad when you get low health and the intense “Oh god you’re dying” music plays.  Gen 8 would revisit it but I don’t think it worked nearly as well because of the huge emphasis on “OMG THE CROWD!” rather than just focusing on the 1v1 aspect, which is what Gen 5’s really hones in on (also, one of the few GOOD uses of the Pokemon Main Theme, instead of just “Generic Title screen theme” or “That boring song that plays in Smash Bros. games.)

Lastly, I’ll give props to the end game for shaking things up a bit.  Yeah, you do the usual E4, which I must admit is disappointing from a challenge standpoint since they have only 4 Pokemon each, but rather than face the Champion, you finish the game’s plot there.  This is a key thing BW does that the rest of the series doesn’t: Plot is forefront, and it doesn’t end until the game does.  You don’t even fight the champion, Alder, until the aftergame and the Super E4, thus won’t get your Hall of Fame shot until then.  You get your legendary right before the final two bosses which both feel like toned down champion level fights (they have diverse teams, but they aren’t as dramatically overleveled as a champion is.)  Also, as an added feature, while I don’t like the toning down of the E4 to 4 Pokemon, I do like the Mega Man style approach of “Choose your order.”  It does mean the E4 Pokemon don’t improve as you go on, but then I feel their strength should come from movesets and options, not from “Rar we have so many more levels than you, suck it!”  Gym Leaders were kind of average as a whole, nothing special.  A few good ones (Elesa gave me a lot of trouble this time around), a few scrubs (Brycen got steam rolled) but nothing too notable.  The Gyms themselves on the other-hand deserve props for being quite creative.  They’re just creative enough to give them each their own identity, but not so creative that they feel intrusive.  Even something like Drayden’s Gym which could have been so much more annoying given it’s switch puzzles turns out to be fine.

One last complaint I have, and this ties into something I complained about Gen 2: The Seasonal aspect.  Look, I get what they were going for: Make a world that feels more alive by adding seasons to it for unique looks, changing the landscape, what have you but this just serves to time gate crap because the seasons change monthly, meaning if you aren’t playing during a specific month (or alternatively, don’t mind abusing your DS Clock), then there’s certain things literally unavailable to you.  Like some area may be inaccessible UNLESS it’s during winter where there’s a huge snow pile up letting you cross.  It sounds cool in theory, but Pokemon’s insistence on using Real Time and your inability to manipulate these things like most games would have just makes it more annoying.  This ties back to “Real Time Day Night Cycles” and how they’re more than just a fun cosmetic thing (if it was purely cosmetic, my thought would be “Oh, that’s neat” but the fact that gameplay elements actually hinge upon this is problematic.)  It does seem like Gamefreak caught on that this was more of a nuisance than actually fun, hence why I believe it got completely dropped by Kalos.

Not going to deal with the aftergame because, honestly? The game already took me more than 35 hours, and I kind of want to move on.  The after game I do recall being decent, having a few new areas to explore, adding in older Generation Pokemon, and even lets you have a hellish fight with Cynthia.  It’s not as extensive as the Johto games, but then Unova is so much more fleshed out than Johto that it doesn’t need a half-assed rendition of a whole other region to complement it; just a few unexplored areas, and minor things to do; again, notice how my Black playthrough had a way longer playtime than Pokemon Crystal’s entirely (HGSS took notably longer but Gen 4’s engine in play there.) 

Overall, I think the best way to describe BW is “Good if unexciting.”  THe new Pokemon is really the only new thing the game has to offer, and despite the raw number (or perhaps because of it), they aren’t the greatest selection, but the core game is probably the best it’s been, the plot is actually kind of enjoyable (by Pokemon standards) and it really doesn’t do anything wrong.  It’s very much a game to play if you wanted “Gen 4 but better” in areas not related to the Pokemon selection themselves.  Now if only they could have Unova but with a far stronger roster, with a few new areas, maybe set 3 years later with even more Quality of Life improvements…

Oh yeah, gotta talk to my team!

Serperior: Kind of problematic for reasons I cited above.  The early game is not nice to grass types, and the monkey you get doesn't help beyond the boss Gym Leader.  It gets good in the very endgame, when it becomes Serperior and gets Coil, allowing for some stalling and buffing (...though the game loved to let me build up and then crit me just to troll!), but it's not worth the time to that point.

Archeops: So it's special ability sucks, but you don't care because 140 Atk, and 110 Speed, with enough physical moves to compliment, the thing kills stuff dead.  Did not disappoint!

Darmanitan:  Darumaka is a pain in the ass because Hustle...then it evolves and like Archeops, things just kind of explode when hits things.  This is one of those Pokemon I always wanted to use but never got around to using (blame Chanedeleure on last run!), and it was great.

Jellicent: Always expected this thing to be worse than it is, but as it stands, it's an adequate Water type for Surf that can be used for Ghost type purposes like swapping into Normal/Fighting types, throwing Shadow Ball, or using Will-o-wisp. Pleasant surprise really.

Conkeldurr: Is basically Machamp mk2, and thankfully this isn't Gen 1, so that's not necessarily a bad thing either!

Gothorita: It takes forever to evolve and when it does...honestly, it was kind of disappointing?  I think the most notable thing about it is how it's more physically durable than you'd expected, which came in handy when I needed it to survive ONE HIT, and it would do so often with like 10 HP, which was actually enough. 

No, I don't remember what I used along the way; boring stuff probably.

-----


For those wondering, my next Pokemon game will have the gimmick of "Starter + One of each generation."  No, I don't know what I'm using yet, but that should make my options more interesting.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 11:42:17 AM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2022, 10:48:20 PM »
GENERATION 5

THE SEQUELS!!

Ok, so before I get started, I need to acknowledge that I missed some notable QoL things in the first games; as a result, I will be covering them here instead.  These points should go to BW1, but I really need to learn to take notes!

ANYWAY!!!

Black/White 2 is the first attempt at a real sequel since Johto, and the first attempt within the same generation, and came out in place of a typical 3rd version, which was a neat change of pace.  BW2, unlike most "3rd versions" are legit new games with a new story, etc., it's just centered in Unova, so it shares a lot of the same areas, characters, etc., situated 2 years later.  It draws parallels to the Johto games, unsurprisingly, but it frankly works way better as a sequel for a few reasons, just referring to that aspect (I'll get to non-sequel stuff later.)

First off, BW1 has a significantly better story than RBY, and by extension, more memorable characters (detached from nostalgia) that when you see them again in the sequel, it's more of a "Oh hey, so that's what you're up to!"  rather than "OMG! IT'S *insert character here*!"  Bianca now being a Professor assistant, Cheren being a Gym Leader (Who just started at that, so he's new to the idea), N having gone missing on his adventures with his legendary, etc.  Heck, even does some creative things like saying one of the Sages of Team Plasma actually genuinely believed in their stated goal, and thus when Plasma disbanded, he dedicated his life to making amends, gathering other former Team Plasma members and started just helping the people in Driftveil, to the point where the Gym Leader (Clay) acknowledges him as a friendly contact and reliable partner (and remember, in Unova, Gym Leaders ACTUALLY DO STUFF besides just sitting around waiting for challengers, being functionally the guardians of the town.)
Heck, there's a neat scene of writing where they illustrate Drayden's plan of hiding an important object in the Gym, stating "If he's not there, no one can get in since the Gym needs Drayden to function, and if he is there, the macguffin is protected behind the town's strongest trainer", illustrating that the bad guys are massively inconvienced either way.

Speaking of which, another advantage?  The villain team's return makes sense here.  Again, Team Rocket felt so forced in Johto games, and so not threatening.  Here, Team Plasma's return as now basically just "we're evil Pokemon Terrorists" makes sense; they tried the more subtle methods of a stated benevolent goal, but without N that won't work, so Ghestis goes with the "**** it, let's take the direct approach" and only acts NOW because he got his hands on Kyurem, which actually shows how well thought out his plan is for "TAKE OVER THE WORLD!"  Not only is Kyurem incredibly powerful, it also stands as a counter balance to N, who could single-handedly ruin everything thanks to Zekrom/Reshiram (aka the Pokemon that allowed him to trounce Alder, the champion 2 years ago.)  The fact that it's still Ghestis means it feels like we have a real antagonist, as opposed to "Generic Rocket Admins who are trying to find Giovanni." 

Next, it takes place entirely in Unova again; some new areas in Unova, but largely the same region, so it feels like a sequel.  Johto games were a new region that was somehow connected to Kanto stuff but it isn't Kanto so doesn't really feel like a sequel?  Also had new lore and such.  Also, the fact that you can transfer data from BW1 to BW2 allows the game to reference your adventures in the previous game, the trainer you played in that game, and even opens up some extra flashback cutscenes to for extra lore-building and character work.  This is Pokemon so it's only so effective, but at least there was some level of effort to add connective tissue.


That said, BW2's story is a step down from BW1.  This is probably the one thing the sequels did worse than the originals in this respect.  BW1 had an actual theme and N as a character was well written and developed.  I can't say the same for anyone in BW2; Hugh, your rival, is probably the closest, being a character who actually has personal reasons to hate Team Plasma (they stole his sister's Purloin 5 years ago, and he vowed to get it back, or at very least get revenge on whoever took it), but I don't feel they developed him enough.  He never really gets too irrational or learns anything, and they wanted to keep him a friendly rival as to make him NOT an antagonist beyond the usual "Let's see how good you've become!"

Other than that, I would argue BW2 improved upon everything else in BW1.  Has all the QoL of Gen 5 and adds a few new features.  Here's a list of things this game adds...and some stuff from the previous games as well that I forgot to mention.  I'll asterisk those!

-Free Space for Inventory.  As in, I can make an item pouch full of Moo Moo Milk, Revive, Full Heals and Super Repels, let's say, and not worry about finding the exact box needed.  Helps organize things with your own customizable spot.
*-Critical Captures.  Nice little perk!
*-The ability to use multiple of a given item on a single item screen.  IOWs, rather than using your Hyper Potion to heal a Mamoswine, then going back to the item menu, selecting Hyper Potion and doing that again on your Crobat, you can select Mamoswine, heal him wtih a Hyper Potion and then without leaving your Pokemon list, click on Crobat.  One of those subtle but nice changes.
-Game is even faster than the previous Gen 5 games, and those weren't slow, especially compared to Gen 4!
*-Registering multiple items and/or menus.  Cuts down on fiddling with menus.
-"Would you like to use another Repel y/n?"  A QoL I never asked for but am so glad it exists!
*-Xtransiver.  One of those options in games where-in if you missed where to go in plot or turned the game off a while ago and can't remember, it allows you to ask NPCs as a "Oh right, that's what I'm suppose to do!"  Given there is some backtracking involved at times, this helps.
*-Putting the Pokemart and Pokemon Center in the same building; cuts down on needless travel time when I know everything I need is right in the Pokemon center.
*-Exp Scaling, so if a lower level Pokemon beats a higher level one, they get an EXP Bonus.  Makes catching lower level Pokemon up much easier as it does apply even if they only participated (so a level 50 Starmie would get less EXP than a level 45 Emboar if they both participated in beating a level 50 Pokemon)

Still not a fan of the Deep Grass mechanic as running through there and being forced into Wild Double Battles are annoying.  Mixed feelings on shaky grass since yeah, nice you can get into fights with things you weren't see often (hi Audino and your EXP!), othertimes you get hit unexpected with your repels up...

Speaking of which, something I noticed is levels are inflated in this game.  No, not the raw numbers, rather enemy Pokemon, even wilds, seem higher than you basically always.  This is fine for trainers as it gets you use to having to actually use more strategy since they'll on average outstat you marginally, but wilds it's annoying due to getting around your Repels.  Interestingly, the E4 is reasonably leveled, and thus doesn't rely on stupid overleveling nonsense.  They weren't particularly hard granted, and Iris only screwed me over due to some really bad RNG on her first Pokemon twice in a row that would lead to "Spam items or die" and I wanted to NOT do that.

A big thing this game also did was enhance the Pokemon selection compared to BW1.  They keep the Gen 5s around, but then toss in a bunch of Gen 1-4 Pokemon, making the region feel a lot more balanced.  As I said, Unova had an issue with flying types and water types, which the older Gens being incorporated helps alleviate a lot, as well as makes the enemy trainers more varied when they have that many more things they can use.

A neat feature this game has is every single Gym has it's own take on the Gym theme, adding that much more character to it, be it Roxie's "P-O-K-E-M-O-N POKEMON!" vocals in the background or Elesa having 3 versions of the Gym theme that get more energetic as the gym goes on (also her Gym having the jumbotron on the catwalk that shows her and your character REALLY makes me want to see a remake; imagine if they let you customize Rosa/Nate, and it'd show your actual custom character there?  ...then again, Gamefreak would probably take the lazy way out -_-), the Gyms really feel a lot more energetic and full of life.


I could go on but a lot of it really is summed up as "It's BW1 but better in everyway not related to plot."  So I'll just end talking about the 6 Pokemon I used.

My theme was "Starter + 1 from each generation" and yes, Generational Evos count as the Generation they first appeared, with that said...

Emboar: My starter.  You know I wanted to bitch about his fighting attack options but in the 11th hour I learned Hammer Arm was Move Relearnable option and being lazy with the Battle Subway is why I didn't have Brick Break, so that one is entirely on me.  He hits very hard, but has a crappy Fire physical moveset unless you use Red Shards for FIre Punch, relying on Flame Charge; thankfully his SpA isn't bad, and he can use Flamethrower, has access to stuff like Head Smash and BUlldoze, and just hits hard.  He's slow though and not as durable as you'd like.

Starmie: It's freaking STARMIE.  Do I even have to say anything about this thing?

Crobat: He's fast, his offense is just good enough, gets enough coverage to cover things, can hit things with confuse, more durable than you'd expect, we know the drill with Crobat, aka the apology for trying to pass off Golbat as a fully evolved Pokemon.

Aggron: Massive physical tank, now has Iron Head for a good Steel STAB, Rock Slide easy to get for a Rock STAB, can use a better DIg than what was in Gen 3.

Mamoswine: Really high attack makes Ice Fang hit harder than it has any right too...to say nothing of STAB EQ off that attack.  Not as durable as you'd think, but also faster than you'd think!

Lilligant: Probably my MVP overall?  Sleep Powder -> Quiver Dance -> Watch things die.  Once it gets Petal Dance that solves PP issues, and Giga Drain let's it restore health (one instance it was burned and losing health and I didn't want to lose my QUiver Dances or rely on an item...then remember how hard Giga Drain will hit will be more than enough to handle Burn damage!)   Oh, and it's reasonably fast out of the gate too.  Only flaw is very limited moveset to use non-Grass things, but honestly Quiver Dance is so damn good that combined with Petal Dance, it really only worries about double resistances.

And with that, Gen 5 is done, and so ends the 2D years of Pokemon, and frankly, they ended them well, as Gen 5 really did go all out.  Our next game we start is Pokemon X, the first 3D Mainline games.  Haven't fully decided on a gimmick yet (might repeat my BW2 Gimmick now having 6 Generations instead of 5), but I have decided that my starter will be...

« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 02:38:59 AM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2022, 01:24:28 AM »
GENERATION 6:

And thus we start the 3D Era of Pokemon!  Gen 6 had a lot riding on it, and for a lot of people, it’s the start of the decline of Pokemon because of “when they went 3D, things started being bad” or something.  If that sounds familiar, it’s basically the same damn thing hipsters said about Final Fantasy in regards to Final Fantasy 7, and why I don’t buy into that crap.  I don’t buy for a second that XY is the start of the decline, and truth be told, from everything I’ve seen, the comparisons made for XY are usually stacked against it, stuff like “it lacked this feature” or “it did this thing!” when the comparison made is against…well…stuff like Emerald and Platinum, or a game’s remake.  3rd versions of a game are not a fair comparison to an initial release.  Compared to BW? Ok, that’s a better argument, but I usually see people whine about “lack of aftergame!” or other nonsense that sometimes is trivial, sometimes embellished, and sometimes straight up false.  So let’s dig in!


First off, Gen 6 has a lot of QoL going for it, and that’s what I’ll focus on first!  It took mostly everything BW2 had (...save Search by Habitat, which was a disappointing loss, and the “Free space” inventory thing.  It does do a few things to compensate like a simple “Restore” option on the Pokemon menu to go right into your healing items), and added a few things on top of it.  For example, being a 3D game, it took advantage of that and had 8 way movement, so you’re no longer stuck to the grid.  The Roller Skates is a nice bonus as well, for a limited access speed between Running and Bicycle, one that doesn’t require constant activation, and uses the analog stick well.  Another big thing? Instant Save times!  I will never forget my first experience with that, saving the game right at the start and going “ok, how long is this going to-...wait it’s done?!”  Even my sister, who had far more limited experience, noticed how fast the game saved compared to Gen 4 and 5.  In fact, Gen 6 in general moves rather smoothly.  This is most obvious in combat that when you see someone get OHKO’d, the health gauge just kind of melts near instantly, nice when it’s not wasting your time.  So whatever they did, they got it right out of the gate.  The only problem the engine has is that it starts chugging a bit in horde battles (more on that later), but nothing too major; just some frame drops, and being a turn based game, that isn’t too terrible (though it does look a bit sloppy.)

Getting EXP when you catch a pokemon is a nice touch, though they removed EXP Scaling so no longer do you get an EXP Bonus for killing something higher than you.  I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, and they probably did it to account for the new EXP All, letting every Pokemon get EXP regardless if they participated or not.  This does break the game as you WILL end up overleveled; I played with it off and my levels were generally under all the notable trainers, but not by massive margins save the Champion, which is pretty much the norm (her best is level 68, my highest was level 58.)  I actually like the addition of the EXP All, even though I don’t use it, as it allows for smoother grinding and it a pseudo-difficulty toggle…and therein lies the key factor: it’s an option.  You’re never forced to use it (though it does default to being on when you get it), and thereby, it doesn’t have to impact your experience.  It really is no different than, say, FE Casual mode, which I fully endorse, but at the same time, choose to never use.  Options in a single player game are always a good thing, but keep it an option.  The issue is when it becomes forced, which thankfully doesn’t happen until Gen 8. 

They let you actually choose your boxes like folders in a computer, or you can scroll the usual way.  This is handy for people who organize boxes very specifically, and want to jump from one box to another.  Me, I just throw things wherever so the feature is useless, but hey, not going to complain about something that could help someone else!  There’s less inventory pockets in the game, which is both a good and bad thing.  Bad because it means some pockets are bloated, but good because it means you don’t have like 10 different slots to scroll through until you get to the pocket you want; Gen 5 mk2’s Free space alleviated that a lot, so I think them not bringing it back in Gen 6 may have been because “Eh, only 5 pockets, it’s not a big deal.”  Another feature I never asked for but glad it exists is the recoloring of TM Pokeballs to be yellow, so you know if that’s a big thing or not.  Then there’s the “You’re almost dead!” sound effect, which was in every Pokemon game, but Gen 6 had the novel idea of “What if it only lasted a few seconds as a warning, and didn’t be a perpetual earworm until you healed from red or swapped?!”  I think they realized Gen 5’s changing to “DANGER!!!” music combined with that made for actually quite an ANNOYING effect where you didn’t want to get into near dead not because “Oh god I’m dying!” to just “GET THAT RACKET OFF!”  This isn’t the NES era guys! 

Going 3D does have some downsides though, which I can say is probably a result of this being their first time and not considering the options.  Problem 1?  The camera is often too zoomed in.  Despite being 3D, XY usually has a perspective very similar to the older games, feeling like the 2D games, but everything is just bigger.  The character models, the environment, what have you, making the camera feel way too zoomed in, so your visuals are off.  There are some cases where the camera will zoom out and you can see more, but it’s so inconsistent.  The game could have used a zoom feature, letting the player choose.  Speaking of camera, Lumiose City.  I really like the look of Lumiose as it feels big and impressive, to represent Paris, but it was also definitely a moment of “Let’s flex the 3D graphics!” where they have this awkward camera angle in a circular corridor that makes it a pain in the ass to navigate, because of no minimap…which in turn leads to my next complaint: No Minimap.  XY more than any other Pokemon game felt like I really needed a minimap, which would have helped alleviate the aforementioned “zoomed in camera” issues.  I wonder if the never released Z-version would have added these elements in, but we really can’t say.

Then there’s a lot of little bells and whistles XY added in.  Pokemon Amie is a fun little diversion that can absolutely break the game if you spend time in it, giving Pokemon higher crit rates, ability to heal from status on their own because of LOVE!!!!, the refusal to JUST DIE, what have you.  I didn’t use this game, because I recall how broken it can be, and didn’t want to invest too much time, but I appreciate the existence.  Super Training is a neat alternative for controlled EV Training, though I don’t think it’s fun.  Given it’s entirely optional, I really can’t dock points off the game for it, and there’s probably people who do find it fun, so there you go. Wonder Trade is a fun idea, and there’s times I would randomly just throw whatever garbage I got into it to see what I get…and yes, Gen 6 Wonder Trade is still active!  O-Powers are a neat system that I didn’t exploit this much this time, but again, another way to break the game, and encourage social aspects that I barely used (though I have to emphasize that the game suggests yes, Gen 6 is still very active!) Then of course there’s the most important feature the game added in: THE ABILITY TO SIT ON BENCHES!  Ok, jokes aside, that does help with immersion, and it does serve a practical non-meme purpose, namely some benches you sit on will change the camera perspective so you can admire the scenery.  A little clumsy with concept, but points for trying, and hey, it beats SwSh’s idea where you don’t even get that much, and there’s way more interesting background scenery to see…or maybe there wasn’t and they wanted to hide that.  Now a less meme but major factor the game implemented that kind of became a standard? 

Character customization.  Letting you choose from the outset what your skin and hair color is, alongside gender, and later changing your outfit, and some (very limited) hairstyle options is really cool.  Yeah, it requires paying a lot of in-game currency, and you don’t really get a good look at your character’s clothes until after you confirm (though you don’t have to buy), but I can’t deny that I spent more of my in-game funds on fashion than I should have.  I didn’t do this a whole lot in my first two playthroughs…but then I hadn’t played FF14, Monster Hunter or PSO2, which are all cases of “Fashion is the TRUE endgame” so you know damn well I’m investing a lot in my character’s outfit!  Also you can dress Furfrou’s up, which is a neat touch because “it’s France and they are poodles!”  For a first attempt at character customization, I’ll say they did an ok job.  A lot of room for improvement, absolutely, but admiral first attempt, and I’d rather they started somewhere and didn’t completely botch it than go too far, screw it up, and never bring it back.  Speaking of characters, one last perk I want to bring up is the subtle features they do in battles, namely with trainers.  All trainers have some kind of still art which actually looks quite nice, the Gym Leaders/E4 members will have a cool splash page to make them all “LOOK HOW COOL THIS IS!” and then a few of your rivals (Shauna and Calem/Serena) will actually have fully animated models, and winning some fights even has our trainer giving a bit of a victory pose.  It’s subtle touches like this that I cannot in all honesty buy the fact that XY wasn’t made from a place of passion, as some would say “They were just chasing trends and going 3D to not be left behind!”  I disagree; I feel the 3D aspect was more them going “we have a console strong enough to finally realize this vision, let’s do it!”

Now onto gameplay!  It’s Pokemon, what do you want me to say?  Well, I guess some things they added.  For the first time since Gen 2, they’ve added a new typing in Fairy, which exists to rebalance the meta as Fighting, Dark and Dragons were all running rampant, so Fairy exists to “nope” them (also resists Bug I guess because “U-turn scary :( “), while also giving Steel and Poison a reason to exist offensively.  Likewise, the Fairy typing also makes some older Pokemon more interesting by giving them a new typing.  I really like this addition and adds a whole dynamic to the game.  Likewise, they also rebalanced some of the type chart, between types getting more perks (Electric is immune to paralysis, Grass immune to powder moves, and Ghosts can’t be trapped to name a few), as well as the nerf of Steel type defensively, letting Ghost/Dark hit neutral, something that was honestly a long time needed, especially with how Fairy exists to make Steel better.  They also adjusted a lot of Pokemon stats and some of their abilities, a first since the Special split of Gen 2, even if mild tweaks like “Say, this Pokemon could REALLY use +10 Speed” or something.  Small adjustments that actually help the Pokemon a lot.  Mega Evolutions are a neat addition to the game, giving life to older Pokemon, though some options are questionable (WHY DID TYRANITAR AND GARCHOMP GET A MEGA EVOLUTION!?) They are a bit broken, as “use this one held item, and cost-free, you can get a Legendary-level, possibly uber-level, Pokemon!”  I feel like more bosses should have used them; as it stands, really only Diantha and Lysandre used it after the introductory Lucario duel.  I get it; there’s lore reasons behind it, and you’re suppose to be special as a result (though you could argue this addresses the “how does a rookie adolescent become the strongest trainer so easily!?” issue every Pokemon games has, as “Ok, you can use Mega Evolution” which also explains how you stood a chance against Xerneas/Yveltal, and thus kind of writes itself in that respect, as you have Mega Evolution AND an Uber Legendary on your side.), but doesn’t change the fact that it can trivialize a large part of the game.  Speaking of…

There is a problem with the game and that’s it is a bit too easy.  I feel this probably would have been fixed in a 3rd version, much like how Emerald made its Gym leaders way better compared to Ruby/Sapphire, but I have to judge it based on what we have.  The only Gym Leader that gave me trouble is Corrina, because I didn’t have any real good way to handle Fighting types like the idiot I was, but otherwise, they just fight back hard.  Even the Champion wasn’t tough.  Certainly doesn’t help that you get Xerneas/Yveltal extremely early (right after the 7th Gym, so even earlier than Kyogre/Groudon in their Gen 3 games), which kind of trivializes the game there.    Another complaint about Gameplay I have?  Sky Battles.  I get they were trying a new gimmick, with fights that only specific Pokemon can go too, but honestly, it just kind of sucks and feels stupidly restrictive for the sake of it…and some of the Pokemon chosen are completely random too, based basically off what their animation in battle is.  That leads to another problem: Pokemon model stances.  Most look fine, but many Pokemon were ruined by Sky Battles being forced into a constant flight mode.  It works fine for many birds and stuff like Charizard, as well as floaters like Haunter feel natural in that state, but then you have “gliders” like Xatu who just look ****ing stupid.  I appreciate the attempt, and how all sky battles are optional, but they suck and I will not miss that.  Horde Battles are another thing that was added, but I have more mixed feelings than just “These add nothing.”  They do fun things in them like “4 zangoose and a Seviper and they fight each other”, and the image of a bunch of low level Pokemon showing up and trouncing them can be fine…but then you get into a moment where you’re hit with Smokescreen 5 TIMES IN ONE FIGHT against a bunch of Pokemon who can’t realistically kill you and…ok, I won’t go into details about that painful moment, just know it happened.

One last thing: For the last game to utilize HMs (and not be a remake), this game strikes an interesting balance.  They’re rarely NECESSARY (besides Surf which “Why aren’t you using this anyway?!”), but they do commonly have moments where they go “hey look, you need an HM here for a reward!”  A little too much I might argue, because they really want you to go back and investigate older routes with new HMs, or alternatively, go “hey look, a plant to cut, GO GET YOUR CUTTER YOU STOPPED USING FROM 3 GYMS AGO!”  I feel this was the actual intent behind HMs and a better usage of them than “lol can’t progress without the HM jackass” which feels limiting.  It is an incentive to go back and explore older areas with new tools. This is one of those cases where, again, I feel a minimap could have helped with simple exploration.

As far as area design goes?  Honestly, it’s typical Pokemon; if you’ve seen one route, you’ve seen most of them.  Nothing stand out for better or worse.  I’ve seen people claim this is the start of linear routes and such, but that is complete and total bollocks, and I think they’re incorrectly remembering this with something like SuMo maybe (and SwSh, which I KNOW was a big offender here.)  The routes have branching pathes with rewards behind them (as evident by how I talked about HMs), have plenty of trainers, and are not notably short.  I seriously think people make this unfair association with “3D Graphics, must be wear it started!” and it’s bullshit.  Even the towns seem like Pokemon designed towns.  I really have to emphasize this; if you take away the 3D Graphics and look at it as a Pokemon game, nothing has changed in the basic layout, structure and progression (...8 Way directional movement not-withstanding…)  It does have a rather lacking aftergame, essentially being find Zygarde, Mewtwo and a Kanto Bird, as well as Mega Stone hunting, but that’s realistically not enough.  Again, this is one of those “probably would have been addressed in the Z Version.”  Why wasn’t this an issue in BW1 then?  If I had to guess, they knew they were making a sequel to that from the outset, instead of a 3rd version, and thus planned BW1 around “we have only one shot at this.”  XY felt more like “We WILL make a Z Version” then someone said “On second thought, don’t do that; go make Pokehawaii instead!” “but sir, we have this whole idea pertaining to Zygarde, what should we do?” “Put it in Hawaii!” “But France isn’t anywhere-...” “DO WHAT I SAID OR YOU’RE FIRED!”  Yeah, I think XY coming out 2 years before the anniversary, and them prioritizing ORAS was not necessarily the right play, as Kalos feels like it never got the full attention it deserved and forever has unfair stigma being compared to other 3rd versions (or Unova as a whole which really had a completely different design philosophy for better or worse), when it never got it’s proper one.

As far as the Pokemon options go? There's a few of them, but they're pretty good as a whole, quality over quantity I say.  The starters were all great this Generation, having the RPG Trinity of Warrior-Mage-Rogue inspiration, and all were interesting dual-typings, including the long requested Fire/Psychic starter, not that Water/Dark or Grass/Fighting were bad compliments...quite the opposite, it made a double triangle(so Delphox REALLY kicks Chesnaught's ass, Greninja does the same to Delphox, etc.), and stats well distributed.  Nothing like, say, Samurott which was not only a mono-type but also had stats that made you go "Wait what why!?" relative to it's skillset.  Also the starters start with their STAB moves from the outset, helping emphasize their typings rather than the usual Normal Type Attack + Debuff combo for the first few levels.
 There's only 3 legendaries this time, and while Zygarde was disappointing (had to wait to Gen 7 to be interesting), Yveltal and Xerneas, despite identical stats, were both neat, Xerneas even being the first Fairy type legendary really emphasizing the new typing (and completely throwing a wrench into the Dragon-centric Metagame), and Yveltal is just kind of well designed Dark/Flying type.   Then the wilds are kept interesting as well, the REgion bird being Fire/Flying to shake things up, the rodent being part Ground, or how Vivillion is...ok, that's just Butterfree+, but hey the wing gimmick based on where you play the game is a neat gimmick.  There's others but you can tell they didn't run into creative bankrupcy with this Generation's pokemon, something that definitely happened in Gen 5 where while there were a bunch of good, there were a lot of "This is basically *insert older Gen Pokemon here* but *insert slight variation here*" like, say, Gothitelle being basically Gardevoir mk2. 

Also, I need to say this, but they really didn’t capitalize on the 3DS’ new features (neither did SuMo.)  No Z-version? Ok, why not add DLC to expand XY and add more features, and get extra money from people who already bought the game that way? Why not make an update patch to add in the new Megas and such from ORAS, so XY players can face against ORAS players?  No, we’re just going to pretend we’re limited and only fix the game breaking Lumiose City bug? Really?  The fact that it took them until the Switch to finally go “oh, right, we can do things with the internet besides trading, battling and mystery gifts!” highlights just how behind Gamefreak is…but that’s a different rant.

Going back to areas, none of the areas really stood out as particularly good or bad…except for one: The Desert.  This might be, and I am not exaggerating when I say this, one of the single worst areas in any Pokemon game ever made.  It’s outdoors, so hey, easy to avoid wilds right?  Nope, there’s a lot of interactable wild Pokemon, which can be hard to see due to a constant sand-storm, and if you aren’t using a Flying or a Levitator, you get stuck with an Arena Trap Pokemon.  Repels you say? Did you not see the word “interactable” which Repels do jack shit too?  And it’s a big area with lots to explore, and trainers about, so you really feel like you make no progress between each encounter, which also give absolute garbage for  EXP.  I’m not sure what they were thinking for this area, it’s terrible.  Oh, to make matters worse, I don’t think there’s a Doctor/Nurse trainer to heal you, and the dungeon mid-area is deep within, meaning even going back to the Pokemon Center and coming back requires using resources.  But that’s ok, the dungeon has a guy who sells…Fresh Waters…gee, thanks game.  Speaking of, I don’t think there’s a proper vending machine in Kalos? Some vendors who sell Fresh Water and Soda
Pop, but didn’t see any vending machines, maybe I’m blind.

Oh one last thing I gotta point out: Gen 6’s levels are inflated compared to all other games.  This isn’t a bad thing…in fact, I’d argue this is a good thing since it means some Pokemon that don’t get to see use otherwise due to stupid level reqs can see reaonsable usage in Kalos.  This goes for a fair number of the Unova Pokemon who, as I covered, have a recurring issue of really high levels.  Speaking of Pokemon, Gen 6 has a lack of new Pokemon which is disappointing, possibly because of Megas, but the Kalos Region is absolutely phenomenal on variety, putting the Unova Mk2 dex to shame.  In the first route and dungeon, which is a forest, you can get no less than the following:

Pidgey
Bunnelby
Pikachu
Caterpie
Weedle
Scatterbug
The 3 Elemental Monkeys

That’s crazy variety compared to what you normally have access too.  Oh yeah, and of course there’s the fact that when you get to Lumiose, after Gym 1, Sycamore gives you a Kanto starter, which goes into another point that needs to be addressed that XY often gets railed on.

Gen 1 Pandering…yeah, that’s crap.  Oh, there’s a lot of Gen 1 Nostalgic CALLBACKS, make no mistake.  First dungeon is a forest, first wild will be a Pidgey, the Gen 1 starters, a sleeping Snorlax blocking the road, a Lapras just handed to you for Surf, the Legendary Birds and Mewtwo being in the game…it’s impossible to ignore.  The thing is, the other generations were not ignored in favor of Gen 1.  Sinnoh gets mentioned by random NPCs a lot, Not!Versailles actually has more homages to Unova than anything else (with statues of Reshiram and Zekrom), the Megas are well split between Gen 1 through Gen 4 (...why Gen 5 was given the finger I don’t know), with Lucario being the face of them, the diversity of Pokemon is extremely well balanced, with all the regions well represented.  I think people saw a lot of nostalgic callbacks and called it “pandering.”  If you want a further comparison, compare what Gen 6 did with Megas to what Gen 8 did with Gigantimax, and you can see why I don’t believe Gen 6 is “pandering” to Gen 1 fans the way Gen 8 was.

So good as time as any to talk about THE PLOT!  Ok, so the core reason to go on the adventure is you’re the new kid, got into a group of 4 other kids and Sycamore wants you to study Mega Evolution, this cool new Phenomena.  Ok, that’s nice and all…then you the Mega Ring half-way into the game so the plot has to go somewhere…oh, right, EVIL TEAM FLARE whose all about BEAUTY and such, and there’s this guy Lysandre whose apparently a good guy and TOTALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TEAM FLARE IGNORE THE NEON SIGNS POINTING AT HIM…oh, he’s the leader, that was obvious.  His goals are…well, ok, to be honest, I think he could have worked as a villain.  Why?  He’s saying “beauty” but his real goal is deeper, namely “humanity has grown too much and hurting the planet and we must extinguish a majority of the population as a reset”, and his belief is beauty should be a gauge of who gets to live and die.  Why?  I dunno, something to do with Japan’s perception of France I guess.  Look, his plan makes a crap ton more sense than Chairman Rose’s, as at least here the guy is transparently batshit insane, and there’s no crater sized holes in his plan that the GAME ITSELF calls out, he’s just your typical loon.  Why do I say he could work?  Well, his plan isn’t too far off from MCU Thanos, who had a similar mindset, and absolutely pulled it off.  I think if we fleshed out Lysandre, and what his actual purpose was, he could have passed as a decidingly ok villain.  As it stands, he’s just kind of batshit crazy.  That’s actually the running issue with XY’s story as a whole (and again, Z version probably would have addressed): The plot feels so undercooked.  I can’t mention all the underdeveloped elements of Gen 6’s story, it’s basically “everything not related to the rivals.”  It’s like they put the plot as the very last thing to work on, with the engine, gameplay, etc. all coming first which is fine; this is Pokemon afterall, but bad, underdeveloped plot and characters still needs to be called out, especially after Gen 5 showed promise with moving forward.   I think that’s really what makes Gen 6’s story feel so much worse than it is to many fans who just throw shade at it.

It’s not that XY’s story is worse than non-Gen 5 stories, it’s that it came right after Gen 5 and gives a sense of “did you learn nothing from the previous games!?”  I can’t realistically call XY’s story worse than, say, the Johto Storyline.  See, at least Team Flare‘s goals are well defined and make sense for what they’re going to do and how they’re going to do it, and doesn’t seem to grind the game to a halt the way the entire Team Rocket arc of Johto did.  Again, I ranted about this before, but why is Team Rocket a threat?  They’re just a bunch of thugs with Pokemon, not even a high end trainer to lead them like in Gen 1 with Giovanni; realistically, Lance and the E4 could have wiped the floor with them, so there really is no looming threat.  Gen 6 at least has Lysandre employing stuff like a SUPER WEAPON TO KILL EVERYONE, utilizing a legendary Pokemon, on top of which, he also found a way to make his Pokemon Mega Evolve, so he actually feels like a potential threat, more so than “Generic Admins of Team Rocket.”  I know, overcoming Johto’s storyline is a low bar to clear, but I’m emphasizing that yes, it is better than games that old…probably not Gen 3 though.  I will give props for the game actually having a dark moment in X version where Lysandre, in his death-throes, attempts to punish you with immortality, noting “you will be forced to watch all your loved ones grow old and die before you and there’s nothing you can do about it!”  I’m assuming the Y version, since it’s Yveltal, destruction Pokemon, is just “I’ll destroy you all on the spot!” which is generic super-villain stuff, but props to X version for having that kind of punishment at least.

Music is standard Pokemon fair.  There’s a route theme that feels very energetic and heroic that gets me pumped, the Trainer Battle theme and Wild Theme are among some of my favorites, Diantha’s theme is pretty great, as is Xerneas/Yveltal’s battle theme.

Final Team used!
Chesnaught: Finally had a chance to use him and…he’s alright.  Takes time to get going, but once he gets a decent Grass and Fighting move, he can do real damage.  A strategy I used with a lot actually mid-game due to some awkward choices was Leech Seed + Spiky Shield combo.  Served a way to heal, get some free damage, and set up for someone else to come out.
Charizard: Yes, second time using Megazard X, but I don’t care, it’s Megazard X, he hits like a truck.  Also, Dragon Rage at super low levels makes the first half of the Charmeleon phase ludicrous.
Salamence: Bagon sucks, Shellgon was actually not so bad, and Salamence…well, a bit annoying at first until I found Dragon Claw TM really late and finally had a good STAB that wasn’t Fly.   Fast and Intimidate is always welcome of course.  He also wasn’t my last evolution, that goes to…
Bisharp: This is probably the only game where he’s usable due to that level 53 evolution which is still completely ridiculous on a non-pseudo legendary.  Honestly…he’s disappointing because just about everything you’d use him on tended to have Focus Blast, so the game just hates him.
Florges:  I didn’t want to use it, but then it filled a niche that I just stuck with.  Calm Mind + Moon Blast or Petal Dance won me many fights, in particular completely walling Diantha’s Goodra who has no real way to seriously hurt a special tank Fairy, so Calm Mind and oh look, even the Mega Gardevoir explodes!
Lapras:  You know, I don’t think I ever really used Lapras before in like…anything.  Well, I need a water type, so screw it, I’m using it!  Anyway, it’s a service-able bulky water type who has STAB Ice.  That Ice type did get annoying anytime a fighting type showed up, but ultimately it pulled it’s weight well enough.

That said, I had fun with this playthrough and was impressed how well held up given how many people love to throw shade at XY.  Could they have been better? Yes, and as I said, I think the Kalos region was done dirty not given that 3rd version "2nd chance" that every other region got (or in Unova's case, A WHOLE SEQUEL), but for what they were, they're much better introductions to the generation than some other games I in the series *eyes DP*

And with that, my XY rant is done! Going back to Hoenn next game, and this time, I have a gimmick.  What’s the gimmick?
POKEMON BANK IS ALLOWED.  I’ve played the Hoenn region so many times, screw it, I’m having fun doing something ludicrous this time!  So yeah, expect to see crazy stuff.

Also, I’m picking this guy as my starter:
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 08:09:18 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2022, 09:25:03 PM »
ALPHA SAPPHIRE:

So here we are to the Hoenn Remakes!  You’d think after FRLG and HGSS that this is just going to be “Gen 3 BUT BETTER because more up to date Generation!” And…unfortunately, you’d be wrong.  ORAS is where they started making some really weird design decisions that for what should have been the definitive way to play the Hoenn games instead ends up being more of a lateral shift compared to Emerald.  What do I mean?  Well, let’s get into this!


First off, the game opens in a nice cute way referencing original Ruby/Sapphire as a throwback for remakes.  That’s cool and all…but then the first subtle red flag shows up in the game’s intro, namely the Pokemon helping you move in are Machokes, not Vigoroths.  Why is this important?  Because in Ruby/Sapphire, they were Machokes, but Emerald, to embrace Hoenn better, made them Vigoroths.  You may think this is a joke, but it’s actually a microcosm of what will end up being ORAS’ biggest problem: It’s refusal to acknowledge Emerald’s improvements.  See, HGSS found a great middle ground of being faithful to the original Gold/Silver but incorporating Crystal’s improvements into the mix (See the Suicunde questline), but ORAS seems to have ONLY looked at Ruby/Sapphire, and ignore that Emerald did a lot of notable fixes, like more trainers, redone Gym Leaders, etc.  I’ll get more into that later but the Machokes to me are indicative that they didn’t even bother to look at Emerald, or rather, they were too focused on “FAITHFUL REMAKES!!!” that they didn’t even consider “wait, did Emerald fix this in a way that doesn’t deviate away from being Ruby/Sapphire?” 

And that’s really what the problem with this game: It’s tugging between being super faithful to the original Ruby/Sapphire, but also really wanting to update things to Gen 6’s higher standards.  For example of a good change? The 3 starters all start with a STAB, so out of the gate, so they’re not stuck with ye olde weak Normal move and a debuff.  For an example of a BAD change?  This is when the franchise starting showing the problems that Gen 7 and Gen 8 would have, namely the game’s insistence on stopping your progress for a random wordy scene that is half-tutorial that should have a yes/no prompt to skip, and half random NPC going on about stuff you don’t care about.  It’s not as bad here, but it’s starting to manifest in a notable way that would become a genuine problems in the subsequent games.  For an example of this?  The Secret Bases.  I recall them making a big deal about them because you can do your own kind of Player Housing which is neat and all, and hey, make your own Gyms! So what’s the issue?  THe tutorial for this is overdrawn, and goes on FOREVER for something that many players will not care about.  Again, all they had to do is say “Hey, do you want to learn about Secret Bases?” and those that don’t care can simply say “No” and move on.  Look, I get it, you’re REALLY proud of this feature Gamefreak, but not everyone is going to care.and you’re terrible at concise tutorials.

So let’s get into some of the QoL things unique to ORAS, shall we?  Well, the Area Nav lets you always have the Map open below you, meaning you can always not only see where you are, but also a relative sense of how far into the route you are, so better sense of “how close am I to the next landmark?”  DexNav is cool for bringing back BW2’ “Habitat Dex” to help keep track of “Have I found everything in this route/dungeon?”  and the perk of being able to sneak on Pokemon and get versions of Pokemon with stuff like Egg Moves or at higher levels is a nice feature, even though I found it more cumbersome, but hey, optional features that are completely ignorable are never bad.  There are points in the game also that prompt Fast Travel, so you don’t have to go half-way across the map to continue the story, the game will just take you there, handy for the pre-Fly/Soar part of the game. Speaking of Soar, that’s an awesome feature because it means come endgame, I can just drop Fly entirely and aren’t forced to bring a flying type for the last legs of the game if I don’t want.  What ISN’T good is having to sit through that 5 second Soar animation every time of Latios/as picking you up, Mega Evolving and then flying.  Again, this feels like a case of Gamefreak being REALLY proud of something and not considering “This might be annoying after the 10th time someone uses it.”  At least let us skip the animation!  Some cutscenes also drag on forever too, in particular the post Cave of Origins scene where the characters just won’t shut up about “OMG YOU STOPPED THE LEGENDARY POKEMON!”  Yeah, ok, I get it but then Brendan/May shows up out of nowhere to say…the exact same thing that Steven and others were saying what?  Why is s/he even here?  Only thing I can think of was some kind of way to inconvenience the player from reset scumming to get the perfect Kyogre/Groudon, but I feel that’s giving Gamefreak too much credit.  Again, I think this was them just being too proud of…something…and not thinking about if they SHOULD do it, and just did it anyway.

So where are the problems? Well, let’s go back to the whole “ignore Emerald” thing.  Ruby/Sapphire by nature are easier games, and Emerald beefed them up in a number of ways, in particular the Gyms all got reworked.  Nowhere is this more obvious than Tate/Liza.  In Ruby/Sapphire, that fight is “Bring Surf, lol you win because lolSolrock and Lunatone!”  What did Emerald did?  Toss in a Xatu and Claydol and suddenly this is a real fight with team mechanics that work well (Oh hi STAB EQ with partners that are immune!)  ORAS…ignores that improvement and Tate/Liza are, again, absolutely pathetic because Solrock/Lunatone just aren’t threatening, and when outnumbered, yeah.  Norman has his 2 Slakings + Vigoroth instead of an actual varied team, Roxanne pretty sure is missing a Geodude, what have you.  They REALLY wanted to be faithful to Ruby/Sapphire, and ignored that sometimes being faithful is a bad thing, and really needed to factor in these Emerald upgrades.  For that reason, it’s really hard to say “This is the definitive version of Hoenn” because there are things Emerald just does better.  Emerald even has features that ORAS didn’t have like Battle Frontier as an obvious one (kicker? They tease Battle Frontier in ORAS and never release it as DLC despite being an era where that was do-able so they KNEW it was there and actively chose to not do it, suggesting they did in fact look at Emerald, and just gave it the finger.)

And then there’s the fact the game has Mega evolutions which is cool!  But outside of the Team Aqua/Magma Admin, the Kyogre/Groudon fight, and Steven, no opponent uses Mega Evolutions against you until aftergame, nor are they scaled up in a way to be ready for them.  If this was an aftergame thing then fair enough…but they give you your starters Mega Evolution mid-game which is enough to crush things.  And yet, the REAL broken feature?  They give you a Mega Latios/as FOR FREE WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING.  RIGHT AFTER GYM 5!  I cannot tell you how much this trivializes the game, as it’s way stronger than anything you’ll get until Primal Kyogre/Groudon, and nothing in the game comes close to matching the level of power Mega Latis have.  Now, giving you a free Latios/as midgame I’m fine with, almost an apology for the bullshit you had to go through to get them in the original game, what with how Gen 3 Runners use to work, and it was terrible, but the Mega Stone should not have been available that early.  Oh, Latios/as would still be brutal that early, but at least it’d be a semblance of balance, where as the Mega versions walk over the game effortlessly.  And then that leads into an interesting thing that just kind of happens right after Gym 8 (probably Cave of Origin actually, but shh.)

See, as I said, Latis and Gen 6 QoL stuff aside, the games are being super faithful to Ruby/Sapphire…but after you fight the legendary, the game suddenly decided to STOP being faithful.  What do I mean?  Well suddenly on Victory Road, you’re running in Pokemon from later generations, the Elite 4 are altered to include more interesting stuff, like Phoebe has a Dusknoir now, and Glacia has 2 Froslass.  Wally has his Gardevoir swapped out for a Gallade which is a nice touch AND it can Mega Evolve which just feels right, making his story feel better.  These are the kinds of things that the remake should have been doing in the first place!  It would breathed life into the game rather than just being “Ruby/Sapphire with a Gen 6 Paint Job.”  Ok, there are some missed opportunities like Wally still have Magneton and Roselia instead of Magnezone and Roserade, but at least put some effort.  Then there’s even a nice touch of a bonus fight with your Rival at the end, finally giving them an endgame team and a fully evolved Starter (and bonus points? It can Mega evolve too); the fight seems to have no stakes (you get 0 EXP, so I suspect losing has no penalty, just slight change of dialog.) You can also somehow access other Game Legendaries BEFORE the Elite 4 after you get Soar (I casually ran into Mesprit myself), which is nice that you can do some aftergame things early.  The big aftergame of course is Delta Episode which I personally thought was a nice change of pace for plot.  No real antagonist (ok, Team Aqua shows up again and is STUPID, so I take that back.  I presume Omega Ruby has Magma doing the same dumb thing), just kind of ‘so there’s this Meteor coming, let’s stop it!”  I like the idea that you come up with an idea that’ll work, but then Zinnia’s like “So…where’s the Meteor going to go? To another Dimension?  You mean…another Hoenn region just like this one except one that ISN’T prepared for a Meteor impact?  You do realize how SELFISH that is right!?” and it actually ties in nicely with her goals.  The idea that she was healing Aqua/Magma to release Kyogre/Groudon for purposes of baiting out Rayquaza because, from her (accurate?) perspective, that’s the only way to stop this dangerous meteor, kind of harkens back to how the situation was resolved in Emerald, without taking away from what makes the 2 versions special (see, being faithful to Ruby/Sapphire here actually works!  They really needed to know WHEN to be faithful and when to go “hey, we can fix this!”...or in some cases “hey, we DID fix this in Emerald, let’s use that fix!” rather than pretend Emerald didn’t happen) and Delta Episode is basically her going “Ok, time for Plan B: SUMMON HIM MYSELF!”  Of course all music related to Zinnia is awesome and that single-handedly justifies the character.  Gamefreak, BRING HER BACK!  In fact, why wasn’t she in the Galar games?  She’s exactly the kind of person who WOULD know of the Darkest Day and how to stop it…oh right, because we needed to pretend Sonia is useful…that only emphasizes my point further doesn’t it?

I digress, this is a short review because it really comes down to the basic problem is they were trying too hard to be faithful to the wrong games.  Rather than meeting halfway, updating Ruby/Sapphire both to Gen 6 AND incorporating the Emerald Improvements, they only did one of the two things and otherwise ignored it for 90% of the game.  This really should have been the definitive experience for Hoenn, but instead you can make a serious case for Emerald being better because of the corner cutting for lack of a better word.  It’s not a downgrade compared to Ruby/Sapphire, make no mistake, but the fact that there’s an argument for Emerald vs. ORAS means the game didn’t completely succeed in bringing Hoenn to modern era.

As far as my team?  Well, this playthrough I went more fun and said “Pokebank allowed!” and was letting myself use stuff I always wanted to use but never had the chance too.  This did make me a bit overleveled due to Traded Pokemon levels, so the game was especially easy, but whatever, it was a fun little romp.  Here’s my team!

Sceptile: My starter and my Mega Evolution.  Honestly, he wasn’t as good as I was hoping, mostly because he’s a special attacker but his moves are largely physical, holding him back some. 

Clawitzer: This guy became an absolute terror come endgame.  Having functionally STAB Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse AND Dark Pulse let him basically be good on damn near everything.  Slow as crap of course, but he hits like a truck.

Helioptile:  An Electric Type who can use Surf, neat!  Was a bit lack luster until endgame actually when he got Thunderbolt, which made him pretty good.  He worked for what I needed.

Tyrantrum:  Took a while to evolve, which held him back, but once he did, he was a bit of a bruiser, with a pseudo-STAB Crunch on top of his actual STABs (Dragon Claw and Stone Edge), he was good for most opponents.

Drapion: This guy kept missing the cut in my previous playthroughs and finally decided to use him here and he didn’t disappoint once he evolved.  Poison/Dark is a good typing, he gets Night Slash (and later Crunch) for a good Dark STAB for most of the game, Poison Fang worked for toxic and he can use Earthquake to help round things out. 

Talonflame: Was a questionable…then I gave it Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, and it became a fairly powerful and fast glass cannon…so yeah, there you go!



And with that, I reach Ultra Moon as my next game.  I’m not playing Moon because the games are too similar to be worth playing back to back.  This will be my All Starter Playthrough I’ve been planning for a while, with the 2 rules being “No generation used more than once” and “2 of each primary typing.”  As a result, my team will be:

Venusaur (Gen 1 Grass/Poison)
Swampert (Gen 3 Water/Ground)
Infernape (Gen 4 Fire/Fighting)
Delphox (Gen 6 Fire/Psychic)
Decidueye (Gen 7 Grass/Ghost)

…can’t remember if I decided on Feraligatr or Samurott…no, seriously, I’m legit not sure WHICH I picked, stupid mono-water types.  Ah hell, I guess I could have you guys vote couldn’t I? Let’s do that then!
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Meeple Pokemon Reflection/Rant Topic!
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2022, 06:46:43 PM »
(ULTRA) SUN/(ULTRA) MOON

And so we have finally reached Gen 7, and my all Starter Playthrough!  Generation 7 is what I feel the REAL start of the 3D era.  Yes, Gen 6 was 3D, but they honestly played and felt more like the 2D games than people want to admit.  Movement was largely still grid based (only now you have diagonal movement, but you still went based off squares), a lot of series conventions were still in-tact, the perspective was essentially the 2D games but now with 3D graphics.  In a sense, Gen 6 was more “Pokemon 2.5D”, while Gen 7 is the true first 3D Generation.  Gen 7 does a lot of things with 3D games like free range movement, camera angles all over the place, large character models to pop out, and the concept of draw distance…

Which is the first thing I want to touch upon: Gen 7 honestly doesn’t feel that far behind Gen 8 in terms of it’s performance and power, while being a notable step up compared to Gen 6.  See, a lot of those mockable things in Gen 8?  I think they existed in Gen 7, but there’s a huge difference in that Gen 7 being made for 3DS hardware gave them an excuse as they were trying to downsize it to work on a worse console, accommodate for many things.  The Draw Distance is a great example of that.  I assume that if Gen 7 was on the Switch, it’d have the exact same draw distance problems Gen 8 had, with things popping in and out randomly, but the key difference is that it’s not the Switch, but the 3DS, which has a smaller screen.  As a result, the low Draw distance wasn’t laziness so much as “What’s the point of a draw distance that far if the 3DS screen literally cannot see it?” and they just kind of copy and pasted that into Gen 8, which has a much larger screen.    Now Gen 7 is known for having performance issues on a NORMAL 3DS, most notably there’s a brief pause at the start of trainer fights, and it drops frames massively in doubles.  New 3DS largely removes this, but there were brief stints of that “pause” in doubles, and if weather in doubles was in effect, the game would slow down just a tad; not enough to ruin the experience, but just enough to be notice-able.  I feel like if the 3DS was the only option, Gamefreak may have went “Maybe we should work on a better engine, or improving the engine’s performance” as they’d have noticed these problems, but they probably tested the game on a n3DS, and went “Yeah, that’s good, and the Switch is stronger, so no problems there!” leading to…well…the Gen 9 performance issues are well documented.  I dunno, theorizing that stuff is pointless, probably the real answer is “Gamefreak understaffed and lacks time to playtest, and doesn’t care THAT much because they KNOW the games will sell regardless.”  Cynical, but likely true.

…but enough of that, I should note I played on Ultra Moon, which I’ll get to why that’s meaningful a little later.  The issues with Gen 7 start almost immediately in that the game takes forever to get started.  There’s dialog everywhere, you walk into a new town, Kukui greets you and tells you about it, then you take 2 steps and Hau is right behind you and talks to you about it.  Kukui and Hau are fun characters, make no mistake, but good lord is this barrage dialog driven cutscenes split up only by a few meaningless steps painful.  The game does warn you, to some degree, a cutscene is coming by having a “Plot Destination Here!” thing, but the game is not brief and you have no idea how long it’ll be.  We started seeing shades of this in Gen 5 and Gen 6, but they were never so long that it hurt the game.  And to be fair, on your INITIAL playthrough, you probably are reading the dialog and paying attention because Alola’s plot is actually kind of worth caring about, similar to Unova’s, and gets pretty engaging right from the outset.  The issue?  Replayability is nightmarish.  Pokemon games have always had a special quirk for replayability in the form “Ok, but how is the game using THIS team?” as I illustrated in all my previous playthroughs in the series, trying fun things and restrictions.  Gen 7 is no exception in that respect, HOWEVER, the dialog heavy cutscene barrage of the early game on Melemele and Akala are a huge case of “GET ON WITH IT!” I remember this in my first playthrough of Ultra Moon, in fact; when I played Moon, I didn’t mind it precisely because “hey, what are they saying?” but in Ultra Moon, which felt like an enhanced replay, it took me far longer to get into it because of the “Ok I know how to catch a pokemon, SHUT UP!”  Pokemon really needs to add a “y/n” option before every tutorial. 
SIDE RANT TIME!
The aspect of Gamefreaks’ “This is made for kids!” is really starting to creep here, as you get the sense “But what if the kid presses yes by accident!?”  It’s kind of disrespectful to children, since a little kid who can read is going to read VERY meticulously and if they don’t know, they WILL select the option that lets them no, while a more experienced player just wants to get through stuff as quickly as possible…and heck, even little kids know “Gotta weaken it first before you throw a Pokeball!”  My 5 year old Nephew, watching me play Black 2 knew exactly what was going on when I was playing, saying “Try it now!” and when it didn’t work “Maybe weaken it more.”    The nuance may not be known to them (best balls to use, status effects working, etc.), but you can leave that to random NPCs in town that Pokemon has always done where talking to them…you know, something the series has done since THE FIRST GAMES!?  Case in point, random kids trading with one another in Celadon Department Store, and he goes “Hey, my Pokemon evolved!” was a clever way to point out that some Pokemon are Trade-evos.  Really, Pokemon in general is insulting in the modern era, not because of easiness or the “kids” mentality, but because it DISRESPECTS little kids intelligence, and willingness to persevere.  That’s the issue with a lot “For kids” mentality; many people do that thinking they’re doing kids a favor but really they’re casually disrespecting them.  No, “for kids” should be a mindset about style, themes, etc.  Pretending dumbing things down is “for kids” is stupid and needs to go away, and Pokemon unfortunately keeps digging itself deeper with that nonsense, doing no one a favor, actively hurting the experience for adults.  This has been known for years not just in gaming, but in media…and older Pokemon games were great at that. Accessible and “family friendly” enough for kids, but enough gameplay depth that adults have something to latch onto, that the “fun” value offsets the whole “But isn’t this a kids series!?” entirely outside of that specific adolescent age range where “anything that isn’t ‘adult’ is for babies!” mindset (...so basically 10 year olds who old who think GUNS AND VIOLENCE = INSTANT COOL AND MATURE! <_< >_>)

SIDE RANT OVER!

This inability to get things going quickly also is notable because your first Pokemon Center takes forever to get to.  Yeah, you have full healing spots, but if you want to swap out Pokemon, you need to go over an hour into the game.  My starter was level 10 or so when I got to my first Pokemon center where I could finally swap in my other 5 starters from Pokemon Bank.  That’s kind of inexcusable, unless of course you had a makeshift one at Kukui’s Lab where you could use his PC to swap Pokemon…why they didn’t do that I have no idea.  Also, WHY DOES THE GAME FORCE ME TO DO MANTINE SURFING, WHICH HAS MORE TUTORIALS THAN ANY OTHER FEATURE IN THE GAME?!  Yes, a random minigame you’re likely going to play once just to progress the game, has a whole in-depth, long tutorial, that is unskippable, and good lord I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME STAHP!!!

To be fair, as I mentioned earlier, the plot and dialog IS better than what Pokemon usually provides.  It has the “You’re new to the region” thing that Gen 3 had, but Hau is way more expressive than Brendan/May, Kukui is Professor that actually plays a consistent role throughout the game, which is great!  He doesn’t just give you a Pokemon, but he battles you a few times early on, has a lot of personality (obsession with Pokemon move puns, like when he’s leaving he might say “I guess it’s time I U-turn out of here!”), the masked Royal thing is funny because your character figures out IMMEDIATELY who it is but apparently his own wife can’t?  The game does still have that “hey new kid, GO ON A BIG TRIAL ADVENTURE!” but the “You were chosen by Tapu Koko” thing does at least give some excuse to the silly premise.  Lillie is actually one of the best written characters in the series, being the ACTUAL protagonist of the game, and showing genuine growth from “scaled little girl” to “actually standing on her own two feet”; she still can’t do a whole lot , but she at least stands up for herself verbally.  She just needs you as kind of a body-guard since she isn’t a trainer kind of like Alphinaud in Heavensward for FF14, though that comes with the flaw that is highlighted a lot between the two games.  FF14, this “you’re not the protagonist, you’re just a body to talk to and the sword arm” works because the Warrior of Light in that game is incredibly expressive and has a lot of fun dialog options; Pokemon, your character has ONE expression which is that blank, soulless smile, so Lillie will be pouring her thoughts and emotions out to you, and the camera goes to your character being “:)”; I’m not asking for a lot, but would a few extra facial expressions to show your character having SOME kind of reaction be too much?  Like even just give us “Sad” “Concerned” and “Angry” would be enough!  But back to real characters, Gladion is also surprisingly in-depth, NOT being the full on emo-douche you expect, but he’s actually a decent guy underneath who basically had to become a “tough guy” to survive, seeing as his mother is a complete psycho who tried to control every element of his life (as demonstrated in Lillie), and in order to overcome that, he had to push back and become the rebel punk.  I think one of the coolest touches to prove that he is actually a compassionate and nice guy?  All his Pokemon save for Zoroark are Happiness Evolutions AND by the end of the game, they are all fully evolved, showing he does raise his pokemon with kindness despite seeming like he has a mindset similar to Silver’s “STRENGTH ONLY MATTERS!” 

Team Skull is also a treat, being just kind of nuisances instead of the primary antagonists for one.  They show up, they’re annoying, and they’re basically a parody of every evil team, with their names being “Grunt A” and “Grunt B’ and that apparently…is their real names, as they’ll say “Look, my name is Grunt B, what’s that tell you about me?!” They have a song that perfectly encapsulates their hoodlum look, and they’re really not taken seriously at all.  More to the point, they actually do have kind of endearing lore, in that they’re not just a team of “bad guys” with some kind of grand EVIL!!! Motive, they’re just society outcasts that have all been adopted into one organization that they come together like family, albeit completely misguided sense of morality, much like real gangs.  They even took over an entire city which looks like a city if it were run by a street gang that didn’t care, and why are they allowed to stay that way?  Because Nanu basically said that if they have their own area they can call their own, most of their antics are isolated to that, and pretty much ONLY Team Skull lives there, so it surprisingly keeps them out of large scale trouble.   Plumeria and Guzma are both different takes on leaders as well, Plumeria being more that “Big sis team Skull looks up” and Guzma motivations are driven more by his own failure as a Trial Captain and insistence that he proves himself to all of Alola by any means necessary.  Guzma actually loses development in USUM because in the original games, he follows Lusamine without question until she reaches a point where she’s completely lost and he’s like “Yeah, I’m done, please knock sense into her, even I’m not that crazy!” showing even he has standards.  USUM, meanwhile, it’s basically “Oh, me and Lusamine fought Necrozma and lost lol, sorry for being failed heroes!” 

…speaking of, let’s talk Lusamine.  Lusamine is a character that I think is refreshing in SuMo but utterly ruined in USUM.  Why?  Well, the plot changes.  SuMo’s plot is basically about the Ultra Beasts, and stopping them, and Lusamine being the “loving, caring motherly figure of the Aether Foundation!”...yeah, ok, she’s got “REAL VILLAIN” written all over her, and her goal is to “USE THEM BECAUSE I AM OBSESSED WITH NIHILEGO AHAHAHAHAH!” which also explains Lillie’s outfit (and Gladion even states that he was subjected to something similar.)  It makes you feel bad for Lillie more, and them just doubling down on “Lusamine is an obsessed psychopath, and a full on jRPG Antagonist” was kind of refreshing.  It’s not deep, but it compliments Pokemon, and her final battle being “Hey look at all these cute Pokemon…BUT THEY’RE EVIL AURAS!!!” was a nice touch, and them all getting stat boosts made it FEEL like a genuine final boss fight for the Non-Trial part of the story.  It was a great, stylistic touch and made her feel like getting a full on jRPG Final Boss form, something hard to do in Pokemon.  So what’s USUM’s problem?  The plot changing entirely to “NECROZMA IS COMING!” completely undermines any purpose the Ultra Beasts have; Nilhego showing up at the Aether Foundation feels completely peripheral, the scene with all the Ultra Beasts attacking Alola comes out of nowhere now since “Wait, isn’t Necrozma the issue!?” instead of being something that ties in with what the game was building up to, AND it turns Lusamine from “obsessed crazed woman” to “benevolent extremist!” and Guzma never gets that “yeah, she’s too crazy for me!”  Necrozma’s story just feels so much less impactful too.  When you get Nebby to evolve into Solgaleo/Lunala near the end, and you get your big awesome Legendary, it feels earned and something the game was building up to.  Lillie was defending Nebby by all costs from her mother, and you helped her, and as a reward, you get to use this complete and total bad ass (or you could be fair and not <_<.)  Here?  Hey, Nebby evolved…oh, Necrozma kicked it’s ass despite how both stat wise, level wise AND type wise, NEBBY HAS EVERY ADVANTAGE (seriously, go compare base Necrozma to Solgaleo and Lunala; it’s such one sided match up.)  It really compromises the story as well; this is Nebby’s crowning moment and NOPE! IT’S GONE LOL!  So here’s a BETTER idea, because the game actually had it:

Why not have Nebby get to its form, and keep it the way it was.  Then Necrozma shows up, you fight it, Nebby wins, but then the kicker?  It transforms into the OTHER form, and beats you.  Why?  Because the Ultra Recon Squad apparently has their own “Other Box Art Legendary” they can use at will..which comes out of nowhere…why not just say Necrozma stole that?  Or heck, if you want it to be that Box Art legendary, do what BW2 did: Give you the legendary of the OTHER version.  See, Black 1 for example, you got Reshiram, so Black 2 gave you Zekrom.  As a result, why not Moon giving you Lunala, then Ultra Moon gives you Solgaleo to combat the Dawn Wings Necrozma (and Vice Versa in Ultra Sun).  This keeps Dawn Wings Necrozma as a logical face for Ultra Moon (and Dusk Mane for Ultra Sun), AND rewards people who bought both the originals and Ultra Versions.  It really highlights the laziness Ultra games were as “3rd” versions.  Ultra Necrozma is a neat fight I guess, but a little overtuned being so ridiculously overpowered that you might just get one shot left and right, and he’s hard to outspeed.  There’s a reason the most reliable strat is “Toxic him” because you just need Quick Claw and one toxic, then lots of healing.   Oh, speaking of Ultra, FUCK. THE. ULTRA. RECON. SQUAD.  They’re the biggest microcosm of everything wrong with USUM’s plot compared to SuMo.  In a game that already is wordy as hell to the point of hurting replays, they add in these two “quirky” characters that show up out of nowhere, talk about cryptic garbage relating to “NECROZMA IS COMING!” or something, have this vague sense of “ARE WE GOOD OR BAD!? WAIT TIL THE END TO FIND OUT!” even though the answer is “You guys are obviously good guys, but you’re so mysterious and cryptic that you sound EVIL!!  This is not creative, it’s just obnoxious”, adding that many more scenes, and then they always have some of the most boring fights because “hey, we created this is new Ultra Beast that evolves for the new Gen 7 games that can’t be used in SuMo, when we COULD have just put an update patch for compatibility!”  and the you crush it.  I know “3rd versions” have added new characters in the past, like I believe Looker was Platinum only, and we had that Talent scout in Emerald, but they were largely harmless additions that had little impact on the main plot.  The Ultra Recon Squad actively deviates the game from the original more interesting plot about Ultra Beasts to “NECROZMA IS COMING! NECROZMA IS COMING!”  Many changes can be argued lateral and taste like, but I feel fully confident in stating that the Ultra Recon Squad actively makes the game that much worse, because it already had pacing issues, and now we’re adding more pacing issues in the form of cryptic, quirky, unentertaining characters.

The last notable plot change in USUM?  Related to the Trial storyline stuff.  Mina now has a real trial which is a lot of “backtracking” but at least they gave her a trial and a fight, and it gives you a chance to fight some of the Trial Captains that you didn’t in the original.  This is neat but also clear padding and would be fine if it wasn’t there; thankfully they don’t make you fight all 7 Captanis, just a handful so it’s not as long as it could be. They replaced Hala with Molayne, which I’m totally fine with.  I don’t have a strong attachment to either, and Molayne felt undercooked for Sophocles brother, so while he’s not a Kahuna like Hala to be appropriate, it’s the kind of change that mixes things up in a good way, while not strictly being worse or better.  Also changes to the Totem Pokemon which is…a thing that exists.  Ok, yeah, Totem Wishiwashi feels more interesting as a totem than Arquanid, but whatever, I didn’t care that much, Totem Mimikyu is in both and that’s the only thing that matters!  There is one change, however, that I actively despise and have no idea why they thought it was a good idea:

The Champion.

So remember how I hated that they randomly changed Steven with Wallace?  USUM is way worse in that respect, since SuMo had the absolutely perfect final boss in the form of Kukui.  People have been asking for a Champion to be a Pokemon Professor for a while, and Kukui finally delivered and made sense!  He’s actually a recurring character, like many Champions (and again, doesn’t just stop existing after the opening parts), he battles you a few times, showing he’s capable as a trainer, has a trademark in his Rockruff/Lycanroc, and is a fun guy.  On top of that, his Ace is absolutely perfect; The Starter that DIDN’T get chosen by you or Hau, fully evolved, AND it’s also the one that is strong against your starter (eg pick Rowlett, he’ll have Incinceroar.)  Fighting the guy who basically made you the trainer you are as your final test for “Become the first Champion of Alola!” feels so appropriate, and the music being the Pokemon Theme into the Alolan theme really highlights “Yes, YOU’RE the champion, Kukui is just your first title defense!” feel.  With such a perfect Final Boss, what did USUM do? “I’m your opponent…lol jk, it’s Hau!”  Yes, Hau, the guy who you’ve kicked and is clearly way below you the entire game, who is just a fun adorkable character…is your ultimate challenge?  The guy who has a starter weak to yours, and…wait, the Rival as the final boss again? That’s just Gen 1 all over again, and unlike Gen 1 there was none of this “You two were rivals for your entire life!” so it felt appropriate there (one of the few thematic things Gen 1 actually made sense about.)  Also the music is changed from “Your Final Boss Music!” to “This is a Final Boss Theme version of Hau!”  It feels underwhelming when the final boss is just “It’s Hau…again…”  Yes, technically ORAS added an extra fight with Brendan/May, but the difference is that was a post-credits bonus fight because Hoenn rival was pushed back prematurely, so tossing in one more no-stakes fight (eg you can lose it with no penalty beyond maybe some dialog change) is cute.  Not sure why they thought that changing “Pokemon Professor Final Boss!” would be better if it was the Rival…and Hau, gotta remind you, is a FRIENDLY RIVAL, not a DICK rival, so you don’t really get a sense of fulfillment beating him again.

One last change I want to cover, before I get back into Gen 7 as a whole?  Zygarde cells being replaced with stickers is again a step down IMO.  Ok, getting the Totem Pokemon as rewards is a nice novelty, but I honestly prefer that Zygarde got a chance to shine in the form of his own game-length sidequest, where you can get a lesser version of him that’s on par with a mid-stage evolution Pokemon early, so you can raise your own legendary such that you can get a nice powerful (but not OP) 600 BST Legendary come endgame, with some unique moves and such, and if you get them all, he can improve further.  It feels more rewarding if you plan on using Zygarde, where as the totems are, to my knowledge, not actually different than the base Pokemon, just bigger and apparently 3 Perfect IVs (hence “novelty,”)  There are QoL changes, most notably SoS Battles only allowing one new partner, so you can’t get locked into a permanent “WHY WON’T YOU DIE?!” moment like in the original games…no doesn’t really fit in with this paragraph, but dunno where else to put it.

Back to general stuff in the Generation!  One thing Gen 7 has going for it is excellent options in game, as per Gen 6.  It has a wide range of new Pokemon, but also plenty of older ones to supplement.  On top of that, Regional Variants are an incredible idea to breathe life into older Pokemon, making functionally new Pokemon off the template of an old one.  Alolan Grimer is a fantastic example, in that it fits great into the lore, visual design is “clearly a Grimer but looks very different”, and they added Dark typing turning it from “Generic Poison type” to “The rather powerful Dark/Poison typing”, and even took advantage of design elements like “Oh, Alolan Grimer has glass shards in it’s mouth that look like teeth, so having it learn Bite makes sense!”  Also making it so some of the older Pokemon evolve INTO Alolan forms while not being Alolan variants themselves (Pikachu and Cubone for example) helped mix things up.  It is only Gen 1 Pokemon that got it, but they did explain that was because they were testing the idea and wanted to use the most familiar of faces AND they needed the most shake up, so I get that (Gen 8 also had a lot of Gen 1 variants…too much, but it did branch out and create regional variants of things outside of Gen 1, so there’s that…even adding Regional Variant specific evolutions, like Obstagoon for Linoone, or Sir’fetched.  Then we have Pursurker which is a case of “Why isn’t Galarian Meowth just a whole new Pokemon?”)  The new Pokemon are also pretty neat though they are largely allergic to the Speed stat.  All 3 Starters, for example, have 70 speed or lower (insulting in Incinceroar’s case because Torracat is actually FAST!)...but I can forgive that, because Grass/Ghost, Fire/Dark and Water/Fairy, all with a unique attack (not sure what they were thinking with Sparkling Aria though…) and a unique Z-move to go with it, making for an interesting Starter trio.  Also props to Incineroar for being designed CLEARLY to troll the Fire/Fighting fears showing Gamefreak is aware and probably not going back to that anytime soon (which is why I wanted to shoot people every time they made jokes about Scorbunny being “Fire/Fighting” like it was a new joke, since Incineroar not only made 2 in a row, but ALSO showed “They’re self-aware, and making fun of it”, highlights “Yeah, we won’t be doing that again for a while!”)  More importantly, THIS GENERATION HAS MIMIKYU AND THEREBY IS THE BEST.  IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE YOU ARE WRONG AND PROBABLY HATE POKEMON!  …I mean…uhhh…yeah, Mimikyu’s pretty awesome and such <_< >_>

Game brings back Pokemonamie…well kind of.  Minigames are gone, which I think is a good thing because those sucked, but keeps the petting and feeding aspect around, and replaces Minigames with “Pokemon Care” where “Awww, you’re soaked? Let me dry that off!”  Much faster and keeps with the spirit.  My one “issue” is that it does trivialize permanent status effects as you can always fully heal them between battle now, without using an item, so if you aren’t using Full Heals and ilk mid-battle, they’re now kind of worthless.  Speaking of Full heals, shout out to later Boss Fights using Full Heals when you status them rather than relying on that “low HP Full Restore only.”  It’s a detail that makes strats like “Toxic lol” strats not as foolproof.  It also means since you can access it right after battle if conditions are met, raising Pokemon Affection is that much easier…which also tends to trivialize some aspects because you get RNG based bonuses that the enemy doesn’t (“Oh god, I got hit with a W4 at-...oh, my Pokemon is too happy to DIE and survived with 1 HP, lol!”)  This isn’t new compared to Gen 6, to be fair,  just the ease of raising it makes it stand out more, and since it’s entirely optional, it’s a fully good thing.

What it doesn’t bring back is the ability to SIT ON BENCHES.  Seriously, what the fuck?  That was like the whole reason to play Gen 6!  You can instead sleep in beds…which is just kind of weird.  “Hey, I’m visiting your house, mind if jump onto your bed and tests it’s quality?!” Instead of O-powers, you get Roto-Powers, which are randomized and I barely used them, so I honestly couldn’t care less about it, it’s a feature that just kind of exists and we move on!

Oh, speaking of Roto-powers, that leads to Rotem.  Yeah, having your Pokedex and Map being a character in itself is cute and all, and the kind of “made for kids” feature that I do approve of, since it’s not insulting their intelligence so much as adding a fun little thing for kids to enjoy.  What I don’t like is how his actual dialog CAN get in the way of gameplay, since when he’s saying something, it blocks your access to the map.  The game has a fairly effective minimap for once, that’s good!  But Rotom ALWAYS takes priority, so after a cutscene, if he has something to say, especially with a dialog option, it genuinely gets in the way.  It’s not a big deal but it’s obnoxious and they really should have added an option to either turn him off, or at least tapping him skips his dialog completely and brings back the menu.  I can believe this is more an oversight than a “WHAT IF THE KIDS MISS WHAT HE SAYS!?” aspect because it’s the first time they did this, but still is annoying.
Other good QoL features include how the game will tell you effectiveness of attacks…but only after you have some kind of confirmation.  If you see a Pokemon for the first time, it tells you jack ****, but hit them with an attack, the game will remember how effective it is.  Catch the Pokemon and get it in your Pokedex, now you have their typings confirmed AND the game tells you straight up their effectiveness.  While this in theory makes the game easier, it doesn’t do anything you couldn’t just look up on your own as is, so it cuts out a lot of raw memorization or “Guide Dang It!” moments, and again, it doesn’t tell you until you’ve actually experienced it once yourself, also incentivizing experimentation, catching other Pokemon, etc.  It also scans every Pokemon the first time you meet one; Pokemon has for a while told you if you caught one, but never if you saw one, so this feature while adding a few seconds of time I do approve of, as if you’re new to the series, and can’t remember everything, having a “Yes, this is a new enemy!” feature is good, and it’s not like other jRPGs haven’t done that before (see Breath of Fire games obscuring HP Bars the first time you fight them, for example.  Same basic idea really.)  The games engine is fairly fast in terms of text, health scrolling, move recognition, etc; if you get one shotted, for example, that health bar just kind of completely deletes itself instantly, a far cry from the Gen 4’s well known slowness (so…yeah, safe to say with 3 gens in a row of swift HUD, they’ve learned their lesson!)

Game starts you with a lot of cash, so you have wiggle room to buy what you want, especially notable given lots of Pokemon you may wants, Nest Balls to use them on, etc.  I had 35k by the first shop for example.  Vending Machines are teased early on…but busted or “sold out” so good troll there!  Speaking of items, they’ve rebalanced the items, so Vending Machines are no longer as broken, with Fresh Waters now being worse than Super Potions, Lemonades being only “marginally better” making Super Potions more convenient to get in bulk actually meaningful, Hyper Potions are still potent but not so overpowered for their price that Max Potions actually feel like they serve a purpose in the main-game (Blissey, Snorlax, Wailord, etc. HP Tier Pokemon not-withstanding.)  Then we have HMs…being completely gutted!  Ride Pokemon being used instead allows for flexibility in your party.  Actually, I’ve always felt HMs the way they were implemented to stop you from plot progression always came off as parasitic game design, Ride Pokemon largely doesn’t gate you, as when you get to impassible terrain, they pretty much give you the new Ride Pokemon the spot almost like a tutorial.  Instead, they’re mostly used for an incentive to backtrack, like “Wait, I remember these big blocks from before, Machamp can push those, let’s see what’s over there!”, rewarding exploration, backtracking, etc, with items like TMs and such.  Far better than “Gotta gimp your team to get through the game!” (or in Charizard’s case, “gotta gimp your team for Fast Travel!”)  The good HMs largely turned into TMs though Surf/Waterfall are aftergame only which is annoying (TO BE FAIR: Scald is main-game and that’s a decent replacement for Surf, but Physical Water types suffer if they don’t get a level up move like Aqua Tail), and Strength is now basically Machamp only (I guess this incentivizes using more physical attacks maybe.)  Tauros, on top of being Rock Smash’s replacement, doubles as the Bicycle due to being your fastest ride, Sharpedo in USUM is basically “Bicycle for Water!” which is a nice bonus, and you get Charizard, your fast travel, a lot earlier than you’d think (nice because the Island Gimmick would make backtracking a lot more painful.)  My one issue with Ride Pokemon though?  Stoutland.  He’s the replacement for the Dowsing Machine but good lord is he a pain in the ass to use.  Since Gen 4, the Dowsing Machine has been fairly good, for all that Gen 6’s takes some getting used to, it worked fine.  Stoutland not only slows you down, but it’s annoying to find anything with him.  If having Stoutland out at all would tell you where an item is, that’d be fine, but you have to actively “Sniff” while on him, slowing you down further, meaning you’re constantly holding it everywhere.  And of course, this leads me to one of the dumbest things Gen 7 has:

STOUTLAND MAN!

Look, I get it, you gotta plot gate some segments, but this is one of the dumbest excuses on Akala Island.  You randomly come to a spot that you can’t cross because…the guys Stoutland is too busy sniffing everything?  I…what?  There’s a reason I joke about “I am riding a Stoutland, you cannot pass!” because that really feels like what it is.  The guy is riding a stoutland, you can’t pass, because fuck you, he’s riding a Stoutland and wants items!  Gen 8 would try to one up this with “TEAM YELL IS BEING VERY ANNOYING AND YOU CAN’T PROGRESS!” but I can totally buy someone going “...nope, waiting for them to leave” because Team Yell is, in fact, that annoying.  There are other points where the game gates you in Pointless ways, because they want you to find a linear path, and often it’s “won’t let you pass, you don’t have the right Z-crystal” leading to the usual Pokemon Problem of “wait, you mean all these rando trainers have this too? Or are your rules just inconsistent!?”  At least use a real excuse like “The bridge is out!”  Speaking of Random trainers, props to the game giving you an explicit warning when you’re in danger range of a real trainer.  It’s no longer “is that guy going to attack me if I get close” but now “hey, you’re getting close to a trainer, you may want to prepare yourself”!  I also think the idea of Route Masters or whatever they’re called is a nice touch, where beating all trainers on a route opens up a bit of a Mini-boss (harder than a trainer, but easier than a Gym Leader or equivalent there of) that beating them gives you a reward like a Held Item or a TM.  Especially nice since this game lacks conventional Gyms and Gym Leaders…

And that is something the game does right: Shake up the formula.  Trials feel genuinely creative and unique, and they aren’t just “random puzzle with trainers in the way” but some arbitrary task that has nothing to do with anything but fits, like “hey, gather ingredients so we can bait out the Totem Pokemon!”  Totem Pokemon are a neat kind of boss fight, being a high level Pokemon that starts with stat buffs, has Trainer AI (so uses intelligent actions), summons allies that compliment it AND those things have intelligent AI.  For example, Lurantis has Solar Blade and comes with the “negate charge move once” item…but also then summons Pokemon that know Sunny Day to exploit this.  It also has things that buff it’s defense, heal it, etc. so you might think “Pure Grass type? That should be easy to slaughter” but then it’s faster than you, hits hard, summons Pokemon that activate Leaf Guard making it impossible to status out, and now it’s a real fight.  Neat way to handle a boss fight that isn’t just a High end Trainer, which still exist in the form of Kahunas, whom are essentially “Gym Leaders but there are less of them”, relegated more to the “Finale of this island.”

Towns have random NPCs that give you actual sidequests, usually like “Show me this Pokemon I’ll give you more money!” or something.  Nothing major, but the gesture is nice and gives you something else to do besides “progress through the story.”  Festival plaza is clunky and hurts my OCD because I like having “pure” UI and the game is constantly bothering me with that green Exclamation mark saying “HEY SOMETHING IS HAPPENING!”  Good justification to just turn off my Wifi on 3DS to be honest.  It’s the game’s primary social feature, and Pokemon honestly never really did a great job with those anyway, I feel like it’s putting effort into something that most won’t care about and would rather the effort be put elsewhere.  Pokepelago is nice having a bunch of features condensed there, like they took the Daycare Centers EXP and shoved it there instead, can get random items from expeditions, berry farming, what have you.  Not a fan of random Pokemon attacking you out of nowhere because sometimes you’re standing still then BAM, random little shit in the grass that was off-screen bee-lined you.  Yes, it’s my fault, but I’m still whining about it!  Move Relearner being changed to allow you to use any move you could learn via level up even if you’re not high enough is really cool, as now those level 90 moves are reasonable…the downside is can’t use Move Relearner until just before the E4. I guess that’s a fair trade-off, especially since the E4, as is normal for Pokemon, is a bit of ramp up in difficulty due to being the Final Boss gauntlet (not a complaint; it’s fair and valid in this case.)

One last thing I want to touch upon before I get into my team is that I’ll give Gen 7 something that I can’t give Gen 8, and that’s the game DOESN’T feel like a soulless yearly release cash grab.  It did probably come out too quickly (where’s our Z Version :( ) but given the 20th Anniversary, I can see why they did that; they wanted something big to celebrate the milestone.  There are a number of subtle things the game does that show they still cared, like cinematics are clearly an attempt at doing something visually pleasing, the plot feels actually written with a purpose, not just misguided nonsense that gets interrupted by a completely irrelevant story, nor does it have obvious plotholes the game itself points out (No seriously; Gen 8 has a moment where Leon literally says to the villain “Wait, if the problem is 1000 years off, why can’t we hold off until to tomorrow, and do this WITHOUT putting anyone in danger?” and the game’s response is basically “Because fuck you, that’s why!”)  Heck, the existence of something like Mimikyu and how they completely capitalized on it’s popularity immediately with stuff like the Mimikyu rap shows they were paying attention to the fanbase.  Later games it’s like “So…Gen 1 Pokemon are popular, let’s use those!” and if they needed something popular, ONLY use Gen 1!  Because stuff like Greninja or Lucario, or any Post-Gen 1 Eevee aren’t super popular in their own right, nope! Gotta be the “Safe” choices!  It also didn’t have Dexit, though no National Dex to keep track but whatever.  Why bring up Dexit?  It’s more what it represents than the act itself.  Gamefreak up through Gen 7 had a “play how you want” mentality, letting you use whatever Pokemon was available whenever, but then Gen 8 limits it with the reason of “new Models” which…you know what? I can accept a technical limitation, that’s fine.  The issue is that they lied openly to justify this design decision that backpedals on the design philosophy of Pokemon, as well as other factors like “EXP SHARE IS A MUST NOW!” without justifying why it’s superior forcing it on when Gen 6 and 7 already implemented the same EXP Share with a toggle on/off.  The failures with Gen 7 would be more execution based or things like “didn’t consider it would be a problem until after the fact”, not a result of “They didn’t care”, but Gen 8 absolutely has that “They just didn’t care!” mentality.  Who “they” is up for debate, but Gen 7 still feels like it has some kind of heart and soul that Gen 8 just completely lacks.  I bring this up because Gen 8 on paper doesn’t really sound that much worse, but playing it you can’t help but feel something is missing that Gen 7 had.  I think the fact is Gen 7 still had some semblance of passion left in making the game (and maybe because “This is the 20th Anniversary, make it count!”), while Gen 8 came off as “FINE! HERE’S ANOTHER ONE! HAPPY!?”  For a microcosm, with the exception of Lance (who is stupid and I’ve ranted about), all Champions have their ace as something well represented of their region or at least Generation in the case of Diantha (Mega Gardevoir), so what does Leon have?  Charizard, which is like the “Safe” Popular Pokemon pick.  Oh but it Gigantimax’s, that makes up for it…except not really.  See, Diantha has the excuse of “No Gen 6 has a Mega evolution”, and Megas really did feel like whole new Pokemon, so it’s a fair compromise.  Gen 8, there are a fair number of Gigantimax Pokemon from Galar, AND Gigantimax is a 3 turn buff, not a permanent state, so you don’t feel like you’re facing a new Pokemon, just a scary mode you have to weather for 3 turns. 

And with that, here’s my team!


Decidueye: Honestly, disappointing.  Grass/Ghost felt more awkward than good, and basically EVERYTHING I’d use him had a Dark move I felt like in this region, most notable Sucker Punch.  It’s stuck with Razor Leaf for too long (though gets Leaf Blade at least eventually.)
Delphox: Kind of underwhelming due to lack of Fire specials or reall good special attacks until it evolves and gets Mystical Fire, which helps a little…then it gets Flamethrower and Psychic, and suddenly becomes good, with Dazzling Gleam for some extra perks.  So yeah, slow start, but good finish, especially with Choice Specs. 
Infernape: Kind of all over the place?  There are points where I felt he was lacking, then points where he would absolutely dominate.  So I guess “Circumstantially amazing” explains him.
Swampert: Consistently good.  Always had some kind of decent Water and Ground STAB, could use Rock moves for flying types, often had a special effect, and he’s tanky.  Only problem is I’d often forget to use him on Electric types, and “OH SHIT A GRASS MOVE!” moments.
Feraligatr: Kind of wish I picked Samurott simply because Fera doesn’t learn jack shit for leveling, can’t get a good Water physical until right before the E4 with Move Relearner, and his only Water STAB for most of the game is Water Gun until Poni Island where he finally gets Scald which while Special, is still a huge step up.  Lack of a Second STAB hurts, can’t get Dragon Dance easily…yeah, pretty sure he’s my LVP.  He has a decent off-type Movepool, but his stats always felt just not specialized enough (not as a Tank as I’d like, didn’t hit as hard as I’d like, etc.)
Venusaur: Was always good but changed how he was good.  Sleep Powder and Leech Seed worked nicely as strategies, gets Petal Dance incredibly early to hit hard, but before then has Grass Knot and Nature Power, struggles with things that resist Grass, then Sludge Bomb shows up and covers that!  Swapped Sleep Powder with Toxic because the way I was using Sleep Powder often meant Toxic was just better anyway and couldn’t miss.  Also basically only thing that had reliable way to scare off Fairies late game (though Delphox often could out muscle them due to it’s defensive advantage and enough offense.)

And with that, my “play every Pokemon game through Gen 7” comes to an end.  This was interesting, took longer due to breaks, but it’s done.  Not gonna do Gen 8 because that will just
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A