New ranking ideas?

[DjinnAndTonic]

Okay, so there's been a lot of discussion about what we're going to do come the next ranking period - cut down the number of games ranked, only rank a few Forgotten Warriors, be more critical during the second stage of rankings, etc. A lot of this stems from the fact that there seems to be very few good ranking ideas for the upcoming period. I'm sure we've had some iteration of this topic before, but I thought I'd bring it up while we're discussing it.

The main problem seems to be - do we rank more to keep the DL fresh and current with new games so more people will vote? OR: Do we rank less so that there's fewer games to play so that the DL seems more accessible and therefore get more people to vote? Both sides have their points, but it really comes down to what games are available and how they can help or hinder the DL.

So... let's break it down. What kinds of games do you think have the most interesting new duelers (good for finding FWs), what games do you think will have the most draw based on playership, and then just what games would you like to see in the DL, all statistic and objective considerations aside?

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1.
2.
3.

Games w/ best Draw:
1.
2.
3.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1.
2.
3.

[Dhyerwolf]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Brave Story- It's spread of dueller abilities is awesome! Note, I completely haven't played this game at all.
2. Luminous Arc- It has the problematic MP issues/levelling and healing, but it also has a really nice skillset spread. The flaws against it's (interest wise) are that status rates are generally too atrocious, and the speed spread style bores me.
3. Tough to choose a third...I might pick Persona 3 if the weaknesses are more set in stone. Pokemon DP certainly has arguments to go here too. Actually, I'll go with MMXCM with it's nice coterie of potential low Godlike PCs and a quirky cast.

Games w/ best Draw:
1. I think any real drawing power left is in unranked FWs who we've generally rejected for other reasons.
2. Of fully unranked games, LP:T may be the best draw. Shame about the number of extreme fodder PCs it has.
3. KH is probably up next draw wise (Actually maybe ahead of LP:T. I just scanned NR topics and saw which unranked games did the best), but it has a different host of issues!

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Radiata Stories- But really only Jack. Cool Godlike that I'm a fan of.
2. Wild Arms 5- Whee Godlikes.
3. MMXCM- No bosses though! Maybe the HP->1 boss.

[OblivionKnight]

Mostly keeping this to games that have a chance in the future.

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Persona 3!  Minato is awesome - ban Lucifer, and he's still an amazing Godlike.  Even without Armageddon, his options are badass.  The other characters are all different (weaknesses are interesting), though most follow the elemental healer line.  Oh well.  Also, bosses are good - Chidori makes for a badass Light slapfight with Arietta, Takaya is a strong boss in general, Jin has no damage but freakish amounts of options, and the final (who is rankable) is a powerhouse of endurance and a mix of everything.  Sexy. 
2. Disgaea 2.  Mostly because hey have a bit of uniqueness to the cast unlike in Disgaea 1.  They're still high on damage, but different skills (damage to higher level enemies, amnesia infliction, etc.) make all bosses and PCs unique. 
3. Mega Man X Command Mission.  Already been gone over, but it brings a lot of options in each cast member, and some neat bosses.  And several are very rankable, which is good.  Godlike and Heavy fun.

Games w/ best Draw:
1. Symphony of the Night.  The draw and interest are both there, which is good.  Small as hell ranking (Alucard, Richter, Dracula, Shaft, Death at the absolute best, more likely only 1-2 people at best in practice), and people might be against it, but it's there for the draw.
2. La Pucelle: Tactics.  Has grown over time, which is good.  Has good people as well, and has shown it can get wins.  Not the best, but...good.
3. Kingdom Hearts.  Small rank like SotN (uh...well, practically - theoretically, there are a lot of people to rank), with other issues, but can draw.

*FWs take the top spot, but they aren't really a new game, so I didn't put them there.  By FW, I mean WA4 remaining bosses, FE7/8 remaining characters, etc.  For test characters, I'm not huge on them anymore, but I'd call them Test characters.  For them, I'd be calling things like Charles Barkley, Ari, etc.)

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Persona 3
2. Disgaea 2
3. Eternal Sonata - might have the best chance of the newer, next-gen games?  Unless you want to hype Thousand Arms!  Mostly because it's coming on to 2 systems, though FE getting Wii attention might help...but hey, I want Godlike Chopin, damnit!

*Figured I'd keep these fairly clean - or I'd be hyping Great Greed, here >_>

[superaielman]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Pass on this catagory right now.
2.
3.

Games w/ best Draw:
1. Kingdom Hearts (I'm ignoring things like SotN and Pokemon RBY that have zero chance of being ranked)
2. Disgaea 2- Done sort of okay.
3. WA5/FE9? Uh... mm. WA5 I guess.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Parasite Eve- Aya FW works for me.
2. Phantom Brave- Ash. Maybe Walnut and Raphael.
3. Front Mission 4- PC's that aren't temps, Glaeaser, Wagner, Ivanova, maybe Valilov.

[OblivionKnight]

Now, a separate post detailing thoughts on games that have a decent chance in the foreseeable future (i.e., the big 3 I've seen mentioned...well, big 2 mostly with a 3rd kind of, so...uh...).

Fire Emblem 9
The chances of this are...eh...interesting.  As a draw, it should be decent - GC and Wii playable, has a sequel with carry-over, is a FE game, etc.  The usual "OMG FE lolzorz" will commence, as always, but you'll get that with every game.  In terms of interest...skills help, but otherwise it's normal FE.  I'd like to see it, personally, but what will hurt it is the aftershocks of FE8's ranking, and the fact that it is a FE game.  There are lots of ways to rank from it, and if Naesala is not ranked, I kill everyone here at DLCon 3 (assuming I can make it...). 

Wild ARMs 5
Similar to FE9.  Hasn't taken off as well as expected, but is still doing decent enough.  Draw-wise...eh, could be a lot worse.  It's decent enough to be ranked, around par with FE9, possibly a bit better?  What's the statistical power of NR compared to the DL, anyway?  That aside...in terms of interest, the PCs are generally shitastic for combat worth (better character-wise than FE9, though!).  The best...depends on if you allow Greg the Sword medium?  If not, it's a Middle Carol, the rest around Light (Mountain Medium helps Avril a little, but not much) - well, unless you're like me and compare Rebecca to starting Dean, in which case she is a badass Middle, but that's probably in the minority.  The bosses are decent enough, though many of them have a similar mold, and there are arguments to DNR some of the bosses and PCs (due to split).  WA4 was much more interesting, in general.  I would like to see it in, again, and being WA5, it probably will make it in at some point, though it won't get the following WA4 has.

Xenosaga 3
Votedraw has been questionable.  Again, that's all NR, which is sometimes questionable, but is decently enough reliable, I think (should calc that at some point).  Also, people need to stop telling people not to play the game >_>  That aside, draw...bleh.  It's borderline low for me on the rankable side.  I want the game in, though - neat bosses and PCs (well, temps, but all 3 are badass in their own ways), extra forms for those who want a game ranked before they vote on new forms, etc.  Plus, big game, big way to end the series that's been a part of the DL.  Drawing...is something to improve upon.  Mmm...Might get in?  This is questionable.

Disgaea 2
Votedraw is not as bad as I expected it would be (it's growing - 40% or so vs. P3 is somewhat impressive for both).  Still could use improvement, but...yeah.  It actually brings some interesting characters to the table - the skills Disgaea 2 added to plot characters with different stat affinities helps a lot, and skillsets are a bit more varied in most instances.  Extra forms for other characters, too!  Though that could be argued as a reason not to rank the game.  Still, it's got a decent chance, just needs more playability.  SHALE!!!!

La Pucelle: Tactics
On and off as an idea.  Votedraw isn't bad (Disgaea 2 level, IIRC), and growing.  Has been brought up several times in the past.  Note to self, redo topic a bit.  Anyway, characters are kind of interesting (moreso than D1, less than D2?), with some healing, some questions of form choice, etc.  Bosses...bleh.  Noir and the 3 generals at best, and no one cares about the generals.  Interesting enough game, but...has a good shot. 

Ok, I said I'd just do 3, but let's go a bit further here, shall we?

Honestly, in the foreseeable future, it might be in our best interest for the next 2 ranking periods or so to just rank FWs/Remainder characters.  Things like FE7/8 remainders (yes, I know they were shot down - this is the best example I can think of at the moment), perhaps Sora, etc.  Let people get back in to the DL (need to advertise/support that more), get caught up, then work on new stuff.  There's plenty of interesting people that weren't ranked that aren't awful ranks that could be added. Being cautious for a bit wouldn't hurt, and would make these other ideas look better over time.  So, I'm all for being cautious for a while - if we ranked one of the new games...eh...I don't know which I'd prefer.  Persona 3, but that won't make it that far yet >_>  Probably WA5, but I don't feel strongly there.

Eh, probably more to talk about later.

[Ultradude]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Xenosaga 3
And games I haven't played like MMXCM

Games w/ best Draw:
1. Kingdom Hearts. Has had a better draw than a lot of things for a long time. That won't make me play it though...
2. LP:T
3. ehhh... wanting to say FE9, I've played it after all. Probably WA5 or Dis2 though.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. XS3. Lots of variety in the new PC forms and temps, and a wealth of interesting bosses. Dmitri Yuriev is highly anticipated.
2. Wild ARMs 5. It's Wild ARMs, and Carol is one of the best duelists. Also, new Godlikes, though... they're all the same pretty much, unless you rank ZeromuVolsung.
3. Fire Emblem 9. Has duelers with somewhat interesting skills, I like FE, and makes some people here convulse. A winning combination!

[VySaika]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. MMXCM. Nice diverse cast, some good BoF style godlike bosses to hype as well.
2. Pokemon Gen 4. I happen to like pokemon in the DL, as they translate to the duel format perfectly.
3. Persona 3? Sure.

Games w/ best Draw:
1. Pass on this. I don't keep up with drawing numbers in general.
2.
3.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Jack from RS.
2. Ash, Walnut and maybe Raphiel from PB.
3. FE9.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. FW Gust RPG characters. Choose an Atelier Iris game's main character(s), they tend to have really interesting options. Also, the Reyvateils (Misha and Aurica) from Ar Tonelico have some interesting tricks, and are arguably more memorable than even the main character.
2. Parasite Eve's Aya would probably be ranked already if it wasn't for certain aspects of the series that make it hard to rank.
3. For a pretty massive skillset cast, try out Growlanser 5, though I doubt anyone will.

Games w/ best Draw:
1. Kingdom Hearts. I could support FW Sora here.
2. La Pucelle Tactics is pretty good in this particular community, though its limited release hurts it.
3. WA5/FE9/Per3 are all pretty big names. FF12 could probably go here, too, but who cares?

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Jeanne D'Arc - just a really cool game that I wish was on a system other than PSP so that it would have a shot at being ranked. A small ranking would be best here.
2. Growlanser 2 - Splitpath story game with interesting SRPG battle objectives. Hans hype?
3. Jack (and maybe Ridley) from Radiata Stories, probably ties with PB Ash FW and FE9 here.

[alanna82]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Fire Emblem 9/10 - The PC's have skills now!
2. Persona 3
3. Radiata Stories- it has punies, they are interesting

Games w/ best Draw:
1. Kingdom Hearts (why isnt Sora ranked yet! I've been nomminating him for years in the ranking polls)
2. Fire Emblem 9/10
3. Disgaea 2/La Pucelle

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Re rank Phantasy Star 3 (hey, it said no judgements  and ignore the stats here )
2. Radiata Stories- Jack and Clive at least
3. Fire Emblem 9/10

[Dark Holy Elf]

Expanding things to four because I was having trouble deciding on the fourth. Alphabetical beyond that.

Games w/ Interesting Duellers (ninja canadianisation go):
-MMXCM. Really neat, unusual PC cast with the Hyper Modes and WE system. Boss cast isn't bad either.
-Persona 3. Sounds like DDS+, outside that Minato chap. Well-defined skillsets and yay weaknesses!
-Pokemon DP. Pokemon duellers are always pretty neat.
-Wild Arms XF. Sounds like a return to WA4's tricksomeness. Maybe not quite as awesome, but still neat.

Games w/ best Draw:
-Disgaea 2. Still needs more internal. External seems okay. Is a relevant game with enough demand, should get in eventually.
-Fire Emblem 9. Still needs more internal. External seems okay. Is a relevant game with enough demand, should get in eventually.
-Kingdom Hearts. Clearly the best external, has questions about being an RPG though.
-Wild Arms 5. Sequel to extremely successful WA4 guarantees a certain base. Like Dis2 and FE9, ranking it would probably cause more people to pick it up and push it over the top.

DP deserves note for probably being able to reach this group soon if not already, but I'm assuming that it being Pokemon will slow it up some.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
-FE9. It's really starting to feel overdue.
-MMXCM. Hell yeah. Great game, great duellers.
-Pokemon DP. Shock, it has interesting duellers and I can vote on it.
-WA5. It's got some neat bosses at least. But less interested, here.

[Dhyerwolf]

Because I also like making lists: a summary of general ideas.

Disgaea 2
It's drawing is improving, although Rozalin doing 52% against FFT Knight says it's not there yet. The cast has a few somewhat interesting PCs in Adell, Taro, and Yukimaru, but no one all that interesting (And a few jobbers in Tink, Rozalin, and Hanako). Final boss looks decentish too. I'm interested enough in the game to play it (And considering my thoughts in D1...yeah, that means something), so I think it could shape up perhaps.

Fire Emblem 9
A Fire Emblem without the notable advantage the other ones had: big draw. It loses Killer weapons, which is good. It has skills...except only Renewal, Reinforce and Mastery Skills seem to be the ones that are actually any notable difference between what FE duellers already do (Counter, Crit, Have Stat Differences and Evade). So basically, not a game I'm for. Could see FWing some of the unique ones. However, some of the unique ones also have an apparentally Heavy/Godlike split between 9 and 10 (And with ranking a lot of them, it feels a lot different than Jin, which was only one character). So yeah, it mostly boils down to a Fire Emblem without the strength that the other FEs have is not a game I'd support DLwise.

Kingdom Hearts
No in game damage numbers still feels too problematic to me!

La Pucelle Tactics
Drawing is there to a degree, but the duellers just bore me to death. Only the two strong ones really have anything interesting about them (1/2 average damage+Healing isn't really interesting, even if its more interesting that Disgaea dullers). Despite not having played either this or D2 yet, D2's prospects feel more much exciting and interesting to me.

Megaman Command X Mission or whatever its initials stand for.
Duellers are awesome, draw is improving...slowly! Well, I don't like the boss duellers mostly because the plot ones generally seemed bad in game but awesome in duel, which isn't a good combo with a game with drawing like this at all. An internal push could help it along a lot, but not sure it really has the outside strength. Hard to say.

Persona 3
Well, Mitsuru pulled 38% against Axel...so not abysmal. It does have internal which is still growing at a decent rate. Dunno, seems like a possible prospect because as a game it's generally been pretty well received (So better chances of continual growth). DDS has done decently at least so far.

Pokemon Diamond/Pearl
I no longer have any issues with Pokemon being ranked and quite enjoy them as duellers. Certainly, if any DS/PSP game was going to have the draw to be ranked, I'd imagine it would be this one. After I played D2/P3/ST, handhelds are probably next on my list.

Radiata Stories
Well, my opinions on this are generally clear enough! But yeah, Jack is an interesting dueller, write up bait, a decent draw, and seems to have fans.

Wild Arms 5
Maybe not the most interesting duellers or the best draw, but it feels like the best rank to me. Decent combination of the two, and for some reason I can't really pinpoint, it feels like it's a higher profile game (Even though it definetely isn't).

Xenosaga 3
Well, dead in terms of growth hurts it a fair amount, and Allen didn't do well against Psyduck this time sadly. Wish it could at least get to some passable point for us to fully rank/rerank Jin though.

[Meeplelard]

For categories #2 and #3, I more or less agree with Elfboy's assessments, so taking the lazy way out there.

For category 1?
-MMXCM.  Just a fun cast, etc.
-Fire Emblem 4 and 10. Yes, yes, worse than FE9 in every way, but this is "interesting duelers" and FE10 actually produces some neat ones, such like *2* PCs who might hit Godlike, something you don't expect from FEs, not to mention some actually decent Godlike bosses (instead of "lol average heavy at best" fodder.) Skill system is taken up a notch as well (such like Ike now is a pure physical fighter that doesn't ignore Evade...yet still trounces Tidus.) Again, as a reminder, this was "interesting duelers."
Ranked those two together since they actually are interesting for a lot of the same reasons.  Figures the FEs with the most interesting duelers don't really have any chance of being ranked in the remotely near future.
-Pokemon DP.  Its Pokemon, it tends to produce decent duelers, especially since I think this game has the most interesting set of starters (Infernape and Empoleon, at very least, are pretty neat, Torterra...forget what he can do besides "Hit things with Earthquake or Wood Hammer til they die")
-Suikoden Tactics. Lots of neat alternative forms for duelers, makes Lazlo more interesting, and a few new PCs that don't totally fail (Corselia, Kyril, Andarc and Seneca all at least have some Rune that has DL merit.)

[Twilkitri]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Super Robot Wars Any. Of course there is the side effect that all the half-interesting ones tend to trash everything when they're not concerned about SP consumption.
2. Dragon Slayer Gaiden.
3. Legend/4 Crystals

Games w/ best Draw:
1. This is a pointless category
2.
3.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Mystic. Quest.
2. Baten Kaitos to see the crying
3. Uh, Planescape? I dunno

[Andemon]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Persona 3. 
2. Disgaea 2.
3. Luminous Arc.

Games w/ best Draw:
1-3. Meh. Ranking games based on draw == Kingdom Hearts and even more Pokemon == utter fail.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Rerank Persona 2.
2. Fire Emblem 9.
3. Ultima VII; Avatar for the Godlike. Not bloody likely, but you said no judgments.

[Sierra]

Games w/ Interesting Duelists:
1. Persona 3.
2. Wild ARMs 5? Well, "interesting" is kind of a stretch, but it's all I've got here.
3. Growlanser 2. Hans hype is go, yes. Never happening, of course.

Games w/ best Draw:
1-3. Meh. Ranking games based on draw == Kingdom Hearts and even more Pokemon == utter fail.

No judgements, what games do you, personally, want to see in the DL?
1. Wild ARMs 5.
2. Persona 2 again.
3. Persona 3.