Star Ocean 3 (RPGMon topic)

[Captain K.]

Work in progress.  I'm attempting to put this game into something RPGMon refs can work with.

Full topic is here:  http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=294.0
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Character running speeds compared to average.  These are *not* attack speeds - those are already included in the damage averages below.  As a ref, there's two ways you can handle SO3 speed.  1) Treat all characters as average speed, using these numbers only as tiebreaks.  2)  Use these numbers as the character's speed.  Not really accurate, but it makes Peppita and Maria more manageable.

Fayt 1.32x
Mirage 1.17x
Nel 1.16x
Cliff 1.12x
Albel 1.08x
Adray .99x
Sophia .94x
Roger .91x
Peppita .87x
Maria .72x

=============
After each character's name is their stats, with the multiplier comparison to average.  Note that there is no magic defense in this game - all characters take average damage from magic.  It is recommended that you ignore AGL and HIT.  Under normal circumstances, characters do not miss or evade.

Below the character's stats are the damage multipliers for each "combo" a character has.  Not a comprehensive list of combos, but someone playing one of these characters can choose one from this list to use during the match.  These combos are set and cannot be altered during battle.

All of these are HP damage only, and both attack speed and character strength are already factored into the numbers.  MP damage is another kettle of fish and I'll deal with that later.  Spells are also not included yet, whether menu cast or set as a combo (Adray and Sophia).

Refs may wish to disallow any combo with FAM listed (Full Active Mode).  This is a special gameplay mode accessible only after getting 95% of the battle trophies (in other words, the vast majority of SO3 players will never see it).

Adray -

HP 12848 (.96x), MP 2599 (1.14x), ATT 1106 (1.03x), DEF 266 (.84x), AGL 419, HIT 432, INT 367

Charge -> Charge (FAM) (Adray) 1.07
Sea Gate -> Titan Fist .66  (Water/Earth element, ? chance of confusion, paralysis, or petrify)
Aerial -> Aerial .67
Titan Fist -> Titan Fist .5 (Earth element, ? chance of confusion, paralysis, or petrify)
Fire Bolt -> Emotion Torrent .3 (Fire/random element [Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, or Non])

Albel -

HP 14240 (1.06x), MP 2112 (.93x), ATT 1096 (1.02x), DEF 351 (1.11x), AGL 450, HIT 467, INT 129

*Palm of Destruction -> Palm of Destruction 1.22
*Double Slash -> Double Slash of Fury 1.22
Short X 1.12
Hand of Doom -> Hand of Doom .99
Air Slash -> Vampiric Flash .54 (Wind/non element, 100% draining)
Double Slash -> Dragon Roar  .44
Air Slash -> Air Slash .89 (Wind element)
Aerial -> Charge  .86

Cliff -

HP 15753 (1.18x), MP 1850 (.81x), ATT 1208 (1.13x), DEF 361 (1.15x), AGL 437, HIT 427, INT 104

~Charge -> Charge (FAM)  1.6
*Hammer of Might -> Hammer of Might  1.5 (Fire element) [can't be evaded]
Short O (FAM) 1.4
Short X 1.36
Max Shockwave -> Max Shockwave 1.22
Sphere of Might  -> Aerial Assault 1.21
Charge -> Charge  1.11
Sphere of Might -> Sphere of Might  1.04
Aerial Assault -> Aerial Assault 1.03
Fists of Fury -> Fists of Fury .81

Fayt -

HP 14482 (1.08x), MP 2082 (.91x), ATT 1056 (.98x), DEF 393 (1.25x), AGL 407, HIT 421, INT 138

*Ice Blade + Short O 1.57 (Water element)
Divine Blade + Short O 1.15
Blazing Sword + Short O 1.15 (Fire element)
Blade of Fury -> Air Raid .86 [can't be evaded]
Blade of Fury -> Ethereal Blast 1.24
Blade of Fury -> Shotgun Blast 1.12 (non/Fire element)
Blade of Fury -> Blade of Fury .8
Blade of Fury -> Dimension Door .8 (? chance of paralysis)
Dimension Door -> Dimension Door .76 (? chance of paralysis)
Lightning Blade + Short O .91 (Wind element)

Maria -

HP 11174 (.83x), MP 2748 (1.21x), ATT 1087 (1.01x), DEF 288 (.91x), AGL 434, HIT 453, INT 190

*Scatter Beam -> Scatter Beam (SHORT) 2.82
Pulse Blast -> Pulse Blast (SHORT) 1.75
Crescent Locus -> Triple Kick 1.32
Scatter Beam -> Pulse Blast (LONG) 1.26
Pulse Blast -> Pulse Blast (LONG) (against stationary or heavily stunlocked target) 1.41
Magnetic Field -> Magnetic Field 1.11 (30% chance of paralysis)
Scatter Beam -> Radiation Bots 1.11
Crescent Locus -> Crescent Locus 1.09
Scatter Beam -> Energy Burst .88
Scatter Beam -> Scatter Beam (LONG) .73
Aiming Device -> Aiming Device .68

Mirage -

HP 13670 (1.02x), MP 2024 (.89x), ATT 1187 (1.11x), DEF 372 (1.18x), AGL 450, HIT 453, INT 123

Crescent Locus -> Triple Kick 1.45
Short O 1.35
Short X 1.22
Hammer of Might -> Hammer of Might  1.22 (Fire element) [can't be evaded]
Crescent Locus -> Crescent Locus 1.2
Aerial Assault -> Aerial Assault 1.01
Hammer of Might (Long X)/Charge (Short X) -> Avenger Charge .8 (Fire element)
Hammer of Might (Long X)/Charge (Short X) -> Infinity Kick .64 (Fire/non element)

Nel -

HP 12928 (.97x), MP 2412 (1.06x), ATT 1021 (.95x), DEF 328 (1.04x), AGL 450, HIT 482, INT 181

~300% Whirlwind (FAM) 1.79 (Wind element)
*250% Whirlwind 1.64 (Wind element)
Poison Cloud -> Divine Wrath 1.09 (25% chance of poison)
Ice Daggers -> Ice Daggers 1.09 (Water element, ? chance of freeze)
Poison Cloud -> Splitting Sky (FAM or SHORT) (200% Cancel Bonus) .76 (non/Wind element,  25% chance of poison)
Charge -> Mirror Slice 1.03
Flying Guillotine -> Splitting Sky (175% Cancel Bonus) .61 (non/Wind element)

Peppita

HP 12086 (.9x), MP 2291 (1.01x), ATT 1043 (.97x), DEF 238 (.76x), AGL 396, HIT 467, INT 143

Power Dance -> Dream Hammer 3.5
Power Dance -> Short O 2.8
Power Dance -> Faerie Friend 2.71
Power Dance -> Kaboom 2.27 (10% chance of instant death) [can't be evaded]
Short O 1.52
Healing/Magical Dance -> Dream Hammer 1.27 (18% HP recovery or 35% MP recovery)
Healing/Magical Dance -> Faerie Friend .95 (18% HP recovery or 35% MP recovery)
Healing/Magical Dance -> Kaboom .93 (10% chance of instant death) (18% HP recovery or 35% MP recovery)  [can't be evaded]

Roger -

HP 15585 (1.16x), MP 1872 (.82x), ATT 1192 (1.11x), DEF 365 (1.16x), AGL 418, HIT 450, INT 109

Special O (FAM) 1.6
Charge -> Charge (FAM)  1.58
Short O 1.58
Special O 1.41
Bug Triad + Charge -> Charge 1.28
300% Bug Triad (FAM) + Special O (Increase HP/MP Damage) 1.28
Charge -> Charge  1.48
Charge -> Raging Helmet 1.23
250% Bug Triad + Short O (Increase HP/MP Damage)  1.18
Bug Triad + Short O 1.14
Raging Helmet -> Raging Helmet 1.0
Whirling Heat -> Raging Helmet .97 (? chance of confusion)

Sophia -

HP 11115 (.83x), MP 2769 (1.22x), ATT 732 (.68x), DEF 194 (.62x), AGL 381, HIT 427, INT 465

Short O (FAM) 1.07
Short O .84

[Clear Tranquil]

Oh thank god.

Captain K! <333 = My reaction to this topic being made.

Ok a few questions -

* MGSB was doing his testing with all the skills at L10 - are you using the same formula?

* I've already been discussing this with Tal but do you allow L10 proficiency for healing/support skills (Nel's Healing, Peppita's dances, Maria's Power Up, etc?)

* MGSB used minus fury equipment factors for those combos - what's your stance on IC in the DL/RPGmon - PC based?

[Captain K.]

Those are directly from MGSB's numbers.  Yes, there are some things in there that aren't appropriate (like the -Fury factors).  But my goal with this is to have a "plug and play" stat topic so RPGMon refs don't have to spend hours trying to figure out how to adapt an action RPG to a turn-based system.

I'll try to have it done before our match.  *goes to decrease the stats on all CT's fighters*

[Clear Tranquil]

<_<

I DEMAND a full Healing Dance > Magical Dance combo - also Panic Dance yes mmm hmm 

Peppita dun have to cancel her dances straight away *runs*

Actually Power Dance > Dream Hammer is EVIL. I don't want to use it if I don't have to.

Umm ... this list ... you can't change a battle skill combo in battle ... I get that - it applies it game also. However they still have access to all of their physical attacks right? o_o 'Cause that's what would apply in game. For the sake of simplicity just the ones listed here would be fine =-)

[Sierra]

El Capitan, going to give us Nel's Freeze odds on Ice Daggers? She can end a lot of matches a helluva lot quicker with the status hax.

[Clear Tranquil]

IMO just a suggestion but I think maybe people should alternate between OK's topic and this one. I mean this one is GREAT for the direct damage values but there's other stuff in the other one non damage related like healing and status values and whatnot that people might want to use =/

Edit - Oh - Heh there already IS an Ice Daggers combo in this topic <_<

[Captain K.]

The only status odds I have are the ones buried in Nephrite's topic on the old forums.  If it's not there, I don't have it.  If anyone is willing to do testing, it would be a great help.  I know we need status hit rates for Whirling Heat, Titan Fist, and Dimension Door.

Yes, a character should have access to both a combo and a normal attack.  I'll try and separate those out.  The only problem is that MGSB didn't include numbers for every character's normal attacks.  CT, see if you can bug him to test more types of attacks.

And again, the topic is a work in progress.  Much more I still need to add.

[Clear Tranquil]

Alright ... bit of a contention point in RPGmon last night. I didn't pick a bone then because Tal + S03 + headache = no and don't argue with the ref and such but for future reference ...

When I tested Healing Dance and Magical Dance values Peppita was at 1 HP for the former and 1 MP for the later. A full uncancelled Healing Dance heals 13'400+ HP which is easily full healing for her DL levels and the same applies to her MP being fully restored. When I used either of those dances in game on Peppita's turn if she's hurt her HP or MP gets fully restored. Now to me in game to get the full use of those dances in game it'd be full healing or mana recovery for Peppita before doing anything else unless I was merely it as cancel fodder or such. Now granted it's up to each individual how they take things ... and live and let live and all that. Just throwing that out there and it's the amount of HP/MP restored I'd put on Peppita's page on the wiki =/ However yeah let each person take it as they will when it comes to future matches

Edit - Ok ... been trying to work out ways around this that would allow everybody to settle on a happy medium.

Factoring cancel combos -

Using Captain's formulas -

Healing Dance (18% HP) > Healing Dance (18%) - 36% Healing (Peppita used 50 Fury)

Healing Dance (18% HP) > Healing Dance (18%) > Healing Dance (18%) - 54% Healing (Peppita used 65 Fury)

Adding info for dance types variations later (Panic Dance > Healing Dance > etc, Healing > Magical, etc, etc <_<)

Also Peppita wiki is up >_>

Edit - Ok whee PS2 access today so can test Fayt/Roger statuses ;p If I get the Peppita wiki completed I might also be willing to do pages for another four characters too <_<

[Sierra]

The only status odds I have are the ones buried in Nephrite's topic on the old forums.  If it's not there, I don't have it.  If anyone is willing to do testing, it would be a great help.  I know we need status hit rates for Whirling Heat, Titan Fist, and Dimension Door.

I can try to hash something out for Ice Daggers this weekend (for great justice and Nel hype). Dimension Door too. Assuming I can find enemies that don't break in one hit, at least (my only saves are uberpowered aftergame files).

[Clear Tranquil]

Ok apart from chaos effect (Panic Danic, Peppita's 4 Hit Counter O, Albel's Aura Wall) status hit rates in S03 are basically crap w/o Berserk or any sort of minus fury factors. Unfortunately for Nel fans even *with* Berserk and max minus fury factors from refined rings of amnosity an Ice Daggers > Ice Daggers combo only gets to a 250% cancel bonus due to the move's horrendous fury costs =/ I hate to say it but its seems OK's hit rate of 30% hit rate is pretty accurate =/

Personally I think we should be allowing Berserk for status moves at least to give the characters more of a fighting chance. Remember Nel also has Lightning Chain for paralysis and irrc that can get quite a number of hits for increased chance of paralysis so that chained w/th Berserk on sounds like a good deal for her.

*With* Berserk and the minus fury factors (basically allowing for what the Captain is allowing in his list anyway) uncancelled held down Energy Burst and Dimension Door seem to be pretty much 80 - 100% chance of paralysis. At least Energy Burst seemed to paralysis either every first or second time I let off a full burst of it. What does that translate as? ;p

For the record I was testing on the Convictors outside Kirsla on disc two El Cid. As I said in another topic though enemies in S03 each have their own status abnormality resistance so I'm not sure how that should be taken really <_<

Also considering chaos - enemy can't act, takes 5% HP and MP damage per turn ... seems the average amount of turns the enemy remains confused for is 2 based on the testing I did after confusing enemies with Peppita's counter O - She was usually able to get in two short Os before the enemy wore off the chaos effect status. So allowing a S03 character two extra turns whilst the opponent is confused sound about right to peeps?

[Sierra]

For the record I was testing on the Convictors outside Kirsla on disc two El Cid. As I said in another topic though enemies in S03 each have their own status abnormality resistance so I'm not sure how that should be taken really <_<

Ew, I was afraid of that.

[Captain K.]

Just tell me what area you want to test in, and I'll give you an enemy that doesn't resist status.  Brady guide has all the status resistances listed for enemies.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well then I'd be looking for the enemy with the lowest SA resistance available  From my experiences I'd say enemies on disc one seem to be more susceptible to status ... so any area that hasn't been executionerified on disc two might be good. Umm ... Kirlsa caverns, Traum mountain path, Beqeural mountin path, Mt Barr, Barr Ruins, lava caves before the cave temple, Airyglyph Aquaducts, Vanguard

[Sierra]

My save's in Spiral Tower, so I think that works well enough. The enemies are wholly nonthreatening at aftergame levels, but also don't die in one hit (once I de-equip my weapons, that is).

[Clear Tranquil]

Ok ... found a couple of interesting enemies to test on. From the Brady Guide slime/jelly type enemies only have a measly 20% SA resistance. Unfortunately for Nel and Peppita they absorb water/ice =/ Enter the Necromancer from the Passage of Parch and Plenty with an SA resistance of 31%. From the testing I've done so far Nel's Ice Daggers' freeze rate is on crack. It *can* miss but it's rare. Annoying area to test in though since Necromancers like to spam spells like there is no tomorrow and come with speedy snake companions. In the end I had Peppita take out the other enemies leaving me one Necromancer to be free to work with.

Edit - Oh yeah ... those goat things in Spiral Tower have an SA resistance of 50% El Cid.

Ok screw that - Lesser Devils/Devil Child - MoT/Fighting arena - SA resistance of 16%. Lowest SAR in the game thank you Brady!

Nel w/th Berserk ON + -4 fury factors w/th Ice Daggers > Ice Daggers chains - 84~% chance of freezing. She freezes constantly - I once managed to freeze and refreeze an enemy thirteen times in a row - but *very* rarely didn't hit with the status.

Edit - Ok my results so far -

Nel - Ice Daggers > Ice Daggers chains w/th Berserk + -4 fury reduction - 84% chance of freezing
*Need to test Lightning Chain's paralysis

Peppita - Power Dance > Frozen Daggers 175% cancel (Berserk was on but she can do this w/o it anyway) <_< - 74% chance of freezing

Counter O - 100% chance of chaos effect (confusion)

Counter X - 70% chance of chaos effect

Maria -

Magnetic Field > Magnetic Field - 175% cancel no Berserk - 60% chance of paralysis
Long X Energy Burst no Berserk) - 90% chance of paralysis

Bear in mind I'm not exactly sure exactly what I'm doing or whether or not I'm testing status rates right. MGSB is going to get his own results to compare I think ;p

[Clear Tranquil]

Not sure if Captain K saw this yet but MGSB's status test results are up -


* Note below his information will be my information on how many times the skill hits etc.

"Statuses, random statuses...

Not very precise, just estimations from using the attacks a bunch of times against 16 SA Lesser Devils. % are rated on a per hit basis, not the entire move.

Dimension Door- 20% paralysis

(Need to confirm number of hits)

Aiming Device- 60% chaos
(1 Hit)

Magnetic Field- 30% paralysis
(need to confirm number of hits)

Energy Burst- 10% paralysis
(need to confirm number of hits)

Poison Cloud- 84% poison

(3 Hits irrc)

Lightning Chain- (read on RPGDL that it causes paralysis, but I never once got that to take effect)

(need to look into this)

Ice Daggers- 30% freeze

(3 Hits - Go Nel!)

Albel's short major- 60% chaos

(1 HIT irrc w/o added attack decisions ... though he has the Crimson Scourge for that)

Aura Wall- 30% chaos

( Think it's 26 Hits max irrc)

Peppita's counter X and counter O- 50% chaos

(Counter X - 2 Hits, Counter O - 4 Hits)

Frozen Daggers- 20% freeze

(4 Hits)

Panic Dance- 84% chaos (I'm guessing, like Healing and Magical Dance, at L10 it has a total of 38 "ticks", or chances, of inflicting chaos)

(38 ticks ... not sure how many tics at L1 but it was at L1 when I was testing it and it was enough for 100% chaos on the Lesser Devils anyway)

Land Mines- 10% chaos
(10 Hits @ L10))

Whirling Heat- 20% chaos

(1 Hit ... ? That's pretty bad ... well at least he has Land MINES! if you allow it at L10)

Titan Fist- 50% chaos, 10% paralysis, 1-2% petrification

(1 Hit - can confirm Captain K?)

**

Interpts -

Nel - Best of the cast? Healing, solid chance of instant death via freeze + shatter ;p Poison for freeze immunes? Poison is slighty better than chaos in S03 for HP percentage based damage say 10 - 15 damage compared to chaos' 5. Possibly for paralysis too ... if both freeze and poison fail and paralysis is confirmed she can paralyse and then chip away with damage until the enemy falls.


Maria -

Number one of the damage queens. Can hold enemies immobile with paralyse whilst she blasts them away. If that fails Aiming Device has a pretty decent change of causing a confusion game. Also has Power Up for more damagey goodness.

Peppita -

Chaos Queen. Has three ways of causing the status and all of them are pretty accurate. She can chain into a battle skill combo from counter X or just use counter O for the superior chance of causing confusion whilst being invincible to physical attacks/physical specials (also magic set as specials she can counter Sophia's Blood Scylla and Meteo Swarm in game, granted the entire animation of Meteo Swarm is too long for Counter O's invincibility effect to last but still! ..) ... or she can just use Panic Dance every round keeping them in a constant state of confusion and chipping their health to death. However she almost rivals Nel at being an icy princess being another character with the chance of scoring a quick victory with a freeze and shatter kill w/th Frozen Daggers.  For the status immunes she's another damage queen thanks to the overpowerdness of Power Dance w/th Power Dance > Dream Hammer/Faerie Friend and her short O. Is very good if one takes Healing/Magical Dance as full healing/mp recovery ... but doesn't completely fail without it? Plus I suppose taking it as regen is better than nothing.

Albel - Another chaos whore!

Ok also is another character with a counter attack option. Can chain into battle skills from his counter like Peppita's counter X. Full HP/MP healing with Vampiric Flash ... or is it!? See in game Albel's Vampiric Flash works exactly like Peppita's restorative dances in that it regens HP and MP to Albel in ticks over time except that it's doing damage at the same time too. There's even a delay in the ticks once the actual damage is finished Albel can still receive restoratives afterwards depending on how many enemies he was draining health and where he was on the field it takes time for drain to float across to him and for the full rota of HP/MP filling up to factor in.  Unlike Sophia's Blood Scylla which damages the enemy over time then restores HP/MP to Sophia all in one huge drop. So ... VF could be argued as a drain regen over time

*is shot*

Roger - ... and another!

Adray ... and ... oh wait his confusion rate isn't as good as everyone elses'? Only making the halfway mark is pushing it a bit for goodness. Still a useful strategy if he does get it off though.