Author Topic: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.  (Read 1958 times)

074

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Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1)
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H)
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3)


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4)
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF)
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT)


Middle:

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3)
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT)
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Aika (SoA)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1)
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1)


Winners move on to Losers' Pools 2, Losers are eliminated here.  Voting ends at 11:00 PM CST on Sunday, 9/3/2023
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Random Consonant

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2023, 06:29:17 AM »
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)  - Dragon type does it apparently?
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - WELP.
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3) - Shania of the below average speed going first here?  Yeah don't really think so.  Also don't think her low grade fire magic is good enough to punch through Nailah's mdur on a double even with discounting evasion (which, as a reminder, sits somewhere around ~40% even without assuming her in-game useless authority levels) assuming SH3 attack magic works like I think it does.  Anyways even assuming laguz non-royals are tossed out of the average Nailah is very close to a 1-rounding which means very little likely matters here (under halfshifted she just scrapes a 1RKO and literally nothing matters.)


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) - Trusting Tide here.
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) - A USE FOR ZIODYNE YES.  *ahem* Anyways Kanji nulls Elec so Haishao is stuck using Nereid Cyclone which uh.  Um.  Yeah Ziodyne's not THAT terrible an option.
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - e: Oh so Compress actually is bugged, you'd think that'd be something that would be brought up earlier.


Middle:

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - I think this is right?  Both counter eachother but 31 AS with SCS isn't shaky enough that it fails to double Juno of the 102% speed and turn speed buffs don't change this in my view, and Sublime Heaven does have that looming 39 crit rate to punch through as well as Windsweep to delay Hydro Fang coming out... (also as Pyro pointed out before, Swordmaster does exist as an option with its added +10 crit to push things further in their favor)
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3) - This probably takes a bit since Fafnir does have -some- HP but I'm pretty sure Aht does actually have the resource depth needed for this even without any trap hype.  Sure her physical durability sucks, but it's not like Fafnir's physical is any good and a lot of that is a function of her bad HP, so it's not like Fafnir is anywhere close to an effective 2HKO.
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5) - 4a Edward probaby wins, 4o Edward probably loses, like hell I'm going to give this any further thought.
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - Gonna go with the crowd on this one, I guess.
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1) - So Tony doesn't ever break through Heal assuming Fairy Rings, that's great.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 03:20:17 AM by Random Consonant »

SnowFire

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2023, 07:19:49 AM »
Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1)
ITD is how you beat Chaos, and assuming Leopold can double-up on the ITD crit...
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H)
This is actually close!  Belial deals 1.21 PCHP according to the stat topic with 2x Tank Drops, and Edelgard has 1.19 P Durability according to the stat topic.  So...  this is reasonably close (and if you allow shenanigans with equipping Shields or the like, maaaaybe?).  Edelgard probably wins if she gets a turn, so Belial does need the insta-double KO, and assuming a higher PC level might mess with that.
EDIT: And yes, re Random, if you let these attacks double, then Edelgard is super-splattered, but I can see treating these as more like Combat Arts than basic attacks.
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3)
Sanlitto Bell -> 2x Fire Magic perhaps?  Just has to survive a single Nailah turn and that's gonna be a hell of a lot of weakness-hitting damage (for all that Nailah faces fire magic fairly rarely in game...)
EDIT: Backing up what Random said...  I think Nailah's best argument is that turn 1 KO.  61.2 damage = 1.087 PCHP damage vs. the halfshifted average, and OK's stat topic has Shania at 1.07 PCHP.  Shania is listed as having above-average defense, but only mildly so, so I'm not sure if it's enough to hype Shania surviving here.

Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4)
P4G Kanji even absorbs Lightning, so Haishao has to heal Kanji before ever doing damage.  Humiliating.
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF)
Probably the usual Clarissa victory?  It's been awhile but my recollection is that if her first Turn Steal connects, she generally wins with 2x Sacrifice being a lot of damage.  (Which is...  not reliable in a series of matches where eventually 75% chance luck runs out, but potent in a single match).


Middle:

Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3)
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT)
I think Dalton was robbed last week, but he's getting doubled here and his final attack is going up against good Florina Resistance.
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Aika (SoA)
The good news for Aika is that I don't think Neph 2HKOs (half-shifted averages), and Aika is blazingly fast so she doesn't double either, so a 3HKO is something Aika can look to do healing games against.  Neph doesn't even want a Javelin for counters to the boomerang.  The bad news is that trying to take this slow just eats a Radiant Dawn hahaha you die tier 3 super move eventually.  Some really miserable luck for Aika running into two straight FE characters with good basic physical attacks.

Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1)
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 01:02:53 AM by SnowFire »

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2023, 07:32:29 AM »
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN) - I'll think about this one later.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1) - This one too.
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - Does Edelgard even have a way around the Distortion?


Heavy:

Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) - Does...  Does Haishao have a regular physical, or does P4G Kanji just 100% spoil him instead of 80% spoiling him?
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - Compress doesn't actually ID according to the BMG on GameFAQs, despite the ability tooltip in-game.  Unless I can be shown video evidence contradicting that...  Ness alternates physicals and Lifeup Gamma with the occasional cast of Shield Beta to win, since W8 3HKOs with Crush at best.


Middle:

No Votes


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5) - 2HKO vs. 8HKO.  The only way Edward could win this is if he Sings Berserker to sleep and Harps don't wake them up, which...  I think it doesn't work like that?
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - I don't...  I don't want to think about this one, so I'm just going to guess.  Open to even the slightest interpretations.
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1) - Again, less bad.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 05:38:57 AM by Magic Fanatic »

074

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2023, 08:41:02 AM »
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN) - Looking at this later.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1) - I'll buy the ITD.  See week 1 for my lack of respect for Chaos spamming Curaja.
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - Changed to an abstain in the face of looking up the details.
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3) - Looking at this later.


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) - Miang did possess the dice and dicebot, holy shit.  Even though I don't vote on P4G due to not having played it, immuning the main attack he can use during Mirror Stance means that Ramsus is spoiled a second time this season.
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - God fucking damnit Squaresoft why didn't you fix your god damned tooltips.  Wait you're still fucking them up even to this year considering Octopath 2.


Middle:

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3)
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT) - Bad news for Florina.  I take FE AS against cast average, not as a function of speed, and she doesn't double average.  Worse news for Florina; even if she does double, I see that not as a multihit attack (akin to Confuse or Triple Kick) but as two separate attacks considering how it can be split up in FE, and thus would say that in return for a double, she'd take two Iron Orbs for 75% of her current HP a given turn.


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5) - I vote on FF4o, enough said.
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1) - lolololololol
« Last Edit: August 30, 2023, 08:19:47 PM by 074 »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2023, 04:01:26 PM »
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - Does Edelgard even have a way around the Distortion?

Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - No 4D Pocket doesn't mean No Distortion.  Belial's going to wall here.

Are y'all actually familiar with this dueller? Belial walls Edelgard about as well as she walls Raquel.

I think it's pretty reasonable to vote Belial anyway (if you only consider one Raging Storm use, I imagine that's probably not enough, and that's still my own default view) but still.

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Maybe.

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2023, 04:13:03 PM »
Godlike:
Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN) - Kneejerk. I have to imagine that there's a typing that gives Arc a way to mitigate most of Magus' damage. Maybe something like Rock typing (halves fire/phys)?
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H) - Unless you let Edie repeatedly activate Raging Storm, I have no idea how she gets through Distortion spamming. If you do, she wins if she gets a turn, but it looks she might have issues doing that too (see Snowfire).
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3) - Magic's probably right IF you see Shania going first. The issue is...the argument for Shania going first is pretty weak. She can't start off in a transformed state, meaning her opening speed is below average (98%). Under most common evaluations, Naliah has both a) Better raw Speed (she's either average OR above average in FE stats) and b) Better move speed. And if Naliah goes first, her first hit is going to rip off a chuck of health - possibly a ORKO depending on the average, so she absolutely needs to go first to have an argument.


Heavy:
Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) - Huh. Alexia falls into the right side of the damage average (low 2HKO) against someone who has exactly average defenses. And since Maya is only listed as "Average" Speed in the stat topic, that's not fast enough to actually double Alexia. So she goes first, 2x Revolver Sweep and collects victory, completely bypassing Calamity Jane range. Who woulda thunk?
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) - LMAO. Even if you don't give Kanji Ziodyne for whatever reason, he likely still outslugs because he immunes Electric Arm counters.
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF) - Pretty standard Clarissa win, I think? Double Rob Turn into Double Sac means Guv has no way to get a turn to actually heal inbetween. If Rob Turn misses though, she's in deep. Two 75% chances means there is a 43.75% chance for it to not happen, so like Snowfire noted, not reliable in a series of matches, but passable in an individual case.
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - EDIT: Confirmed in Chat. Compress doesn't actually inflict ID. So yeah, Ness turtles up and wins a slow fight. W8 can't really break past the stalling without ID - Work might not be physical, but using it drains his HP even faster. Ness is going to cast Shield to soften counters and then just very slowly chip W8 out. His resources are massive if he isn't blowing it on Rocking Omega.


Middle:
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3) - So Aht has this move called "Super Heal". Fafnir wins against duelers who can't put out enough damage in time. Healing essentially buys Aht that time. Unless you think she's 2HKO'd (and tbf, her durability in the stat topic is pretty trashy), there's no way she loses this. If you do, this gets more interesting, but Aht's has other advantages going into this (her speed and trap damage for starters) that likely carries
Nephenee (FE10)vs. Aika (SoA) - Uh yeah, this is a case of a Tier 3 Super move coming to the rescue. Neph might even tech to a Killer weapon to put the crit pressure on.


Light:
Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5) - Oh Super~?
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - So both kind of suck BUT Lelei can get armor that gives her elemental resistances. Without too much digging, I have to imagine that gives her the advantage
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1) - This is a PUNY tier level slapfight. Going to just copy Random cause I am not thinking about this.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2023, 10:43:47 PM by Tide »
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Random Consonant

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2023, 04:55:24 PM »
Unless both Tank Drop and Agony Effect somehow became MT when I wasn't looking I'm not sure why y'all are even bothering to discuss this.  Unless you want to argue it's like 3H siege magic and shouldn't double anyways but I don't know if I can bring myself to care when it's not like there's any way you can say for sure.

Come to think of it I'm not even sure if a single use of Raging Storm one-shots the distortion...
« Last Edit: August 28, 2023, 05:09:54 PM by Random Consonant »

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2023, 02:00:33 AM »
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1): ITD critical hits will do the job.
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H): Double Tank Drops? Edelgard's speed with Aymr was good but not good enough?
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3): Just barely doesn't KO, but Savage is turn 4?


Heavy: Blonde supremacy )Ness needs hairdye)

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF): Sure I'll follow Tide.
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4)
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF): One Rob Turn is enough to use 2 Sacrifices in a row. (Two Rob Turns is feasible for 3 Sacrifices in a row).
Guv wants to use his Initiative Spear Damage here! But I don't think the at best ~10% PCHP damage is going to effect Sacrifice enough.

Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT): No ID?


Middle: Fire Emblem is the GOAT

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H): Slice n Dice (I assume Byleth is a Swordmaster with all the bonuses that entails)
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3)
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT)
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Aika (SoA)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1): Healing!
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1): Healing?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 04:16:25 AM by Pyro »

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2023, 03:42:10 AM »
Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5)  I don't recall if Berserker has any sort of Charm resistance.  Charm harp does horrible things here.

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2023, 12:03:00 AM »
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)- Unless there's some math this seems likely.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1)- Probably?  Leopold is decently durable and Chaos isn't all that damaging, so decent time to fish for the crits.
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H)- I think Edie would need 2 Raging Storms here and I don't... *think* I give them to her.
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3)- trusting Random's math


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF)
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4)
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF)
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT)


Middle:

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H)
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3)
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT)
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Aika (SoA)


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5)
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1)
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1)
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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2023, 01:38:14 AM »
Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN)- Yeah, Dragon plate resists most of the relevant damage and Arceus just alternates Judgment and Recover for a stable win.
Sir Leopold (DQ8) vs. Chaos (FF1)- I can respect the ITD
Belial (WA4) vs. Edelgard (FE3H)- Damn, I think I'd let Tank Drop double against Edie...
Nailah (FE10) vs. Shania (SH3)- Nailah is cracked


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) - sure, burst past that Calamity Jane limit
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) - Hah.
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF) - Normal Clarissa match.
Ness (EB) vs. Worker 8 (FFT) - No ID? This match was such a roller coaster of emotions. I genuinely thought that rolling HP counter was going to swing this match.


Middle:

Juno (SN) vs. Byleth (FE3H) - Meant to math this out sooner. This is a shockingly close match. Byleth has very average stats overall and the fact that both games are giving counters is helping Juno more than Byleth. I think for Byleth to win, you have to see them as getting initiative turn from some kind of range superiority. In general, SN's ACT stat functions as both turn-based speed and influences movement range, so Juno being slightly above average means I would definitely see her as going first. BUT, if Byleth were to go first and you see their AS as being high enough over Juno's for Byleth to double, then Juno is forced to use her one shot of Healing and then Byleth just does it two more times and wins. However, if you see it as Juno going first, she opens with Bold Move, buffing her ATK and ACT, meaning she definitely isn't getting doubled by Byleth's already shaky claim to doubling, and in fact Byleth might be taking double counter attacks from Juno. Byleth can then switch to healing or draining, but by that point it's too late. Juno heals up on her second turn and then fires off her OHKO Hydro Fang special on her third turn (if you somehow use a really harsh damage average for SN, keep in mind that SN characters counterattack heals too, so no matter what Byleth does, Juno is getting an extra swing in before dropping her big damage, already buffed by Bold Move). I suppose Byleth can use Windsweep to stop Juno's counter, but that damage is so low it's just delaying the inevitable at that point, since she can just instantly use Hydro Fang again.
Aht (RH) vs. Fafnir (WA3) - I'm pretty lenient on traps for Aht and apparently she wins this without even needing them?
Florina (FE7) vs. Dalton (CT) - sure.
Nephenee (FE10) vs. Aika (SoA) - another problem slugger who can't be solved with Swirlmarang? Why would you do this to my poor Aika?


Light:

Edward (FF4) vs. Berserker (FF5)
Peppor (CC) vs. Lelei (S5) - Peppor still doesn't have a stat topic entry, right?
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1) - Alas poor Tony.
Boco (FFT) vs. Mogu (BoF1) - Uh... I guess?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 01:56:36 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

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Re: RPGVO 2023 Round 3, Losers' Pools 1: BERSERKER CRUSH PUNY HARPS.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2023, 07:16:20 AM »
Match Results:

Godlike:

Magus (CT) vs. Arceus (PKMN) ||||
Sir Leopold (DQ8) ||||| vs. Chaos (FF1)
Belial (WA4) ||||||| vs. Edelgard (FE3H)
Nailah (FE10) |||||| vs. Shania (SH3)


Heavy:

Maya Schrodinger (WA3) vs. Alexia Lynn Elesius (WAXF) ||||||
Haishao (XG) vs. Kanji (P4) ||||||||
Guv(DQ8) (No Call Team) vs. Clarissa Arwin (WAXF) |||||
Ness (EB) ||||||| vs. Worker 8 (FFT)


Middle:

Juno (SN) | vs. Byleth (FE3H) |||
Aht (RH) |||||| vs. Fafnir (WA3)
Florina (FE7) ||||| vs. Dalton (CT) |
Nephenee (FE10) ||||| vs. Aika (SoA)


Light:

Edward (FF4) |||||| vs. Berserker (FF5) ||
Peppor (CC) |||| vs. Lelei (S5) |
Tony (WAXF) vs. Jelanda (VP1) ||||||
Boco (FFT) |||||| vs. Mogu (BoF1)

Loser have been eliminated.  Winners will move onto Losers' Pools 2 in Round 5.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.