Futurama 2023 Week 4

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4)

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Minorio Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V)
Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Ba'Thraz (Chained Echoes)

Light

Amalia (Chained Echoes) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage)
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage)


Data Mine

Bravely Default II
Chained Echoes
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless
Fire Emblem Engage
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree
Octopath Traveler II
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom
This Way Madness Lies
Triangle Strategy

[Cmdr_King]

As things stand, next round will have a yea or nay vote on Persona 1 and Persona 5.  So if there's anything not on the ranked list you've played but I don't have you listed, poke me here or on discord.  And of course if any of these games have 9+ players it would go up for rankings as well, but that's uhhh unlikely.

[074]

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - I don't allow Aeons as per the party substitution proxy clause, and all of Heat's parts immune Holy.  (Before you say that Expel is just gravity, Xanadu exists).  Beatdowns ensue after several stat breaks, possibly sooner if Freeze lands off of Gelid Torrent.
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4) - From everything I'm seeing in the topics, yeah.  Splortched by tanks.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) - Telele doesn't hit SaGa gun damage?  Ouch.


Middle

Minoriko Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V) - Punisher gets a taste of her own medicine.  Minoriko immunes average magic damage before buffing, and has a magic damage adjustment mod of -0.922 PCHP after *one* use of Owotoshi Harvester.  Considering Mana Oracle inflicts its damage over five hits, Minoriko has little to fear here.  And she goes first.  There is no universe in which the popoto makes it out alive against the potato harvest goddess.


Data Mine

Bravely Default II - Have started, need to play more of
Chained Echoes - Have not played
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance - Have not played
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny - Have not played
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless - Need to play
Fire Emblem Engage - Have not played
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree - Cleared, Stat Topiced.
Octopath Traveler II - Played, need to clear.
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess - Have not played
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom - Have not played
This Way Madness Lies - Have not played
Triangle Strategy - Played

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4)- I'll have ot remember to double check these in case math says otherwise.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV)- Mei-ling's got some ITD and Light Sword should take some of the strain off her resources if necessary.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)- no vote

Middle

Minorio Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V)- No vote
Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Ba'Thraz (Chained Echoes)- No vote

Light

Amalia (Chained Echoes) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage)- No vote
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage)- huh.  This.  Seems right?  Zelkov is basically better Heather I think but not better in ways that matter here as far as I can tell.


Data Mine

Bravely Default II
Chained Echoes
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance- Played
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny- Played
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless
Fire Emblem Engage- Played
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree
Octopath Traveler II
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess- Played
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom
This Way Madness Lies- Played
Triangle Strategy

[DjinnAndTonic]

Doing the easy ones first during my work break...

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - Aeon Yuna handles this on turn one, Aeonless Yuna explodes. But I allow Anima, so no problem.
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4)

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) - Bounded Shot and Lightsword should do the trick.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Minoriko Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V)
Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Ba'Thraz (Chained Echoes) - Yeah, I guess Dedue 2 rounds

Light

Amalia (Chained Echoes) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage) - Amalia is so bad, but I wanted this to be a closer match.
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage)


Data Mine

Bravely Default II - Purchased! I'll get to it eventually
Chained Echoes - Completed
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance - Completed
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny - Completed
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless - Completed
Fire Emblem Engage - Completed
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree - Haven't played, but I'm interested
Octopath Traveler II - About half way through the C2s, my current in-progress game
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess - Completed
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom - Completed
This Way Madness Lies - Completed
Triangle Strategy - Only finished one route, but seems good enough?

I would say we should rank new Tales and Star Ocean, but honestly those ARPGs have gotten so complex that trying to properly stat topic them is a fool's errand...

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - At first, I thought this'd be a really complicated match, since AoE isn't easy to come by in FFX and what Yuna's Aeons have in that regard is saddled with bad recharge times. But no, Heat's durability is actually barely above PC HP, she just phones Anima and makes him die before anything happens.
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4) - Belial is DANGEROUSLY close to OHKOing Goddess with a Tank Drop. She -really- doesn't have to.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) - Mei-ling's Bounded Shot crits ignore defense and she has an initiative 2HKO as is. Worst part: even if you respect Telele more than I do, it doesn't hit the stats guns use for their damage, so Kyra's really hoping for insane luck on Bindwa. Not really happening.

[Random Consonant]

Godlike

Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4) - Endgame FF6 bosses surviving double Tank Drop is really not something I see happening ever.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV) - Think so.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Minoriko Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V) - You don't really beat Minoriko with mdef-subject magic attacks unless you're really good at it.  Shaman... is not really good at it.

Light

Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage) - Zelkov 4HKOs even after factoring in the added damage from poison and probably doesn't double (he's +4.6 AS against the average that factors smash weapons, Mediator is above average and, as far as my own views are concerned, is probably one of the generics that would want to default to sprint shoes instead of a bracer or magic bracer), so he runs into the same problems as Heather does here.

Data Mine

Bravely Default II - Played
Chained Echoes - Not played
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance - Played
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny - Not played
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless - Played
Fire Emblem Engage - Played
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree - Played
Octopath Traveler II - Played
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess - Not played
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom - Not played
This Way Madness Lies - Played
Triangle Strategy - Played

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4): Belial 2HKOs with Tank Drop, but Goddess is probably something like 150% speed so doesn't get instant doubled and OHKOs. So... Belial puts up distortion instead? Yeah, that probably stops everything Goddess does, her MT focuses so at best the barrier existing should make it do half damage = not OHKO. And Belial should 3-2. Charm's deadly but not turn 1.

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV): Kyra's only argument requires giving Telele a judgement call and Telele does not deserve judgement calls. (Even with that judgement call Mei-ling might still win.)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy): Close. Take Cover gives Anna a definite shot, since it blocks most of what Cthulhu does. The problem is that Cthulhu can still apply Hyper Plague on his first hyper turn, and this kills Anna around turn 5 (opening Torment + four turns of poison + Tentacles defend Tentacles again). Anna... can't really kill Cthulhu before then while keeping regen up. Unstoppable is a major issue since she can't just go for a blitz or Cthulhu will murder her with something (he keeps the fourth move as damage, maybe Berserk), she needs to Take Cover again on the turn she kills him, so it takes too long to get there.

Middle

Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Ba'Thraz (Chained Echoes): Goes first and 2HKOs? Ba'thraz was impressive in earlier matches but here he just doesn't get enough time.

Light

Amalia (Chained Echoes) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage): Ivy 2HKOs and counters, Amalia... best bet is to use Aura to turn that into a 3HKO, though Ivy's class skill means she'll still unreliably 2HKO making a slow win risky. Like... even with that, her only hope is to use her terrible MT physical to avoid counters and she'll still lose when Grasping Void kicks in after a turn she stops to heal.
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage): Probably fast enough to avoid doubles, in particular I was also thinking about the point that Mediator is probably faster than the stat topic implies due to Sprint Shoes being their obvious default accessory. Match entirely hinges on that, Mediator wins on turn 3 and Zelkov is clearly not 2HKOing but equally clearly is at least 4HKOing.

On reflection Mediator is an extremely good Light (if they belong there at all), "wins on turn 3 with above average speed and fine durability and incredibly good equipment options" (and is even better against mages due to Solution) is quite the combo there.


Data Mine

Bolding the ones I've played

Bravely Default II
Chained Echoes
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless
Fire Emblem Engage
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree
Octopath Traveler II
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom
This Way Madness Lies
Triangle Strategy

[SnowFire]

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)
I'll just note since it came up a bit ago that, while DL "interps" that are sometimes in-game nerfs (e.g. FFX characters all starting at 0 Overdrive) are necessary...  Vritra probably does win this if given the arms on turn 1?  Saying they start pre-dead is always a tad arbitrary, even if it makes Heat a more reasonable Godlike rather than Bluelike.
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4)
I'm not so certain about seeing Tank Drop as getting around Love Token counters, but not inclined to give Goddess judgment calls.

Light

Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage)
Chickens.

Data Mine

Bravely Default II
Chained Echoes - Own, will probably play some day.
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless
Fire Emblem Engage
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree
Octopath Traveler II - Own, need to start.
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom
This Way Madness Lies - Own, need to start.
Triangle Strategy - Technically unfinished, but I'm deep enough in to consider myself votable on it.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)
I'll just note since it came up a bit ago that, while DL "interps" that are sometimes in-game nerfs (e.g. FFX characters all starting at 0 Overdrive) are necessary...  Vritra probably does win this if given the arms on turn 1?  Saying they start pre-dead is always a tad arbitrary, even if it makes Heat a more reasonable Godlike rather than Bluelike.

Definitely not convinced this is true. Yuna still goes first and if I look at the Magus Sisters vs. Vritra I'm definitely favouring the former, he just does not have the offence to overwhelm them and sooner or later they'll punch through his defensive game.

But more generally I do agree that it's a bit of a "compromise" interp about whether support is allowed in fights or not - my general view is "no unless the support is summoned as part of gameplay". If you want to argue it would be more true to in-game to just allow the tentacles from the battle start, that's fair, but I'd point out it's also more true to in-game for Heat to sit around not resummoning them for a few turns after you kill them.


Re Tank Drop and Love Token, while I could potentially see going either way on that one, I don't think it matters? It only kicks in 1/3 of the time as a counter to physicals, so it shouldn't kick in after one Tank Drop, and if Belial needs more than two to win she'll have bigger problems (but nobody seems to consider Goddess to have enough pdur for that, certainly not me). I suppose you could scale it up to account for the fact that one Belial attack represents multiple PCs attacking Goddess in-game, but the combination of that and "works on Tank Drop" (when it doesn't work on physical swordtechs, tools, or blitzes) seems highly suspect.

[Pyro]

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga) vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4)

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier) vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Minorio Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2) vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V)
Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses) vs Ba'Thraz (Chained Echoes)[/b]: 2HKOs and goes first?

Light

Amalia (Chained Echoes) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage)
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage)


Data Mine

Bravely Default II
Chained Echoes
Octopath Traveler II
This Way Madness Lies
Triangle Strategy

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

Heat (Digital Devil Saga)- i vs Yuna (Final Fantasy X)- iiiii
Goddess (Final Fantasy VI) vs Belial (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiiiii

Heavy

Mei-ling (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiiii vs Kyra Tierney (Phantasy Star IV)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas)- iii vs Anna Pascal (Triangle Strategy)

Middle

Minorio Aki (Labyrinth of Touhou 2)- ii vs Divine Punisher Shaman (Etrian Odyssey V)
Dedue Molinaro (Fire Emblem Three Houses)- iii vs Ba'Thraz (Chained Echoes)

Light

Amalia (Chained Echoes) vs Ivy (Fire Emblem Engage)- ii
Mediator (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiii vs Zelkov (Fire Emblem Engage)


Data Mine

Bravely Default II (random, elf, Snowfire, Pyro, )
Chained Echoes (djinn, elf, Pyro, )
Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance (CK, djinn, random, )
Disgaea 6: Defiance of Destiny (CK, djinn, )
Disgaea 7: Vows of the Virtueless (djinn, random, )
Fire Emblem Engage (CK, random, elf, Snowfire, )
Labyrinth of Touhou: Gensokyo and the Heaven-Piercing Tree (Nama, random, )
Octopath Traveler II (Nama, djinn, random, elf, Pyro, )
Rhapsody II: Ballad of the Little Princess (CK, djinn, )
Rhapsody III: Memories of Marl Kingdom (djinn, )
This Way Madness Lies (CK, djinn, random, elf, Pyro, )
Triangle Strategy (Nama, djinn, random, elf, Snowfire, Pyro, )