Author Topic: Proving Grounds Heavy/Godlike: Can't touch this.  (Read 242 times)

SnowFire

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Proving Grounds Heavy/Godlike: Can't touch this.
« on: November 04, 2024, 02:50:49 AM »
Throwing some characters from recent-ish stat topics at some Heavies, some borderliners, and some Godlikes.  There are a number of contestants thrown (Throne?) up here largely because I don't expect that most people will be able to vote on all of them.  I've thrown in the usual XX vs. if people want to sub in one from the games I know less of a la Labyrinth of Touhou, Disgaea 5, etc.

Will probably make a Light & Middle follow-up, but figure just one of these is plenty for now.

* Alear & Marth (Fire Emblem Engage) - They have 67% evade when using their best damage, and can go to 87% evade if desired during their 4 turns of Engage!  Not amazing damage for this division, but it doesn't need to be if their opponent has so much trouble getting through..
* Oracle (Bravely Default II) - Has goofy spoiling games with Reflect vs. mages and Elemental Supplement vs. physical fighters, although they take a speed hit to get to full elemental absorption due to BDII preferring mostly-naked fighters.
* Throne (Octopath Traveler II) - Has a perfect evade game while building up BP, although she doesn't like that if she stalls too long her buffs expire. 
* Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) - Blows most targets up on turn 2 with initiative, and pretty good at surviving turn 1.


Alear & Marth (FE Engage) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
Alear & Marth vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
Alear & Marth vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Alear & Marth vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)

Alear & Marth vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
Alear & Marth vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Alear & Marth vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Alear & Marth vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

Alear & Marth vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Alear & Marth vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Alear & Marth vs. Chie (Persona 4)
Alear & Marth vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)

-

Oracle (Bravely Default II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
Oracle vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
Oracle vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Oracle vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)

Oracle vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
Oracle vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Oracle vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Oracle vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

Oracle vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Oracle vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Oracle vs. Chie (Persona 4)
Oracle vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)

-

Throne (Octopath Traveller II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
Throne vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
Throne vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Throne vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)

Throne vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
Throne vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Throne vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Throne vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

Throne vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Throne vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Throne vs. Chie (Persona 4)
Throne vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)

-

Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
Cthulhu vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
Cthulhu vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Cthulhu vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)

Cthulhu vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
Cthulhu vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Cthulhu vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Cthulhu vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

Cthulhu vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Cthulhu vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Cthulhu vs. Chie (Persona 4)
Cthulhu vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)



XX vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
XX vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
XX vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
XX vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)

XX vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
XX vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
XX vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
XX vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

XX vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
XX vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
XX vs. Chie (Persona 4)
XX vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy/Godlike: Can't touch this.
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2024, 02:13:12 PM »
Oracle (Bravely Default II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3) - I don't really see how Oracle gets out of the being stuck on the forever loop of recasting Elemental Supplement. Emelious constantly doubleturns after Oracle's first turn and there's just not much they can do to escape this.
Oracle vs. Rudo Marco (Brigandine LoR) - Survive a Rudo turn, ES, do whatever the hell they want until Rudo dies.
Oracle vs. Lenneth Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile 1) - I'm never respecting BD2 status that isn't under the influence of Guaranteed Results, and that feels like the shot Oracle has. They go last if they go for the elemental spoiling setup and Lenneth just OHKOs that.
Oracle vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII) - Well, this boils down to "do I see Elemental Supplement getting owned by icy waves?". And the answer to this is uh i dunno.

Rest later, this is a headache.

Oracle vs. Celes Chere (Final Fantasy 6) - Oracle vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Oracle vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Oracle vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

Oracle vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Oracle vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Oracle vs. Chie Satonaka (Persona 4)
Oracle vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)
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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy/Godlike: Can't touch this.
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2024, 12:32:19 AM »
Alear & Marth (FE Engage) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3) - Not completely sure since Emelious misses the OHKO and I have no respect for G3 techs against comprehensive evasion, but Alear doesn't double and Emelious does have some measure of durability and evasion of his own, and I'm not certain Lodestar Rush helps enough.  Maybe if Alear can get two off in time  e: going with this, G3 evasion is still less comprensive so I'm not using Engage specials/Surge as justification to claim that this is actually free but I'm not convinced this actually matters given Emelious's speed.
Alear & Marth vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR) - Clean Military Rule clears the coinflip threshhold and Rudo goes first.
Alear & Marth vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1) - e: Lenneth's that accurate?  well ok then.
Alear & Marth vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6) - Should survive Lodestar Rush, uses Imp.
Alear & Marth vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5) - Pick a status and pray.
Alear & Marth vs. Neclord (Suikodens) - I think Neclord2 goes first and just IDs?  I don't remember Neclord1 at all.  Maybe if I did I'd vote on that form instead.
Alear & Marth vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X) - Good news for Alear is that I see Lodestar Rush bypassing E&C.  Bad news is uh it doesn't OHKO to me so Attack Reels happens.
Alear & Marth vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3) - e: right, that detail.
Alear & Marth vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8) - Eph is accurate and goes first but doesn't OHKO or one-round.  I think Alear can Lodestar Rush + rapier their way out from there?  Engage specials being ITE and uncounterable is definitely a boon here, as is Alear having +4 AS on Eph.
Alear & Marth vs. Chie (Persona 4) - I can't really muster that much respect for Auto-Sukukaja from Miori Shirts these days but even if I could, Lodestar Rush just means Chie's gameplan doesn't really work.
Alear & Marth vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord) - Given Alain's durablity, I have to think that eventually, Spinning Edge will land.

Oracle (Bravely Default II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3) - Should be faster and durable enough to survive a brave blitz.  Elemental Supplement won't help in that case.
Oracle vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR) - Unlike here, where it definitely makes Clean Military Rule survivable.  I think that's enough?
Oracle vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1) - lol nvm Mandatory Wind Talisman God for Icefire setup means Oracle goes first.
Oracle vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6) - Ah yes Oracle basic physicals will definitely outslug.  Imp makes everything moot, of course.
Oracle vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Oracle vs. Neclord (Suikodens) - Oracle looks like they can block ID at a slight speed hit (probably outspeeds Neclord anyways) but the fire nulling means Neclord may well survive a brave blitz anyways.  Abstain.
Oracle vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X) - lol nvm TKO exists
Oracle vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3) - Seems like a brave blitz barely does the job and Oracle be faster.
Oracle vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8) - I don't think Eph doubles with anything that would one-round so Elemental Supplement with the absorb setup is go.
Oracle vs. Chie (Persona 4) - Chie *also* gets owned forever by Elemental Supplement absorb setup.
Oracle vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord) - Oracle would need to not go for the absorb setup to beat out Alain's initiative and he's far out of Oracle's ability to outslug.

Throne (Octopath Traveller II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3) - Agree that Throne wins in 3 turns (I use the 2-turn average but see Emelious as less durable) but I don't credit 8PT2 speed as mattering so his doubleturns come too fast for her to get those.
Throne vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR) - That said I'm going to credit it more than anything pertaining to Brig initiative.
Throne vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1) - Too much offense.
Throne vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
Throne vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Throne vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Throne vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X) - Definitely on team FFX Osmose not mattering for MP kills.
Throne vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Throne vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8) - Yep.
Throne vs. Chie (Persona 4) - Veil of Darkness means this is probably right on average.  Evasion could mess things up but given Chie would need Power Charge to outrace AR this would only really matter if I respected P4 turnspeed any more than 8PT2 turnspeed and, well, I don't.
Throne vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord) - Alain does a bit more than "almost" kill Throne to me.  Not that this matters.

Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3) - Sounds like this is correct from Elf's analysis
Cthulhu vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR) - The superior overlord, clearly.
Cthulhu vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Cthulhu vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6) - Impthulhu, the This Way Madness Lies boss that no one talks about.
Cthulhu vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Cthulhu vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Cthulhu vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)
Cthulhu vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3) - I guess the argument for sleep immunity is stun+vuln combo?  Meh, close enough I guess.
Cthulhu vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Cthulhu vs. Chie (Persona 4) - I don't... think PC God Hand OHKOs to me unless Cthulhu inflicts insanity... but he can do that with Terrify and not have to worry about evade screwing things up later, I think?  Perhaps if didn't side-eye Miori Shirt evade hype.
Cthulhu vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 02:12:47 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy/Godlike: Can't touch this.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2024, 06:08:50 AM »
Alear & Marth (FE Engage) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3): The fact that Engage itself has ITE physical techs doesn't leave me with much respect for Alear dodgetanking here.
Alear & Marth vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR): Clean Military Rule is just accurate enough for this.
Alear & Marth vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1): Lenneth will usually have landed the hits she needs by turn 2, I think, and she wins the speed tiebreak.
Alear & Marth vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII): Leo doesn't really want to trigger counters here, so I guess Scream + Cold Breath it is? I would guess Alear kills on turn 3, which is turn 4 thanks to a Scream landing... so this comes down to whether Cold Breath is ITE in this case. And I dunno. Abstain for now.

Alear & Marth vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6): Vanish.
Alear & Marth vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5): Time Slip should land before Alear kills, and at that point it's Hurricane -> poke.
Alear & Marth vs. Neclord (Suikodens): Doubt I see anything Neclord has ignoring evasion, and certainly not his ID move which I have never once seen in all my S2 playthroughs. (I probably just vote on S1.)
Alear & Marth vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X): Don't try to beat Wakka with evasion.

Alear & Marth vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3): Huh yeah, Lodestar Rush manages a OHKO. Wind of Sleep runs into evasion in S3.
Alear & Marth vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8): Lodestar Rush is a nice trump card in this evade-off, though Eph's WTA does make things interesting. I think he'd win it if not for Rapier hitting weakness AND giving an evade boost.
Alear & Marth vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord): Once again Rapier Lodestar Rush is a heck of a trump card, but... yeah Alain is just too durable.

-

So this is a mea culpa, but I noticed while playing around with votes here that Oracle totally has an Icefire Shield setup which retains above average speed (Wind Talisman instead of Sands of Time, they don't even lose magic because of the shield). That's important!

Oracle (Bravely Default II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3): Yeah Oracle's only hope is to braveblitz, since Emelious does 90% turn 1 and Elemental Supplement won't stop Emelious's magic from finishing the job. And Emelious is durable enough to survive that, I think, even if his evade isn't seen as doing anything against Triplara (and I'm not sure about that call).
Oracle vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR): Elemental Supplement reduces Rudo to a turn 3 win, and Oracle has a 4-3. So that's six uses of Triplara and that barely kills Rudo (1.51 damage against 1.49 mdur). Alternatively, Oracle could just tank Clean Military Rule and go for element absorption from there.
Oracle vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)[/b]: See opening comment. Agree that Lenneth would win this in the stat topic as presented.
Oracle vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII): Intimidating Scream kinda ruins Oracle here I think. Oracle's best bet is to null ice and use Elemental Supplement but Scream lets Leopold time out the clock. Oracle probably needs 9 Triplara casts and that's too much time.

Oracle vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6): Oracle can ward off status with Reflect but the fact that it only lasts two turns is devastating. Oracle's other turns can be spent on Elemental Impairment, praying that this lands and then at least they have SOME damage. Meanwhile Celes probably just hits Oracle with a Man Eater over and over and honestly yeah that surely kills before Oracle can successfully land a BD2 status that then allows them to like 9HKO.
Oracle vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5): Some sort of status hell or other.
Oracle vs. Neclord (Suikodens): Decently durable, probably close to 4PCHP against fire/ice/lightning magic. That's too much time since he has both damage types and Oracle can't really spoil both at once.
Oracle vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X): Wakka can tank an Oracle turn and then uses Sleep Buster or Silence Buster, either is devastating. Oracle... can block both, but at a pretty severe cost (24% damage cut). So Oracle is now 8HKOing. That's still not awful since y'know, kills on turn 5 = Wakka only gets 3 turns. ... Except Drain exists, and Oracle is weirdly unable to handle that. Oh and there's also the TKO, I forgot that.

Oracle vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3): Go first and one-round.
Oracle vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8): See Lenneth.
Oracle vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord): Elemental Supplement shutdown but... Alain doesn't need to deal damage to heal himself with Lean Edge, so Oracle can't make headway and eventually runs out of MP, probably.

-

I'm taking Octopath speed at half effect, I think. I average the four damage averages so the kill point is 7070. Throne does 11560 with Aebar if she uses it while her buffs are active. I'm inclined to ignore the damage cap because it doesn't matter for most of the game and you have an "ignore damage cap" passive by the time it does.

Throne (Octopath Traveller II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3): Emelious has a 5-4 to me. Throne can tie him up with Veil of Darkness (his magic kinda sucks) until he doubleturns and wins. So she gets three turns, plus her latent. Armour Corrosive into Aebar is 2.45 PCHP and that's a dead Emolicious.
Throne vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR): Same strategy as above works.
Throne vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1): Veil of Darkness only makes one attack of Lenneth's string miss, and that's not good enough. Lenneth just OHKOs even still. Throne can buy a turn by ALSO using Shackle with her latent turn (either alone isn't enough). That's not enough time.
Throne vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII): Once again if she gets to turn 3 she wins, and Veil lets her do that... probably? I suppose Leo could try breath + scream but that frees up her turn 2 for HP Thief. Leo can get off three Cold Breaths this way though, and that does kill... maybe? Throne's HP Thief heals her for 24%, and Cold Breath if it strikes MDef does 46%... yeah the healing's not enough.

Throne vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6): Some horrible status or other.
Throne vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5): Again.
Throne vs. Neclord (Suikodens): Neclord only 3HKOs with magic so Veil into Shackle/Aebar does its thing.
Throne vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X): Veil stops the status hell. Wakka can still use magic and should win if you let Osmose kill MP but I don't think I do that these days.

Throne vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3): Wind of Sleep into Hellfire does its thing. Throne MDef might be bad enough for turn 1 Funeral Wind, too.
Throne vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8): Veil probably misses on the second attempt, but it's not like one hit is enough to win.
Throne vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord): Alain almost kills Throne out of the gate, and Veil just makes one of his hits miss, which isn't enough. So we don't get to watch Alain facetank Aebar.

-

Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves Christmas) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3): Emelious gets two turns immediately after Cthulhu's first, allowing him to kill... he'd die to Shadow Strike so he uses Shadow Wave (look at these goth boys...), the combination of that and Spirit Wail barely kills thanks to the Insane damage boost. Cthulhu gets a desperate turn but physicals are out and Torment is out since it can't kill, so the best he can do is Fireball which isn't enough.
Cthulhu vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR): Rudo can't even OHKO so Cthulhu gets three turns minimum and that's crazy levels of damage (Dark Blast -> Torment -> Shadow Strike).
Cthulhu vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1): Tank a turn with Unstoppable, blow her up with Shadow Strike.
Cthulhu vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII): Leo kills on turn 2, so Cthulhu's best bet is Dark Blast -> Torment -> Shadow Strike once again. That's just over 2PCHP, specifically 2.03. What do I think Leo's HP is? If I arbitrarily set Marcello at 1.5, then Leo is 2.05. But he takes 5% extra from physicals, so maybe that's enough? Let's go with that. Super close.

Cthulhu vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6): No transformation-like status in CSC.
Cthulhu vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5): See above.
Cthulhu vs. Neclord (Suikodens): Neclord doesn't resist dark.
Cthulhu vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X): Cthulhu has too many holes in his statusblocking. A rare fight where Triple Foul is decisive; neither blind nor silence alone would win the fight for Wakka (and I do see Cthulhu immune to sleep) but the combination does.

Cthulhu vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3): Oh yeah I just said I see Cthulhu blocking sleep, didn't I.
Cthulhu vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8): Cthulhu goes for Dark Blast into Shadow Strike, which does barely kill Ephraim... if both hits land. Odds are one misses. And... Cthulhu doesn't get any other chances, thanks to insane the javelin counter + Siegmund kills. So yeah never mind that's a bad opener. Cthulhu can go for terrify instead (which won't miss) but he still needs to land two more attacks after that, and again odds are one will miss.
Cthulhu vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord): Too durable.

Cthulhu 5-6 (he's probably real good to anyone who sees his status immunity as more perfect than I do)
Throné 5-6 (definitely better than I expected, the turn 3 damage is crazy)
Oracle 4-7 (as cool as the shutdown game is on paper it tends not to work if the opponent has good durability against elemental magic and ANY sort of backup damage, and that's lots of folks).
Alear & Marth 3-7 (solid FE dodgetank dueller, but those tend more toward high Heavy)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 02:06:25 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy/Godlike: Can't touch this.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2024, 06:18:51 PM »
Alear & Marth (FE Engage) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
While I'm not totally down for unevadable hype here and Alear is probably fast enough not to get doubled (if you see that as true they instantly lose), this does seem like an uphill fight in general.
Alear & Marth vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
Alear would like to open with the Rapier out to dissuade Clean Military Rule, but with Rudo's high defense it's not clear it really does any significant damage even if he gets in 6 pokes before Lodestar Rushing.  So yeah, Alear has to suck it up and use a Silver Sword the Wille Glanz and then very slightly loses the coinflip.
Alear & Marth vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Alear in their element here.
Alear & Marth vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)
Interp split on if Cold Breath is ITE or not, yeah.
I will say that as a tiebreak, Alear can sometimes win this even if it is seen as ITE.  If Alear dodges the first Intimidating Scream, then they take 57% HP loss from Cold Breath, but will gain ~20% of their HP back from Divine Speed's healing in round 2.  That means that the next Cold Breath will ram Alear into Unyielding territory and Alear will get a big burst of health.
Of course, Leo can sometimes win even if Cold Breath is out by just sucking it up and going for Desperate Attack OHKO attempts, since he does have the HP to survive for at least 2 attempts into the counters, maybe even 3.

Alear & Marth vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
ITE vs. super, super evade in Vanish.  Eh, Celes has other ways to win even if Vanish hype is ignored.  (But given that the Vallites in Fates don't seem to have any bonus to evasion, it seems being hard to see is considered overrated by FE!)
Alear & Marth vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Going against the crowd here.  Gilgy's HP is guesstimated as "slightly below PCHP" so if Alear opens with a Rapier, Rapier poke + Lodestar Rush should probably be fatal.  That gives 4 Time Slip attempts, but 0.87^4 = 57% chance of Alear dodging all of them unless you let Gilgy double here and double with Time Slip. 
Alear & Marth vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Yeah, just in Alear's element.  Will take a bit but Alear's healing should get through.  Nec2's ID is the best option I guess but not inclined to hype that as turn 1 - might ram into evasion anyway.
Alear & Marth vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)
Wakka vs. the allegedly evasive.

Alear & Marth vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
If FE magic evasion works against WoS, Alear wins, otherwise they lose.
Alear & Marth vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Fun fight, but agree that Rapier hitting weakness here while also making Alear insanely dodgy is probably too much.
Alear & Marth vs. Chie (Persona 4)
Chie's raw HP isn't that great and she reduces it by doing her stuff.  She probably loses even if you let her have her auto-revive as she just can't connect with damage anyway.
Alear & Marth vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)
See Ephraim, Rapier hits weakness and - oh wait Alain is THAT tanky?  And can avoid counters?  Uh oh.

-

Oracle (Bravely Default II) vs. Emelious (Grandia 3)
Oracle vs. Rudo (Brigandine LoR)
I'll buy it.
Oracle vs. Lenneth (Valkyrie Profile 1)
Per Elf's comment.
Oracle vs. Sir Leopold (Dragon Quest VIII)
BD characters vs. tanky bosses is often an uphill battle since their damage-per-round is half most cast's in the long term.

Oracle vs. Celes (Final Fantasy 6)
Even if Oracle lands Elemental Impairment, the duration means that they're gonna have to land it again, even if they stocked up 3 BP.
Oracle vs. Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy 5)
Oracle vs. Neclord (Suikodens)
Yeah Neclord is kinda good vs. Fire/Ice/Lightning.  S1 form is probably preferred here which would be really tanky for a BD character to handle even ignoring that.
Oracle vs. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)
Drain hype?  I'm down.

Oracle vs. Hugo (Suikoden 3)
Actually not so sure here.  Hugo is only barely, barely below average HP and has average MDef.  Oracle will barely kill with 9x Triple hits on 4 Triple actions, but rolling low means Oracle will sit there at -3BP and die horribly, and feels a little all-iny a la gambling everything on fatal status.  If I wasn't lazy, I'd math out the odds...  maybe later, but I dunno if I approve of damage blitzes that aren't at least say 60% reliable.
Oracle vs. Ephraim (Fire Emblem 8)
Oracle vs. Chie (Persona 4)
Chie can theoretically slot in backup damage... except it's also Ice.  RIP.
Oracle vs. Alain (Unicorn Overlord)
I'll buy an MP-drain strat.


Alear: 5-5-2
Oracle: 4-7-1
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 12:42:16 AM by SnowFire »