Season 42-2: Icy overkill within

[Pyro]

My understanding is that limits have an accuracy boost in FF7 but eat it to perfect evade. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not an FF7 mechanics expert.

[Dark Holy Elf]

You're correct. I've definitely missed super-evasive FF7 enemies with them.

Shady has ~450 damage to ~1700 HP in his last form, to me. The HP figure should be higher if you have gold mediums before that form, but I don't agree with that (loads of overworld trekking when you can just wait for Lombardia which makes them easy, plus the game indicating that Zephyr et al. are meant to be fought at that point with their levels, which are right before that of Cradle of the Metal God enemies). The damage difference was due to Meep not understanding how FP works, note that he claims that Shady's damage can go up to 550, which is probably his damage at 0 FP.

[Luther Lansfeld]

*nods* And 350 would be at higher FP? Like how high?

[cloudstrifesheart]

Limtis are not dodgeable atacks. Limits that miss might be just because it is a status effect limit, but limits that deal pure physical damage do not miss. I've played the game like 23 times, I'm pretty sure I'm right. The enemie with the best evade is that cactuar grass plant creature when the weapon explodes and you access that hidden area next to Cosmo Canyon. That enemy has the best evade in the game, I've never seen a pure physical limit miss once.

[cloudstrifesheart]

Seymour vs. False Althena- Seymour's hp just isnt't enough

Deathevans vs. Miguel- Finally, a match Miguel can win

Dhoulmagus vs. Rika- Aint even close

Lulu vs. Ryu4- Lulu can't stop his dragon transformation, which means she can't outslug Ryu.


Arc vs. Selan

Sasari vs. Neclord- A lot closer than people give credit for

Boomerang vs. Sync- I stand alone.......so what

[Dark Holy Elf]

Unfortunately, I have seen those evasive enemies you mention dodge limits. And I don't mean status limits, I mean stuff like Meteorrain. Limits are not ITE.

*nods* And 350 would be at higher FP? Like how high?

Well, if 550 is indeed his 0-FP damage, then at 100 FP that would be halved at 275, and it goes linearly between the two. This would make 350 damage about 73 FP. 450 damage would be about 36 FP, i.e. initial, what I take bosses at.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Wouldn't a happy medium be a more fair representation, though? Although with the Summons/special abilities said happy medium might be lower than 46, with WA3's pitiful FP gains.

[Magic Fanatic]

Limtis are not dodgeable atacks. Limits that miss might be just because it is a status effect limit, but limits that deal pure physical damage do not miss. I've played the game like 23 times, I'm pretty sure I'm right. The enemie with the best evade is that cactuar grass plant creature when the weapon explodes and you access that hidden area next to Cosmo Canyon. That enemy has the best evade in the game, I've never seen a pure physical limit miss once.

OK, there's the numbers, now go run the tests to prove it.  Pick a weapon for a character that potshots accuracy (I think there's one that brings it down to like 40% or something, unless my memory is faulty), announce ALL your stats, what enemy you're testing on (like that highly evasive enemy you just told us about), and I'd say...  20 uses of a pure physical limit (that's not Vincent - his is an exception)?  Anywho...  Afterwards, announce the results of your tests.

Besides, even IF limits are a factor (as there's no way other than taking damage in battles that they go up, therefore, they start at 0 in the DL), then wouldn't the same physical walling, his own physicals, and then an L4 from Sheena's Lightning Rune be enough?



Now, on to my voting.


Godlike

Seymour Guado (FFX) vs. False Althena (L:EBC)
Deathevans (BoF2) vs. Miguel (CC)
Dhoulmagus (DQ8) vs. Rika (PS4)
Lulu (FFX) vs. Ryu (BoF4) - I know, epic voting.

Heavy

Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs. Selan (Lufia 2)
Sasarai (S3) vs. Neclord (Suikos) - I'd vote here, except that I've not played Suikoden 3.
Articuno (PKMN) vs. Tosh (AtLC)
Boomerang (WA1) vs. Sync (TotA)

Middle

Sheena Lepant (Suikos) vs. Cid Highwind (FF7)
Alice Elliot (SH1) vs. Dupa (S3) - I can't vote on this, but I know it's not even close.
Roland (DDS) vs. Nei (PS2)
Konrad (S4) vs. Paine (FFX-2)

Light

Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) vs. Alfred Schoredinger (WA3) - Yeah, I like healing.
Shady (WA3) vs. Ard (WA2) - I'm...  Not quite sure on this one.  Shady was actually more threatening to my characters than Ard was.
Jayle (VP1) vs. Gong (SF1)
Rody (S3) vs. Dinn (S5)

[Dark Holy Elf]

Wouldn't a happy medium be a more fair representation, though? Although with the Summons/special abilities said happy medium might be lower than 46, with WA3's pitiful FP gains.

I'd argue that initial FP is that medium. If you argue that the medium is, say, 50, then you need to spend time building up to that FP level (and beyond it, to make it average). This is a lot of time spent not using force abilities. So while it's fair to do this I suppose, it would also drop the damage average making WA3 bosses actually have some durability (since they are awesome when scaled against non-FP damage!).

I like initial FP because it's what you see turn 1 no matter what you do, and because it seems a reasonable balance between the extremes.

[Luther Lansfeld]

I wasn't really arguing the point. More musing on what the appropriate amount would be. Initial FP seems reasonable enough to me, I guess. Either way, one of their stats is going to skew in one direction and the other in the other direction so it should balance decently. I'd just like to see all this stuff in stat topics because you can't expect people to vote on matches correctly if the information isn't in topics.

[Grefter]

Red XIII with his low hit rating easy to get weapon should suffice to test it on with say Stardust Rain.  Don't even need to test 20 times if limites can miss, the odds of all those physicals hitting at that point are pretty low.

Edit - Alright not so easy to get, Behemoth Horn appears to be the worst chance to hit weapon in the game with 75%.

[Dark Holy Elf]

You'd need a very evasive enemy in order for even Behemoth Horn limits to miss, given they multiply hit by 2.55 (or possibly add 155%? Not sure how it works). Still, it can happen.

Ciato: Yeah, I should definitely work on posting the rest of WA3 bosses. I started on it (see: Prophets and C4 bosses are there!) but got sidetracked for some reason.

[Luther Lansfeld]

You know what this means? YOU FORGOT ABOUT SHADY. What kind of fanboy ARE you?

[Dark Holy Elf]

I... ;___;

Yeah I'm going to go kill myself now.

[OblivionKnight]

Suicide is your only option </LUE>

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

EDIT: NOTHING TO SEE HERE~

[Luther Lansfeld]

So anyway while Elfboy is slitting his wrists I'm going to be building an Ard shrine in this topic. Anyone who argues will have to SUBMIT!!! Cats are stupid! Dogs with helmets forever!

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

You furry. *Hisses.*

[Luther Lansfeld]

Well if I'm a furry then all you damn Shady fans are furries too.

[superaielman]

Oh. The FP thing explains why the WA3 bosses were so awful when I fought them.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well if I'm a furry then all you damn Shady fans are furries too.

We never mentioned having crushes over Sonic, however~.

We might want to swap the cattiness to General Chat, though!

[Luther Lansfeld]

I was four or five then!

Okay, that doesn't explain my crush on Rei... move along...~

And Snow, what's the alternative? Bawling about FF7 limits being dodgable?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

We could, uh, hype Gong's awesome stalling game!!111!

[Luther Lansfeld]

Quick four page analysis of Zhuzhen vs. Alfred!

[Tide]

Heavy
Boomerang (WA1) vs. Sync (TotA) - As much as I dislike Sync, this is a hilarious bad match up for Boomerang. He either hits Sync once or twice with his 3HKO then get Akashic Torment'd or let Sync blast him with Thunder Blade and generally fails horribly

Light
Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) vs. Alfred Schoredinger (WA3) - ;_; We were so close to a Shady vs Alfred match. Curse you Zhuzhen!