Meeple Fantasy 6

[Bardiche]

One of these days I'd like to try out this game, but it always seems to be getting better and I really want to try out a finished or the best version out.

By the way, I dig the new sprites!

[VySaika]

Yeah, what Yakko said about it looking more like she's shaking her fist.

Also, love Yuri's new casting sprite. That's badass. Tir's is great too.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Yeah, she's supposed to be holding her fist up as if she were going to shake it.

Her other arm is supposed to be behind her. Perhaps I didn't convey that she's standing slightly at an angle well, but you can see the tip of her white glove there. I suppose I can try to fix it up.

Finished Foomy. Working on Ike now (again). I just can't get him to look right and he still looks too much like Locke. After that I'm going to fix up Rolf (again), and then I'll be able to move on to finishing everyone's riding/fallen sprites, which is an extra 40 steps due to the way the editors work.

After the riding sprites, then I can finally finish up the custom NPC sprites. Odin, Zed, Songi, Fina are the only ones I have planned (I don't think I missed any?), and I then I can release the file to Meeple.

I'm not sure what to do about Roger Bacon, that's a billion extra sprites that I -really- don't want to redraw. I can just recolor Banon and call it day, I suppose. Note that Banon's sprite is also used for Duncan/Ben Hyuga with a palette swap, so that's an extra challenge to try to incorporate into this problematic sprite.

[Meeplelard]

The thing about the Angry Virginia sprite is that its EXACTLY like Angry Sabin's, where there's really no doubt its a "Bring it on!" style flex, and the two characters nothing alike.  I don't see the "She's shaking her fist!" thing personally, for reasons I won't get into, but the resemblance to Sabin's just can't be ignored, and that's what really stands out to me.  Its something I definitely didn't want, and I tried to elude to it before, when you made the guns (I didn't want the sprite changed much to begin with.)   The fist thing just really seems weird, and Virginia clenching her fist in that manner AT ALL seems weird.

[Taishyr]

* Taitoro shrugs. I like the Virginia sprites as well. I can see what Meeple's saying, but... eh, Iunno, it works/looks just fine to me.

[OblivionKnight]

The thing about the Angry Virginia sprite is that its EXACTLY like Angry Sabin's, where there's really no doubt its a "Bring it on!" style flex, and the two characters nothing alike.  I don't see the "She's shaking her fist!" thing personally, for reasons I won't get into, but the resemblance to Sabin's just can't be ignored, and that's what really stands out to me.  Its something I definitely didn't want, and I tried to elude to it before, when you made the guns (I didn't want the sprite changed much to begin with.)   The fist thing just really seems weird, and Virginia clenching her fist in that manner AT ALL seems weird.

I'm sure if she were constipated she'd be clenching her fists like that.  Otherwise, I...honestly don't see a resemblance to Sabin's sprite there at all.  I think if possible the back hand could be made more prominent, but think it works fine the way it is.

As I said, the one that looks most like an original character is Celes...Lina...blah.  Is there any way to make it look less like Celes without sacrificing it currently?

[Meeplelard]

If you guys think it looks like shaking a fist...it really does not fit the context Virginia dons that sprite in ever then.  I really can't stress this enough.  The sprite just isn't very Virginia like, the pose doesn't fit half the time she dons that in game.  I really don't like it at all.  And the for the record, it is identical to Sabin's "Angry" sprite, don't kid yourself.  If you can't see the resemblance, its very clear.  Oh, so Sabin's RIGHT arm is being raised instead of his left, and he's got his other fist in front...

Come on, you know very well that OTHER fist is a minor detail and you know very well you're reaching to just try and contradict it.  Its very obviously the same general pose.  Disagree about liking the sprite if you want, but don't go out of your way to lie about it just so you can try and discount my claim.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, actually... Even taking into account the different colors used and -only- looking at the pixels that form the forearm despite the effect the rest of the body has on the perception of the arm...

It's still different by.... 10 pixels. That's practically the whole thing... >.>;; Yes, it's kind of similarly placed, but the fact is that even a single pixel can make a difference in sprites of this size. This truth is why I took on this job in the first place.

So while I appreciate that you hate the sprite, "stop lying to support your claim."

[Cotigo]

I like how Meeple's constantly going "No leave my stuff the way it is," Djinn's constantly going "No wait let me toy around with it.... here, toyed around with," and then either it has blown up the file Djinn was working with, or it works and Meeple finds bad reasons to not like the results.

[Excal]

Yeah, Meeple does have a lot of bad arguments.  But Djinn's got a lot of posts here where the subtext of what he's saying is "I know you don't want this, but I think you're an idiot and therefore aren't worth listening to despite having worked on this thing for years.  So I'm just gonna do whatever the hell I want because I know you can't stop me.  Good day, and fuck you."

[Bardiche]

To be fair, Meeple isn't exactly cordial either, Excal.

Both sides are sort of hostile, I think? Djinn has a lot of ideas he wants to try and do, and some general fixes, Meeple has a lot of DON'T DO THAT without much explanation and now you're fighting over a sprite everyone but Meeple likes.

To be fair, it's Meeple's mod, so he should have free reign to decide whether something goes in or not. You can disagree with him (I know I do. Try mimicking the pose and having a fist in front or not really matters) but in the end he can basically say "Screw it, it's Meeple-service, not for the entire DL!" and he'd be absolutely right. (I recall he made it for himself and not for the DL in the first place, correct me if wrong)

*shrug* In the end this is an issue of interpretation and so long as Meeple does not see it the way everyone else does, then there is really nothing you can do. Djinn. It'd be best to just drop the issue and leave Virginia's poses alone.

[Clear Tranquil]

I don't think Virginia's worth everyone calling each other liars over 

[Random Consonant]

In fairness, I don't like the sprite in question that much either (it looks... rather odd), but I just can't be arsed to care about it much.

Have to agree with Excal, the whole subtext of a lot of Djinn's posts is... unsympathetic, to say the least.

I don't think Virginia's worth everyone calling each other liars over  Wink

What she said.  Seriously people, it's a freakin' sprite, get over it.

[Cmdr_King]

Clearly everyone is missing an important fact.  Djinn is an artist.  Even if not all of his work is liked, he's still going to argue in its favor.  Meeple just sets a ranty tone that comes off as all "fuck you I'm right" (this is not what is meant; Meeple simply argues that way by nature and means nothing by it except being thorough) and thus both sides adopt it.

Re: Ginny sprite- I think the arm pump has a "alright, let's get fired up!" vibe to it, which is good, but Ginny's mouth here makes her look angry.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I like how Meeple's constantly going "No leave my stuff the way it is," Djinn's constantly going "No wait let me toy around with it.... here, toyed around with," and then either it has blown up the file Djinn was working with, or it works and Meeple finds bad reasons to not like the results.

Actually, it has never blown up the file I was working on. We already established this. There was a display error in the editing program, and it worried me because I didn't get a chance to test it. Meeple confirmed that his original file had the same editor-display problem. And I spent 4 hours testing the sprites on my own file after that just to make sure.

It's important because I've spent a lot of time researching this shit and I know exactly what I'm doing, and it seems like the only time I ask for help (from the person who -should- be most able to support my endeavors), people instantly decry my ability to do game-hacking. And it's really starting to erode my patience.

I'm not angry with Meeple for wanting his game the way he wants it. And by God if I haven't let him have everything the way he wants it. But I'm trying to be creative. Sometimes he may not like what I come up with, but I get defensive when someone comes out and says "OMG you changed it, it sucks now" when changing it was kind of the point.

At any rate, Meeple and I have settled our differences. He gets MF6 however he wants it, and I'll do whatever the fuck I feel like with my test file (DF6?). It's a little more work, but honestly, I was always intending to keep playing around with FF6 hacking after I finished cleaning up MF6.

It has been a great learning experience, and I simply got exasperated with my teacher.

[Excal]

And then Random comes along and says basically everything I was trying to, but does so diplomatically and without profanity.

Honestly, I'm of the camp that this isn't the kind of thing that should be spilling out into the DL proper.  Neither of you are being entirely civil about this, and my post is more about Djinn coming across as less civil than Meeple, even if his words are nicer.

I don't think Virginia's worth everyone calling each other liars over  

But...  but...  That hair, that flair, that true to herselfedness!  What is more worthy of lying over than the perfect visage of womanhood!?

Edit: And then Djinn pre-empts me.  Glad to hear things are cooling down.

[Grefter]

It is almost like they are working in different time zones and wanted somewhere that they can leave messages for each other to read later.  Like on some kind of virtual message board somewhere that they can both read.

If only we could find something that works like this.

Now stop whining and get to the fucking,  porn with plot is always so tedious.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, on another note: I made a bunch of new portraits to replace the old ones that Meeple was using.

BUT, as per our new understanding, I won't load them into the MF6 file until I get confirmation that Meeple likes/doesn't mind new portraits.

I mostly just used the same images that Meeple originally had, but took the original art and resized the image to avoid the ultra-closeup effect that the old MF6 images had. I also used a few different images where I couldn't find the original art easily or the resizing made the image look terrible.

[Cotigo]

Well, you can still show us the work even if you haven't edited the master file, right?

[DjinnAndTonic]

If the forums weren't being finicky, yes, that was the idea.

Here they are now.


Used the Chaos Wars art due to it being less monochrome.


The previous image had the extreme closeup issue. I specifically chose this image because it matches the colors in his sprite.


Same image as Meeple used, but with less extreme closeup.


Chosen because clean, high-quality Tir images are rare (well, official art anyway).


I figure Meeple will dismiss this one out of principle, but I thought it looked really nice and I wanted to make it.


Forgot to make a zoomed-in preview image, so here's the raw actual-sized portrait.


I couldn't find the original image Meeple used, but all Ryu5 pictures look the same anyway. This one has less zOMG IN UR FACE-ness.


Remake image because I couldn't find a high quality version of his original art.


The previous image suffered from severe closeup syndrome, but that might have been intentional in this case? Either way, I liked this image better.


No change!


Same image, but less zoomed-in, and slightly recolored.


Used his Dis2 art due to the colors translating into 16-bit easier (it's less washed-out). Another 'less-zoomed-in' change.


No changes! This one looked pretty awesome to begin with!


The same, but less extreme close-up-ness!


This is technically fan art, but if you saw his previous art, you wouldn't care either.

I didn't mess with Biggs', Bacon's, or Kratos' portraits either.

Thoughts?

[Meeplelard]

I'll do image by image!

Yuri: Keep the one I have.  Mostly cause its his SH1 art, and that's the design Yuri has in MF6, so consistency!  I don't care if FF6 portraits were inconsistent (Gau's hair anyone).

Vyse: Looks fine, just looks like there are some disharmonies around the hair?  Looks like it could use a bit of touching up.

Virginia: Works.

Tir: The image is fine, but I specifically chose the Suikoden 1 art cause it was crappy Suikoden 1 art used in the game itself!  Tir should not look half decent as a result

Terra: Don't use her Dissidia art, keep the FF6 one.

Shady: Yeah, Shady was probably the big "Dear god this needs fixing up" cause it was a quick crop -> lower to 16 colors (which lost a lot of quality) -> post in.  Kept meaning to ask if you could fix that up.

Ryu: Don't use.  I always hated that shot of Ryu5, and actually wanted the one I used.   Heck, it was that shot that made me despise Ryu5's design at first (I've since warmed up to the design, obviously, but I still hate that shot.)

Prinny: Fine.

Lina: It sucks! You suck for the massive changes you made! Go die in a ditch! This is a joke.

Lenneth: Looks like a little more work could be done with that one since it looks a little too...pixelated? I know, FF6 portraits, I don't know, hard to put my finger on it, but something about the coloring is a little off.  MIght just be the base picture leads to that problem and there's not much you can do with it.

Laharl: I used the shot of his I had since it gave more of that "Evil Mad Dark Prince" look, rather than a generic emotionless face from his Dis 2 art, so...wanna keep the image I used, if fixed up.

Ike: See Lina.

Fayt: I'm...sure that's NOT the image of Fayt I used.  Cause I'm sure he was looking a little to the side and what not, this one is clearly looking out.  I'm pretty sure I used a shot of him where he was rendered.  You sure about that?

Foomy: I liked using his actual sprite as his portrait, cause that's what Lufia 2 did in its character portraits.  Granted, if you wanna replace Foomy's sprite with a DIFFERENT Foomy sprite (like a lesser level), that's fine.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Foomy. He be bubbles.

Already did Foomy's lesser level for a sprite...

[Meeplelard]

I meant for his portrait.  The current Foomy uses the same sprite in his PORTRAIT as his boss form.  I meant replace the Sprite used for his PORTRAIT with a lesser level Foomy in the menu screen.  The actual PC Sprite had nothing to do with this.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I really like the old shot of Tir better. It's iconic, being the one you see from S1, and I like it better anyway since Tir doesn't look 12. I don't have the MF6 shot in front of me right now so it's possible it could stand to be cleaned up, but consider this a vote for using the old one.

The rest vary from clear improvements (e.g. Fayt) to changes I have no opinion on. Good work overall certainly.

[Meeplelard]

...I just realized I didn't say anything actually opinionated about Fayt's shot, just kind of rambled about something completely technical that says absolutely nothing worthwhile!  It could also be read as an implication towards being negative response to that shot, when...well, you get the point!

I guess I'll say I have nothing against this new shot, and it looks decent enough.