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Author Topic: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)  (Read 23003 times)

EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #175 on: May 06, 2008, 11:35:47 PM »
Since it's LYLO, doesn't Meeple's vote put us into auto-lose scumhammer if both Meeple and Ciato are town?

I'll ponder this and probably post more when I get to uni.

I'm definately not happy about voting until I've had a few spare hours to look over the voting record in detail, time I've not yet had.
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2008, 12:08:15 AM »
Alex:

My role is that of a bodyguard.  To quote my PM:

...

...

...

Hah!  I wouldn't do that!  >_>  I have the special ability to choose any non-self player to protect for a night and prevent any attempts to kill them.  I am actually called a Bodyguard in role.  The flavour mentions, specifically, that I watch as they sleep.  I have not been told I die in attempts to kill someone, though I can't actually test that theory.

As for my choices...Ciato night 1 was because I had just jumped in, and had little overall to go on.  I was half considering guarding Carth on Night 2 (which would have been smarter, in retrospect), but having gotten the flavour text from Ciato, I wanted to see what else I could glean.  I was suspicious of Meeple myself, and wanted to see if there was a way I could play semi-cop.  Not a good idea, I understand, but that's what I decided to do after I had come back later on Sunday, and caught up with the posts post-haste.  Scum killing Meeple...honestly, it could theoretically kill off the other potential candidate of the day, leaving people in LYLO at square 1.  Not the best ideas, but that's what went through my head.  

As for why I didn't bring up the text on Ciato earlier...well, my last post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=898.msg17677#msg17677) was before you made a frue case on Ciato (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=898.msg17599#msg17599 is the last post you made mentioning her as a LaL candidate before I had to disappear for the weekend as I said earlier).  When I returned, the day had ended, and thus I couldn't mention a damn thing.  Timing of posts and being around is fuuuuuuuuun.  

As a random note, this is not a quicklynch Ciato scheme - had I put a vote on her, that would have given more credence to that (and been stupidly obvious).  I was baffled by the flavour text I got, and didn't mention it at all day 2 because A) No major case B) Why make a claim like that so early?

My concern with Ciato is that something happened that night that prevented me from guarding her.  What roles can do that?  Auto-hide roles can do that, and someone else doing something can do that (blocker, etc. - depending on flavour text).  However, no one else has claimed a role except myself.  So someone is obviously lying.  So what I'm left with is 2 vanilla townies and myself.  So therefore, scum would have to have power roles of some sort (blocker, whatever) that did something that night.  And they would have had to hit me that night.  I admit that's possible, but I don't find it likely - why go after the guy who was brand new, no-one knows anything about, jumped in last-second, etc.?  A big wild-card vs. someone that was established - yes, I know scum don't know roles...Hell, we can tell there was a desire to lynch me for being me and what I was, because Carth said it himself, that killing me because I was unknown on day 2 would be an idea he wouldn't hate.  Of course there'd be suspicion on me - using a power role on me would be waste, because it would be somewhat likely town would jump on me.  While killing vs. power roling is not the same thing, the principle thought here is the same.  

I have acknowledged that I could very well be wrong, but this is the best information we have, and the closest thing so far that pushes towards anyone.  It's LYLO, and everyone is suspicious.  We haven't bagged a single scum.  This narrows it down, I feel.  

Though, yes, I haven't fully considered Excal an inventor (which does what again, exactly?  Pick up skills of downed people?  Have a few shots of certain skills?) doing something to her, but...would that block me if she were protected already?  Yes, I am partially going by flavour text here, but what else do we have to go on?  Scum Ciato would give a message like that, especially if she went out for the kill - granted, yes, I am taking liberties, but that would explain why I couldn't find her to guard her - she wasn't where she usually was because she went to murder and maim.  

As another note, I am a bit worried Meeple jumped on Ciato right away (vote in LYLO isn't necessarily bad, but...even though I know I am town, even I would be suspicious of roleclaims in LYLO, without going back through everything...though granted, low info game), which does make me think things back a bit - the fact that there hasn't been an immediate jump to fully nuke her and end the game is making my head turn (is Meeple a scum?  or are Scum just waiting to fuck with peoples' heads?  The former makes the most sense, now).  Meeple/Ciato strike me as the most likely combination, and it could be Meeple sacrificing Ciato to keep himself alive.  But that's a bit of expansive thought.  

Really looking for other thoughts on this.      
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Ranmilia

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #177 on: May 07, 2008, 01:57:47 AM »
So, OK, you're not claiming standard bodyguard at all, but rather some sort of doctor + cop who can both protect from NKs and tell if the person you target goes out to kill someone else?  Again, why didn't you bring this up on day 2, if you had that information on Ciato?  You charged forth on Andrew and didn't even mention her *at all*...

... except for this post: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=898.msg17624#msg17624

Wherein you just say that you don't have a scummy read on her.

You could have mentioned that you were concerned about her without claiming.  You could have said something.  You could have chosen Ciato again and saw if she went on the kill again, that'd be a better idea than Meeple.  Thinking the scum would kill Meeple is nonsensical.  Thinking you might see Meeple as scum (assuming that your power even does that at all), live to the morning, and then reveal Meeple+Ciato, which is what you seem to be getting at, is... no, just no. 

This roleclaim is completely and utterly unbelievable.  Your actions are totally illogical and give us no reason to trust you at all except for the metagaming reason that there apparently aren't any other roles and just one inventor is unlikely.  So the real decision here is which is less likely - there being just a town inventor, or that this doc+semi-tracker "bodyguard" role exists and the person who has it would act in this way?  Yeeah I would be voting you for this claim right now except for the fact that Meeple/Ciato is already laid down.

Since a vote has been laid and there has been no scumhammer, either Meeple or Ciato is scum 100%. 

IF ONLY MEEPLE IS SCUM:
- Meeple/OK scumbuddies.  OK makes a BS roleclaim and Meeple jumps on it, either someone agrees and votes Ciato (Ok hammers, scum win) or Meeple is lynched, flips scum, OK argues Meeple was bussing Ciato for next day?  Plausible. 

IF ONLY CIATO IS SCUM:
- Ciato/OK scumbuddies?  OK makes a BS roleclaim to bus his partner (who has been lurking anyhow) and obtain major trust as a town role, then lynch ?? the next day.  He'd have to claim seeing Meeple as scum again for this to work unless he flips around and tries to go for me or Tom.  I have a hard time seeing this one.

IF MEEPLE AND CIATO ARE SCUM:
- That means OK is (somehow) telling the truth, Meeple's hopping on for the bus and we can lynch either Meeple or Ciato today. 
---- LYNCH CIATO
See previous possibility except the other way around.  OK will watch Meeple again and Meeple must either kill OK (probably dooming himself) or (much more likely) leave OK alive and play WIFOM on the role.
---- LYNCH MEEPLE
Meeple flips scum and Ciato similarly must kill OK or play WIFOM. 

Hm, okay.  That helped me work things out at least a bit. 

So who would have the harder time playing WIFOM with "OK is lying?"  ... Meeple, duh, he just blindly went along with him.

##Vote: Ciato

If this gets scumhammered by OK I am the dumbest person ever and will never give anyone any leniency on stupid behavior in Mafia again.  TOWNIES NEED TO PLAY BETTER THAN THIS.

EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #178 on: May 07, 2008, 04:07:32 AM »
WTF no, way too early to vote! Nobody vote! Argh.

If OK is telling the truth, wouldn't it be potential LYLO rather than real LYLO?!?!

Haven't had a chance to read properly, in class, ahhhh don't let quickhammer occur!
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Ranmilia

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #179 on: May 07, 2008, 04:14:17 AM »
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at there.  It is LYLO, LYLO is LYLO.  If a townie votes another townie the game ends.  Meeple voted Ciato (and I agree, entirely too fast).  Therefore if they are both townies the game is over.  The game is not over, so unless the scum are being cruel (which is not worth considering), either Meeple or Ciato is scum.  There is no sense in voting anyone but Meeple or Ciato today and the only decision to be made is which one of them is scum (or if you believe both are scum, which one do you want to lynch first).

Since I have also thrown down on Ciato, and Tom has posted and not scumhammered, this means that Ciato is scum guaranteed unless OK is scum and didn't see my vote yet, or the scumteam is Meeple and me, which I know for a fact is not the case and given the course of the game should be pretty apparent to everyone else. 

EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #180 on: May 07, 2008, 04:16:39 AM »
Oh right. I miscalculated... I assumed that OK could protect from NK tonight if we mislynched, leaving it at 2 town 2 scum, forgetting that we'd never get majority... shh it was a rushed thought/post >.>
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EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #181 on: May 07, 2008, 04:30:54 AM »
Something fishy going on here. I don't put much faith in a bus here.

eviltom - [town]
alex -
ciato (2) - meeple, alex
meeple -
ok -

If Meeple and Alex are town, (and I know I am), then ciato must be scum, but OK must also be scum. Why would OK finger Ciato? He could have fingered someone other than a scumbuddy for win.

It looks like we've lost unless the town of either Meeple or Alex unvote. Since Alex has posted and not unvoted, we've lost unless Meeple (town) comes along and unvotes before OK hammers.
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Ranmilia

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #182 on: May 07, 2008, 04:43:58 AM »
Please read.  The going theory is that either Meeple or OK are scum with Ciato.  Ciato had heat on her for lurking and would be an excellent target for a bus for either of them. 

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #183 on: May 07, 2008, 04:50:40 AM »
As an addendum to that, the die has pretty much been cast and since you are also town (now self evident from your behavior here), Tom, you should vote Ciato as well unless you believe the scumteam is Meeple+me. 

EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #184 on: May 07, 2008, 04:56:19 AM »
Heh ok
##Vote: Ciato
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VySaika

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #185 on: May 07, 2008, 05:29:38 AM »
Stop! Hammer time!

Continuing my fine lazy ass trend of not posting the flavor until the morning, I will simply say:

Ciato, (Tranny?) Matthew in a Sniper's outfit (SCUM) has been strung up by her(his?) ankles!

It is now the night phase. Please send in night actions.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 05:31:09 AM by Gatewalker »
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VySaika

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #186 on: May 07, 2008, 06:13:01 PM »
"Y'know, this Ciato wasn't in her cot when I went to patrol two nights ago," mused one of the remaining morphs.

And that one line started a burning wildfire of accusation. "Why didn't you mention this yesterday!?" "That means she must be one of them!!!" "Hey, that means you were sneaking around in the middle of the night too!" "Why should we trust you!?" "Let's get her!" These question, demands, accusations and more flew around like fireflies on a summer night, until one voice rose above the rest to calm the wild speculation.

"Brothers, sister, be at ease. There is one very simple way to answer all of these questions. We first kill the accused, and see what information that gains us. And then we act from there." Calmly rational, the last Bishop Morph took charge and arranged for the accused sniper to be killed.

When they caught her and strung her up though, an alarming discovery was made. The sniper was neither a sniper, nor even a woman, at all. A very stuffed bra, hair extentions...black hair dye and small gold lenses to be worn in the eyes were all found on "her" person, and in her belongings. This was no morph at all, but a human spy, and the one who had been killing them one by one.

But as the morphs rejoiced at killing a human, there was suddenly a startled yell as the Bishop who had moved to stand near an oddly bent tree was lifted into the air by a vine around his ankle...and slammed into the wall behind the now straight tree with a sickening crack. Someone had been laying traps, and the wisest of the remaining morphs had just walked right into one.

The three left looked at eachother with suspicion. One of them had to be the last human...


Sir Alex, Generic Bishop Morph (without any healing staves...) was murdered in the face

It is now day 4, and we're still in LYLO.

(0) Dread Thomas -
(0) Meeplelard -
(0) OblivionKnight -

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #187 on: May 07, 2008, 06:29:34 PM »
##Vote: Meeple

I guarded you last night and you weren't there.  And Alex is dead.  If you aren't scum, then I'm getting laid tonight.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

OblivionKnight

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #188 on: May 07, 2008, 10:53:17 PM »
Tom - if you have any questions, just ask.  But this is the end - the fact there hasn't been a hammer yet is proof of this (he was even online at the time that he could have hammered).

Also, killing Alex was a good move for scum - it puts way more suspicion on me.  Alex put suspicion on me for my post early day 3, saying that he'd nuke me if he could, then fell back a little, but still professed some intent.  Had I been killed last night, where would the blame fall?  Towards Meeple - Alex said Meeple/Ciato was a better thought than Ciato/OK.  Meeple would have been under total threat if I had died.  With me still alive, there's still the question of Alexs' suspicion lying around.  That puts Meeple in a better position to defend himself and get my lynched.  The only people we know are town are ourselves - Alex had already called you the most townie to him, so...only 2 people with any suspicion, the one that had to be implicated best would be me.

Even if that's not the case, it doesn't explain what the fuck happened last night.  He then obviously lied about being vanilla, as did Ciato.  I got the same flavour with Meeple I did with Ciato.  Ciato was sent out on the kill, and that's why I couldn't find her.  Ciato must have also been sent out night 2.  Meeple had to have been sent out on the kill for night 3 - that killed Alex.  Occam's Razor here works, because everything, all the pieces, fit together perfectly.  It makes logical sense.   

Both Meeple and Ciato have been fairly generalizing and non-commital all game, too.  Take your time to look back at everything, but this is what Alex called on both of them for the whole game.  Alex is confirmed townie.       

Meeple, if you aren't scum, then I'm getting laid tonight and the world is ending.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

OblivionKnight

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #189 on: May 07, 2008, 11:44:27 PM »
Bleh, mis-spoke that first part about hammering.  Completely stupid on my part, and I acknowledge that - why would he hammer himself.  Got my wires crossed.  For some reason, I'm not sure what I was thinking.  The fact of the matter still remains that he was on around the same time, and didn't post anything, such as a vote and case on me.  Might not have had time then, but he's been on recently (an hour ago, unless the clocks are off) and hasn't posted a case.  He voted Ciato to pull credence to himself as best he could.  I've claimed role, and I've shown it's accomplished something.  If I were scum, I would have voted for Ciato right away to put credence on myself and put a case up.  I didn't, nor did I hammer Ciato to make it look like it. 
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2008, 01:35:51 AM »
I may as well wait for Meeple's last words before I throw down the hammer.

*off to uni*
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VySaika

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #191 on: May 08, 2008, 03:28:33 AM »
Votecount

(0) Dread Thomas -
(1) Meeplelard - OK
(0) OblivionKnight -

With three alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #192 on: May 08, 2008, 03:47:06 AM »
Mrf.  Well, I realize I'm kind of backed into a corner due to that quick vote but...well...

Lets face it.  OK's whole strategy was "say this, that'll be enough!"  Its his entire claim, and he's banking on that.  He made a shakey role claim...which granted, I stupidly bought and am thinking twice about, and is going with that.  I notice now that his role claim came AFTER everyone else.  Its like he was making sure for everyone to make their Vanilla Role Claims, come in, say what he was, and then ride on that.

I don't have much else to add, really.  All I can do is...

##Vote: Oblivion Knight
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

EvilTom

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #193 on: May 08, 2008, 12:18:45 PM »
OK's role should have been modkilled; his character has not been here for half the game, which makes things extremely unfair. There is loads of evidence on Meeple, and like 3 posts from OK. Which makes OK impossible to find anything on. So if I fuck this up, it's totally not my fault.

##Vote: Meeple
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Excal

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #194 on: May 08, 2008, 01:01:17 PM »
And that is both Hammer and Game.

No posting until Gate's here to reveal just which side Tom handed victory over to!

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #195 on: May 08, 2008, 06:17:36 PM »
A Morph modeled after a strange red paladin, from a different time and place. This all came down to him, and he knew it.

The Nomad before him trained an arrow on the third of thier number, "Don't you see Thomas? It's the same as with that other human! I went looking for him and he wasn't there! He was setting the trap that got Alex, I know it!"

The swordmaster sneered, "Oh really? Well I was out looking for you just the same, and guess who I couldn't find? I think this excuse of 'patrolling for our saftey' has just been a cover so you could murder who you chose at whim." His sword was not yet drawn, but that made it no less of an immediate threat in the hands of one so fast.

And now the Paladin closed his eyes, and made a choicem "No, I believe him. A human would not have turned over one of his fellows so easily. They value eachother more then we do." And before the swordmaster could react, he drew his axe and flung it at the accused's face, burring it inches deep in his skull.

Blinking in surprise, the nomad looked to his the paladin and slowly put his bow away, "You...I trust. He had to be the last of them. Praise to Lord Nergal."

Retreiving his axe, the Paladin searched the body and found what he was looking for. Black hair paint, gold lenses. This was a human. The morphs had won. The red paladin took a Gamble and it paid off.


Meeplelard, Legault wearing Karel's spare clothes(SCUM) has tried to argue with An Axe To The Face

Town has won the game!

Alright, that's game for town. A small rant on why no, Modkilling Guide no matter WHAT his alignment/role was would have been worse then replacing him even late to follow, as I'm just a little tired of comments like
Quote
OK's role should have been modkilled; his character has not been here for half the game, which makes things extremely unfair

and "he must be Scum because Gate tried to hard to save him" or "he must be a Power Role because Gate tried to hard to save him"(and yes, I know he was a power role, please try to follow my logic and see why that had NOTHING to do with my decision).

First off, let's look over my options here, from the viewpoint of someone who knows nothign about the role:

Scenario 1: Guide's Role is Scum

Solotion 1.1: Replace him with OK.
Alright, this is obviously good for scum and bad for town. It gives a scum that lovely invincibility sheild of sorts of coming in late with a blank slate. Not a good option.

Solution 1.2: Modkill the Role
Well, this leaves a lone scum to fly solo. And, uh, we've already HAD a game(PB mafia, I believe) that proved very easily that a lone scum is nearly impossible to catch. So going by previous evidence, this would have been WORSE for Town, honestly.

Result of Scenario 1: Replace > Modkill

Scenario 2: Guide's Role is Town(Yeah, power role or vanilla, it doesn't matter)

Solution 2.1: Replace him with OK

Alright, this gives town an extra person, but someone they know nothing about and will cause confusion and suspicion. Hmm, probably not the best thing for Town, they would rather have the knowledge then the extra person. Bad for Town overall.

Solution 2.2: Modkill the Role

Well, this would bring us to 8 players total. Count the lynch from day 1 and the kill from night one and town...is AT LYLO ON DAY 2. At the very least "potential" LYLO if Excal had survived night 1(which he didn't). Making this the WORST POSSIBLE OPTION FOR TOWN.

Can you see where I'm coming from here now? Can you all see where I would fight to save any role as ANY MODKILL even modkilling a Scum does nothing but HELP the Scum? Yeah, this was a shit situation, but the amount of metagaming of "oh the role must be this because Gate tried to save it" and having people go "it should have been modkilled" is rediculous. Since modkilling would have been worse no matter what, I HAD to save the role.

So yes, feel free to be pissed about the situation, but please direct that pissyness towards Guide for dissapearing and putting us all in that situation. I did the absolute best I could in the situation I was put it.

Full Breakdown to follow at some point soonish, and if you have issues with the game balance, THAT you can legitimately blame me for.
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
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<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

AndrewRogue

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #196 on: May 08, 2008, 07:08:18 PM »
I personally have no problems with how you ran. ^_^

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #197 on: May 08, 2008, 07:26:56 PM »
Quote
Well, this leaves a lone scum to fly solo. And, uh, we've already HAD a game(PB mafia, I believe) that proved very easily that a lone scum is nearly impossible to catch. So going by previous evidence, this would have been WORSE for Town, honestly.

Uh, that's not true. If it were easier for scum to win solo, then it would be in the best interests for one scum in a game with two to quote his PM day 1 (or do something similarly suicidal). They don't do this, because it makes the game harder for them to win. Yeah, you can't find one scum through talking easily, but you CAN find him through power roles (if a sane cop finds scum any day except in LYLO, town wins for sure, as they just lynch both), and of course you may just get him randomly. More scum is always better odds for scum.

That nitpick aside, I'm not faulting your modding; in fact I'd commend your job. And I agree that a mod should make every effort to get a replacement, at least for a relatively early leaver.

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VySaika

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #198 on: May 08, 2008, 07:40:16 PM »
Logically, I agree with you. But prior experience from the games we've had here has shown that a lone scum is alot harder to catch then a member of a group.

As for the power role note, you're completely right. But *needing* the power role to catch the scum I think is just not right. Even in this game where yes, both Scum were caught by the power role, I think Towm might have won anyway, as Alex was onto both Meep and Ciato even before that.
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Fire Emblem Mafia (Game Topic)
« Reply #199 on: May 08, 2008, 08:28:12 PM »
I was convinced scum had won right up until Meeple's baffling vote on Ciato (why, man. That did not make you look good at all, instantly killed your less suspicious teammate, and OK looked terrible until you essentially gave him instant town cred with that - possibly the worst scum sacrifice I've ever seen), so I disagree with you there.


And as I said, you don't need a power role to win when it's 8 on 1 or whatever - you've got a pretty good shot of doing it by pure luck. A power role just puts it massively in town's favour - the odds of scum both dancing around a lynch (roughly 50% right here) AND never getting things twisted against him by a power role are just too low. You can't take one game as statistically significant for what will usually happen.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.