Ok, back from work and such! Anyway...
Rat:
Although I appreciate he has is own style this... format... is the most aggravating thing 'bout it for me. Anyway, it seems his primary reason is to see how she reacts to a vote, and not really her keeping-a-vote-on-Cid thing. Clarify that sometime, Meeple. I believe the suspicious thing about Ciato is the sudden change to Cid right after the surge of votes on Tom, so I could listen to a case made on her.
I could stand some linearity in my posts I suppose; I'm trying to work on that. I apologize.
My reason for voting Ciato was that I felt it was odd she was protecting El-Cid but voting for him at the same time. The "doesn't have a vote on her" added an aspect of confidence to her. When people lack votes, they get confident, and at the same time, allows them to lay back a little, since if they don't bring up any attention, they can stay under the radar.
Is this a scum tell or something? No. HOWEVER, I figured putting pressure on Ciato would at least help weave out the whole "staying under the radar" thing. Scum love to hide under the radar. If they can keep it up, no one can catch them. This almost worked for Dhyer in Rando Mafia, for example, until Andrew came in, did a role claim that confirmed SEVERAL townies, and managed to get Yakko to look at everyone more closely, noticed Dhyer had been hanging back, etc.
This doesn't always work, no, but...I figure staying under the radar is never a good thing for town. As I noted, its perfect for Scum if they can keep it up. For a townie, however, it helps make an easy target for Scum to snipe at...
As I said, I have some suspicions for her, and she's not my #1 target, however, I'd prefer to put some pressure on her rather than allow her to hang back and ride things out leisurely.
[quote[Lower-presence-than-others is kinda true. Wouldn't really call it lurkering, though, and her posts have been substantive enough.[/quote]
I agree. Its not an LAL vote, its more a "put pressure on her" vote. Though, one vote, thinking on her, doesn't really do much so in hindsight, this was probably not the best of moves...
To Ciato:
Why did I defend El-Cid despite thinking he was scum (or at the very least, scummier than everyone else at the time)? Because being objective is something I strive to do. The point about people announcing when they was going to post before he posted was completely inane, and just because there were other points on him doesn't mean that one point isn't completely stupid.
Suppose that's fair, just still feels odd when you vote against someone, then support them later. I'll go look back and see how you supported Cid, and see if they are indeed general objective stances.
My vote for Cid was LONG after the episode with Alex/Cid. I'm not sure if you are actually paying attention very well to the game, and that makes me EXTREMELY suspicious. As is it seems like you are trying to pull a case out of thin air on me for some reason, as well as, reading over the rest of your post, you seem to think other people are more suspicious...
Yes, I do think people are more suspicious than you. As I say earlier in the post, I feared you could easily slide under the radar had you not had any sort of pressure.
After recentish events, Tom's looking suspicious again. Why? He votes for Andrew, then says "I don't have time for specifics." While yes, I am suspicious of Andrew, I'm not going to simply jump on a train (especially since it pushes him to -1 Hammer, and doing this that early I just can't agree with) when at least one person didn't bring up reasons. It kind of reminds me of Clue Mafia; Cid basically attacked me instantly, when we were down to 5 people, without so much as giving a decent reason beyond "same as Kilga and Rat!" This not only got me lynched (I was Town), but also put him in a situation, combined with his earlier play, where the case on him was too strong for Kilga to ignore. In the end, for votes NOT on Day 1, I just can't get to going with ones where at least one voter lacks any sort of reason (And yes, voting purely to Hammer counts as a reason. This isn't the situation Tom is in.)
Well, he gives one reason; Andrew's been riding waves. Which is...about as vague a statement as they come. And that doesn't seem right anyway; Andrew at very least made a unique (if weird one) on Excal. He also was the first person to seriously vote against me from my recollection, though, that was from his Finger Pointing Post. I don't see wave riding here...
This isn't to say there are other reasons Andrew is suspicious. Of those, there's how he lurked for a while, posted something with no content, then finally comes in pointing fingers at most people in the game. Hammered El-Cid which is WIFOM naturally, so that doesn't go anywhere, and then there's the "I am going to post!" and never following up on it fiasco. Recently, he more or less responded to OK in what seems to be a subtle "OMGUS!" manner, claiming OK said something with no basis when he, in fact, did try to present a case.
So yeah, I'm suspicious of Andrew for a number of reasons. None of which are "Wave Riding" which is the closest thing to a reason Tom gave.
So why not vote for Andrew? Cause as I said, he's not my only suspect. Tom's on there too. At first, I was willing to give Tom some leeway for being Tom, but...his latest post involved Voting for Andrew with no actual reason. Can't fall back on the "Its day 1" argument here, can't fall back on the 'saving own skin' argument either.
Rat...I'm not really seeing Alex's case on him. Rat in general is hard to read until near the end, and frankly, I'm still thinking there's the psychological "Rat is Always Scum!" thing kicking in, which make people naturally look at him worse than he really is. As I noted, the oddest thing he did to me thus far is change from Tom to El-Cid, which isn't much; and again, in that case, the end result was Cid got lynched instead of Tom, since he just changed where the -1 to Hammer was. The only argument I can see for Rat is that Rat changed his vote from Tom to Cid, cause they're scum buddies, but that doesn't go anywhere since Tom's role hasn't been flipped.
Alex, meanwhile...his case on Cid is not what makes me leery of him. Its his case on Rat. His latest argument is bringing something up that I just don't see. Care to elaborate where you get this from:
Much more worryingly though I don't like how Rat's saying to Tom "What you did was scummy, unless you did it for this reason, then it's OK. Did you do it for that reason?" Of course Tom's going to say "Oh yeah, just saving my own skin, no scummy here nosirree!"
From what I read of Rat's post, he actually said something like "All of what Tom did wasn't too bad, just a playstyle thing...except that he also did this, which can't be ignored."
Different story altogether. What Rat is saying is Tom's incidents aren't much by themselves, but there are a few that stick out *AND* all that play style stuff, it suddenly makes him look bad.
Also...
Meeple was in on the ground floor with Cid on pushing things like day 1 LAL and "Better post content!"
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying I was supporting Cid's LAL thing? Cause, you know, I was generally against LAL. I noted why its popular, but I also said in that same line I disagree with it. The "Better post content!" stuff was something many people were saying in different shades; it wasn't "get Alex if he doesn't post!" but rather "Alex needs to post something soon, he can't ride out on his armor forever." I've seen people in other games say stuff like this for people who indicated they couldn't be around for some time.
As I noted before, calling something like that Entrapment, especially since El-Cid's one time where he stated that felt a bit tongue and cheek is overstating the situation. I'm apparently not alone on this either; Rat noted that all Cid was doing was extending from LaL, a common enough trend on day 1.
You were against Cid for going with common trends on Day 1, from the sounds of things.
Also, not sure how much this means, but apparently the only people to vote on Alex were myself and Cid. Look who Alex has voted on, meanwhile.
My vote stays on Ciato for now. As I said, while she's not my most suspicious target, I'm still suspicious of her some, but I want to keep my vote somewhere for now, and am not comfortable with switching it quite yet, especially since Andrew would by -1 to Hammer and this early, that sounds like a bad idea, especially since Tom hasn't given a good case!
....and shit, while I was posting that, EvilTom did, indeed, deliver a post about his reasons. I REALLY need to work on making my posts shorter for the sake of avoiding situations like this ;_;
