Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 7

[Nephrite]

"Hmm... you all managed to survive again... perhaps I need to liven things up next week if you all manage to survive... We shall just have to see..."

Team Laggy vs. Lynx, Harle and Gafgarion 5-0
Team Yakumo vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash 4-0
Team Super vs. Marle, Lucca and Nils, 5-0


Team Laggy's Matches

Floor 3b: Multiples (Before Midgame)

"Let's see how you deal with this little trick."

*All ST is MT for this floor. ALL of it.

Battle #11: Nino

Nino: I'm sorry... I just can't let you through here.

Battle #12: Alakazam and Chansey

Pokemon Trainer:  GO, ALAKAZAM! DON'T GIVE UP, CHANSEY!

Battle #13: Flik and Viktor

Flik: Hmph, this isn't even worthy of us.
Viktor: Ha ha! Let's go... we'll show these kids!

Battle #14: Alma and Nils

Alma: I will protect everyone... no matter what.
Nils: Ah... I suppose I'm just here for support, then...

Boss Battle #3: Dhoulmagus and Auron

Dhoulmagus: What a pity... to have to fight me.
Auron: Hmph...


Team Yakumo's Matches

Floor 4b: Attrition (Midgame)

"So, you think you have what it takes to make it through this unscathed...? Let's see!"

*All healing and revival effects are reduced to 0 for this floor.


Battle #16: Krin and Karn

Krin: Heh heh heh, you can't get past us.
Karn: I wish I could transform...


Battle #17: Marcus and Seth

Marcus: Hah! You will not pass here... not while I still breathe!
Seth: Let us go, Marcus! We shall route this evil.

Battle #18: Lemina, Mia and Rina

Lemina: I'm not getting paid enough for this, but if it's for the future of Vane...
Mia: I'm sorry, but this is where you cannot pass.
Rina: Hoo hoo hoo... this should be fun.

Battle #19: Shiba, Bazba and Dupa

Shiba: The Lizard Clan will never let you pass here!
Bazba: We'll stop you with all our might!


Boss Battle #4: Augst, Evil Gaia and Midboss

Augst: I'm afraid we can't let you all live. It's been determined you're too much of a threat.
Evil Gaia: You will... all die... here...
Midboss: W...why am I paired with these losers...?!

Team Super's Matches

Floor 5b: Something Completely Different (After Midgame)

"Hoh... you want to try something else? Fine, then. Let's see how you like this."

Battle #21: FFT Cloud FFT Balthier

Cloud: Uh... this is weird... Either way, I'll defeat you all.
Balthier: I get the feeling this shouldn't be... but that's okay. I'll show you how the main hero should act.

Battle #22: Trainer Yuna and Trainer Rikku

Yuna: Errr... this doesn't seem right, but...
Rikku: Hahaha! This seems fun!

Battle #23: RBY Pikachu and FRLG Mewtwo

Pokemon Trainer: Go, Pikachu! Don't give up, Mewtwo!!

Battle #24: VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist

Hrist: Hah... you foolish mortals, I will show you the divine power of the Valkyries.
Brahms: As much as I loathe to fight on your side... just this once!

Boss Battle #5: XS3 MOMO, XS3 Shion and XS3 Vergil

Shion: Lieutenant... we'll help you, just this one time.
MOMO: That's right!
Vergil: Hmph, as if I need it...



Team Laggy | Timelord, Jerin, FFT Ninja, Mia, Nall
[Floor 3b]
*All ST is MT
Team Laggy vs. Nino
Team Laggy vs. Alakazam and Chansey
Team Laggy vs. Flik and Viktor
Team Laggy vs. Alma and Nils
Team Laggy vs. Dhoulmagus and Auron

Team Yakumo | Yuri2, Edgar, Claude, Aeris (Restore Materia), Mint
[Floor 4b]
*All healing and revival effects are reduced to 0 for this floor.
Team Yakumo vs. Krin and Karn
Team Yakumo vs. Marcus and Seth
Team Yakumo vs. Lemina, Mia and Rina
Team Yakumo vs. Shiba, Bazba and Dupa
Team Yakumo vs. Augst, Evil Gaia and Midboss

Team Super| Rika, Aeonless Yuna, Palom, Porom, Onix
[Floor 5b]
Team Super vs. FFT Cloud FFT Balthier
Team Super vs. Trainer Yuna and Trainer Rikku
Team Super vs. RBY Pikachu and FRLG Mewtwo
Team Super vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist
Team Super vs. XS3 MOMO, XS3 Shion and XS3 Vergil

[superaielman]

Team Super| Rika, Aeonless Yuna, Palom, Porom, Onix
[Floor 5b]
Team Super vs. FFT Cloud FFT Balthier-Um wow. Unless I'm forgetting someting I'm in deep shit here. Balthier charms Rika, who IDs Yuna. Cloud... actually probably can't kill Porom/Palom, both can stop STone. So he FTs Onix I think? Palom... this is midgame IIRC, so Quake's not so uber at this point, still good. Think Balthier has to commit to blocking ID and keeping his speed up, so he has a hole in his status defense. Stop should work, it's base hit rate should overcome the evasion. Porom Esunas Rika, who promptly murders Cloud's speed. That lets the twins go before him, so Mini+Berserk spells the end of his usefulness. Rika then busts Balthier's speed (Stop lasts three-four enemy turns), Palom/Porom pile on the nonfatla but annoying statuses, and everyone is revived.

What a fucking pain in the ass fight.


Team Super vs. Trainer Yuna and Trainer Rikku- This however is easy. Slow on Rikku+Palom status ends her before she can do any real damage, Yuna having Esuna just makes sure things don't get out of hand.
Team Super vs. RBY Pikachu and FRLG Mewtwo- ID the rat, Mewtwo can't handle a good team. Actually it may be worthwhile to just say fuck it and have Palom/Porom/Yuna all take a stab at statusing him- if he uses Safeguard it just means the twins can knock out the rat and start in on pounding Mewtwo. Feels like a breather fight.
Team Super vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist- Saner should handle this. Brahms is a tough foe but is ST, Hrist can't really get around the evasion. Nor can Brahms come to think of it.
Team Super vs. XS3 MOMO, XS3 Shion and XS3 Vergil- Saner. Palom/Porom status out Shion and MOMO. Virgil can't really handle a team by himself.




Team Yakumo | Yuri2, Edgar, Claude, Aeris (Restore Materia), Mint
[Floor 4b]
*All healing and revival effects are reduced to 0 for this floor.
Team Yakumo vs. Krin and Karn- Target Edgar.
]Team Yakumo vs. Marcus and Seth- Edgar bites it here, no one on Team Yuri is at all fastor really damaging.
Team Yakumo vs. Lemina, Mia and Rina- Rina+Mia both get off MT spells, team is in deep. Aeris's limits are worthless here... shit, does the team even get past this fight?  Don't think so. Odd choice to teak the no healing floor, Yakko's team is way too reliant on healing to get by.
Team Yakumo vs. Shiba, Bazba and Dupa
Team Yakumo vs. Augst, Evil Gaia and Midboss

Team Laggy | Timelord, Jerin, FFT Ninja, Mia, Nall
[Floor 3b]
*All ST is MT
Team Laggy vs. Nino- TE
Team Laggy vs. Alakazam and Chansey- Alakazam goes first and... um.. well, smashes the shit out of the entire team. Actually that's sort of a problem, can anyone besides Jerin heal? I don't think Stronger is full healing at this point. Ninja should.. mm. Does he one round Alakazam? I.. have no idea. But TL should TE Alakazam even if the status doesn't work, so he can lower his speed. That means Jerin/TL/Ninja should get the jump on him next round, which is death even with Chansey buffing defense. Doesn't matter, barely dents resources.
Team Laggy vs. Flik and Viktor- TE
Team Laggy vs. Alma and Nils-  Something.
Team Laggy vs. Dhoulmagus and Auron I think I see Auron jumping overdrive here, which really matters. He's going to open up with Zombie Attack. TL's blown... 10~ jp by this point? He's going to have a four turn Overdrive. One of those turns goes to statusing out Auron, the rest goes to hitting Dhoulmagus. Which doesn't mean much, but Laggy's plan forgets a couple o fthings.

1. Dhoul resists stat downs by 50%. This means it's going to miss turn one if he goes for stat busting with TE.
2. TimeLeap only skips the first action in a multiaction.
3. Dhoul has multiactions.

Dhoulmagus loses.. hell, less than PC HP to the assault, probably. He 3HKOs Laggy's entire team, 2HKOs everyone but.... the entire team actually, Zombie Attack does damage. Wow. And I'm dead sure Dhoul's going to get that turn- TL is worthless once Overdrive's spent, he resists some of Mia's damage and Jerin has no offense.

EDIT: According to the stat topic Auron can block stone. This is kind of a slaughter.


EDIT2: Haha, how could I forget that overdrive is MT here? Fail. Timetwister makes this a joke.

[Yakumo]

In fairness, my team wouldn't do very well on the reversal floor, what with being short on revival and ID.  My team has been relying heavily on the Noiseblaster allowing me to not lose people and to heal while they spin, not especially awesome healing.  With the Noiseblaster reduced to MT confusion healing, that wouldn't work so well.  So I basically said to put me on the other floor without even knowing what it was.

That said, I'm going to have to look into what Yuri has available at this point, what Aeris' non-level 1 limits are since I never changed her off that level in game to see if any of those could possibly matter(probably not), and start figuring out FE vs. ARPG speed tiebreak headaches so I can figure out if I actually have a chance here or not. @_@

[SnowFire]

Team Super vs. XS3 MOMO, XS3 Shion and XS3 Vergil

Not entirely qualified to comment since I don't know Onix (and don't know Rika that well), but I'd just like to point out that XS3 does have a storebought complete status immunity item in the Wiseman's Beads, like Grandia I.  Now, it's horrendously expensive to buy three of them, and furthermore, there isn't really much of an aftergame to use your shiny toys with (Erde Kaiser Sigma doesn't status you at all, IIRC), but on the other hand, it seems that many people do allow obscure / hard to get endgame stuff.  This is Really Bad if Shion & MOMO have it, since that turns off the "status them out" option.  Speaking of statusing out...  do Porom and Palom have any silence resistance?

Anyway, if Saner speeds up Porom & Palom enough that they go before Shion and she doesn't have the Beads, I suspect the battle will go as Super describes.  If Shion gets a turn but doesn't have status resistance...  I guess she tosses Safety on Vergil (if that's a legal boss status?) to strain Super's resources a bit more in case they run out?  Also, I forget if Porom / Palom's statuses are multitarget, but I know that people can cast spells through Porom's Mini, so if Palom doesn't have a multitarget status, both Shion and MOMO have Revert to clear negative status of all allies.  Even without the beads, that would probably slow down Super's team somewhat, though I'm not sure it'd be enough.

If Shion and MOMO do have complete status resistance...  well, thanks to the amount of healing on Super's team, breaks would normally be the way to go, but if Saner buffs evade, that may be chancy.  Worst comes to worst they just try and wear out Super's resources (possibly already drained from the first fight) with Shion spamming Disengage to blow away their buffs, and MOMO & Shion both healing / tossing Safety / reviving each other.  Meanwhile Virgil uses Overtaker and builds up Boost.  Of course...  Virgil's damage is pretty awful until somebody attacks him, on the other hand.  Not sure I see a good way to break through the healing wall, though; it may come down to attrition.

[Excal]

Unlike Super, I don't quite see his team getting through that first fight with his healers unscathed.  Barrage splatters Porom, FT hits first time, and even if Yuna does bring Porom back, Balthier is fast enough to get a second shot in before it'll matter, just as Rika going before Yuna will similarily mean that the deceased Porom gets no benefit from Deban or Saner.  He wins, just not with healers intact, and that ends him.

Yakumo has also just been cruising on Edgar, and without healing, can't deal with the waves he's going against.  Especially after they do manage to down Edgar.  So, there's another fall.

Finally, there's Team Cyril...  Uhhh....  Yeah.  I don't know about Dhoulmagus and what he can or cannot do, but he's facing a full team while TE cheeses out the rest of the floor.

Super vs. Floor 5
Cyril vs. Floor 3
Yakumo vs. Floor 4

[superaielman]

Unlike Super, I don't quite see his team getting through that first fight with his healers unscathed.  Barrage splatters Porom, FT hits first time, and even if Yuna does bring Porom back, Balthier is fast enough to get a second shot in before it'll matter, just as Rika going before Yuna will similarily mean that the deceased Porom gets no benefit from Deban or Saner.  He wins, just not with healers intact, and that ends him.

You're seriously overrating Balthier and Cloud's speed. If he lets Rika have a turn, she simply Saners. Palom goes before Cloud in that case (The speed difference between the two is pretty small at this point in the duengon, Cloud's not fast and Palom's only a touch below average), statuses him out with ease as he has to block both slow and ID to not be manhandled by Rika. Yuna revives Porom, Balthier can't solo the fight from this point.

Balthier's also not going to instantly double the twins.

[Tonfa]

Yakumo doesn't make it, no clue on anyone else.

[Laggy]

Team Laggy | Timelord, Jerin, FFT Ninja, Mia, Nall
[Floor 3b]
*All ST is MT
Team Laggy vs. Nino
Team Laggy vs. Alakazam and Chansey
Team Laggy vs. Flik and Viktor
Team Laggy vs. Alma and Nils
Team Laggy vs. Dhoulmagus and Auron - All fights are handled by MT TimeEclipse or MT TimeLeap (the latter basically being 100% turnskip on all opponents with no danger of running out of resources). Overdrive's not even necessary, TL's that broken on this floor....

Except this one. Super brought up a good point in that TimeLeap doesn't block multiacting (I'm hazy on this, but for now I'll assume it's accurate), Overdrive is necessary. Auron opens with MT Zombie Attack, nailing everyone and disabling all healing. Overdrive triggers.

* TimeLord uses TimeEclipse 4-5 times (depending on what you see OD giving at this time). Wild guess as to what the damage average is right now, but the important thing is that it assuredly speedbusts both Dhoul and Auron. Dhoul's 50% resistance isn't anywhere near enough to stop being hit by it four times in a row. It should also still do respectable damage (even if you see as... say, half average, that's 2x-2.5x average to both. Remember, it's MT.)
* With them both speedbusted, everyone else goes first. Ninja's physical is MT and pretty much assures Auron death; Jerin further seals it. Mia is probably best off throwing her Ice Shell buff on Ninja so that he doesn't get one-shotted by Dhoulmagus.
* At this point on it's a blitz, and it depends on where you see Dhoulmagus' durability (he's been hit by 4-5 TEs, Ninja physical, Jerin, and is about to get hit by another round of the latter two. Also assumes that Ninja/Jerin don't double him after his first attack, which after getting hit by TimeEclipse spam... is completely possible.) If that kills him, the team slides.

Team Yakumo | Yuri2, Edgar, Claude, Aeris (Restore Materia), Mint
[Floor 4b]
*All healing and revival effects are reduced to 0 for this floor.
Team Yakumo vs. Krin and Karn
Team Yakumo vs. Marcus and Seth
Team Yakumo vs. Lemina, Mia and Rina
Team Yakumo vs. Shiba, Bazba and Dupa
Team Yakumo vs. Augst, Evil Gaia and Midboss

...yeah, poor Yak doesn't pass. Edgar's his backbone and he's too slow to go before a majority of these folks, and with no healing that's just a guaranteed death knell somewhere within the fights.

Team Super| Rika, Aeonless Yuna, Palom, Porom, Onix
[Floor 5b]
Team Super vs. FFT Cloud FFT Balthier - Uh. See Super's analysis, except one problem - FT's a 1/3 chance of Stop, ID or Petrify, so that means it's a 66% chance of landing a lethal status, and he'd almost certainly use it on Porom (removing Esuna from the picture). With Rika charmed and Yuna/Porom dead, that's pretty much game. That said, is Psy equipment around yet/is Balthier's charm 100%? If the former is true and the latter is not, Rika avoiding turn 1 charm pretty much seals the whole fight. Awaiting feedback on that. (Also this floor is full of annoying obscuria I don't have the slightest clue how they work, so I probably will end up abstaining on it anyway. Argh.)
Team Super vs. Trainer Yuna and Trainer Rikku
Team Super vs. RBY Pikachu and FRLG Mewtwo
Team Super vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist
Team Super vs. XS3 MOMO, XS3 Shion and XS3 Vergil

[VySaika]

Team Laggy | Timelord, Jerin, FFT Ninja, Mia, Nall
[Floor 3b]
*All ST is MT
Team Laggy vs. Nino
Team Laggy vs. Alakazam and Chansey
Team Laggy vs. Flik and Viktor
Team Laggy vs. Alma and Nils
Team Laggy vs. Dhoulmagus and Auron - All fights are handled by MT TimeEclipse or MT TimeLeap (the latter basically being 100% turnskip on all opponents with no danger of running out of resources). Overdrive's not even necessary, TL's that broken on this floor.

Team Yakumo | Yuri2, Edgar, Claude, Aeris (Restore Materia), Mint
[Floor 4b]
*All healing and revival effects are reduced to 0 for this floor.
Team Yakumo vs. Krin and Karn
Team Yakumo vs. Marcus and Seth
Team Yakumo vs. Lemina, Mia and Rina
Team Yakumo vs. Shiba, Bazba and Dupa
Team Yakumo vs. Augst, Evil Gaia and Midboss

...yeah, poor Yak doesn't pass. Edgar's his backbone and he's too slow to go before a majority of these folks, and with no healing that's just a guaranteed death knell somewhere within the fights.

Team Super| Rika, Aeonless Yuna, Palom, Porom, Onix
[Floor 5b]
Team Super vs. FFT Cloud FFT Balthier - Uh. See Super's analysis, except one problem - FT's a 1/3 chance of Stop, ID or Petrify, so that means it's a 66% chance of landing a lethal status, and he'd almost certainly use it on Porom (removing Esuna from the picture). With Rika charmed and Yuna/Porom dead, that's pretty much game. That said, is Psy equipment around yet/is Balthier's charm 100%? If the former is true and the latter is not, Rika avoiding turn 1 charm pretty much seals the whole fight. Awaiting feedback on that. (Also this floor is full of annoying obscuria I don't have the slightest clue how they work, so I probably will end up abstaining on it anyway. Argh.)
Team Super vs. Trainer Yuna and Trainer Rikku
Team Super vs. RBY Pikachu and FRLG Mewtwo
Team Super vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist
Team Super vs. XS3 MOMO, XS3 Shion and XS3 Vergil

Laggy sums up everything, including my hesitation to vote on Super yet.

[superaielman]

Balthier's charm is like 67%. The backbone of my argument is that no way do I see two 66% statuses hitting on turn one for the enemies. It's not perfect, and no idea if Psy equips do anything about charm.


The rest of the fights are pretty straightforward. Only problem is a really good fight one.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

At floor 4, Psy equipment is certainly available. Hell, at that point they're probably the default equips (you gain access to them juuuuuust after you lose Alys).

EDIT: Man, super is at floor 5? Dear god, then why is there even a question of Psy equips being available or not? They're floor 4 at the latest. >_>

[Laggy]

Mmyeah. I still can't vote on that floor because I'm freaking clueless on XS3 and X-2 Trainers (not to mention having to look up Balthier himself), but the charm being only 67% and Psy being available means Super's team probably passes that fight. Balthier can open with Barrage to own Porom and Cloud could try to FT Yuna, but the fatal flaw there is that Yuna goes first and Lifes Porom back up. As long as Yuna and Porom don't both die simultaneously, they have that fight. And with Rika able to Saner, Yuna's turn is not in question.

[superaielman]

Oh, also edited in votes on Laggy's team. Ended up looking over the fight with Meep (The boss fight) and voting. That team is a bit cruel in restrospect- first strike zombie attack is mean.

EDIT: I'm also ignoring Dhoul1.

[VySaika]

My Dhoully 2 durability respect is...decent, but not enough to see him surviving the all out blitz after the OD. Also note that Mia doesn't have to just Ice Shell the Ninja, she Ice Shell's the whole team. It's MT too~ So leaving my Laggy vote as a pass.

And...yeah, abstainign on Super still. I forgot the boss was XS3, which I don't know. And as that's the BOSS of the floor, I kinda feel like I shouldn't vote on that if I don't know it.

[superaielman]

Virgil's got decent stat topic information. He's got some good limits that don't help for squat thanks to him being vunerable to slow and having to deal with Palom hitting a weakness with Fire 3.

[Mad Fnorder]

If Balthier is fast enough, He could just splatter Yuna with Barrage. Cloud FTs Porom, and now Super loses his revival. Palom and Onix get picked off in the next couple of fights... but hey, it's Rika. She can probably solo the floor!

[Excal]

Rika's not good enough to solo a floor without healing to keep her up.  More importantly, Saner kicks in on round 2.  It won't help Palom go before Cloud here.

Super, as for your claim on Balthier and his speed, I'm also not inclined to let someone gain CT while they're dead.  Palom will either gain nothing, or just reset (with my inclination towards resetting).  Either way, this means Balthier gets another turn before she does, and that's the end of your revival.

This is, of course, assuming Barrage isn't good enough to kill Yuna, but I don't think 2x Gun damage is enough to kill her in one shot, even if it is a really good gun.  Nor do I think Balthier will ever go just before Cloud without Palom up before this fight is over, so it's all moot.

[superaielman]

If Balthier is fast enough, He could just splatter Yuna with Barrage. Cloud FTs Porom, and now Super loses his revival. Palom and Onix get picked off in the next couple of fights... but hey, it's Rika. She can probably solo the floor!

The problem here being that Cloud doesn't beat out either Twin if Rika gets a turn, thanks to Saner. Again, Cloud is not fast at all in the DL.

[Excal]

And again, Saner does not kick in until round 2.  Cloud gets a turn because Saner does not effect the Turn 1 speed order.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yes, it does. See Raja going before Dark Force 1 first turn due to Saner.

[dude789]

Laggy makes it, Super and Yakumo don't.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yes, it does. See Raja going before Dark Force 1 first turn due to Saner.

No, it doesn't, in-game at least. See Cancelling being nasty and allowing PD to kill someone next turn even though Rika is still guaranteed to go before her.

Dark Force 1 is slower than base level Raja, which might be what's confusing you. He doesn't even need Saner!

How you want to see Saner working in a CTB system is of course up to you, but Excal's view is perfectly legitimate.

[superaielman]

Yeah, I think just about everyone's been voting on Saner/Illusion working turn one since this isn't a turn based format. See: Balthier double hype, etc etc.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yes, it does. See Raja going before Dark Force 1 first turn due to Saner.

No, it doesn't, in-game at least. See Cancelling being nasty and allowing PD to kill someone next turn even though Rika is still guaranteed to go before her.

Dark Force 1 is slower than base level Raja, which might be what's confusing you. He doesn't even need Saner!

How you want to see Saner working in a CTB system is of course up to you, but Excal's view is perfectly legitimate.

Oh, okay. Shows how much I know. <_<

On the other hand, if Rika's going first anyway, wouldn't Deban work just as well? What's absolutely essential is allowing Yuna and/or Porom to get turns. Deban should ward off the OHKO threat from at least Yuna (Porom is more debatable), and if you see Barrage unfocusing, killing them with it becomes far less feasible now. They have to focus their efforts too much, now, which throws a wrench into things something fierce, and by floor 5, Palom should have most of his status ready to roll. In hindsight, Deban may well be a better bet than Saner in this particular fight?

EDIT: I mean, at least in the sense of forcing Balthier and Cloud to go the status route. Balthier would feasibly double Palom, sure, but the OHKO after Deban would still be questionable (moreso than Porom, since she's even frailer than him by now), and he still has to focus his offensive. And... well. -If- the issue is the status not working until the next turn, Rika would just use Illusion instead, obtaining a better net effect against Balthier taking Excal's view, right (start working only next turn, but Balthier's turn is so close to coming anyway)? Granted, doesn't work if you see him as faster than Rika, but.

[Laggy]

Most people (including Super) are seeing Balthier as going before Rika.

I hadn't even realized that particular quirk of Saner. On hindsight that makes it a hell of a lot more tame (Rika's main offense to me in the dungeon is that she's so blatantly good at giving an entire team blitz capability -before 99% of enemy teams move- along with everything else she has). And yeah, if you see Balthier going first, hitting Yuna (for the OHKO), and hold Saner to that, Super's team is in deep trouble.

I myself still don't know, pending further arguments. <_<