Register

Author Topic: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions  (Read 2549 times)

Bobbin Cranbud

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
    • The Writing of Joshua Cole
Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« on: October 19, 2012, 09:49:36 AM »
As those of you who read the Sigs and Avatars thread or looked at my signature may know, I released one of my novels, The Fox Who Stole Hong Kong, through Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing. And while the sales have been only a little worse than I expected, they've been adequate for a first self-published novel.

As near as I can tell, though, what they have not been is to friends and acquaintances! Normally, self-published writers have trouble breaking out of that limited market, but as far as I can tell I've had trouble breaking in, and am wondering why.

Since several DLers are writers and the group started on a site entirely filled by my writing (sometimes attached to a certain little tournament, but I'm sure that didn't signify ^_~), I thought I'd ask here if anyone's checked it out, and if so, what you thought.

Perhaps more relevantly, if not, why not? Signatures turned off? Don't read ebooks? Read the sample and didn't care for it? Don't like urban fantasy?

Whatever the reason, I'd love to know, because I do plan to keep doing this with my back catalog and it would be nice to know what, if anything, I'm doing wrong before I release another.
Read my webnovel, Eye Opener, now available on RoyalRoad.

Yoshiken

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2068
  • Yay!
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 10:20:05 AM »

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 02:09:10 PM »
My only ebook reader is my phone and assumed it only reads stuff off iTunes.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Ranmilia

  • Poetry Lover
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1687
  • Not a squid!!
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 02:40:23 PM »
If I could get it as a PDF for $5, or even a bit more, I would.  But... no Kindle, and although I could theoretically install the Amazon Dot Com Free Kindle Reader App, I don't much like single corporation DRM-locked platforms.  I read the sample, and it was all right?  But not really amazing, and it would take something pretty super special awesome to make me willing to spend money on a platform I philosophically oppose. 

Best of luck to you, though!

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 09:25:44 PM »
Don't read ebooks?

Almost entirely this~

This. My stubbornness in adapting to new media really cannot be overstated. I still buy CDs for any and all musical needs and do not use the iPods. Similarly, when I wish to read a thing, it should have pages that I can flip. None of this is rational, philosophical opposition, I am just ludicrously old-fashioned about little things like this.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 04:08:13 AM »
I bought it! Gotta use that tablet for something. I'll post here or drop you a line after I, y'know, actually have time to give it a read.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5064
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 04:29:10 AM »
I bought it too. I've never read anything on my Tablet before aside from research articles, and I haven't successfully talked myself into actually trying to tackle a book on it yet.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Captain K.

  • Do you even...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2176
  • ...lift books bro?
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 05:00:38 AM »
I started reading it!  But it's the kid's Kindle so he needed it for like, school, and junk.

The kid also read it and said you had "problems with sentence structure".  Congrats, you have now been criticized by a 16-year-old.

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 07:45:45 AM »
Congrats, you have now been criticized by a 16-year-old.

Welcome to the internet, have a nice stay.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4938
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 11:08:02 PM »
An...  eight tailed fox?  Did she lose one somewhere?

I read the writing sample.  Chapter 2 was intriguing (Hong Kong just before the handover?  Sign me up), Chapter 3 didn't grab me, and Chapter 1 kicked over a few of my annoyances with some urban fantasy stories.  Aside from being an old fashioned let-me-read-a-real-book type, I doubt I'd read this even if I had the real book.  That isn't to discredit the book, just that with so many books and so little time, there's little reason not to read my fantasy from the very best, rather than what is likely a decent & competent stab in a sea of other "pretty good" books.  Keep at it, the only way you get better is to keep writing of course.

Sentence structure isn't what I'd complain about, though!  You know how to turn a phrase, which is good, since this isn't something easily taught.  It was more what this art was used for.  The main thing that set off alarm bells for me is the feel of Hsien's snidely unstoppableness.  Third person limited naturally tends to write as if touched by the point of view of the main character, so this isn't necessarily as big of a worry as if this was in fact the perfect narrator declaring her awesomeness; this could simply reflect her arrogance.  Still, I'd have to hope she's in for a big come-down in the middle of the book where she finds out she isn't all that.  There's a reason the country bumpkin forced to save the world is so common as to be almost cliche; they are naive, outgunned, fallible, and don't know the traps waiting for them, so they're in for a rough ride where they're constantly the underdog.  As you amp up the power of your protagonist, they have to go up against huger and huger threats to keep things interesting; Paul Atreidies is going to have to fight an entire galactic army or something to have a fair fight.  I mean, it's a balancing act of course, if you want her established as a competent magic thief then fine; it just seems like it's going to be hard to sell me on her losing to something other than "bigger magic" when she has haxy escape-to-the-sprit-world-with-loot powers.  (and yes, I know that the end of Chapter 1 implied she was in Big Trouble until she was rescued by the fairie bridge, but I didn't really feel why.  Maybe too much to ask for in a limited space, I suppose.)

Anyway, good luck.

Bobbin Cranbud

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
    • The Writing of Joshua Cole
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2012, 12:05:54 AM »
Thanks for the feedback! As well as for the purchases and readthroughs of the sample. Snow's in-depth analysis of the sample is especially appreciated. I'm surprised by the low rate of ebook adoption but I've run into it pretty much everywhere I've asked about this.

Regarding a couple of specific points:

My only ebook reader is my phone and assumed it only reads stuff off iTunes.

There's a free Kindle reader app for iOS devices, which is what I assume you have based on that post. I've never tried it since the only device I have that can run the app is my PC. ;)

If I could get it as a PDF for $5, or even a bit more, I would.  But... no Kindle, and although I could theoretically install the Amazon Dot Com Free Kindle Reader App, I don't much like single corporation DRM-locked platforms.  I read the sample, and it was all right?  But not really amazing, and it would take something pretty super special awesome to make me willing to spend money on a platform I philosophically oppose.

Amazon Kindle format is actually DRM-"optional," as far as I can tell the same as PDF. Except that due to the way Amazon structures providing review copies - and even an author copy! -, the DRM isn't an option anyone can sanely turn on. Either you turn it off or you don't get more than one copy yourself, which you have to pay for same as anyone else. It's kind of silly, but the long and short of it is that for a self-published author, Amazon Kindle is an enforced DRM free format.

Perfectly fair reason, though. If it didn't grab you, it didn't.

An...  eight tailed fox?  Did she lose one somewhere?

If she was a nine-tailed fox she'd be completely OP. ;)

Seriously, though, in Chinese folklore foxes get an additional tail and magical ability every hundred years, with the ability to take human form coming with the second tail. As an eight-tails Hsien is just short of the highest tier, and around 700 years old. It is explained during the story, but it's not a plot point per say.

I read the writing sample.  Chapter 2 was intriguing (Hong Kong just before the handover?  Sign me up), Chapter 3 didn't grab me, and Chapter 1 kicked over a few of my annoyances with some urban fantasy stories.  Aside from being an old fashioned let-me-read-a-real-book type, I doubt I'd read this even if I had the real book.  That isn't to discredit the book, just that with so many books and so little time, there's little reason not to read my fantasy from the very best, rather than what is likely a decent & competent stab in a sea of other "pretty good" books.  Keep at it, the only way you get better is to keep writing of course.

"Decent & competent" is pretty much the limit of what I would ever aspire to. This being my ninth novel and the product of over ten years of full-time writing, a mix of paid and otherwise, I doubt I'll show much improvement over that level, nor did I ever particularly expect to.

Sentence structure isn't what I'd complain about, though!  You know how to turn a phrase, which is good, since this isn't something easily taught.  It was more what this art was used for.  The main thing that set off alarm bells for me is the feel of Hsien's snidely unstoppableness.  Third person limited naturally tends to write as if touched by the point of view of the main character, so this isn't necessarily as big of a worry as if this was in fact the perfect narrator declaring her awesomeness; this could simply reflect her arrogance.  Still, I'd have to hope she's in for a big come-down in the middle of the book where she finds out she isn't all that.  There's a reason the country bumpkin forced to save the world is so common as to be almost cliche; they are naive, outgunned, fallible, and don't know the traps waiting for them, so they're in for a rough ride where they're constantly the underdog.  As you amp up the power of your protagonist, they have to go up against huger and huger threats to keep things interesting; Paul Atreidies is going to have to fight an entire galactic army or something to have a fair fight.  I mean, it's a balancing act of course, if you want her established as a competent magic thief then fine; it just seems like it's going to be hard to sell me on her losing to something other than "bigger magic" when she has haxy escape-to-the-sprit-world-with-loot powers.  (and yes, I know that the end of Chapter 1 implied she was in Big Trouble until she was rescued by the fairie bridge, but I didn't really feel why.  Maybe too much to ask for in a limited space, I suppose.)

I think your instincts were right on this one, and this would probably apply to anything I write. Competent, powerful protagonists are the only thing I'm interested in either writing or reading about. Fantasy farmboys and hapless harem anime leads are the surest way to make me close a book or turn off a show.

Of course, I'd like to think that I also provide threats adequate to challenge those competent, powerful protagonists (or to put them out of their element so their competence and power don't matter), but I also recognize not everybody likes that type of lead to begin with.

Once again, thanks for the feedback, and I hope those of you who did decide to buy the book enjoy it when you get the time to read it.
Read my webnovel, Eye Opener, now available on RoyalRoad.

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2012, 01:28:08 AM »
Eh not a fan of grabbing an app to do a thing that you can do in a direct market, but might give it a spin (and yeah would be reading it on my phone).

Can't be any worse than many things I read on the rare chances I do get around to to reading these days (Guild Wars Novels being the last thing).
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Lady Door

  • Coming up with words is, like...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
  • ... really hard.
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 05:36:39 AM »
Unlike (apparently) everyone else, I do own a Kindle! I use it, too, especially for books that are risks -- author I'm unfamiliar with, genre I don't normally read, something I know I'll blow through in a couple hours -- or are essentially penny novels.

I am incredibly influenced by the other things I'm reading when I pass judgment on a novel, and wouldn't you know it I actually happen to be reading another fantasy-ish novel with a supernatural thief of sorts! You compare favorably against that one.

I would (and will) happily pay $2.99 for a book like what I sampled. It is what I consider a "fun" purchase: I'm not interested in technical prowess, just an entertaining read. I will also do so because, hey, a DLer who writes! But that's truly secondary.

For what it's worth, I thought the hook at the end of Chapter 1 or Chapter 2 was a lot stronger than the end of Chapter 3, but YMMV and all that. More thoughts when I finish it, which could be anywhere from tomorrow to six months from now given my reading habits.
<Demedais> Humans look like cars to me.
<AndrewRogue> That must be confusing in parking lots

Bobbin Cranbud

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
    • The Writing of Joshua Cole
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2012, 08:49:22 AM »
Unlike (apparently) everyone else, I do own a Kindle! I use it, too, especially for books that are risks -- author I'm unfamiliar with, genre I don't normally read, something I know I'll blow through in a couple hours -- or are essentially penny novels.

I am incredibly influenced by the other things I'm reading when I pass judgment on a novel, and wouldn't you know it I actually happen to be reading another fantasy-ish novel with a supernatural thief of sorts! You compare favorably against that one.

I would (and will) happily pay $2.99 for a book like what I sampled. It is what I consider a "fun" purchase: I'm not interested in technical prowess, just an entertaining read. I will also do so because, hey, a DLer who writes! But that's truly secondary.

For what it's worth, I thought the hook at the end of Chapter 1 or Chapter 2 was a lot stronger than the end of Chapter 3, but YMMV and all that. More thoughts when I finish it, which could be anywhere from tomorrow to six months from now given my reading habits.

Glad to hear it, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the story! ^_^

Regarding the hook at the end of Chapter 3 - that's because that is not, in fact, the end of Chapter 3. I have little control over what Amazon decides to use as a writing sample, and unfortunately it extends a certain number of pages rather than to a point I specified.

Do you like the Kindle reading experience? I've been thinking of trying to pick one up on the cheap, especially since the local libraries offer a decent selection of ebooks.
Read my webnovel, Eye Opener, now available on RoyalRoad.

Lady Door

  • Coming up with words is, like...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
  • ... really hard.
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2012, 10:33:44 PM »
Huh. Did not know that, but that certainly explains it!

I love my Kindle. I still buy paper books, especially when they're by a favorite author, but for books I just want to read, not to have? Easiest (and often cheapest) to just use the Kindle. Plus I also have Amazon Prime, which means I get to borrow one retail book for free every month. And my local library has an ebook service, so I get to borrow books all the time. The world's still catching up with ebooks, but it's catching up FAST -- I just bought the Humble eBook Bundle, for example!

I don't currently use it, but you could easily get magazine and newspaper subscriptions sent to the Kindle, too, which frees up a lot of paper clutter. Especially if you're like me and don't get around to reading said magazines for quite some time.

I love the Fire, but I wouldn't've bought it for myself. I was actually really looking forward to having the e-ink. Ah well.
<Demedais> Humans look like cars to me.
<AndrewRogue> That must be confusing in parking lots

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: Fox Who Stole Hong Kong Reactions
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 03:11:46 PM »
Sentence structure isn't what I'd complain about, though!  You know how to turn a phrase, which is good, since this isn't something easily taught.  It was more what this art was used for.  The main thing that set off alarm bells for me is the feel of Hsien's snidely unstoppableness.  Third person limited naturally tends to write as if touched by the point of view of the main character, so this isn't necessarily as big of a worry as if this was in fact the perfect narrator declaring her awesomeness; this could simply reflect her arrogance.  Still, I'd have to hope she's in for a big come-down in the middle of the book where she finds out she isn't all that.  There's a reason the country bumpkin forced to save the world is so common as to be almost cliche; they are naive, outgunned, fallible, and don't know the traps waiting for them, so they're in for a rough ride where they're constantly the underdog.  As you amp up the power of your protagonist, they have to go up against huger and huger threats to keep things interesting; Paul Atreidies is going to have to fight an entire galactic army or something to have a fair fight.  I mean, it's a balancing act of course, if you want her established as a competent magic thief then fine; it just seems like it's going to be hard to sell me on her losing to something other than "bigger magic" when she has haxy escape-to-the-sprit-world-with-loot powers.  (and yes, I know that the end of Chapter 1 implied she was in Big Trouble until she was rescued by the fairie bridge, but I didn't really feel why.  Maybe too much to ask for in a limited space, I suppose.)

I think your instincts were right on this one, and this would probably apply to anything I write. Competent, powerful protagonists are the only thing I'm interested in either writing or reading about. Fantasy farmboys and hapless harem anime leads are the surest way to make me close a book or turn off a show.

Of course, I'd like to think that I also provide threats adequate to challenge those competent, powerful protagonists (or to put them out of their element so their competence and power don't matter), but I also recognize not everybody likes that type of lead to begin with.

Well...a lot of fantasy manages to kind-of do both.  In Star Wars, for instance, you're immediately introduced to this badass Obi Wan Kanobi, and he does badass stuff.  At the same time, the perspective character is Luke, who starts out a country bumpkin (but eventually heads towards badass territory).  And you can sort of put yourself in his shoes as he trains to become a badass, but you also gain the greater relateability of "I could do that too with that same training; maybe I have undiscovered Jedi powers".  But at no point is there really a lack of a competent character.

Then again, stuff like James Bond and Sherlock Holmes remains popular, so obviously you don't need to do a country bumpkin hero just to achieve popularity.  And there's always the Dragonball Z approach of "I may have power level 1000, but that guy is over nine thousand!"

I think the things to be careful of with a powerful protagonist are relateability of the protagonist, and the human nature to cheer for the underdog.