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Author Topic: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)  (Read 17688 times)

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2008, 08:29:08 PM »
I wasn't even considering factoring Neku into the damage average since he works in such a different way and he breaks the average so bad. I considered it like FF4 where the temps get a different average from the mains. If I factor Neku into the average (who can do unlimited combos with the right pin setups), everyone else probably drops down to Light thanks to Evil Gaia level damage. I mean if TWEWY was up for ranking (never gonna happen), he'd be a definite DNR.

Edit: Don't yell at me about how Neku not being in the damage average is bad or something, I was planning on two averages damnit. Stop yelling at me! ;_;
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 08:36:11 PM by RadLink5 »

Talaysen

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2008, 08:51:42 PM »
I wasn't even considering factoring Neku into the damage average since he works in such a different way and he breaks the average so bad. I considered it like FF4 where the temps get a different average from the mains. If I factor Neku into the average (who can do unlimited combos with the right pin setups), everyone else probably drops down to Light thanks to Evil Gaia level damage. I mean if TWEWY was up for ranking (never gonna happen), he'd be a definite DNR.

Neku working different is a valid point, but I definitely don't think it's enough.  See: Ar tonelico Reyvateils, for example.  They don't even have turns!  But they still are factored into the averages.

Breaking the curve also isn't really a good reason.  Joshua wrecks the HP curve and he's still factored in there.  >.>  Yuri wrecks the SH1 damage curve, etc.  He's also not a temp, so the FF4 argument doesn't work (though Joshua and Shiki are temps, so they supposedly wouldn't get factored against Neku endgame damage, just his damage at the end of those chapters, which is relatively mild IIRC).

As for the unlimited combo?  You wouldn't factor in Neku as infinite damage, no.  Just determine how much damage he'd do in about the same time as one of the partners does their combo, and use that damage.  In that case, he shouldn't drop everyone down to Light, though they'll probably still suffer from it.

Edit: Don't yell at me about how Neku not being in the damage average is bad or something, I was planning on two averages damnit. Stop yelling at me! ;_;

I'm not yelling at you (anymore, at least, I admit I was a little too harsh earlier and I apologize).  Just explaining why Neku should be in the averages and not be ignored.  He is an (the most) important part of  the PC cast, and leaving him out just to make the rest of the cast look better is misleading.

And if you want to do two damage averages, that's fine.  While I obviously really really disagree with using a Neku-less average, I can't force you or anyone else to use it, but a stat topic should take in account not only the creator's views, but other common views as well so that everyone (or at least most people) in the DL can look at it and figure out how they view the characters.  This is especially important if the characters are used in RPGmon, which means people who haven't played the game have to somehow view the characters off of stats and descriptions alone to know how to fight/ref them.

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2008, 08:59:35 PM »
Well that's at least more tame. Neku in the time it takes a partner to do their combo is really not that high damage-wise. (though by the current damage average it's still a high OHKO). I'll see if I can use the damage formula to get his damages now instead of making him wait for bosses.

Edit: Yup, there we go, Neku's up and fairly kickass even without the infinite comboing.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 10:15:26 PM by RadLink5 »

Niu

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2008, 01:55:13 AM »
I agree using two damage. Since in order to keep the average sane, we must ban Neku of his combos, which si completly no fair as the game has a aerial combo system built in specific for him which gives Neku bonus exp the longer he keep his combo going. But if you factor in Neku's damage, WITHOUT infinite looping or any after game equip, a Futsunomitama based combo set initiated with Lolita Bat deals at least.... what, 3000+ damage even if Neku has 0 atk.

It is either unfairly ban Neku of his combo, or make the rest of the cast light if you allow the combo. i am more incline to call Neku a Bluelike and leave him out all together.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:06:04 AM by Niu »

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2008, 02:11:32 AM »
I'm actually ok just banning his combo. After all, the partners complete one turn in the time it takes Neku to completely use up one pin, so why not just allow him to work like that?

Bardiche

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2008, 02:20:22 AM »
Question: how many casual voters will consider that Neku's apparent "Bluelike" combo has been banned? How would you ensure the voting public knows of this? I'm not sure what "Bluelike" is supposed to be, but I assume it is a nigh-undefeatable character or a character with too large a potential to be properly graded and judged?

Anyway, I was just reading along this thread and realized that "banning a combo" seems silly unless you intend to put, "Neku can't use his combo's at all!" in the RPGDL flavor texts.

Niu

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2008, 02:21:02 AM »
The term Bluelike is based off Blue from SaGa Frontier, who is known his overdrive loop that can make him outright unbeatable on so many account and thus can not be ranked.

I'm actually ok just banning his combo. After all, the partners complete one turn in the time it takes Neku to completely use up one pin, so why not just allow him to work like that?
That is not the part I am having problem with. But rather, banning Neku combos is bypassing a built in battle system.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:24:26 AM by Niu »

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2008, 02:27:49 AM »
True, let's just not ever use Neku, most casual voters would just let him do his ridiculous combos and make him a ridiculous Bluelike.

This makes Beat happy anyway.

Talaysen

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2008, 03:08:50 AM »
Ugh.

We're not banning Neku's combo.  What we're doing is comparing Neku's damage output in one "turn" to the rest of the cast.  This equates to about as long as a partner takes to use a combo.

Look at it this way.  In a normal turn based game, what if there was someone who while doing damage could force the opponent to not get a turn, perhaps by some unresistable (even by bosses) status.  This person would then get infinite turns compared to the opponent, but his damage output per turn wouldn't be infinite.  This is essentially the same thing, just in action-RPG form.

Blue is a good example.  He has initiative, can do damage, and stops the enemies from getting turns.  His damage output per turn isn't infinite, he deals a finite number of damage.  This is what we use for his damage in the average.  There's no reason to leave him out of the average, and there's no reason to not let him do the loop.  There's no problem with this.

dude789

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2008, 03:36:02 AM »
You may want to mention that Black Mercury creates non-moving orbs of water and that Black Saturn is a barrier. I don't think you can put the orbs right on the enemy and the barrier only affects the area right by Neku. I wouldn't see them as a direct attack. Maybe something that is activated when a character uses a non-ranged physical attack. They're more like Nina 5's traps Alfina's holy circle than a direct attack.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 03:39:14 AM by dude789 »

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2008, 03:39:32 AM »
1) Letting Neku do his entire combo would require extending what I'm assuming as a "turn" so that the partners would get like four combos in. I give up on trying to interpret Neku, you tell me if that works or not.

2) You can put the orbs of water right on the enemy and in fact that's like the only way it's going to hit most enemies. I know because I do it all the time to waste stuff.

dude789

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2008, 04:00:19 AM »
"Touch empty space to create a stationary orb of water. Orbs rebound on contact."

Most enemies move enough to run into them, and surrounding the enemy with them works well, but I wasn't able to place the orbs right on the enemy. I can see allowing them, but others might want to see how the attack works and decide for themselves.

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2008, 04:04:04 AM »
Try it yourself, the "Touch empty space" pins let you just touch the enemy too.

Niu

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2008, 04:09:32 AM »
Yes water bubble can be put on enemies, better yet, putting on a enemy while falling down, extra damage if you get the direction right......

Look at it this way.  In a normal turn based game, what if there was someone who while doing damage could force the opponent to not get a turn, perhaps by some unresistable (even by bosses) status.  This person would then get infinite turns compared to the opponent, but his damage output per turn wouldn't be infinite.  This is essentially the same thing, just in action-RPG form.

If this is going to be applied, we have to redo all Tales topic and base them off how long the combo takes rather than actual sequence. And mages well suddenly not suck as much as now we are counting damage per time frame.

Plus, how do you distinguish a turn for the game? When Joshua needs at least to hit 6 panels for his better finisher, and can go afford to hit over 15 panels. While Beat has to hits panels fast or else he eats hp penalty especially it is slug fest. What is to call a "turn" here anyway?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 04:15:06 AM by Niu »

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2008, 04:30:05 AM »
The combos I listed for the partners are all just about the same length unless you input buttons really slowly because you suck at playing this game.

I have no idea what counts as a turn if we're taking Neku into account, but just going by the PCs, it'd be about one combo which, again, are all within a few hundredths of a second from each other (at least given the damages I listed).

Talaysen

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2008, 05:58:20 AM »
1) Letting Neku do his entire combo would require extending what I'm assuming as a "turn" so that the partners would get like four combos in. I give up on trying to interpret Neku, you tell me if that works or not.

Well, you can always just consider four partner combos as one "turn" in that case.  Turns in ARPGs are arbitrary anyways.  Honestly I think what you have now is close enough.

If this is going to be applied, we have to redo all Tales topic and base them off how long the combo takes rather than actual sequence. And mages well suddenly not suck as much as now we are counting damage per time frame.

Plus, how do you distinguish a turn for the game? When Joshua needs at least to hit 6 panels for his better finisher, and can go afford to hit over 15 panels. While Beat has to hits panels fast or else he eats hp penalty especially it is slug fest. What is to call a "turn" here anyway?

Well, I'd agree with taking damage per time frame for Tales too.  It makes more sense than anything else, really.  But since combo sequences have explicit endings, using a whole combo for a turn is much, much easier.  In Neku's case?  His damage never ends.  There is no ending.  So we can't use that.

Seemed to me like partner combos seemed to always take about the same length.  However if you really wanted to?  Base their speed on how long they take to finish a combo and their damage on a full combo.  You can do this for Tales systems too.

Niu

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2008, 09:20:04 AM »
4 partner combo=one turn has a slight problem. As not every combo can be optimized. As partner combo can be interrupted. Especially Joshua's whose aerial laser does not break enemy stance when they hit. Assuming there is a 4 uninterrupted combo to count them as one turn.... felt somewhat unrealistic.

Gah, they more I try to figure this out, they more I want to throw Neku out for the sake of rankability.... This is as bad as Minato....

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2008, 09:54:41 PM »
The last hit of Joshua's combo does cause knockback (especially the more powerful of the two beam attacks). And yes, that's what I've been trying to say, Neku works way too differently from everyone else. His part of the battle plays like a Kingdom Hearts game, and the partner's part plays more like an ATB based Final Fantasy.

Edit: So testing Joshua's "Jesus Beam" (as people are calling it) made me realize I have the damage off for it. I thought the finisher only hit twice, but it actually hits three times, which changes the attack's multiplier from 13 to 18. No, that doesn't as big of a difference as it sounds like. He still only 2HKOs (albeit much harder, he one hit kills anyone with 0.75xPCHP by partner average), and this isn't even a huge deal for Beat who doesn't stop 3HKOing. It's only really a big deal for Shiki. She now 6HKOs in the partner-only average (7HKOs in the Neku average). Joshua looks a little better, Shiki looks a lot worse.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 01:55:33 PM by RadLink5 »

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (w/ Post Game Equips & Bosses)
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2008, 03:27:24 PM »
Non-post game equips are now up! (third post) Everyone gains a little tankiness except Joshua who loses all of his, Shiki's damage actually gets a bit worse and begins to border Puny territory, Joshua maintains his high damage and is thus still a Heavy, Beat thanks the DL Gods for the more balanced defense average and for Shiki's damage getting worse as he now upgrades to Middle, Neku just becomes more of a pain in the ass for me.

Niu

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Re: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2008, 11:34:28 PM »
Wait no, the finisher indeed hits only two times. There is no mistake in that.

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2008, 12:41:45 AM »
The Angelic Spear thing definitely hits three times. I'm doing it right now, it hits as the spears appear, then again after about half-a-second, and then one more time as the spears disappear. I'm testing it on random Noise and on bosses and I get the same thing every time, three hits.

Niu

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Re: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2008, 02:31:40 AM »
Crap, guess Joshua is a lot better than I thought....

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2008, 02:58:35 AM »
It doesn't make a difference if you allow Angel Feather. Even with Angel Feather he can't manage 2.5 the damage average for an OHKO, but in the no post game equips average the third hit takes him from right below Beat to about 1.5xBeat.

RadLink5

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Re: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2008, 03:24:41 PM »
(Niu's old JP version stat topic, since I used it as a reference and is currently stuck on the doomed board)

The English port isn't coming by far until next year. But apparently I love this thing too much, so here goes the state topic.

Starting Notes:

This game makes you fight in two screen at the same time. Both enemies and PCs share a same pool of hp for the battle on both upper and lower screen. The damage is also the cumlative total on both screen. So whether to evaluate damage and durability by individual screens or count them together is up to you. The main always fight at the bottom and the teammates always fight at the top.

Second, level up does not increase state (only icrease HP and brave). While your equipments constitue most of the states in game. Permenant state growth is only avaliable through eating, which takes a long time unless you abuse the in game timer (which I discount for a normal game). Equipments are all universal, everyone can equip them as long as they have enough brave (which increases as you level up). But certain equips has special effects if only wear by certain character, I assign those as unique equips.

Character States:

PC states are taken in early after game.

Hp: 4000 (Kinda irrelevant, as everyone shares the same pool)

Sakuraba Neku


Atk: 57
Def: 61
Hp+302

Equips
Rider’s Jacket: A+10 H+53 (A+5)
Haniya: D+6 H+29 (A+3)
Awan: D+11 H+38 (D+5)
My Headphone: A+22 D+22 H+150 (All up)

Techs:

Neku fights by using 6 out of 304 possible badges, giving him a huge selection of skills. Certain combination sets gives additional efect, but only one is relevenat in the duel. All badges has a certain amount of charges, once used up, it'll undergo a certain amount of reboot time before it can be used again. Some badges also have boot time before it can be used.

Black Star Set: (3x damage special set, all badges reboot in 3 seconds)

Black Mars: 192x16=3072 (50% adds hp leak)
Black Jupiter: 274x8=2192
Black Uranus: 549 (adds up lifting)
Black Venus: 137x12=1644 (10% Def down per hit))
Black Saturn: 192x18=3456/Heal 40x18=720 (Creates an invincible barrier for 8 seconds, the barrier damages and heals at the same time if enemy touches it.)
Black Mercury: 356x5=1780
Full Aerial Combo: (Mars-Uranus-Jupiter-Venus)=3072+549+2192+1644=7457
This set is pure damage, completly breaking ythe damage curve.

Set 1:

Boomer:
Flash Line:
Tigeris:
Velocity Tackle:
Lolita Bat:
Royal Queen:
Full Aerial Combo: Damage and reboot time is irrelevant, once combo start, it won’t stop until the enemy dies.
All badges in this set adds up lifting effect, which: 1. makes infinite combo possible, 2. breaks invincible frame. Works on any enemy on the list except: 1. fliers, 2. Extremly heavy enemy (At least heavier than dragon type).

Set 2:

Cancer: 27x4=108 (Creates a invinicble barrier for 7 seconds, damges if touched by enemy.) Reboot in 8 seconds
Pichipich Barrier: 240x16=3880 (Creates a invinicble barrier for 7.5 seconds and consatantly heal during the time.) Reboot in 38 seconds
Black Saturn: 39x18=1152/Heal 40x18=720 (Creates an invincible barrier for 8 seconds, the barrier damages and heals at the same time if enemy touches it.) Reboot in 3 seconds.
Cat Left:
Cat Right:
Cat Brain: When Cat sets are assembled, reboot time is cut down by 40% and no boot time.
Full Aerial Combo: Impossible, this is a full tanking set. It has super long invinci frame+healing and shortened reboot time. Can tank even healers.

Ranking: Bluelike do not rank. KH team is obessed in making their uber main as ever. insane skillset makes him almost impossible to beat. It is either insane damage or infinite combo or undying tank. The only way to kill him is to go before him and ID or OHKO him.


Misaki Shiki


Atk: 47
Def: 68
Hp+192

Equipment:

Nyantan Custume: A+22 D+22 H-113 (Resist stance break)
Deni Miniskirt: D+9 H+60 (d+2)
Ni-Highboots: D+12 (A+2)
Her Doll: A+12 D+12 H+245

Skills:

Ground Combo: 282
Air Combo: 376
Guard: Block against all ground attacks

Ranking: Light But has pretty high Def, thus probably a winning one.

Kiryu Yosha (Joshua)

Atk: 35
Def: 41
Hp+161


Equipments:

Celebrity Gentle: A+8 D+8 H+150 (A+3)
Trod Boots: D+20 H+20 (H+40)
Simple Necktie: A+2 D+3 H+5 or Angel Feather: A-24 H+600
Ashime Cutsaw: A+11 D-1 H-9

Techs:

Vending Machine: 175
Car: 245
Lock On Laser Combo 1: 210
Lock On Laser Combo 2: 455
Cell Phone Camera: 100% Paralyze
Sway: Evade a singal hit of ground attack.

Ranking: Middle, due to lack of good unqiue equips, Joshua suffer from poor states, pity his high attack multipliers (a different story if you allow universals). But having accurate status helps somewhat (and last saving grace). Can option Angel Feather for some tankiness, but that kills his atk so much that it isn't a fair trade. Simply doesn't translate well into DL.


Betou Daisukenojyou (Beat)


Atk: 53 (81)
Def: 51 (21)
Hp+338 (188)

Equipments:

Work Wear: A+7 D+6 H+23 (H+70)
Tiger Rider’s Vest: A+13 H+57
Your Cap: A+34 H+95
Sister’s Pendant: A-12 D+34 H+150 (Regen 4)
or
King Pendant: A+12 D+4 (A+4)

Techs:

Ground Combo: 477 (729)
Aerial Combo: 636 (972)
Guard: Blocks groud attacks

Ranking: Heavy Beat is the only party memeber that has some good damage other than Neku. Is also fairly tanky. Can also trade in defence for even more atk if aim for a quick 2HKO.


Bosses

Bosses has two Def, melee and range, with 100% being the average.


Higashizawa Youdai


Hp 8000
Atk 100
Melee Def 100%
Range Def 100%
Stance break immune

Party hp: 1200

Breath: Null all attacks
Attacks avaliable until 75% hp
Thunder Ball: ~120 (Both up and bottom)
Attacks avaliable after 75% hp
Thunder Ball: 30x0~5=0~150 (Bottom) 30x3~5=90~150 (top)
Thunder Bolt: 45x3=135 (Bottom only, 100% paralyze, always combo with Thunder Ball)
Fist 1: 70 (Both up and down)
Fist 2: 40x2=80 (Bottom only)
Fist 3: 130 (Bottom only)

Combo:
Thunder Ball-Thunder Bolt: 135~285 (bottom) + 150 (top)= ~435
Fist3 or 2-Fist1x2~3: 220~340

Ranking: Low Heavy First, despite looking tanky with that 8000hp, he isn't that durable due to being a huge traget and can't move. So his durability is above average at best. Best combo at optimize damage is rouhgly 3HKO, but the hurting comes from the Paralyze. And can slug through somefights with hp, dies to healer though, badly.


Yashiro Utsuki


Party Hp: 3000

Hp 5500
Atk 85
Melee Def 100%
Range Def 100%
Stance break immuned
Can Teleport

Damage after def down is in ()
Ice Bullet: 6(25)x4 (Bottom) + 13(32)x4 (Top)
Ice Flower: 23 (52) (Bottom) + 34 (67) (Top)
Flower Bullet: 4(14)x6 + 9(20)x6 (Bottom) + 4(18)x6 + 6(27)x6
Healing: 846

Ranking: High Light Evasive whore who totally relies on her teleport+stance break immunity trick. Damage is completly pathetic before Def down and still sad with it on. Healing is passable combined with her evasiveness. But the damage just doesn't cut it.


Kariya Kouki


Hp 6000
Atk 90
Melee Def 100%
Range Def 100%
Stance break immunity

Party Hp: 3150

Charge Shot: 107 (Bottom) + 165 (Up)
Machien Gun: 14x6 (10% paralyze, Bottom) + 20x3 (Up)
Wheel: 6x6 (ToP) + 11x6 (Bottom)
Spark Point: 12xrandom (Bottom only)

Ranking: Puny Yashiro with worse damage and not even half as evasive? This is very very sad.

Obje Shinigami (Minamimoto Shu)


Forbidden Form
Hp 5926
Atk250
Melee Def 100%
Range Def 100%
Regen: 33hp ever 2 second
Forbidden Property: Universally reduce the product of all damage taken to the 25% of the original.
Zetaoseii!!: Auto evade whenever touched by the touch pen. (This tranbslates to auto evade of 99% of melee tech and 50% of the range techs, bottom only)
Stance break immuned
Can teleport

Party Hp: 3200

SINE: 45x2 (Bottom) 50x2 (Top)
CONSINE: 45x~2 (Bottom Only)
TANGENT: 45x~7 (Bottom) 50x~4+75x~3 (Top)

Combo:
SINE-COSINE= ~375

Ranking: High Heavy 4HKO damage, so so HP but never gets hurt and never gets hit. The only penetaration to his damage reduction does not exists in DL, his auto evade is sub Belial, AND he can teleport right out of your attack even after getting hit like Yashiro does. An insane slugger from hell that can tank up to heavy with ease and spoils a few godlike.


Iron Mask (Konishi Mitsuki)


Hp 6000
Atk 70
Melee Def 100%
Range Def 100%

Split Body 5 (Bottom) 35 (Top)

Ranking: DNR No, not because of her being puny, but she simply is undefeatable in duel setting due to the nature of her fight.


Gura san (Kitaniji Megumi)


Hp 10000
Atk 100
Melee Def 100%
Range Def 100%
Stance Break immuned
He fights in bottom only (It is a controlled Shiki at the top with 75 damage that adds 100% Atk down)

Fire Ball: 0
Slasher Orb: 0
Route Laser: 104
Arm Bite: 254

Ranking: Light The uber equip given to you before his fight completly raped his offence. Poor Megumi, he can have a really good fight if not for it.

Taishyr

  • Guest
Re: The World Ends With You (PCs & Bosses)
« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2008, 02:14:02 PM »
Alright. One other thing I feel should be addressed in this topic is the nature of attacks. There are two primary types: melee (Neku's slashing/jabbing/etc pins fall under this) and range (anything -not- melee, pretty much). A third exists, which I'll get to later; it has its own issues. Arguably, the two can be defined as physical/magical, with the third as non-typed abilities. I'll explain the three sets of attacks here. (Aside from the attack pins, there are support pins and healing pins, neither of which really have a "typing".)

Melee: Also the "positive" type, if I recall correctly. The only attack that doesn't fit completely into this is the Earthquake-psych pins, which could be argued as earth or MT physical. I prefer the latter interp, personally. I think fliers still immune it, though?

Ranged/Magic: The "negative" type. This has all the distance attacks of varying sorts; it really does kinda fit the traditional SE magic style, just under a different name. Arguably a lot of these are elemental. The one type that kinda looks like a melee attack is the Patrol Rounds, which looks like a boomerang.

Third Type: Hesitantly, I label this one non-typed abilities. Why? Well, here's a general list of what's in it:

Neku's Psychokinesis pins (pick up an object or opponent; ram it into another object or opponent)
Neku's Proximity Mine pins (opponent takes damage when they contact it)
The Field Of War Pins (these function funny, but the damage is non-typed)
???Neku's Spoiler Pin???
Shiki's attacks
Joshua's attacks
Beat's attacks

In other words, -all three partners have this typing-.

Thus, they are different from both physical attacks (Beat's attacks is tackling the opponent with a skateboard, Shiki has her cat whack things) and magic (Joshua gets JESU BEAMU and Psychokinesis-style attacks). Neku really only cares about this if Spoilers pin is really non-typed, as the Field of War pins are impractical, he's got no objects for Psychokinesis in a duel (except against Belial?!) and Proximity Mines is iffy. However, the other three really like this concept, it must be admitted.

(This -is- reflected in game by the frog enemies, who absorb either physicals or magicals at later points; your ally has no issues killing them. Unless he's Joshua, in which case he has only very small issues. He doesn't like getting hit out of the air.)

If you want to consider them to be either just pos/neg attacks that ignore any resistance or something, here's alternate interpretations based on animation:

Shiki: Ranged physical.
Joshua: Ranged physical or holy magic.
Beat: Melee physical.

(All three run off the Attack stat, however; indeed, all attacks run off the Attack stat. Thus why Purugly foils Shiki.)

Enemy attacks are not distinguishable in this manner and can only be "typed" by animations.

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I got bored during Econ, so here's another set: a list of pin elements by animation.

Skipped support/healing/non-typed pins. WARNING: this was done by memory of animations; if there's an animation in the wrong position, tell me. I only used numbers because seriously fuck writing it all out. My reference for the numbers is http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/Pin_List_G . And remember, they're just split into pos/neg OR phys/mag ingame.

Slash
071, 081, 082, 083, 084, 085, 086, 098, 144, 145, 233, 267
Axecleave/Slash
197, 198, 199, 294
Pierce/Thrust
087, 088, 089, 090, 091, 092, 097,  142, 143, 169, 170,  278
JUMP ELEMENT
093, 094, 095, 096, 200, 201
Fighting/Brawl
139, 140, 234, 235, 303
MT Physical/Earth - Tonfa says he remembers most bosses immuning this, so it's an Earth-element MT physical that doesn't hit bosses or something fucked up.
005, 244, 296

Ice
001, 002, 003, 004, 105, 106, 111, 112, 243, 272, 280
Lightning
060, 061, 074, 075, 113, 114, 115, 138, 154, 162, 163, 164, 171, 172, 173, 180, 181, 185, 186, 187, 188, 240, 241, 271, 282, 285
Fire
062, 063, 064, 069, 099, 109, 110, 124, 155, 156, 157, 158, 230, 237, 238, 266, 292, 298, 301
Fire/Explosion (039 is a Neutral pin: the proximity mine.)
039*, 070, 141, 194, 195, 196, 242, 276, 295
Wind
035, 289
Water
065, 066, 067, 182, 304
Holy
068, 107, 108
Dark
126, 217
Laser
207+208, 245, 299
"Energy"/"Force"/"Shot"/"Samus" element. Field of War is non-typed, but looks visually much like some of these pins.
012, 013, 014, 015, 016, 017, 018, 019, 020, 021, 022, 023, 024, 025, 026, 027, 028, 029, 030: 151, 152, 153, 166, 167, 168, 183, 184, 231, 232, 269, 279, 281, 288, 290, 293, *Field of War/Irregular Note pins
"Shockwave" (could be argued as Wind/Force, but not the same force as "Force".)
077, 100, 146, 174, 302
Gravity/ID
121, 122, 123, 283
No clue. Trap element? (>_>)
031, 032, 033
Earth/meteor/space/nontyped (is like FF's Comet/Meteo attacks, somewhat).
040, 041, 042, 073, 175, 202, 203, 204, 277, 286

Uniques:
104: Earth
213: Fire/Dark
214: Lightning/Dark
215: Ice/Dark
216: Force/Dark
218: Water/Dark
262: SQUIRREL ELEMENT
287: Ice/Force, I think?

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Also, Beat's aftergame equips deserve one slight clarification. While it is an obvious plot claim (was his sister's, he had it and dropped it, Neku picked it up and gave it back to Beat), its ability, contrary to the first post, is activated when anyone wears it. Your call on this.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 04:17:27 PM by Taishyr »