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Author Topic: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)  (Read 44025 times)

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #175 on: August 24, 2009, 01:23:01 AM »
WA4

Disclaimor: I liked Brionac a lot as a whole. It was a big change from previous WA games, as well as most RPGs in general that it felt like from the beginning I was going up against a team of super-villains, complete with various superpowers. Just felt very... nonstandard for JRPGs, and the novelty really kept me interested as each new super-villain was thrown at me, thinking to myself 'Oooh, I wonder what power THIS one is going to have!?'. As a result, I tended to like Brionac members based on just how cool their power was more than anything about their personalities (what little of THAT existed for each of them anyway... Augst aside). Still, worked well as a threatening group, even if the individual members ended up a bit more lackluster.
Jeremy - 5. Power is eh (he's just good with weaponry, right? I hardly remember except for his 'infected by evil power' form). But he's the first one you come up against and he sets the standard for other Brionac members to be weighed against. Good presentation in that sense. He didn't really need to come back, but it worked for his style anyway, unlike a lot of recurring villain types.
Scythe - 6. He and Belial worked well together as a creepy villain couple, and being the second batch of villains you fight (not to mention being relatively threatening and WA2 shout-out hype) they really worked to set the stage for some amazing fights. When you find out the actual source of Scythe's powers, it adds some interesting depth to character that I really wasn't expecting, and somehow managed to make the couple even creepier.
Belial - 9. Seemed like another WA shout-out, I still hypothesize that she's some kind of left over Metal Demon or Homunculus. Fanwank aside, she was really stylish and truly threatening. Really got me excited about future Brionac challenges.
Lambda - 6. Overall, I liked his execution as leader of the team of super-villains (even though it was easier to think of him as a hero...). I also liked his power and how he used it. However, I can't rank him higher because by the time he really starts being more directly involved with the PCs, the whole 'what's the next superpower' thing was losing its novelty.
Gawn - 7. He reminds me entirely too much of my dad, so yeah, I instantly liked him and honestly felt betrayed when he turned out to be Lambda's buttbuddy. I don't know if I can defend this score objectively.
Hugo - 8. No, he doesn't deserve this score in a vacuum, but for what he was, and how he fit into the story's pacing, and for having a freakin' cool power/fight scene, he was awesome and stylish. You fight him shortly after the awesome Scythe/Belial duo and his power is extremely memorable, and it really kept up the momentum for interesting supervillainy even though his actual character worth was... barely there? He's got style but no real personality, so I can't rate him higher despite liking him more than this.
Balgaine - 6. Similar to Hugo, with an even more awesome weapon, but he comes in too late to make as much of an impression. Still really stylish. Note that in a vacuum (without taking Brionac's overall synergy into account), all of these scores would be lower by about 3-4 points. But I liked their team dynamic and think it deserves some credit.
Enil - 5. The team is losing its momentum by her appearance (partially due to losing most of its members and that really hurts the dynamic...). Gets these points for having a cool power (in plot scenes, though a fail gimmick in-game) and a cool hat.
Farmel - 5.5 because she was mostly just there, but I liked her more than Jeremy and Enil.
Tony - 1. Do not want. It's annoying that he was the first villain in the game, because I almost stopped playing because I hated his character so much.
Kresnik - 5. Deserves lower, but emo is funny sometimes.
Augst - 9. Yes. Genuinely entertaining to watch every time he was on screen. I kept wondering what his crazy superpower was going to be. Not having one ended up being the coolest part.
The Congressional Knights - 4. Overall, I like the evil council type, but they felt pretty extraneous when we had 12 villains with faces already... Xenogears did it better and SEELE did it first.
Fiore and Asia: 2. The low point of Brionac. Extraneous. Not even really part of Brionac, which angered me for some reason. Also, amaloli fetish puppets created by an invisible pedophile. Conceptual failure to the extreme. Nothing they could have done would have really helped. Apparently they fail so hard that Dune wiped them from his memory.
Hauser: 4. Another really major one that Dune forgot... I'm kind of curious how. Anyways, this is something that really -didn't- need to be treated as a plot twist... It's about as obvious as it can possibly be to the viewer that Hauser is Luke's father, but they tried to make a big deal out of it anyway... Lame and cliche, but not offensive enough to make me rate him lower, I suppose.

Wild Arms 5:

WA5 does not have the same 'team of villains' presence that WA1-4 had. It really suffers for it.
Nightburn - 5. Meh.
Persephone - 5. Meh. Boobs.
Fereydoon - 3. He really kind of offended me with his existence.
Kartikeya - 7. Psycho is good enough for this.
Elvis - 7. Awesome, it's been covered.
Volsung - 4. Not as offensive as Fereydoon, I suppose.
Ice Queen Avril - 8. High point of the game. After the fight with her, the rest of the villain cast starts failing it up harder...

Wild Arms XF:
Not finished, but ranking based on partial playtime anyway. XF brings back that awesome 'team of villains' presence that makes the WA series work at all.
Edna - 9. It's been said, but I think she fits the Algus clause better than Algus.
Weisheit - 6. Apparently (s)he fails it up later on, but overall sufficiently creepy.
Charlton - 9. Also awesome. Style alone could get him this far. Having something resembling competence helps, too.
Rupert - 8. Does his mercenary thing well. Points for not being a complete idiot about Clarissa.
Katrina - Hm. Spoiler. Oh well. Can't vote.
Eisen - I like him as an ally.
Chelle - Can't really vote here either.
Piedras - Or here.

So far I like XF's story, and from what I've read from other people's comments, the villain cast (mostly) holds up throughout. Need to get back to it.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 07:08:05 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

Cmdr_King

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #176 on: August 24, 2009, 01:42:01 AM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy- 4/10.  Eh, kinda a bum.
Scythe- 6/10.  Funny ending, but sort of a pretentious snot leading up to that.
Belial- 7/10.  Scary and hell from both a plot and gameplay standpoint. 
Lambda- 5/10.  Coulda been better, but not bad.
Gawn- 8/10. FALCON MISSILE PUUNNNCCHHH!
Hugo- 7/10.  This is also true of Belial, but I just liked how the party dealt with him.
Balgaine- 6/10.
Enil- 4/10.
Farmel- 3/10.  Bloody whore.
Tony- 4/10.
Kresnik- 4/10.
Augst- 7/10.
The Congressional Knights- ... hum.  0/10.  I have some reservations about WA4's story relative to what they could have done with it.  The Knights represent that in such a way that I think the game is worse for them existing.

Wild Arms 5:

Nightburn- 6/10.
Persephone- 5/10.
Fereydoon- 7/10.  Execution was sorely lacking, but I like this sort of character.  'sides, the scene between him and Cap'n Bart made me laugh.
Kartikeya- 4/10.
Elvis- 5/10.  I dunno, felt wasted.
Volsung- 3/10.

Wild Arms XF:

Edna- 6/10.  Well, she fails hilariously.  I'm not sure how to represent this as a score, since she's also a terrible villain, so... eh, slightly above average.
Weisheit- 5/10.  I like the concept, and the early scenes were good, and s/he worked in a few later scenes... but also really, really failed in some later scenes.  So, not thinking.
Charlton- 8/10.
Rupert- 7/10.
Katrina- Hum.  I feel like I should score on three axis here (Katrina as a character, the Clysmian as a character, and how the story between them played out) and I'm not sure where to balance it.  Katrina is kinda one dimensional and non-villainous, the Clysmian isn't a character so much as a very nasty, very threatening force of nature, but I love how the plot plays out.
So... 9/10.  I'll weight to the good stuff.
Eisen- 4/10.  Worked early, but so stupid.
Chelle- 4/10.  The flirting between her and Ragnar was the best part of either character, so points there I guess.
Piedras- 5/10.  Eh, what can I say, Elfboy made a good joke once and I find him funny enough to not fail now.
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Glen Veil

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #177 on: August 24, 2009, 01:56:39 AM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy - 4 Is there and not terrible
Scythe - 6 I thought his concept was unique, loses points to dieing to an airplane
Belial - 8 Is twisted and awesome
Lambda - 7 was decent as a leader
Gawn - DNR, really helped the team more then hindered them, didn't really contribute much in setting the world up for DOOM other then acting as a roadblock in the airport.
Hugo - 6 Awesome cutscene, not much else
Balgaine - 6 ANTI TANK CHAINSAW
Enil - 4 Cool power, fail battle
Farmel - 5 is there for Lambda and fanservice
Tony - 3 is there, not much else
Kresnik - DNR
Augst - 8 is cool
The Congressional Knights - 2, kind of saw it coming, rather anticlimatic

Wild Arms 5:

Nightburn - 1 is stupid, looks like he's about to kill Dean and then...doesn't? yeah, his sudden turn around made no sense to me.
Persephone - 2 just as stupid as Nightburn, with a terrible reason to fight to boot, but has boobs
Fereydoon - 1 PLEASE DIE IN A DITCH YOU TERRIBLE EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING
Kartikeya - 4 Only decent Villain in the whole WA5 cast, and then kills himself for some reason that doesn't make a whole lot of sense
Elvis - DNR, wasn't really that villainy and more there for comic relief
Volsung - 1 PILE OF FAIL
Quote
WA5 Writers: 10/10 Created WA5's Cast
seconding Lurker's notion only with a slight fix

Wild Arms XF:

Edna - 9 Is awesome, is genuinely out there only for herself, I loved hating her
Weisheit - 6 was cool, loses points for NOT DIEING
Charlton - 8 Is badass, the way he dies is awesome
Rupert - 6 shows signs of actual intelligence, is generally cool, but loses points for failing in a cutscene fight horribly then not in the next and kind of going back and forth that way
Katrina - 8 Is neat and stuff
Eisen - 1 Fails at everything
Chelle - 6 Was cool, lost 3 points for "RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT" spam, seriously, just use his first name or something for once.
Piedras - 3 Worm, not much else

074

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #178 on: August 24, 2009, 03:57:18 AM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy - 6.  Okay.  Most of Brionac could've benefitted from more screentime, or some culling, depending on who.  Jeremy, on the other hand, gets points for tenacity, and bribing me with a combination of rapid fire and artillery. (And to clarify for Djinn, his power is basically the ability to say "Fuck You" to Newton's third law, letting him use weaponry, that by all means should rip his arms out of his sockets with the recoil, without trouble at all)
Scythe - 6.  PLANE DEATH was worth a laugh, and he had a neat power.  His real use, though, was foreshadowing for...
Belial - 8.  Psycho with a very legitimate reason for wanting to kill the heroes.  Psycho with awesome power, and awesome applications for it.  Doesn't hurt that she was treated like a final-boss-level threat, and was generally awesome.
Lambda -7.  Standard power that became awesome when applied to combat the way it was, though I was curious about the whole Claimh Solais stuff that he used.  Smart enough to delegate his plans to Augst instead of himself, and he gets bonus points for killing the Congressional Knights.  Also amused at how his Well-Intentioned Extremist ways had gone to the extent of throwing one of his officers in Illsveil for attempting to realize Power Perversion Potential. 
Gawn - DNR.  Has his awesomeness, but is not a villain.
Hugo - 5.  A badass who, regrettably, had little personality, but an awesome power.  Deserved more screentime, though he gets points for "fuck it, I quit."
Balgaine - 5.  Was just there, but he was a badass for the few moments where he showed up.  Nidhogg being just as effective in battle as it was on the cutscene, at that.  Could have done to be expanded on a bit.
Enil - 4.  Was honestly just there.  Not memorable at all, outside of how outright bloody ANNOYING Etremenanki was, and that was the dungeon, not her.
Farmel - 4.  It makes sense that, given her abilities, she mainly just hangs around Lambda and intercepts attacks.  But her design annoys me, and her fight could have honestly been better.
Tony - 6.  In that setting, this is probably as comic relief as you can get.  Works just on how truly pathetic he is.
Kresnik - DNR.  Pisses people off due to existential angst (which I can honestly understand), but not a villain.
Augst - 8.  Genre-savviness that was suitably awesome, and the powers of logic and common sense; he did originally devise a plan to have the rest of the members gang up on the PCs and take them out then and there.  Was generally enjoyable.  Honestly missed him when he died.  Too bad he was shut down by...
The Congressional Knights - 1.  Honestly.  Writing aside, they were your typical evil oligarchy.  It was nice that they did have the typical amount of combat ability any modern ruler would have, though; none.  They also killed any chances for certain others to have more screentime.
Fiore/Asia - 2.  There, and honestly both annoying and lacking anything even RESEMBLING a quirk in battle.  Culling material alongside Enil.

Wild Arms 5:

Nightburn - 4/10.  On the one end, 70s Action Hero.  On the other end, everything else.  Needed a combat gimmick.
Persephone - 4/10.  Was going to be 3/10 out of sheer hatred for the design, which screamed "OMG BOOBS" and had a stupid-looking gun, until I was reminded of the medicine incident.  That degree of callousness/jackass genie-ism is worth an extra point.  Needed a combat gimmick.
Fereydoon - 6/10.  Honestly, probably my favorite of the Sentinels, though Elvis is ranked higher overall.  Fan of the character type, and loved the armor/weapon.  Loses a point for somehow getting owned by Chuck.  Needed a combat gimmick.
Kartikeya - 4/10.  Was there, ate babies, wanted to eat the babies that Volsung was eating.  Horrible theme music, though.  Needed a combat gimmick.
Elvis - 7/10.  Best villain in the game easily, hands down.  And he's the comic relief.  Needed a more noticeable combat gimmick.
Volsung - 2/10.  His design was awesome, particularly Gram-Zamber.  The rest of it, though...ugh.  I think the true depth of his fail has already been expressed; "POSSESSED BY THE SOULS OF PEOPLE WHO FAILED TO OVERCOME RACISM".  A pity, that.  Defines "waste of plot potential."  Also, could have done to have an AI that could actually take advantage of the Double Action move in his fight to make him distinctive.
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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #179 on: August 24, 2009, 05:49:22 AM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy- 7.5/10- For some reason I loved Jeremy as a random psycho killer.  A persistent one at that.  He didn't seem to fit the Brionac mold, but he worked.
Scythe- 3/10- Emo vampire
Belial- 8/10- She was a super powered demon who just didn't care about shit other than her boyfriend.  When he died, she decides to create and destroy a world for revenge.  Loses some points for not finding a way to kill some kids despite her dimension creating ability.
Lambda- 5/10- Never got too into Lambda... kind of a bitch
Gawn- 7.5/10- Likeable enough that I was annoyed when he turned out to be bad.
Hugo- 7/10- Badass, just not Jeremy level.
Balgaine- 6/10- Less badass than Hugo
Enil- 4/10- Meh, dull
Farmel- 4/10- Was there, did her job.
Tony- 2/10- Crap
Kresnik- 2/10- Crap
Augst- 8/10- Awesome, wish his fight was tougher.
The Congressional Knights- Huh... how do I not remember these guys?

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #180 on: August 24, 2009, 09:01:45 AM »
Brionac needed no more screen time. They want to kill you and you try to kill them right back. What the fuck else motivation do you need?

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #181 on: August 24, 2009, 11:17:36 PM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy: 4/10. I don't really have too much to say about Jeremy. He mainly exists as a sympathising factor for the Brionac leadership, because they realise he is an incompetent loose cannon and punish him for it. His reappearance, though, is random and unsatisfying.
Scythe: 7/10. His exit is brilliant. The game raises him up and up and up and up only for WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO- Yeah, I love it. Certainly good enough for a decent score.
Belial: 6/10. Like Scythe, the writing that surrounds her arc is just wonderful. And yeah, she kinda sets the stage for the type of stuff you expect from Brionac.
Lambda: 6/10. Probably the score that requires the most thought. Lambda worked pretty effectiely as a generally highly sympathetic villain, but I could have been sold a bit better on his overreaction of "we need humans to evolve so that we won't be so weak!" On the other hand, an effective, believable leader... eh.
Gawn: 7/10. Gawn very rarely failed to bring a smile to my face. Funny guy, and his turn as a villain made sense, although it wasn't anything stellar writing-wise.
Hugo: 6/10. Likable chap for his minimal screentime. Just... exudes competence and being reasonable.
Balgaine: 5/10. Objectively deserves a below average score, but his design is brilliant. ROCKETMAN WITH ANTI-TANK CHAINSAW.
Enil: 2/10. Fails on levels besides just combat. Oh well.
Farmel: 5/10. No strong opinion here. Gains a point for holy crap a normal non-creepy relationship in a villain cast! Loses it for design.
Tony: 8/10. HE NEEDS WAR. And... yeah. Tony is the recurring joke villain in a dark game. His very existence serves to depress as much as it does to entertain, and he's very effective at both.
Kresnik: 1/10. Emo wanker. He wants nothing more than his sister to be happy, and what would make his sister happy is him being alive and them being together, but he is too stupid and emo to get it. Don't get me wrong, people like him exist in real life (and fail), but he's still a terrible person and his being terrible doesn't really advance the plot in any way, so he just sucks. He'd be even worse if the game played up his ANIME RIVALRY with Jude like the second opening video implies it would. That video sucks.
Augst: 7/10. Highly amusing, and the scene where you meet him in the Ciel flashback/memory scene rounds him out as a character.
The Congressional Knights: ... 6/10. They are horrible, horrible villains. But the game needed horrible villains there to make a point and to allow Brionac to lose while preserving the competence and sympathy of Augst and Lambda. So... sure, points for that.

Hauser: 2/10. TRUE PEACE IS BUILT ON THE CORPSES OF MEN and KINDNESS CHANGES NOTHING are indeed great lines, if short of the Xorn tier. Sadly as a serious character, blech. Lambda without the convincing development for how he got there. THEY KILLED HIS PUPPY? okay

Wild Arms 5:

Nightburn: 7/10. Is Hank Scorpio, and had generally good scenes with Duo and Persephone. Style, and enough substance to work. Sure.
Persephone: 5/10. Nightburn but without the style, and the lovesick bit is kinda bleh. NIGHTBURN IS THE ONLY HUMAN MORE POWERFUL THAN ME whatever, woman
Fereydoon: 6/10. He's cool. He's... actually more sympathetic than Chuck in their love triangle? Wow. His shift from kind young man with his grandmother to your masked killer was also effective.
Kartikeya: I dunno. His big scene is probably the most effective single scene in RPGs since Suikoden 5, that I've seen anyway. On the other hand he is unredeemably horrible, a baby-eater to the tenth degree. I am tempted to look up what score I gave Luca and add 1 or something. Sadly I don't remember what that is and I am lazy, so I will give him the ultimate lazy score of <b>5/10</b>.
Elvis: 6/10. Pretty amusing, but not up to the level of previous WA funny men.
Volsung: 1/10. Oh fuck off.

Wild Arms XF:

Edna: 7/10. Stupid, stupid, stupid, and you hate her a lot. But seeing what ways she can be stupid never failed to be entertaining.
Weisheit: 6/10. I agree that his last bit was unnecessary, and this hurts his score a good deal. However, beyond that, the setup is just pretty nifty. Convincingly painted as a genius manipulator (the bit where he toys with the party in C2 drives it home), but lacks the common sense to deal with the PCs when he's in sight of his goal. This would be an 8/10 if the final problem had been a trap triggered by his death instead of LOL I'M BACK GUYS, but whatever. "Tales villain" indeed, but still less stupid than Sync's revival.
Charlton: 9/10. Just used well. Charlton's ideology is ultimately sympathetic in its own way, even if wrong-headed. He's a very cool and collected opponent who gives good speeches, and smart enough that he really should have won (ENDA!!!). Has some very memorable and stylish scenes, such as the one before his last fight, and is well VAed and his underplayed emotions work well. So yeah.
Rupert: 7/10. Effective scumbag. I'd say he hangs around too long, but his exit is just brilliant. Poor guy. (Well not really because he's a freaking scumbag.)
Katrina: 8/10. I like possession cases that are done well. This one certainly is. An unexpected path for the development of a villain, but the end result is extremely effective, taking a bizarre psychological quirk and making it the foundation of an extremely nasty desire for something disastrous. It's not even "evil" and it's very unique. Plus style/music/etc., but I could have been saying the latter for most of these guys.
Eisen: 4/10. All these points for his scenes with Levin, which were actually pretty effective. Well, that and his ability to block the villains without opposing them. Just ugh to the stunt he pulls in Chapter 4. No. No, no, no.
Chelle: 3/10. Nasty opponent but I don't really give points for that. Nor am I inclined to give points for the jokes.
Piedras: 2/10. I WILL BUILD MY KINGDOM ON YOUR CORPSES. His ideology is painfully stupid.

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Nephrite

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #182 on: August 25, 2009, 02:56:12 AM »
As a warning, I did not like Brionac very much.

Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy: 4/10 - GRR I'LL GET YOU
Scythe: 2/10 uh... yeah, whatever.
Belial: 2/10 Could have been more interesting? I dunno.
Lambda: 3/10 ...really didn't find him effective.
Gawn 1/10 - I AM AN ADULT AND YOU ARE CHILDREN I MUST LAMENT MYSELF
Hugo - 3/10 TIME COMPRESSION
Balgaine - 2/10 the quiet one
Enil - uhh... which one was she again? The shadow one? Yeah, whatever. 1/10
Farmel: I WILL DO WHATEVER I CAN FOR YOU LAMBDA 2/10
Tony: 4/10 Made me laugh once or twice.
Kresnik: 2/10 Generic.
Augst: Eh, 5/10
The Congressional Knights: DNR, fuck them

SnowFire

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #183 on: August 25, 2009, 05:24:38 AM »
Man, WA4's villainy admittedly had some style, just why couldn't all the evil plans in the game be something other than batshit insane?  I hold this most against Lambda, I suppose.  If I'd been in charge of writing the WA4 villainous motivations, I'd probably have played the "echoes of the old war" angle harder - fits with Jeremy's comments about the war not really being over that are then dropped.  Jude & Yulie are both sorta detritus from the Global Union anyway, and a policy of hunting down these crazy old bioweapons so that the world can return to peace would be totally understandable.  (Though...  the timing on Yulie's plot always kinda confused me.  It was a Global Union facility?  But she was there only 5 years ago or so, and the war was over by then, right?  But if it was, and the facility was reopened by the Knights...  why'd they close it?  Then change their mind and go off to collect her again?  Meh, RPG timing.)

Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy - 5/10 Decent foil.  Mutated return was strictly a plot device.
Scythe - 8/10 Another amusing pathetic character.  All that build-up and he's kinda a lamer.  I'm fine with that.
Belial - 7/10 Hey, you're killing people.  Others may have loved said people, and will be pissed when you do this.  I think this needs to be done more - too many faceless, loved ones-less baddies out there.
Lambda - 3/10 Why he gets points at all: Realizing that the Knights are lamers and need to die, generally impressed at his devotion to Brionac and (presumably) democratic ideals "before."
Why he fails it up: Wait, a passing comment from the Congressional Knights about humanity being too primitive to survive and needing to evolve...  people whom you have correctly figured out are insane...  causes you to decide that humanity needs to evolve past war...  by starting a global catastrophe?!  That the way to stop war is to blow the world up?!  FAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL.  For a villain who's clearly supposed to be a sympathetic, "tragic ideal vision" kind of guy, this is just too stupid.  This is dumber than Krelian's "so therefore there is no God so therefore I will create God with my own hands and blow shit up."  Assuming he did buy the line about humanity needing to evolve hook, line, and sinker...  couldn't he have done so in a way that vaguely made sense?
Gawn - 5/10 Honestly don't hate him, but Hauser being not really Hauser kinda threw away the only interesting thing in his plot, his relationship to his old rival.  He claims he was friends, or wanted to be...  and....  uh yeah we don't find out anything more.
Hugo - 6/10 Henchman, worked.
Balgaine - 5/10 - Henchman, kinda ridiculous.
Enil - 5/10 - Henchman.
Farmel - 4/10 - Henchman.  Had more screentime than the above 3 yet didn't do anything with it, so docked a point.
Tony - 7/10 - Another fun, persistent rival.  Tony also was the "brutish soldiers blow shit up" side of the plot for WA4 to thematically work, so very much a needed part of the story.
Kresnik - DNR?  5/10 if ranked I guess.  Certainly much less of a villain than Hauser, never does anything evil, never really effectively opposes the party.  The charitable interpretation of Kresnik is that his depression is mostly a side-effect of being a drug addict, and I liked his plot in so far as it was him overcoming his issues to accomplish something anyway.  On the downside, him apparently voluntarily falling to his doom, and the stupid hint he may have survived anyway in the ending need to go die.
Augst - 6/10 Amusing in his failed humor.  Volunteering for the stupid test-some-nanomachine plan was a blatant excuse for a boss fight that didn't make tons of sense, but whatever.
The Congressional Knights - 5/10 - They are docked fewer points for their stupid insane plan due to WA4 not elevating it to the big problem.  Agree with DHE that they also provide a needed plot device to explain why Brionac didn't all surround Our Heroes and recapture Yulie immediately.  As people for Brionac to bounce off of, they're fine, but also with a strong scent of JAPAN.  Look, Japan, believe it or not but most democracies are not secretly controlled by the same 6 power-hungry people, even if yours kind of was for awhile.
Fiore & Asia: 2/10 - The weak link of Brionac indeed.
Hauser - 2/10 - TRUE PEACE IS BUILT ON A PILE OF CORPSES what?  Okay, they do say that Hauser died / changed that day when he stopped the reactor, buuuuuut they want to have their cake and eat it too, as he's clearly supposed to be "Hauser" at other times as well.  Anyway, whatever Hauser is now, he apparently thinks that Lambda's idea is cool and is willing to go Gene Driver up the Divine Weapon to achieve true peace, so fail.  Hauser also loses points for throwing away a more interesting point WA4 lightly touched on, that the difference between Class A war criminals and war heroes is who won.  Making this insane not-really-Hauser, and not really raising the issue again by having most of Illsveil Prison be mutated monsters rather than imprisoned Global Union types, throws the good plot away.

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #184 on: August 28, 2009, 10:39:37 AM »
Hauser's best moment is making Jude have a complete mental breakdown and turning him in to a mountain hermit, I think.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #185 on: August 28, 2009, 03:04:44 PM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy - 3 - Rar I am persistent.  Yeah...not much.  Much better after his 2nd fight...coming back didn't do much.
Scythe - 5 - I find a lot of the villains in WA4 were too, too, short-lived.  Scythe has a advantage in at least being kind of funny and initially threatening.
Belial - 4 - Threatening...but I really don't find her to be a good villain - she would have murdered anyone who killed Scythe, not just the party.  Bleh, I find her...a little overrated in villainness...now, strong, yes, but...
Lambda - 5 - Kind of retarded near the end, but overall ok to start.
Gawn - 2 - I...yeah.  Don't mind him as a character, but as a villain...he's really shitty.
Hugo - 5 - Belial, but...seemed overall more villainy?
Balgaine - 5 - Kind of like Scythe, many cool points.
Enil - 2 - EVIL IN YOUR HEART!!!  If there's ever a sequel, she can be the main villain!
Farmel - 1 - Eh...bleh.  Slept with Lambda is about it.
Tony - 5 - At least dedicated to his job, which was...different.  He was just someone who couldn't let go.  Still...not an amazing villain.
Kresnik - N/A - Not villain.
Augst - 1 - Not...a great villain.
The Congressional Knights - 3 - Just not present enough.

Wild Arms 5:

Nightburn - 5 - His visage in Dean's mind and then turn were villainous.  On the other hand, that's only half the game he was a villain, so...
Persephone - 1 -
Fereydoon - 1 -
Kartikeya - 8 - All the non-Kartikeya Sentinels didn't feel like villains in the least.  Kartikeya has the awesome Greg background and final fight.  He IS threatening. 
Elvis - 1 -
Volsung - N/A - IT IS EVIL SPIRITS THAT ARE VILLAINS NOT HIM

Wild Arms XF:

Edna - 7 - Felt villainous towards everyone.  The best villains in this series are in XF, so be prepared for decent scores now!
Weisheit - 9 - Excellent.  He felt really threatening, especially, as a mastermind to everything.  On the other hand, his coming back I felt worked well - he was supposed to be hard to kill, and it made his end that much more...anticlimatic.  Just...think there could be more?  I'm trying to think of what it could have done better.
Charlton - 9 - Yeah, been said. 
Rupert - 4 - Eh, thief.  Not much.
Katrina - N/A - I...don't see her as much of a villain, do I?  I don't remember the plot around her much - I know she got possessed at the end.  Eh.
Eisen - N/A - Not much of a villain.
Chelle - 5 - Nevermind the decent scores!
Piedras - 4 - Ditto.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 09:46:11 PM by OblivionKnight »
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #186 on: August 28, 2009, 09:21:18 PM »
I'm updating this over the weekend. Vote now!
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Meeplelard

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #187 on: August 28, 2009, 09:41:40 PM »
Wild Arms 4:

Jeremy: 6/10.  worked well enough for what he was, I guess; just what he was wasn't a lot.
Scythe: 6/10.  Meh with a point for an awesome death.
Belial: 4/10.  Felt tacted on and forced, honestly, just to make the game longer for an extra dungeon and boss fight.
Lambda: 7/10.  Solid enough.
Gawn: 7.5/10.  Worked well from the double agent thing, and gets half a point for FALCON MISSILE PUNCH!
Hugo: 4/10. The coolest part about him...is something that Raquel gets full credit for, whoops!
Balgaine: 4.5/10.  Bland, but gets half a point for ANTI TANK CHAINSAW.
Enil: 3/10. She had...a character...at all?  I honestly don't remember! She felt like "Yet another member of Brionac who is just there for a gimmick boss fight."
Farmel: 5/10.  I understand what they were trying for, but felt nothing for her.
Tony: 7/10.  Tony.
Kresnik: 2/10.  Fail.
Augst: 5/10.  Apathy.
The Congressional Knights: 6/10.  Gets a point for being major pricks and getting completely owned by Lambda later, as exactly what you want. 
Hauser: 2/10. Uh, yeah, felt forced and sucked at what he did.


Wild Arms 5:

Nightburn: 7/10.  Above average, with a point for extra cheese.
Persephone: 5/10.  "Token Female Of the Crew of 4" is what she felt like, though at least she wasn't offensive.
Fereydoon: 8/10.  Actually thought he was a well done anti-villain.
Kartikeya: 4/10.  Kefka Blight.  He's genuinely threatening, I guess, but fuck if he doesn't fail as a character in all ways, lacking Luca Blight's plot-device excuse reason for existing (if that makes sense), or Kefka's general zaniness (as well as doing like nothing better than Kefka, and Kefka's a freaking SNES villain...)
Elvis: 6/10.  Silly, but unfortunately, his antics is all he has...though, I do give a nod for the fact that they make your fights with him genuinely consistent with his personality; far more believable that he was just going over the top "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO KAROL? YOU WILL PAY!" response followed by a "Fine! Prove you can be independent!" thing deserves a nod since it wasn't forcing a "I know we have nothing against each other, but I must fight, CAUSE I PROMISED!" idiocy that tehse kinds of characters always fall into (and Fereydoon already did that, except in his case, a good aprt of Fereydoon's character is the unwavering loyalty factor...)
Volsung: 1/10.  Fail.  An interesting concept but egads was it pulled off horribly.  You're suppose to sympathize with him...based on the last like hour of his screen time?  His motives are suppose to be understandable...except they're 100% at the fault of fucking Zeromus, who had literally no reason to exist in this game, and...ugh.  One of the best examples of wasted potential, and atrocious writing.

Wild Arms XF:

Edna: 7/10. I hate her...but that's sort of the point, so yeah, worked for what she was.
Weisheit: 5/10.  Would be higher if he died a chapter earlier, rather than pulling a bullshit "but I'm not dead yet!" nonsense, so I'm docking a point.
Charlton: 6/10.  Gets a point for being a genuinely intelligent and rational villain, but the character just isn't there, I felt.
Rupert: 7.5/10.  An effective scoundrel.  The game doesn't even try to play him up as having any redeeming qualities, and his general attitude was a nice contrast to all the upright proper nobles he was with.
Katrina: 8/10.  Yeah, playing the whole "Can't feel fear" thing into an actual villain trait and making it work was actually kind of neat, and she certainly felt rather creepy at times.  See, Volsung, you CAN get possessed and STILL be effective!  Possession isn't always an excuse to fail, and Katrina proves it.
Eisen: 3/10.  Lawful stupid.  I just wanted to punch him several times.
Chelle: 4/10.  She annoyed me pretty much every time she appeared; oh look, Ragnar's rival! Uh, yeah, whatever, we don't need the same fucking scene every time you appear between the two.
Piedras: 3/10.  Felt absolutely pointless; I seriously don't know why they didn't just say "Chelle is the leader", but forced this guy in and just made Chelle his bitch.  It was like he was there to be a pure plot device and...ugh.

[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #188 on: August 29, 2009, 12:25:42 AM »
Jeremy- 2/10
Scythe- 5/10
Belial- 7/10
Lambda- 2/10
Gawn- 1/10
Balgaine- 8/10
Enil- ??
Farmel- 1/10
Tony- 8/10
Kresnik- 3/10
Augst- 5/10
The Congressional Knights- 5/10
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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #189 on: August 29, 2009, 08:39:58 PM »
Updating tomorrow some time! Get to it!
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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #190 on: August 31, 2009, 06:49:58 AM »
Okay it's closed! Results coming in 1 to 24 hours depending on how fast I get through these.
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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #191 on: September 01, 2009, 05:48:31 AM »
Update should be up by tomorrow night with luck, personal crap happened.
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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #192 on: September 03, 2009, 06:36:31 AM »
Sorry about the log delay, life happened. Thanks to Bardiche for helping this along. Results!

Jeremy: 4.24, 19 rankers.
Scythe:  4.79, 19 rankers.
Belial: 6.26, 19 rankers.
Lambda: 4.42, 18 rankers.
Gawn: 3.37,  16 rankers. (3 DNR)
Hugo: 4.68, 17 rankers.
Balgaine: 4.97, 17 rankers. (1 DNR)
Enil: 2.68, 16 rankers. (1 DNR)
Farmel: 3.71, 19 rankers.
Tony: 4.32, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
Augst: 6.47, 19 rankers.
Congressional Knights: 2.47, 16 rankers. (2 DNR)

Nightburn: 4.07, 15 rankers.
Persephone: 3.80, 15 rankers.
Fereydoon: 4.00, 15 rankers.
Kartikeya: 4.73, 15 rankers.
Elvis: 5.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)

Edna: 6.82, 11 rankers.
Weisheit: 4.91, 11 rankers.
Charlton: 7.82, 11 rankers.
Rupert: 6.86, 11 rankers.
Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
Eisen: 3.25, 8 rankers. (1 DNR)
Chelle: 4.20, 10 rankers.
Piedras: 2.90, 10 rankers.

More coming in the next post!
* Infinite_Ko_Loop is now known as Ko-CidisnotaPrincess
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<CmdrKing> I know.  Cid would makea  great princess.

Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #193 on: September 03, 2009, 06:53:33 AM »
Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
5. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
6. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
7. Reno(FF7):  7.21, 21 rankers.
8. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
9. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
10. Algus(FFT): 6.90, 15 rankers.

Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
4. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
5. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
6. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
7. Congressional Knights: 2.47, 16 rankers. (2 DNR)
8t. Milon(FF4): 2.60, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
8t. Lani(FF9): 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
10. Judecca(WA2): 2.64, 17 rankers.

The Generic Dudes:

Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)

BARF!:

Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Fiore and Asia: (2.00, 3 votes.)
Hauser: (2.50, 4 votes.)
WA5 Writers: (10.00, 2 votes.)
Ice Queen Avril: (8.00, 1 vote.)

Games ranked:

FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF

Well, that's the end of the WA series. It produced both highs(Irving) and dreadful lows(Kresnik, Volsung). With my inner fanboy pleased by this turn of events, let's move along to another old RPG series, this one with it's roots on the SNES: Lufia! Rank each Sinistral from the game in question only. Yes, this is kind of an off week and a short one. Life happens.

Lufia 1:

Nazeby
Gades
Amon
Erim
Daos

Lufia 2:

Gades
Idura
Amon
Erim
Daos

Lufia 3:

Gades
Amon
Erim
Daos

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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #194 on: September 03, 2009, 06:58:55 AM »
Lufia 1:

Nazeby: 2/10. Shows up, gets hit, dies.
Gades: 3/10. A few points for style and lapsing into caveman speak in Sheran.
Amon: 4/10. Cool armor design.
Erim: 6/10. I consider Lufia part of her and this raises her on up to a respectable score. Lufia wasn't a bad character at all.
Daos: 2.5/10. Eh. Bad guy.

Lufia 2:

Gades: 4/10. Comes across as more of a threat and more of an asshole.
Idura: 6/10. Has some style and tries his best. Then again, when your best doesn't work on Dekar...<_<
Amon: 3/10. Threat-y. Sinistrals have always been good at wiping out unvisited villages.
Erim: 8/10. Again, Iris is Erim and vice versa. Iris' role throughout the game, while easy enough to guess, kept things going and laid the seeds for the birth of Lufia in the future.
Daos: 4/10. HOOCHES.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #195 on: September 03, 2009, 07:02:00 AM »
Disclaimer: Worthless villain cast is worthless.

Lufia 1:
Nazeby - DNR (1/10).  Scrub who gets something like one scene total.
Gades - He.  Is.  EVIL.  1/10, NEXT.
Amon - Did nothing worth noting. 1/10.
Erim - Uninteresting.  1/10.
Daos - Did nothing worth noting.  1/10

Lufia 2:

Gades - Even less personality than the first time around.  WINNAR.  1/10
Idura - Exists to be owned by Dekar.  1/10
Amon - Uninteresting.  1/10.
Erim - ...Yeah I'm not even going to pretend that what they did here was worthwhile.  1/10
Daos - Uninteresting.  1/10

Lufia 3:

Gades - Frue destruction.  Also completely lame.  1/10.
Amon - Meh.  1/10.
Erim - ...No.  1/10
Daos - Blah blah evil blah blah.  1/10.

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #196 on: September 03, 2009, 07:15:57 AM »
Lufia 1:

Nazeby: 1/10
Gades: 7/10
Amon: 1/10
Erim: 5/10
Daos: 2/10

Lufia 2:

Gades: 7/10 Frue destruction
Idura: 5/10
Amon: 1/10
Erim: 7/10
Daos: 1/10
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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #197 on: September 03, 2009, 07:40:43 AM »
Grah to Hauser not getting properly ranked. Especially considering some of the other scrubs that were included from the other games...

Lufia 1:
Nazeby: DNR
Gades: 5, funny enough, threatening enough... feels a lot like Belselk. Played his part well enough for this.
Amon: 3 - The scrub of the Sinistrals, really. His fight might be memorable, but the circumstances behind it, as well as anything to do with his personality are lacking at best. Mostly felt like he was there so that the Sinistrals had four members.
Erim: 7. Gets this high for being one of the earliest examples of 'Tomato in the Mirror' in RPGs... or indeed, video games in general. For once, the main heroine's secret doesn't turn out to be the 'world-saving awesome goddess powers'. May have started the trend of blue-haired 'secretly-a-goddess' main heroines, though... Eh, 7 works since Lufia herself was decent.
Daos: 4 - Also barely there, but felt threatening and instigates the whole Sinistral Fusion thing...

Lufia 2
Disclaimer: The first three Lufia games are all the same plot with slightly different characters... And the Villains are all literally the same... >.>;;
Gades: 5 - Sinistral of Destruction! Really, seriously, truly.
Idura: 6 - More development than all non-Erim Sinistrals. That's sad. But hey, Dekar rival!
Amon: 3 - Sinistral of... what was it this time? Chaos? Famine? War?
Erim: 8 - Because I liked Iris more than Lufia, one more point.
Daos: 4 - Same old, same old
Arek: 2 - He is saved from being a 1 by the sole grace of never doing anything offensive. Of course, he never does -anything- besides ask Erim some questions in the prologue... Who IS this guy?! And why did he have to inspire a million Lufia fanfics?

Lufia 3
Gades: 5
Amon: 4, he did slightly more here.
Erim: 6, This plot twist is getting old... Seena was even a fairly amusing female lead, but damn, if you've used this plot twist on your audience twice already, you can afford to at least reveal it from the beginning to the player and explore some other aspects of it...
Daos: 4
Egg Dragon: 10, pimptastic.


Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #198 on: September 03, 2009, 08:59:52 AM »
Lufia 2:

Gades: 2/10. Fails at being remotely interesting or even being a threat.
Idura: 3/10. Points for persistence?
Amon: 2/10. Fails at being remotely interesting or even being a threat.
Erim: 5/10. At least her being Iris was kinda cool, but her bipolarity wasn't really explored.
Daos: 2/10. Fails at being remotely interesting or... yeah, whatever.

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Tonfa

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #199 on: September 03, 2009, 09:10:21 AM »
Lufia 1:

Nazeby: DNR (2) What. Whoever this is, they don't deserve anything.
Gades: 2. I don't remember if you even meet any of these scrubs outside the final dungeon.
Amon: 2. I don't remember if you even meet any of these scrubs outside the final dungeon.
Erim: 5. Cool twist I guess, but they ultimately did not much with it.
Daos: 2. I don't remember if you even meet any of these scrubs outside the final dungeon.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!